jgbrown

Interesting new DIY Catamaran build

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It seems interesting, the builder has taken the time to buy and read several books and develop a plan for the boat so not in the same league as Hot Rod and that steel box with 2x4 framing video series on here.  On the other hand some of the build quality seems a little alarming.  The organ as steering station, outboard legs built into rudders etc are interesting.

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For a start, the masts aft of the centre of pressure of the wingsails isn't going to end well as the sails are going to "self sheet".

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Does it have to be so ugly? I realize that not everyone is an artist and it's generally easier to build flat than curved, not to mention compound curved, but come on. My Catalina's sheer is dead-straight and it doesn't look like shit...

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Why the new thread? Ugly Boats are down the hall a bit.

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I would need to see more on how that cross beam is connected to the hulls but my SWAG is that it will break up in anything but calmish seas.

When will they ever learn When will they ever learn

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32 minutes ago, TQA said:

 

When will they ever learn?

Usually within minutes of launching

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That drawing is up to BS standards at least.

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3 hours ago, HFC Hunter said:

Why the new thread? Ugly Boats are down the hall a bit.

Because it isn't for sale, or finished.  It's an ongoing project with the builder documenting along the way.  I figured it could use it's own thread to follow along.  

 

2 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Waterproofing using "Great Stuff" foam in a spray can.

 

Are we really sure this guy is not another Hot Rod?

Hmm I think he's using it as coring possibly as well?  He mentioned somewhere taping the foam with gorilla tape or something and then glassing over it?  The stacking of dozens of offcuts of steel instead of cutting and welding is also interesting.

I'm not sure yet if he is, but I'm enjoying following along.  The step up from Hot Rod is that the hulls are more boat shaped, as are the glassed on rudders to outboard legs, which I think are my current favorite component after the organ as steering station?   Also there is some resin and glass involved along the way.   The window screen epoxied to plexiglass is a close third for interesting components.  I'm curious how long that will last exposed to UV.  I'm trying to give a little benefit of the doubt here for the fact that he read some books on boats(Which both Hot Rod and that steel box guy were vehemently opposed to), and the fact that it reminds me a bit of the Mcbarge on top.  While I think it looks dangerous and questionable for use as boat, I am curious to see if it will float and where it gets too if it does.  I could see it lasting fairly well for a season or two as a houseboat at anchor somewhere sheltered. 

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5 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Waterproofing using "Great Stuff" foam in a spray can.

21728165_1860610724253031_85988991967962

Are we really sure this guy is not another Hot Rod?

Good God I hope so..  It looks like Rimas is landlocked for a while and Jen was a flash in the pan just like tin can...  We need a summer thread to look forward to..  

 

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3 hours ago, jgbrown said:

Because it isn't for sale, or finished.  It's an ongoing project with the builder documenting along the way.  I figured it could use it's own thread to follow along.  

 

Hmm I think he's using it as coring possibly as well?  He mentioned somewhere taping the foam with gorilla tape or something and then glassing over it?  The stacking of dozens of offcuts of steel instead of cutting and welding is also interesting.

I'm not sure yet if he is, but I'm enjoying following along.  The step up from Hot Rod is that the hulls are more boat shaped, as are the glassed on rudders to outboard legs, which I think are my current favorite component after the organ as steering station?   Also there is some resin and glass involved along the way.   The window screen epoxied to plexiglass is a close third for interesting components.  I'm curious how long that will last exposed to UV.  I'm trying to give a little benefit of the doubt here for the fact that he read some books on boats(Which both Hot Rod and that steel box guy were vehemently opposed to), and the fact that it reminds me a bit of the Mcbarge on top.  While I think it looks dangerous and questionable for use as boat, I am curious to see if it will float and where it gets too if it does.  I could see it lasting fairly well for a season or two as a houseboat at anchor somewhere sheltered. 

I bet it will float. All kinds of flotsam floats.

How far? I thought Hod Rod's boat would break up when someone said the anchorage he was using regularly got ferry boat wakes. I figured those would be big enough to make those hulls want to do two different things and nothing he built looked like it could stop that. But I was wrong. I also didn't think my table disintegration experiment would still be ongoing in 2018.

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36 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I bet it will float. All kinds of flotsam floats.

How far? I thought Hod Rod's boat would break up when someone said the anchorage he was using regularly got ferry boat wakes. I figured those would be big enough to make those hulls want to do two different things and nothing he built looked like it could stop that. But I was wrong. I also didn't think my table disintegration experiment would still be ongoing in 2018.

Yeah , how’s that going? Any updates? Pics? The last pics I remember are from around the time Tom Scott deleted his account back in July.

Too bad. That guy could bury a rail

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16 hours ago, shaggy said:
21 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Waterproofing using "Great Stuff" foam in a spray can.

21728165_1860610724253031_85988991967962

Are we really sure this guy is not another Hot Rod?

Good God I hope so..  It looks like Rimas is landlocked for a while and Jen was a flash in the pan just like tin can...  We need a summer thread to look forward to..  

 

I can't figure out what this is a picture of, other than some horrible mish-mash of botched construction and doom on the hoof.

Looks like a piece of foam-clad all thread thru a piece of delaminating rotted plywood barely containing more squirt-in foam.

Some part of one of the cross-beams?

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

horrible mish-mash of botched construction and doom on the hoof.

That's almost as good as "fractal mistake" and the thread is young.

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11 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I can't figure out what this is a picture of, other than some horrible mish-mash of botched construction and doom on the hoof.

Looks like a piece of foam-clad all thread thru a piece of delaminating rotted plywood barely containing more squirt-in foam.

Some part of one of the cross-beams?

FB- Doug

It gets better once you realize that middle column is actually a bunch of square tube off cuts stacked with a bolt through them from the top down and that it's getting glassed over.   It's like compounding a bad idea with bad design and then adding bad materials.  I like it!

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3 minutes ago, jgbrown said:

It gets better once you realize that middle column is actually a bunch of square tube off cuts stacked with a bolt through them from the top down and that it's getting glassed over.   It's like compounding a bad idea with bad design and then adding bad materials.  I like it!

And this country once sent a man to the moon

:(

Does anybody have any contact with this guy at all? Any hope of trying to get Miss Clue to go out on a blind date with him?

-DSK

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13 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Does anybody have any contact with this guy at all? Any hope of trying to get Miss Clue to go out on a blind date with him?

It's way too early in the thread for the arrival of the hero. We need to delve into the construction details a bit more first.

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On 5/26/2018 at 6:04 PM, Uncooperative Tom said:

It's way too early in the thread for the arrival of the hero. We need to delve into the construction details a bit more first.

The deeper you delve the more intriguing they get.   The "NACA 32 Foil sections" built onto the outboard legs and cured on the dryer are the perfect blend of careful study incorrectly applied and WTF to create something wonderful.  

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4 hours ago, jgbrown said:

the perfect blend of careful study incorrectly applied and WTF to create something wonderful.  

Hah! That's not quite as good as "doom on the hoof" but this boat clearly has lots of entertainment potential.

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9 hours ago, jgbrown said:

The deeper you delve the more intriguing they get.   The "NACA 32 Foil sections" built onto the outboard legs and cured on the dryer are the perfect blend of careful study incorrectly applied and WTF to create something wonderful.  

Well, the "something wonderful" could be taken in the original sense, as in "I wonder?" I missed the NACA 32 foil sections...... really? something there does not compute...... and the electric organ (rigged for 12VDC power?) with dual throttles...... indeed, I wonder about so much going on here.

I've often thought that a large home built catamabarge would be a great home base for an organic funk band, but it has to (at a minimum) keep the instruments from getting dunked or it gets real expensive long-term.

FB- Doug

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, the "something wonderful" could be taken in the original sense, as in "I wonder?" I missed the NACA 32 foil sections...... really? something there does not compute...... and the electric organ (rigged for 12VDC power?) with dual throttles...... indeed, I wonder about so much going on here.

I've often thought that a large home built catamabarge would be a great home base for an organic funk band, but it has to (at a minimum) keep the instruments from getting dunked or it gets real expensive long-term.

FB- Doug

Exactly.   I am so conflicted, because on the one hand I'm impressed by anyone who takes the time to do their research and has the ambition to build a boat, I freely admit that's beyond my skillset(or desire) but on the other hand...

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On 5/25/2018 at 11:09 PM, Sail4beer said:

Yeah , how’s that going? Any updates? Pics? The last pics I remember are from around the time Tom Scott deleted his account back in July.

Too bad. That guy could bury a rail

Why did Tom Scott leave our loving caring community? I wasn’t paying attention. 

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Just now, Mr. Ed said:

Why did Tom Scott leave our loving caring community? I wasn’t paying attention. 

Zero tolerance for "criticism". Ajax ribbed him about his heeling angles and he took umbrage.

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Ah, one man’s teasing is another man’s bullying. Being a pompous arse, I tease and bully myself just to get it out of the way and thereby save everyone else’s time.

Edited by Mr. Ed
Slightly self-important correction of syntax.
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I saw Tom recently, he's doing fine. I thought we were all just having fun with his rail burying but I guess not for him. He sails on.

The organ/helm is a fascinating innovation to me. I hope this boat lasts longer than the Flyin' Hawaiian just because I think it would be cool to be able to play an organ while driving a boat. Or play an organ at all, but especially while driving a boat. I never knew I wanted to do that before seeing this boat.

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8 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I saw Tom recently, he's doing fine. I thought we were all just having fun with his rail burying but I guess not for him. He sails on.

The organ/helm is a fascinating innovation to me. I hope this boat lasts longer than the Flyin' Hawaiian just because I think it would be cool to be able to play an organ while driving a boat. Or play an organ at all, but especially while driving a boat. I never knew I wanted to do that before seeing this boat.

That is a puzzler..... which one to start with? Learning to sail or learning to play

Does an ascending scale make the boat turn to port or starboard?

I can picture a Phantom of the Opera -like scene, with a huge America's Cup style racer zipping along, making breathtaking maneuvers at high speed, while the mad genius designer helmsman/composer grandly plays some Beethoven-like music.

Oh an BTW Tom I think you could probably build a better boat than this if you put your mind to it. But considering that you can buy pretty good boats for a lot less, it's not very tempting. The only time I think about building a boat is when I think about one of a type that cannot be bought, like the Swamp Sportboat.

-DSK

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15 hours ago, Ishmael said:
15 hours ago, Mr. Ed said:

Why did Tom Scott leave our loving caring community? I wasn’t paying attention. 

Zero tolerance for "criticism". Ajax ribbed him about his heeling angles and he took umbrage.

It wasn't Ajax's fault. Several people, myself included, made suggestions that he seemed to always take unkindly

-DSK

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12 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

That is a puzzler..... which one to start with? Learning to sail or learning to play

Does an ascending scale make the boat turn to port or starboard?

I can picture a Phantom of the Opera -like scene, with a huge America's Cup style racer zipping along, making breathtaking maneuvers at high speed, while the mad genius designer helmsman/composer grandly plays some Beethoven-like music.

Oh an BTW Tom I think you could probably build a better boat than this if you put your mind to it. But considering that you can buy pretty good boats for a lot less, it's not very tempting. The only time I think about building a boat is when I think about one of a type that cannot be bought, like the Swamp Sportboat.

-DSK

The organ on a boat has been done before.  Just ask Captain Nemo

Image result for 20000 leagues organ

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On 5/26/2018 at 7:50 PM, Steam Flyer said:

And this country once sent a man to the moon

:(

 

-DSK

Back then engineers could still work a slide rule....

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

It wasn't Ajax's fault. Several people, myself included, made suggestions that he seemed to always take unkindly

-DSK

With one or two masochistic exceptions, the thin-skinned don't fit in well around here.

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It wasn't Ajax's fault. Several people, myself included, made suggestions that he seemed to always take unkindly

-DSK

Many of us had contributed suggestions and ribbing, but it's handy to blame Ajax as the proximate cause since he never offends anybody.

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This simple request had me thinking that I was only going to be seeing balanced helms in the near future.

 

368EEA14-9150-44BD-92AA-13191AA44FAE.png

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On 5/28/2018 at 2:29 PM, jgbrown said:

The deeper you delve the more intriguing they get.   The "NACA 32 Foil sections" built onto the outboard legs and cured on the dryer are the perfect blend of careful study incorrectly applied and WTF to create something wonderful.  

Still not sure how those outboard legs will react to the heavy copper coating..

 

Methinks it won't end well.

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19 minutes ago, dorydude said:

 

 

Methinks it won't end well.

You Sir, are correct!

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On 5/26/2018 at 9:57 AM, Uncooperative Tom said:

That's almost as good as "fractal mistake" and the thread is young.

"Doom on the hoof" might have legs indeed!

 

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11 hours ago, madohe said:
On 5/26/2018 at 8:50 PM, Steam Flyer said:

And this country once sent a man to the moon

:(

 

-DSK

Back then engineers could still work a slide rule....

They could, and I actually have a slide rule used by a space program engineer, my dad.

But he left before the lunar program and even in his time they were starting to use computers. Giant, noisy, unreliable things that took up whole rooms and had laughably small memory and processing power by today's standards

. They also had other rooms full of human computers because that was a job title back then. My mother was a one of those. They sat there and did fun stuff like calculating square roots by hand all day.

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There was a pretty good movie about the human computers during the early days of NASA. IIRC it was called "Hidden Figures".  Well worth watching. 

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On 5/28/2018 at 2:20 PM, Ishmael said:

Zero tolerance for "criticism". Ajax ribbed him about his heeling angles and he took umbrage.

Dude, we all did and the thread went to 600 + pages.  Was that really the last straw??

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On 5/29/2018 at 7:11 AM, py26129 said:

The organ on a boat has been done before.  Just ask Captain Nemo

Image result for 20000 leagues organ

Oh, please tell me that he used 20,000 leagues under the sea as his "research" Book...:)

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Hi Shaggy!

I tried to message you and answer you directly. Only after I composed the message did I see that you do not accept messages.:( 

So, I will answer you directly here.

As I have told others who have messaged me, I simply realized that I am not a good fit for the kind of conversation that permeates this forum.  I had about 13 people on ignore, and still couldn't get away from it. And when the shit started getting directed toward me personally, I absolutely knew I didn't want to participate in that ugly "game".  

I sail for enjoyment. I don't mind arguments at all - but many here seem to talk "at you" rather than "with you". Some say things I do on my boat won't work for them (Fine!), but then they say it doesn't work for ME, even though I know it does!  ( Halyards at the mast; Atomic 4; centerboard; no lazy jacks; etc.). Others here seem to go out of their way to TRY and attack at every possible opportunity. Sure, I get that this is "anarchy", so there is no changing it.  But, I just don't enjoy the mudslinging.  I would far prefer to disagree without being disagreeable, and far less ugliness ..and that just isn't what SA is all about.  

I am a bad fit for here. 

The precipitating moment for me was this: I got a bunch a shit thrown at me in a thread I started about shoal draft cruisers, and a couple of others piled on there and elsewhere. It was said that I was "argumentative" and "bullheaded"? ..Of course there was no way for me to argue that point without making their point. :D 

I came here to talk about sailboats, not get into personality wars.  I lurked here for many years long before I posted - and I am happily back to lurking now. (..I actually lasted longer than I imagined I would! ;))

I truly have no issue with anyone who thinks my boat heels too much, or doesn't agree with how I sail her.  My "issue" arises when the disagreement evolves beyond someone arguing about what I do, and becomes focused on attacking me personally - as if I'm personally flawed because I don't sail the way they do,  or do things the way they do.  Perhaps that difference seems subtle to some - but not for me. It's the difference between saying: "That rigging you have there is fucked up!", and "You are fucked up". And while I do tend to be rather thin-skinned, my departure was really about not wanting to be drawn into repeated ugly conversations - something I could readily do if I didn't control myself. I see more and more people just being rude and ugly to one another every day. It sickens me. Being ugly and rude has nearly become a "new normal" almost everywhere, and it seems to be celebrated here. I don't want to be that way.

Since the age of eight, sailing has always been my vehicle to step away from all the ugliness I encounter.  I'm choosing to value and protect that.

Bottom Line:  I'm just not a good fit for here.

Hope this clarifies things for you. 

Tom Scott

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Ditto!  I especially miss the pics and the air of contentment that emanated from them.

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20 hours ago, Tom Scott said:

Hi Shaggy!

I tried to message you and answer you directly. Only after I composed the message did I see that you do not accept messages.:( 

So, I will answer you directly here.

As I have told others who have messaged me, I simply realized that I am not a good fit for the kind of conversation that permeates this forum.  I had about 13 people on ignore, and still couldn't get away from it. And when the shit started getting directed toward me personally, I absolutely knew I didn't want to participate in that ugly "game".  

I sail for enjoyment. I don't mind arguments at all - but many here seem to talk "at you" rather than "with you". Some say things I do on my boat won't work for them (Fine!), but then they say it doesn't work for ME, even though I know it does!  ( Halyards at the mast; Atomic 4; centerboard; no lazy jacks; etc.). Others here seem to go out of their way to TRY and attack at every possible opportunity. Sure, I get that this is "anarchy", so there is no changing it.  But, I just don't enjoy the mudslinging.  I would far prefer to disagree without being disagreeable, and far less ugliness ..and that just isn't what SA is all about.  

I am a bad fit for here. 

The precipitating moment for me was this: I got a bunch a shit thrown at me in a thread I started about shoal draft cruisers, and a couple of others piled on there and elsewhere. It was said that I was "argumentative" and "bullheaded"? ..Of course there was no way for me to argue that point without making their point. :D 

I came here to talk about sailboats, not get into personality wars.  I lurked here for many years long before I posted - and I am happily back to lurking now. (..I actually lasted longer than I imagined I would! ;))

I truly have no issue with anyone who thinks my boat heels too much, or doesn't agree with how I sail her.  My "issue" arises when the disagreement evolves beyond someone arguing about what I do, and becomes focused on attacking me personally - as if I'm personally flawed because I don't sail the way they do,  or do things the way they do.  Perhaps that difference seems subtle to some - but not for me. It's the difference between saying: "That rigging you have there is fucked up!", and "You are fucked up". And while I do tend to be rather thin-skinned, my departure was really about not wanting to be drawn into repeated ugly conversations - something I could readily do if I didn't control myself. I see more and more people just being rude and ugly to one another every day. It sickens me. Being ugly and rude has nearly become a "new normal" almost everywhere, and it seems to be celebrated here. I don't want to be that way.

Since the age of eight, sailing has always been my vehicle to step away from all the ugliness I encounter.  I'm choosing to value and protect that.

Bottom Line:  I'm just not a good fit for here.

Hope this clarifies things for you. 

Tom Scott

Hi Tom, Thanks for the reply, I enjoyed your pics as well and besides the normal ribbing, I hope I never crossed a line.  You do you.  :)

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19 hours ago, Tom Scott said:

I am a bad fit for here. 

Tom, you absolutely gotta do what works for you.

But I really do miss you around here.  Your photos and videos of your lovingly-maintained and v well-used boat were a constant source of joy, and the sheer pleasure you get from sailing Whimsy was infectious.  That was a wonderful thing to share when you felt able to share it ... so whatever you do now, thank you

I'm sorry that you felt that CA had become an uncomfortable place for you.  It seemed to me that a few wires got crossed between some v nice people, and I hoped it woud all sort itself out with a bit of time.  That doesn't seem to be how it felt for you, but I still do hope that some day you'll come feel able to back.

Best wishes to you and to Whismsy ... and rest assured that your crown as King of the Heel Angles is secure ;)  :D

 

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On 5/24/2018 at 11:45 PM, jgbrown said:

17626360_1776393826008055_3098944555645383993_n.jpg

 

 

 

 

Hashtag: #worstideaever.

WTF? Seriously?  Good luck man.

I notice that you draw on graph paper and only utilize a straight ruler and a red Sharpie.

I think you missed the mark on that waterline; you're about one graph paper square too shallow on the draft.

What exactly is the scale on this drawing anyhow?  

One square = I have no idea what I'm doing but the guy at Home Depot was very helpful.

Perry would have a field day with this shit...

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Oh man, I should've checked out his Facebook page BEFORE I started talking shit.  That way I'd have so much more shit to talk...

One example from FB:


In order to get the power of the Solar panels from the rear of the roof to the middle starboard hull (where I have the weight carrying capacity), I bought some very discounted direct bury wire. Tinned copper would have been over a hundred dollars. For ten bucks, I got 2 gauge wire for the job. Special work at the ends (including a pipe filled with epoxy), should make it good for a long time.

Man, and to think of all the money I could've saved on my rewire if I'd just not spent the extra dough on Anchor Marine tinned copper and just went with plain old hardware store shit.  Even if I have to replace it every single year, it'll be 10 years before I've spent the money that I saved by buying the right shit the first time.

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All this stuff is inspiring.

Follow your dreams, don't let negativity, criticism or "expert" know-alls stop you, every one of us can make their vision come true.

Starting tomorrow, I'm going to build a supersonic business jet in my back yard. I've got some timber and plywood, and there's those 5-6 sheets of corrugated iron in the yard that aren't too rusted. I'll get the rest of the stuff from recycling scrap and the occasional hardware store sale. (Must remember the cans of foam.)

I've looked at thousands of photos of jets. How hard can it be?

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Aww, the facebook link is down. I really wanted to check this out.

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36 minutes ago, Remodel said:

Aww, the facebook link is down. I really wanted to check this out.

153872871_2018-06-0813_34_28-PhilipFStone.thumb.png.2a7ddacdb802206b9dd5e2e1446c290f.png

How much flotation do you need to add under something before you consider it a dock instead of a boat?  I'm impressed it made it in the water, but I think he might be a little stern heavy... As a houseboat it's not bad really, I still think the Mcbarge must have been a design influence. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McBarge

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37 minutes ago, Remodel said:

Aww, the facebook link is down. I really wanted to check this out.

It works for me. They recently launched the boat. Even without rigs, gear, and finishing it looks to float a little low in the stern. 

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

It works for me. They recently launched the boat. Even without rigs, gear, and a ton of floats stuck under the deck it looks to float a little low in the stern. 

 

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1 hour ago, jgbrown said:

153872871_2018-06-0813_34_28-PhilipFStone.thumb.png.2a7ddacdb802206b9dd5e2e1446c290f.png

How much flotation do you need to add under something before you consider it a dock instead of a boat?  I'm impressed it made it in the water, but I think he might be a little stern heavy... As a houseboat it's not bad really, I still think the Mcbarge must have been a design influence. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McBarge

Pure Hot Rod FH design influence.

The McBarge was (is?) an extremely cool structure. I always wanted it for a floathome.

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Hotrod is one up on this POS. 

The Flying Hawaiian floated on it's  lines.

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On 6/8/2018 at 4:38 PM, jgbrown said:

153872871_2018-06-0813_34_28-PhilipFStone.thumb.png.2a7ddacdb802206b9dd5e2e1446c290f.png

How much flotation do you need to add under something before you consider it a dock instead of a boat?  I'm impressed it made it in the water, but I think he might be a little stern heavy... As a houseboat it's not bad really, I still think the Mcbarge must have been a design influence. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McBarge

Man I forgot about the McBarge.

 

And yeah the Facebook link is dead to me too.  I would call it a moment of clarity.

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