Alan H

Piper OD .. dayboat

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12 minutes ago, Fleetwood said:

We're here to help!

Speak for yourself. I'm all about impeding.

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3 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Speak for yourself. I'm all about impeding.

My free advice is worth every penny you paid for it............

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Great news! The renovation & re-fit season is upon us. Looking forward to the pics!

 

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Finding a welder to put the trailer to rights is becoming problematic... also, it rained up there. The whole thing will sink another half inch into the ground...

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52 minutes ago, Alan H said:

Finding a welder to put the trailer to rights is becoming problematic... also, it rained up there. The whole thing will sink another half inch into the ground...

Wait for more rain and surf it down.

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On 11/24/2018 at 9:45 PM, Alan H said:

Finding a welder to put the trailer to rights is becoming problematic... also, it rained up there. The whole thing will sink another half inch into the 

 Is there 220 electric service near the trailer, or within a safe towing distance.

 

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There's 110 and 220 at the house, probably 100 feet away +/-.

A welder has been located, can do the job $110 an hour, I provide the materials, but obviously can't do it in the rain or within a few hours after it rains. So I might have to wait a week, it's supposed to pour up there this weekend.

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Trailer is fixed!  See pics for what was left of one of the main trailer beams. As I started cutting with a reciprocating saw, it started shaking all the rust out. Turns out there was more rust than actual metal.... and two guys wanted me to take it on the road like this!  See the pile of rust on the ground?

IMG_0918-small.jpg

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I cut all the bad stuff out, it's a little bit dicey up at the hitch end, I wish there was more good metal, but I feel OK about it.  It's 20X better than "I was going to drill a couple of holes and bolt a 2 x 6 to it".... Thanks to whoever told me to get the reciprocating saw!

 

IMG_0921-small.jpg

IMG_0925-small.jpg

IMG_0927-small.jpg

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Patience, Ishmael!...First up, I have to get the thing out of there and down nearer to where I live. It's a 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 hour drive up there.

 

I have all the wood stuff for the interior decks, the  barney post and so on.   Immediate project list is..

1.)  plug hole for ancient, missing knotmeter

2.)  make rudder, make lower bronze rudder post

3.)  replace little pieces of deck trim which have screw holes into the deck...just asking for delamination, though it hasn't happened, yet.

4.) refinish and attach tiller

5.) acquire boom, and attach to mast

6.) replace one stranded rigging wire...the others should be replaced sooner rather than later but the one can NOT go back on the boat.

7.) acquire some used sails that will fit

8.)  put the inside wood deck structure back in...this stuff isn't really structural. I'll probably pressure wash it, replce anything that loos nasty, and prettify it.

 

And THEN I can sail the thing!

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Awesome! What ever you paid the welder it was worth it. 

Are you going to seal up the top where the new frame meets the old to prevent water intrusion? Leaving the bottom open to act as a weep hole is not a bad thing. And of course keeping it out of salt water will prolong it's life expectancy.

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As an old MG owner (sills that rusted from the inside to the outside), and seeing all the rust that "fell" out of the beam you cut out, it makes me wonder how much rust is on the inside of the other beam/how much metal is left?

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Bmiller, The young guy who did the welding was really good. He wanted $150 for that. I gave him $200. The steel for the job was $80.  $280 to resurrect that trailer is a pittance.  It's a steal and I like paying good craftsmen well, when they do a good job. If anybody needs a mobile welder in the central foothills of the Sierra in California, let me know!  He even had an air compressor on his truck so I pumped up the tires with it.  That saved me 1,200 grunts with the bicycle pump.

 

Yes, I'm thinking about dropping some fiberglass cloth over the openings where rainwater is likely to get in.

 

Crash, I've taken a ball peen hammer and tapped over nearly all of the frame and there's good steel everywhere. The other beam is solid. I have no idea why that one just completely disintigrated. That said, there IS corrosion inside parts of the frame that I could get to when I cut out the really bad stuff, but there's good steel left to work with.  Whatever the case, the trailer is massively stronger than it was before I did this.  The advisability of making a boat trailer out of tubular beam steel puzzles me. NOT.

The guys in the class in Scotland never dunk their trailers. The boats are crane-lifted into the water at the beginning of the season and spend the season on moorings, mostly.  At 3500 pounds plus another 800+ for the trailer,  my little 4 cylinder Chevy S-10 is not pulling this thing up any ramp.

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Alan,

I figured you'd done that, just wanted to make sure it'b been thought of...

Crash

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3 hours ago, Alan H said:

Bmiller, The young guy who did the welding was really good. He wanted $150 for that. I gave him $200. 

That is very reasonable for a mobile welder to come out. It would have cost 10 times that at a trailer shop.

So did you end up with a cool new sawzall after the job?

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20 minutes ago, bmiller said:

That is very reasonable for a mobile welder to come out. It would have cost 10 times that at a trailer shop.

So did you end up with a cool new sawzall after the job?

Orchard Supply has closed down,  and sad as I was to see 'em go, I did buy a new sawzall and grinder at the going out of business sale.

 

Maybe I should have bought one of those 110V 150 amp chatterbox stick welders, while I was at it, but where the hell would I put it?

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1 hour ago, Alan H said:

Orchard Supply has closed down,  and sad as I was to see 'em go, I did buy a new sawzall and grinder at the going out of business sale.

 

Maybe I should have bought one of those 110V 150 amp chatterbox stick welders, while I was at it, but where the hell would I put it?

I think you spent just enough money. A cheap buzzbox is not what you need. 

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Congratulations on getting such a beautiful boat.

 

Going back to why that trailer failed on the one arm. I have an almost Identical trailer only shorter,  the trailer slipped off it's blocks  when I wasn't in attendance (I was working in Saudi for a few years). The trailer tilted down at the nose, that arm filled with rain water and  rusted through.

The trailer was built about 1970, the brakes are no longer available for this trailer, so I'll have to replace the entire suspension system / hubs, there is luckily a bolt on replacement.

I just hope I can find a welder as good as yours..

 

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On 9/4/2018 at 8:26 AM, Crash said:

Yeah, but be careful about who allows you to tow with it...Pretty sure most rental companies specifically forbid it.  UHaul is one of the few I know that allow it...

Before we got the Beast, we rented an F 150 from UHaul many times~ 3000 lbs boat and trailer with lots of windage, no trouble at all- effortless towing-

 

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On 12/16/2018 at 9:22 PM, Alan H said:

Patience, Ishmael!...First up, I have to get the thing out of there and down nearer to where I live. It's a 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 hour drive up there.

 

I have all the wood stuff for the interior decks, the  barney post and so on.   Immediate project list is..

1.)  plug hole for ancient, missing knotmeter

2.)  make rudder, make lower bronze rudder post

3.)  replace little pieces of deck trim which have screw holes into the deck...just asking for delamination, though it hasn't happened, yet.

4.) refinish and attach tiller

5.) acquire boom, and attach to mast

6.) replace one stranded rigging wire...the others should be replaced sooner rather than later but the one can NOT go back on the boat.

7.) acquire some used sails that will fit

8.)  put the inside wood deck structure back in...this stuff isn't really structural. I'll probably pressure wash it, replce anything that loos nasty, and prettify it.

 

And THEN I can sail the thing!

Make sure you have an extra tire and wheel, jack, blocks,  lug wrench and stands- have you checked the wheel bearings/ lube- we bought a used boat on a decrepit trailer south of  LA , trailered it up to Spokane, tire blew outside Redding on I5, 105 degrees- I HATE TRAILERS :angry:  Had a spare with thank God, but changing that thing in the shoulder with Semis blowing past 6 feet from my head- ACK!

Then there was the mast raising system that broke while raising the mast, the new mast, rigging, the new daggerboard (Phil’s Foils), no boatyard in the area, the new EZ loader (which is a peach, btw) and the new vehicle that would actually tow the thing, and designing, building and testing :o a mast raising system that won’t break.....

Suppprt groups are important!  :)

A Triak is beginning to look better and better....

That said, that Piper is a Beauty-

 

 

 

(What price beauty?) ;)

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1 hour ago, The Q said:

Congratulations on getting such a beautiful boat.

 

Going back to why that trailer failed on the one arm. I have an almost Identical trailer only shorter,  the trailer slipped off it's blocks  when I wasn't in attendance (I was working in Saudi for a few years). The trailer tilted down at the nose, that arm filled with rain water and  rusted through.

The trailer was built about 1970, the brakes are no longer available for this trailer, so I'll have to replace the entire suspension system / hubs, there is luckily a bolt on replacement.

I just hope I can find a welder as good as yours..

 

Be careful who you buy from. I've bought lots of running gear and components. For the most part it's the same stuff just different retailers.

AVOID at all costs southwest wheel. They lie and generally suck.

If you have a local http://www.redneck-trailer.com use them. 

I had good luck with this one also. http://www.dexterpartsonline.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6Knisr6p3wIVRBx9Ch06Hg4EEAAYAiAAEgLeA_D_BwE

Also bought some components from etrailer but never axles. They seem very receptive.

But above all do not use southwest wheel. Did I mention they suck and are lying liars?

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And test the lug nuts to make sure they aren’t frozen in place-  better to know that before you make the long coast down the grade....

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The previous owner said that he re-packed the bearings a few years ago and the boat has barely moved since then. Hmmm..

The wheels are pretty rusty, but tapping them, they seem OK.  they're FOUR hole wheels.  The tires have been sitting for  ??  years, partially deflated, I'm more worried about them not holding air.

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I've towed the S2 7.5 several times now, with the U-Haul truck, and it's 1,000 pounds heavier than the Piper.  I will have to get a pair of those magnetic stick-on taillights, though.

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14 minutes ago, Alan H said:

The previous owner said that he re-packed the bearings a few years ago and the boat has barely moved since then. Hmmm..

The wheels are pretty rusty, but tapping them, they seem OK.  they're FOUR hole wheels.  The tires have been sitting for  ??  years, partially deflated, I'm more worried about them not holding air.

Have you hauled it home yet or is it still sitting at the po's place? I'd replace those rotted tires beforehand.

Is there any suspension on those axles or is it just a spindle welded to the frame? If so you could put a couple torsion spindles to give the ride a little cush.

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It's a spindle, well...four spindles, with the push-braking system integrated, but it's weird. Remember, built in Scotland in 1970, 48 years ago..  I've never seen anything like this before.

 

Having a spare is a REALLY good idea. Hmmm....how to accomplish this.

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I'm guessing your suspension unit's are like these.

http://www.indespension.co.uk/214-braked-suspension-units.

There is rubber inside the box section to act as suspension, it's very effective.

Yours, like mine, used push rods, the new ones on that link are cable operated but effectively work the same way. Except IIRC the new cables hold the brakes off, where as the old rods pushed the brakes on. 

Also IIRC the change was safety, if the rod system fails, you have no brakes, if the cable system fails your brakes come on till you do something about it.

Note they have 4 hole wheel and tyre assemblies here

 http://www.indespension.co.uk/218-13-diameter

Though mine are the old 10 inch as on the original mini.

It may give you some help as to what for look for over there...

Oh Indespension are a UK national company, and one of the biggest for trailers, they may have an agent in the USA

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Insurance has been obtained, spare tire purchased..  the countdown begins.

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Further updates....The Rudder.  Here's a pic of the empty space where the rudder should be.

 



 

IMG_0466-small.jpg

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The current rudder is toast... It's pretty obvious from these pictures.  The first is the existing rudder sitting on top of a stack of redwood that I will make into the new rudder.  The emergency rudder that I made from redwood, glue'd up with PL100 and sheathed in triaxial glass works great, and this rudder is quite a bit smaller than that one, so I figure I should be fine.

 

IMG_0993-small-crop.jpg

rudder-endview-small-crop.jpg

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...and here we are, gluing up.  I'll shape this one with a power planer and a belt sander, then sheathe with triaxial glass  in epoxy.

 

 

IMG_1002-small.jpg

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humm. Im no boat builder but I have worked with redwood in the past and remember it for the way you could split it perfectly and easily. I hope you'll add some transverse strength

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There will be a number of lag bolts through the first couple of boards, and the whole thing will be sheathed in triaxial fiberglass. I don't think it's gonna come apart!

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Looks like your DIY skills have come a long way! Cool project!  Is she on the flats yet?

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2 hours ago, Alan H said:

I started a little blog to document the restoration.

Piper 24 restoration

Alan,

I like the blog. Looking forward to seeing your progress on the rudder.

B.C.

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I was encouraged by a couple of folks in the 1-D Association, all of which are in Scotland,  to document it all.

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