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No pics, too depressing...... pinhead made a mess anarchy

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We all know what totally incompetent jackasses the prior owners of our boats are

<_<

I'm not sure if this goddam pinhead was a prior owner or the boat factory worker(s)..... it's a 2000 so it's not old enough to acquire scabs over many generations of half-ass work.

Long story made short- engine room vent grille & drain box, cut thru balsa core topsides with no edge put on the balsa, putzed together with huge gobs of 3 different kinds of caulk, some thin sheet metal (!?!?!!!), and really long self-tapping screws thru it all (from several directions) to make sure it leaks.

The plastic vent scoop has degraded and cracked so I was attempting to replace it without a major rebuild project. Hah!

Now I'm tempted to just go get a logo placard from a local sign company, and cover the whole thing up. These vents are insignificant to the engine room ventilation, and it will allow me to scrape off (and buff the spots out) the almost-twenty-year-old builder's decal on the pilothouse side. I will at least fill the exposed edge of balsa core (it's wet but not black mush), but then I can ignore the fucking mess some pinhead left for me to fix.

Gentlemen, thank you for allowing me to vent...... I hope you all have a good weekend!

FB- Doug

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one of my main goals as a boat owner is to never have someone say "wtf did that stupid idiot do?". The worst was the time i sealed a flashlight inside of the 29er... I contemplated epoxying it in place through the drain plug, but ultimately spent another eight hours removing and reinstalling the port scupper. Fucking teenagers... 

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Had a buddy that worked in a shop that used soda bottles for flotation. 

Owner wanted an extra fuel tank.

Was there...

Cut the hole, lifted the cockpit sole.

Reaches in and says...  "Hey this ones mine, last one I threw in!"

 

 

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I’ve worked on boats that had poorly done/nonexistent core sealant from the factory. I’ve repaired crazy shit done by boatyards. I’ve watched yard help do what I consider to be half-assed work; yard is reputable.

In fact, I’ve sworn I’ll never allow a yard near my boat for that reason. Can’t always blame the PO. Maybe my standards are just high. 

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9 hours ago, Max Rockatansky said:

I’ve worked on boats that had poorly done/nonexistent core sealant from the factory. I’ve repaired crazy shit done by boatyards. I’ve watched yard help do what I consider to be half-assed work; yard is reputable.

In fact, I’ve sworn I’ll never allow a yard near my boat for that reason. Can’t always blame the PO. Maybe my standards are just high. 

One of the problems with needing to get paid for a job, it's easy to get worn down by the customers who just want it done now don't want to educate themselves, to be educated or to pay for someone who does understand to take the extra bit of time to do it right.   Often justified with "Well I won't own the boat that long" or, "I just need it for this season, we'll do it right next year" or "the other shop "quoted x amount fewer hours(in one case I got to see the cheaper job on a powerboat transom, they literally excavated the core, and slapped in scrap plywood, all different grades and types, using offcuts bedded in cheap filler to build up the thickness, then troweled it over and glassed it wet, then just ground the edge of the deck to match the new transom shape.  The biggest piece was maybe 6"x5".     Guess how well that lasted with a 300 hp outboard?   Then they wanted a break on the original price(from when you could actually clean it out easily, and the transom glass wasn't fractured) because they'd already paid for the job once...

So some yards start to do what the market is demanding, even when they'd rather do it right.

 

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I grok that the market demands poor craftsmanship, but individual integrity should override that

I have worked with quality craftsmen... and oddly enough, they are super busy and in the position to refuse work (!) in what is a competitive market. People who are willing to pay for quality are loyal. 

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44 minutes ago, Max Rockatansky said:

I grok that the market demands poor craftsmanship, but individual integrity should override that

I have worked with quality craftsmen... and oddly enough, they are super busy and in the position to refuse work (!) in what is a competitive market. People who are willing to pay for quality are loyal. 

It's amazing that anybody ever actually makes a profit, the way these things go.

I know some top quality craftsmen also, and they do seem to keep busy. A lot of the skill goes into figuring out an effective way to accomplish the job, and get an amazing amount done in a given period of time.... and not have to do stuff over and over (what I generally end up doing, but nobody's paying me).

However, I -would- like to meet and have a chat with the guy who thought it was a good idea to mix up 2 or 3 different kinds of caulk into a slurry with loose blobs of styrofoam ("it's like using West resin & fillers, only cheaper and we have lots of it on the shelf") then putting a sheet metal flange around it....... I hope he cut the fuck of himself bending it to shape.

In a just world, guys who did work like this would wake up one morning with hooves instead of hands.

 

14 hours ago, jgbrown said:

One of the problems with needing to get paid for a job, it's easy to get worn down by the customers who just want it done now don't want to educate themselves, to be educated or to pay for someone who does understand to take the extra bit of time to do it right.   Often justified with "Well I won't own the boat that long" or, "I just need it for this season, we'll do it right next year" or "the other shop "quoted x amount fewer hours(in one case I got to see the cheaper job on a powerboat transom, they literally excavated the core, and slapped in scrap plywood, all different grades and types, using offcuts bedded in cheap filler to build up the thickness, then troweled it over and glassed it wet, then just ground the edge of the deck to match the new transom shape.  The biggest piece was maybe 6"x5".     Guess how well that lasted with a 300 hp outboard?   Then they wanted a break on the original price(from when you could actually clean it out easily, and the transom glass wasn't fractured) because they'd already paid for the job once...

So some yards start to do what the market is demanding, even when they'd rather do it right.

 

You gotta live to fight again another day, first

It's true that a lot of boat owners don't know and don't really care. For example, our community has gotten together a bunch of waterfront owners to carry out a dredging project. I am lucky enough to have a deep water (for around here) slip, but there are shallow spots and I'd like an inner slip.... a bunch of people wanted to join and expressed anger that the water around here is too shallow for their boats.... WTF was God thinking, didn't He know we need 7~8' deep water at a minimum where we want to sail??  .... and then also expressed outrage at what it was going to cost, even with shared common cots. Several declared they were quite sure they could get it done cheaper. Haven't heard back from them

FB- Doug

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Best one I've heard of: a friend of mine was working for a time as a "panel beater" in Oz. That means body shop repair. Car comes in with a minor wreck. They open up the fender and find, behind the passenger kick panel, a nut hanging on a string, with a note attached that says, "You finally found me!". Show it to the owner and he says, yes, there has been a knocking sound in the car for years, many mechanics had tried to diagnose it and they never could. They think probably someone at the factory.

I agree that I want the next owner to say, "Wow, they didn't cut any corners on this one!". Even if it's deeply buried work. 

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29 minutes ago, DDW said:

Best one I've heard of: a friend of mine was working for a time as a "panel beater" in Oz. That means body shop repair. Car comes in with a minor wreck. They open up the fender and find, behind the passenger kick panel, a nut hanging on a string, with a note attached that says, "You finally found me!". Show it to the owner and he says, yes, there has been a knocking sound in the car for years, many mechanics had tried to diagnose it and they never could. They think probably someone at the factory.

I agree that I want the next owner to say, "Wow, they didn't cut any corners on this one!". Even if it's deeply buried work. 

This reminded me of the story I heard about Brian Bosworth - the big Seahawks bust from years ago.  I Wasn't sure if my memory was playing tricks on me so I Googled Brian Bosworth, and here is an extract from a Wiki article on  him:

...Bosworth was quoted in Sports Illustrated magazine's 1986 fall football issue as saying that at a summer job at GM's Oklahoma City plant, co-workers taught him how to insert the bolts in hard-to-reach places so they would rattle."If you own a Celebrity or Century made in 1985 in Oklahoma City, that car is (messed up) if I had anything to do with it," the 6-foot-2, 240-pound linebacker told the magazine. He said each bolt carried a note that said: "Aha! You found me!" Bosworth told the magazine: "I love the thought of people going absolutely crazy, saying "Where is that ... rattle coming from?"' Some of Bosworth's former co-workers who read the story wrote letters to Bosworth and to university officials at the Norman campus.[12] Bosworth reportedly retracted the statement, although it was also reported that he denied the retraction.[13]...

And you wonder why American built cars were such crap during that period.

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Not just American cars.

I had some rot in the rocker panel on my first Porsche. When they opened it up they found a shop rag - soaking wet naturally. It was from the factory.

A friend found a pop can in a rocker panel once - can't remember what the car was.

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47 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Not just American cars.

I had some rot in the rocker panel on my first Porsche. When they opened it up they found a shop rag - soaking wet naturally. It was from the factory.

A friend found a pop can in a rocker panel once - can't remember what the car was.

Working in a factory is a mind-numbing dehumanizing experience.... I bet a majority of factory workers carry out some kind of prank on a future owner at some point, probably only a small number do it regularly.

Can't say I really blame them, I just expect it to be different with BOATS!

FB- Doug

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I was involved in a clone type computer company that attempted to manufacture using temp labor in Texas. Often you would start the day with one crew, then half of them would be new after lunch. Anyway we had a complaint from a customer that there was something wrong with his floppy disk drive. It had a piece of individually wrapped American Cheese stuffed in it, like a floppy disk. Probably should have charged them extra for that. 

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Manufacture sophisticated electronics using temps.

Genius!

I trust they went broke?

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3 hours ago, DDW said:

I was involved in a clone type computer company that attempted to manufacture using temp labor in Texas. Often you would start the day with one crew, then half of them would be new after lunch. Anyway we had a complaint from a customer that there was something wrong with his floppy disk drive. It had a piece of individually wrapped American Cheese stuffed in it, like a floppy disk. Probably should have charged them extra for that. 

Hey, if it was wrapped then what's the problem? Keeps those heads from hitting anything hard during shipping. 

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Manufacture sophisticated electronics using temps.

Genius!

I trust they went broke?

It wasn't my idea, I was running engineering, not manufacturing. We did not specify the cheese. Company got bought for $100M. 

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Peter Sellers (Goon Show) had a rattle in his Rolls Royce boot/trunk. He went around to Spike Milligan one night to get him to climb in the boot/trunk with chalk to mark where the rattle was coming from. The cop pulled them over at midnight having seen the Rolls repeatedly mounting the footpath/pavement (to trigger the rattle) and opened the boot to find a pyjama’d Milligan.

“Oh it’s you, sir. Very well, carry on.”

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12 hours ago, DDW said:

It wasn't my idea, I was running engineering, not manufacturing. We did not specify the cheese. Company got bought for $100M. 

I’m not sure that stuff counts as cheese. $100M is tho!

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Old Makos have random shit in the foam pours they did for tanks and flotation. Rags, tshirts, someone found a screwdriver once. Rigging tubes to nowhere. All kinds of random things.

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23 hours ago, DDW said:

Best one I've heard of: a friend of mine was working for a time as a "panel beater" in Oz. That means body shop repair. Car comes in with a minor wreck. They open up the fender and find, behind the passenger kick panel, a nut hanging on a string, with a note attached that says, "You finally found me!". Show it to the owner and he says, yes, there has been a knocking sound in the car for years, many mechanics had tried to diagnose it and they never could. They think probably someone at the factory.

I agree that I want the next owner to say, "Wow, they didn't cut any corners on this one!". Even if it's deeply buried work. 

I think I would have that well documented etc  and a lawyer and fuck up the auto maker for cruel and unusal punishment.. 

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I struggle with 'tradesmen' which is why I end up doing everything myself. This situation is fine with the boat as there is no real deadline and I enjoy working on it. However there are times with my truck where I have had people work on it, and paid for it, and have had to do it myself afterwards. Relatively simple stuff like a new exhaust section (it was made hard against a crossmember) and brake bleeding (you know you need a computer for this right? No, you were just doing it wrong, well do it properly for you). Twice, two different places. 

Now I just research and do shit myself. 

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39 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

I struggle with 'tradesmen' which is why I end up doing everything myself. This situation is fine with the boat as there is no real deadline and I enjoy working on it. However there are times with my truck where I have had people work on it, and paid for it, and have had to do it myself afterwards. Relatively simple stuff like a new exhaust section (it was made hard against a crossmember) and brake bleeding (you know you need a computer for this right? No, you were just doing it wrong, well do it properly for you). Twice, two different places. 

Now I just research and do shit myself. 

I feel your pain.

But there's an old saying, if you want anything done right.........

OTOH I don't have enough time to keep up with all the maintenance I need done on home & toys; and so try to hire it out to people who are at least competent and honest. Have found a few, luckily........ actually I think luck doesn't have much to do with it, other than fate's coin toss of having them in your town in the first place. Ask questions, observe, look over the shoulder (unobtrusively), I am never shy about asking stupid questions to find out if the person knows fuck-all about what they're doing. A lot of times, people who normally half-ass jobs will do a good job if you show them you appreciate their talent.

I had a lot of mechanics helpers like that, coddle them and they perk right up. OTOH I put my foot right up the noses of a few, with the result that I had to carry twice as many toolboxes back to the truck............. live and learn

-DSK

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Poor work by tradespeople is legendary but for the most part (like about 90%) most professionals do good work because business is based on trust. But if you underpay the common worker they have a way of getting their own back, cant imagine the petty mindset that has no pride in workmanship and would sabotage a new car though. 

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I've not found that 90% do good work. About 40% do acceptable work. 10% do good work. 2% do fine work. Boats, houses, cars, all about the same. I've also found little relationship between price and quality. Many customers do not know the difference, or are willing to live with it, which is how many businesses survive. 

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On 5/21/2018 at 9:58 PM, DDW said:

It wasn't my idea, I was running engineering, not manufacturing. We did not specify the cheese. Company got bought for $100M. 

Winning!

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I've got a rant. Even worse than the POs who miserably butchered a repair are the ones who do nothing about it in the first place.

I picked up a '79 O'Day 19 off a summer camp for a set of religious kids. It was cheap, and rightly so. Looks like someone failed to keep the cockpit to transom drain clear. Water froze and cracked the drain on both ends. Hose in between is now nowhere to be found outside the bilge.

Hull now filled up with water and ice. Looks to be the reason the trailer bent. Port bunk wasn't flat against the hull, so there's a good four inch crack on the hull where the forward bunk support sat.

Water passed through the crack in the transom drain, soaked and rotted the rudder backing.

But hey, the boat was cheap and it's a perfect opportunity to get real good at fiberglass repair. Boat ain't worth paying someone to do it, so if it's done wrong, it's my own fault.

All it would've taken was checking the drain...

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^^^I hear you on that one.  I went at looked at a boat that popped up on the local CL for a decent price.  Go to look at the boat and the whole cabin sole is rotted out, half the lines are shot with fraying ends and covers torn/missing, soft spots on the deck, etc.  I know it was an older ('80's vintage T10) boat, but stuff like that doesn't happen over night.  Just pure neglect on the part of the owner.  And the dude still races the boat.  I guess what is acceptable to some people is not to others.  But man, I would be embarrassed if someone came to look at a boat I had for sale and it was in that shape, unless I was selling it for scrap or scrap prices.

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I worked with a very talented cabinetmaker/joiner at a yacht repair yard that catered mainly to big sportfishermen. He was originally from England and had been a student at the very prestigious Royal Academy of Art in London and had done a lot of interiors for the London apartments that the Russian oligarchs were buying up and restoring. He and his partner had even gotten an end table commission for one of the Royal Family and they put all their skills into that project in hopes of achieving the 'purveyor to the Crown' bragging rights.

Image result for purveyor to the royal household

The final coats of lacquer were going on when they were got the news that their application for a 'royal warrant' had been denied. My friend said that he was quite upset but as he started spraying the "n"th coat of clear finish his partner walked over and motioned for him to stop after the 'tack coat' and reached down in his trousers and plucked out a fresh pubic hair which he then carefully placed and tamped flat right in the middle of the table top. He then gave the thumbs up to continue with the application of a full wet coat of lacquer.  They carefully wet sanded and after a couple more coats the fine piece of furniture was delivered with the signature pube just barely visible. 

    Good thing he wasn't a chef!

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On 5/21/2018 at 12:25 PM, SloopJonB said:

Not just American cars.

A friend found a pop can in a rocker panel once - can't remember what the car was.

If it was a Triumph (actually, most British cars) it was probably put there because the rocker panel had rotted out ...,

I once had a TR5 (250 in US) that had a bit of oak in the rocker.  On further inspection, it had been sistered in to reinforce the rusted frame member.

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