Alan H

Piper OD .. dayboat

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There's a good old boat,  Piper 24 One Design for sale up in the hills a few hours from where I live, for a pittance.

What's a Piper one-design?  Our mates in Scotland know, but for you guys who are clueless, read what Bob Perry had to say when Cornish Crabber cranked out a few a while ago.
 

http://sailingmagazine.net/article-300-piper-24.html

The Piper OD races on the firth of the Clyde, with a bunch of the fleet racing out of the Holy Loch Sailing Club. The Holy Loch is the site of the former USN nuclear submarine base for the North Atlantic.  The Brits have their sub base, the next loch over on the Gare Loch..  57 Piper One Designs were made, then the molds sat. Apparently there's a mold in Bermuda, somewhere, taken off of hull #24, which is also in Bermuda. i THINK.....can't swear to this but I THINK that David Boyd basically trimmed up some lines from the *pant, drool* Gareloch Goddesses and create the  Piper.  Subsequently, around 2014, the Rustler 24 was introduced, which basically is  Piper OD with an aluminum two-spreader rig, updated, but super simple deck layout, sloped coaming sides and some other nice little details.

 

Here's a Piper OD -

https://www.boatshop24.co.uk/img/adphotos/541/85541_piper-one-design-_photo_0_1443153735_img.jpg

 

what the water sees -

http://images.networkyachtbrokers.com/details/04310/04310_image_extra_2.jpg

 

and here's a Rustler 24, the "sexified" version of the Piper OD -

http://newimages.yachtworld.com/resize/1/17/81/4911781_20150114103547790_1_XLARGE.jpg?f=/1/17/81/4911781_20150114103547790_1_XLARGE.jpg&w=1024&h=683&t=1421260653000

 

VERY very tempted here.  I already have a boat but when I get back from the "Big Cruise"  I wanna be a Gentleman Daysailer.

 

 

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This is a Gareloch Goddess...Gareloch One Design.

 

19906567908_4395e5db42_b.jpg

 

And here is the Gareloch one Design website. - http://garelochod.org/

 

The Goddesses and the Piper are basically the same length overall.

Here's a Piper scootin' along.  ceilidh%2027%20fcc13%20130810%209576yi.J

 

and another.

Cove_2010_part_1_028.sized.jpg

 

With a smallish headsail on a roller furler, methinks this is how gentlemen go sailing for the day.

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I think I found the ad. 

That pittance will become a small fortune in no time. 

You should do it.

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Maybe it's the holiday weekend.

Do you know where the boat is? You could just take it and leave a note with your email address. :D

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The town isn't that big, I probably COULD drive up there and find it! LOL

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9 hours ago, Alan H said:

The town isn't that big, I probably COULD drive up there and find it! LOL

We want pics!

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The owner that the 1-D association has listed lives in the right town. He's a real estate agent and his phone number is listed. I'mma ring him up later today.

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Oh shit. RE agents consistently have a high drift factor, about the same as yacht brokers. Good luck.

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I called, The voice on the answering machine confirmed that I had the right name.  I left a callback number and communicated that I knew what a Piper One Design was and that I'd sent four e-mails this week.  We'll see.

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We're playing phone tag, but I've got the right guy.

 

Meanwhile, down in Texas...

https://www.coastmonthly.com/2017/09/piper/

 

170924-cst-stem-piper-03_132_3143.jpg

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Finally talked to him.  Hull hasn't been in the water, he thinks in 40 years. He thinks the decks are good.

Some ditzbrain apparently called him up and told him that there was a fleet of them racing in  San Francisco. Riiiight. There are seven, count 'em seven of these hulls in North America. I  now know where four of them are.

it has the original early 70's yellow-anodized  aluminum mast, which all the guys in Scotland swear are faster than the newer sticks.  Tires on the trailer are < 4 years old. No sails.  They'd be shite, anyway, so it doesn't matter.

I gotta convince the Admiral at home to go for this, but if I can pull that off, I'mma gonna pull the trigger on this one.

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On 5/29/2018 at 3:47 PM, Alan H said:

I gotta convince the Admiral at home to go for this, but if I can pull that off, I'mma gonna pull the trigger on this one.

Alan, the guys are getting impatient. How's it going?

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In response to the Mrs' concerns, I'm working overtime to put together the  Caledonia/California Classic Sailing Syndicate. As in, me and two buddies go in together to buy the thing.  I'm tempted to buy it, so someone else doesn't and then just deal with the partnership details, later.  I'm also calling around about storage options.  As in, if the TI Sailing bunch doesn't have a dry storage slot, is there somewhere in the Delta that I can keep it for cheap until a dry-storage/launch slot comes available.

Answer to that is *yes*, BTW.

 

It appears that some have crossed to France.

http://associationtrident.e-monsite.com/pages/membres-et-bateaux/thor-le-piper-24-de-dominique.html

 

3.jpg

 

 

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Damn. I'll sail with you France. I'll even pay my own way!

Somebody needs to hit that dude in the red jacket over the head.

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What's the story on the boats in Texas? Seriously, this is the day sailor I've been looking for.

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If you’re in the SF Bay Area are a competent sailor, have basic maintenance skills and are interested in a 1/3 partnership in this boat, PM me.  We have two and are looking for a third.

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14 hours ago, Nirie said:

What's the story on the boats in Texas? Seriously, this is the day sailor I've been looking for.

I think there’s only one in Texas.  The article says that seven came to North America but I’m not sure that’s right.  At least 30 Rustler 24’s have been built, but I’d guess most are in the UK.

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BOOM!  Made an offer...he counter-offered. Got it.   SWEET!

 

Apparently the trailer isn't capable of getting the boat down here from up in Nevada City. That's the bad news. The good news is that another guy I've been communicating with, who knows his shit, has tapped the deck and hull and found no delamination. Delammed decks are the primary bugaboo with these things.  SWEET.

I've got another rudder to make! LOL

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12 minutes ago, Alan H said:

BOOM!  Made an offer...he counter-offered. Got it.   SWEET!

 

Apparently the trailer isn't capable of getting the boat down here from up in Nevada City. That's the bad news. The good news is that another guy I've been communicating with, who knows his shit, has tapped the deck and hull and found no delamination. Delammed decks are the primary bugaboo with these things.  SWEET.

I've got another rudder to make! LOL

Alan! Congratulations! Can't wait to see pics!

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Now I have some reading to do, to figure out how to build the rudder for this thing.

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That’s my boy! Got himself a proper yacht!!!!!

major congratulations 

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5 hours ago, Alan H said:

Now I have some reading to do, to figure out how to build the rudder for this thing.

This thread is helpful.

 

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Ha ha!...NACA section on this rudder?  I don't think so!

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I FINALLY actually saw the boat yesterday. I did a one-day run up to Nevada City...ten hours in the car for five and a half hours of boat time.

 

There's work, here.  There's only one "bulkhead" in the boat and it needs rebuilding, but no big deal. The plywood "partial" bulkheads are mostly in good shape. One might need replacing or epoxy injected into it.   The hull is rock solid. Hull color is aqua paint over white gelcoat...Hmmm... what to do about that?    There's no boom. **Effff...* Rudder is long, long gone, I'll be building a new one.  Rudder post is there and the lower bronze gudgeon is there. *whew*.  One rigging wire is stranded, everything else looks to be perfect. The wire ends were done up with Norseman terminals, so it's a DIY job. The turnbuckles look totally fine.  I might not have to totally re-rig the boat, which would be sweet.  I think there's a spinnaker..no other sails, though the spinny might be from the guys old Flying Fifteen.  He's got the F-15 keel lying on  his driveway, says I can have it if I want it.  WTH would I do with a flying fifteen keel?

 

On the way home I stopped in Davis for a bathroom break and coffee and there was a bagpiper playing on the street. After I got the coffee I realized that the piper was really good, so I went to see who it was. Turns out it was Chelsea Joy, who's been my "hot girl piper" crush for two years, though she doesn't know me from Adam.  So I tossed $10 in her tip bucket, freaked her out by calling her by her name and we had a nice conversation about piping, the World Championships (she's going, with the main San Francisco pipe band), the Schotts & Dykehead band, and so on.  She played four minutes of her competition  piobrochead for me for my ten bucks, and I served as advertising manager for twenty minutes as people came by. I got a hug and a kiss on the cheek.  Made my day.  She's the redhead in this video.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8dkhFQfXG8

 

Here's Chelsea with the band she used to play with, the "Angry Brians".

the-angry-brians-2.jpg

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2 hours ago, Alan H said:

I got a hug and a kiss on the cheek.  Made my day.  She's the redhead in this video.

 

So how did she react when you showed her pics of your new Piper? And when do we get to see them?

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5 hours ago, Alan H said:

He's got the F-15 keel lying on  his driveway, says I can have it if I want it.  WTH would I do with a flying fifteen keel?

Buy a dose of ply and a stash of epoxy, and get @willp14335 to design an epoxy ply hull to fit on top of the keel.

Then you will have a boat whose design credits are shared by two naval architects born a century apart.  One of the great designers of the mid-20th century in posthumous collaboration with a rising star of the mid-21st century.

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For you UK guys, what the heck is the piston and lever for, on this trailer hitch?  The piston leads to a small rod which goes back to a little bridle back near the front axle. That bridle leads to rods that go to each of the wheels.  Emergency brake?  Surge Brake?

Trailer hitch.jpg

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1 hour ago, Alan H said:

Here ya go, Bull!

piper24-1.jpg

What a sweet boat. Can't wait to see your progress. 

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5 hours ago, Alan H said:

For you UK guys, what the heck is the piston and lever for, on this trailer hitch?  The piston leads to a small rod which goes back to a little bridle back near the front axle. That bridle leads to rods that go to each of the wheels.  Emergency brake?  Surge Brake?

It is a parking brake cum surge brake.

Mode 1: parking. Pull lever and lock it.

Mode 2: normal driving.  Fully release lever, and flip out the pawl over the piston so it is free to move.  Now if the trailer starts pushing the car fwd (e.g. when car brakes are applied), the piston is pushed back and the trailer brakes itself.

Mode 3: reversing.  Fully release lever, and flip in the pawl over the piston, so that the piston cannot move.  Now you can reverse without trailer applying its own brakes.

I thought this was how trailer brakes were set up on all light trailers.  Heavy ones have a plug-in-link to the towing vehicle's hydraulics (e.g. on what you folks call a "semi" and we call an "articulated truck" or "artic") ... but AFAIK this is how all Yurp does it for trailers over the EU 750kg unbraked limit and below whatever the threshold is for fully-linked brakes.

How do Muricans brake light trailers?

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16 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

How do Muricans brake light trailers?

Cowboy boots.:D

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1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

It is a parking brake cum surge brake.

Mode 1: parking. Pull lever and lock it.

Mode 2: normal driving.  Fully release lever, and flip out the pawl over the piston so it is free to move.  Now if the trailer starts pushing the car fwd (e.g. when car brakes are applied), the piston is pushed back and the trailer brakes itself.

Mode 3: reversing.  Fully release lever, and flip in the pawl over the piston, so that the piston cannot move.  Now you can reverse without trailer applying its own brakes.

I thought this was how trailer brakes were set up on all light trailers.  Heavy ones have a plug-in-link to the towing vehicle's hydraulics (e.g. on what you folks call a "semi" and we call an "articulated truck" or "artic") ... but AFAIK this is how all Yurp does it for trailers over the EU 750kg unbraked limit and below whatever the threshold is for fully-linked brakes.

How do Muricans brake light trailers?

OK, then!  And are these assemblies still available to be purchased?  Where might I acquire one of these unit to put on the "new" front-third of the trailer than I'm going to be built?

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It appears that the answer is "yes"

http://www.trailerspares.net/store,search.html

https://www.autow.com/trailer-parts/trailer-couplings/spring-braked-couplings/BD040M

I think I need one of these...which means taking more measurements. Ugh.  ---  https://caravanchronicles.com/guides/understanding-over-run-brake-systems/

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1 hour ago, Alan H said:

Ugh. 

I hear you, Alan, but just keep thinking about how happy you will be sailing your refurbished Piper!

I spent 7 months doing this with my H-Boat.

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Hmm, those units are   -->>  **Expensive**

 

I was going to rebuild the entire front part of the trailer, but if I have to replace the  overrun spring cylinder unit as well we're talking major cash.  I might just cut out and replace the rusted out beam instead.  The seller has a hand-bandsaw so cutting it out at the back end will be easy.  . If I got an angle grinder I could "probably" clean out enough  up at the hitch end to make it possible to weld in another piece.  It means a buttload of labor (mine)  but less labor to play the welders, and a lot less steel to buy, AND the $$ equivalent of 150 pounds plus shipping of an expensive heavy item from the UK.

 

I can lie in the grass and grind for a while, I think.

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We call them override brakes in Oz, most small trailers have them. Simple but effective.

Sweet boat.

Trailer looks just fine, what could go wrong......

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17 minutes ago, Fleetwood said:

We call them override brakes in Oz, most small trailers have them. Simple but effective.

Sweet boat.

Trailer looks just fine, what could go wrong......

Yeah, you can't see the completely rusted out part from this side!

 

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What does the boat weigh, maybe 4000? Can you disable that system and haul it home? Then replace both axles with Dexter 3500's, one electric brake and a new coupler. Easy and cheap.

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2 hours ago, bmiller said:

What does the boat weigh, maybe 4000? Can you disable that system and haul it home? Then replace both axles with Dexter 3500's, one electric brake and a new coupler. Easy and cheap.

3500. Add in 1K for the trailer, maybe 800...so 4300 -4500 all up.  Can I disable the system?  Yes!

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Hi. Just caught onto this site. Think there was 58 Pipers built. If this is piper 24?, the list from 2017 indicated last known name was Spring Tide and sailed out of Antigua. I sail out of Royal Gourock on the River Clyde. We have 6 club owned papers and another which is privately owned. Racing is Tuesday's and Wednesdays. We also have social sailing on Fridays(on Pipers) and teach people who are interested in sailing free of charge for 1st year. Just raced on Saturday out of Holy Loch on the Piper Anniversary. The Pipers have there own association and website with 2 Pipers currently up for sail. 

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6 hours ago, Alan H said:

3500. Add in 1K for the trailer, maybe 800...so 4300 -4500 all up.  Can I disable the system?  Yes!

What do you have for a tow vehicle? Will you be able to put the boat on stands for the refurb? 

If so then you can get the trailer to someone like me to rebuild the frame and running gear. Unless of course you have skills and equipment to do it.

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5 hours ago, Ianscot said:

Hi Alan. Is there an actual boat number for your Piper?  

I know about the Gourock Pipers!  I'm in contact with several class members in Scotland, as well.

This is hull #35, name is "Alpha".  I think hull #24 was used to make the Rustler 24 mold. Hmm... not sure of that hull number.

bmiller, this trailer is like nothing I've ever seen before.  I mean, obviously it's welded steel, then painted, but the method of construction is nothing like any sailboat  trailer I've ever seen. My goal right now is to make the trailer functional and get it down to a dry storage area that's not far from my house that won't break the bank while I work on it.

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2 hours ago, Alan H said:

this trailer is like nothing I've ever seen before.  I mean, obviously it's welded steel, then painted, but the method of construction is nothing like any sailboat  trailer I've ever seen. 

Since it was made in the UK, maybe it's right hand drive.:)

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My little  Chevy S-10 will pull this thing around the storage yard just fine, but I'm not using that little 4-cylinder to pull it on the highway. Besides, with my current setup, my towing limit on the truck is 800 pounds.  NOT.  So I was gonna rent a big U-Haul  8 cylinder pickup.  Those can tow 6K pounds.  It's a fairly steep downhill for about two miles out of this guys driveway to get to town, and then on the highway, it's three hours to the storage yard.  Thre's about a 3,000 foot elevation drop on the highway to that yard.    I'm not sure I want to do that without brakes on the trailer. 

 

There are some dual axle trailers for sale around the SF Bay area for about $500.  They're all powerboat trailers, but with another $200 worth of steel and some basic welding, I'd have something.  So that's tempting, too.

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