Blue Crab

Immigrant Children

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Personally, I’m in favor of a more open immigration policy.  I’m particularly in favor of giving preference to “christian-ish” east African countries, not because I give a shit about the religion but because I do give a shit that they have an understanding of English as a language and generic ‘western style’ democracies.  I think that helps with integration which is one of the areas where the European model has failed.

I don’t want to mimic Europe.

/ranton

I don’t want quotas where wealthy and ‘ivy educated’ gets priority.  They don’t need America.  The great American experiment was the belief that your past didn’t define your future.  You COULD get ahead and improve your lot by grit and determination.  The elite LOVE to hold on to the past.  They are ANTI-AMERICAN dream.  I don’t want dynasties.

Know who likes Caste Systems and hard immigration limits complete with ‘second class’ systems of partial citizenship?  Almost everyone else.  Japan?  Check.  China?  Yup, them too.  India?  Check.  Hell, they wrote the book.  Europe?  Check.  Feudal systems for the win!  Know who’s been moving that way in the last 20 years?  Yea.. America.  Yea US.  We’ve become fearful little pussies, just like the Eurotrash Colonial dictators we escaped and spent DECADES making fun of.  Why do we want to be them?

Fuck it.  Some poor woman from a backward as hell province in Guatemala has the testicular fortitude to pack up what’s left of her shit and bring her kids thousands of miles on top of trains, in the back of trucks, dealing with rape, more violence, etc. just for a chance to start over?  That woman’s  got fucking balls.  I WANT HER as a citizen.  Not some pampered trust fund princess who took a two week ‘church trip’ to help those poor people in Haiti so she’s have a good resume filler to get into UPenn or Columbia or NYU. 

Build a bigger wall, add more security, and ADD MORE PROCESSORS AND JUDGES.

This is a stupid made up problem so that the left can feel good about opposing Trump and the right can feel good about being ‘tough on crime’ and the 'rule of law'.  We’re a country of 340 MILLION people with a low birthtrate that’s only being propped up by immigration.  We could absorb every abused woman willing to make the trip and no one would notice.  Why do we want to be fucking Japan?  WHYY!!!?!?!?!

I don’t want to be like the rest of the world.  I want the competition and the grind and the pain and the failure that comes from competition.  I'm EXHAUSTED by people putting their thumb on the scales and then pretending it's for 'the greater good'.  

/rantoff

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

Personally, I’m in favor of a more open immigration policy.  I’m particularly in favor of giving preference to “christian-ish” east African countries, not because I give a shit about the religion but because I do give a shit that they have an understanding of English as a language and generic ‘western style’ democracies.  I think that helps with integration which is one of the areas where the European model has failed.

I don’t want to mimic Europe.

/ranton

I don’t want quotas where wealthy and ‘ivy educated’ gets priority.  They don’t need America.  The great American experiment was the belief that your past didn’t define your future.  You COULD get ahead and improve your lot by grit and determination.  The elite LOVE to hold on to the past.  They are ANTI-AMERICAN dream.  I don’t want dynasties.

Know who likes Caste Systems and hard immigration limits complete with ‘second class’ systems of partial citizenship?  Almost everyone else.  Japan?  Check.  China?  Yup, them too.  India?  Check.  Hell, they wrote the book.  Europe?  Check.  Feudal systems for the win!  Know who’s been moving that way in the last 20 years?  Yea.. America.  Yea US.  We’ve become fearful little pussies, just like the Eurotrash Colonial dictators we escaped and spent DECADES making fun of.  Why do we want to be them?

Fuck it.  Some poor woman from a backward as hell province in Guatemala has the testicular fortitude to pack up what’s left of her shit and bring her kids thousands of miles on top of trains, in the back of trucks, dealing with rape, more violence, etc. just for a chance to start over?  That woman’s  got fucking balls.  I WANT HER as a citizen.  Not some pampered trust fund princess who took a two week ‘church trip’ to help those poor people in Haiti so she’s have a good resume filler to get into UPenn or Columbia or NYU. 

Build a bigger wall, add more security, and ADD MORE PROCESSORS AND JUDGES.

This is a stupid made up problem so that the left can feel good about opposing Trump and the right can feel good about being ‘tough on crime’.  We’re a country of 340 MILLION people with a low birthtrate that’s only being propped up by immigration.  We could absorb every abused woman willing to make the trip and no one would notice.  Why do we want to be fucking Japan?  WHYY!!!?!?!?!

I don’t want to be like the rest of the world.  I want the competition and the grid and the pain and failure that comes from competition.  I'm EXHASTED by people putting their thumb on the scales and then pretending it's for 'the greater good'.  

/rantoff

 

 

 

Well said 

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24 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Don't think of them as "children".  Think of them as "potential democRATS" and it makes much more sense.  

2000 pawns....in a chess match where one of the players is a cunt who will swipe all the pieces off the board if he doesn’t win. 

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1 hour ago, dacapo said:

2000 pawns....in a chess match where one of the players is a cunt who will swipe all the pieces off the board if he doesn’t win. 

way more than 2k.  The DACA kids too.  

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If my wife is any indication, this issue is likely to get a lot of women to the polls. She is absolutely incensed over this policy. She’s typically fairly apolitical, but this really has her riled up. 

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6 hours ago, cmilliken said:

Personally, I’m in favor of a more open immigration policy.  I’m particularly in favor of giving preference to “christian-ish” east African countries, not because I give a shit about the religion but because I do give a shit that they have an understanding of English as a language and generic ‘western style’ democracies.  I think that helps with integration which is one of the areas where the European model has failed.

I don’t want to mimic Europe.

/ranton

I don’t want quotas where wealthy and ‘ivy educated’ gets priority.  They don’t need America.  The great American experiment was the belief that your past didn’t define your future.  You COULD get ahead and improve your lot by grit and determination.  The elite LOVE to hold on to the past.  They are ANTI-AMERICAN dream.  I don’t want dynasties.

Know who likes Caste Systems and hard immigration limits complete with ‘second class’ systems of partial citizenship?  Almost everyone else.  Japan?  Check.  China?  Yup, them too.  India?  Check.  Hell, they wrote the book.  Europe?  Check.  Feudal systems for the win!  Know who’s been moving that way in the last 20 years?  Yea.. America.  Yea US.  We’ve become fearful little pussies, just like the Eurotrash Colonial dictators we escaped and spent DECADES making fun of.  Why do we want to be them?

Fuck it.  Some poor woman from a backward as hell province in Guatemala has the testicular fortitude to pack up what’s left of her shit and bring her kids thousands of miles on top of trains, in the back of trucks, dealing with rape, more violence, etc. just for a chance to start over?  That woman’s  got fucking balls.  I WANT HER as a citizen.  Not some pampered trust fund princess who took a two week ‘church trip’ to help those poor people in Haiti so she’s have a good resume filler to get into UPenn or Columbia or NYU. 

Build a bigger wall, add more security, and ADD MORE PROCESSORS AND JUDGES.

This is a stupid made up problem so that the left can feel good about opposing Trump and the right can feel good about being ‘tough on crime’ and the 'rule of law'.  We’re a country of 340 MILLION people with a low birthtrate that’s only being propped up by immigration.  We could absorb every abused woman willing to make the trip and no one would notice.  Why do we want to be fucking Japan?  WHYY!!!?!?!?!

I don’t want to be like the rest of the world.  I want the competition and the grind and the pain and the failure that comes from competition.  I'm EXHAUSTED by people putting their thumb on the scales and then pretending it's for 'the greater good'.  

/rantoff

 

 

 

100% agree with all of that.  ALL OF IT. As long as they come in the front door and don’t sneak in and break our laws.  

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Is it true that Ivanka's company has donated 2000 sewing machines to the detention center so the kids wouldn't be so bored?

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10 minutes ago, Sean said:

If my wife is any indication, this issue is likely to get a lot of women to the polls. She is absolutely incensed over this policy. She’s typically fairly apolitical, but this really has her riled up. 

So honest question.....  what is she going to vote for at the polls instead as a result?  For more Democrats who are going to ignore the problem and look the other way while these mothers are risking mile dangerous journey?  Because doing nothing is why these people are continue to floc by the thousands. 

Sadlly the current crop of GOPers are no better. This cannot all be about immigration enforcement. The closest we came to fixing this was under Bush Jr and the Ds and the unions blocked his comprehensive immigration reform push. So you guys have yourselves to thank for this current mess.

 

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8 hours ago, cmilliken said:

Personally, I’m in favor of a more open immigration policy.  I’m particularly in favor of giving preference to “christian-ish” east African countries, not because I give a shit about the religion but because I do give a shit that they have an understanding of English as a language and generic ‘western style’ democracies.  I think that helps with integration which is one of the areas where the European model has failed.

I don’t want to mimic Europe.

/ranton

I don’t want quotas where wealthy and ‘ivy educated’ gets priority.  They don’t need America.  The great American experiment was the belief that your past didn’t define your future.  You COULD get ahead and improve your lot by grit and determination.  The elite LOVE to hold on to the past.  They are ANTI-AMERICAN dream.  I don’t want dynasties.

Know who likes Caste Systems and hard immigration limits complete with ‘second class’ systems of partial citizenship?  Almost everyone else.  Japan?  Check.  China?  Yup, them too.  India?  Check.  Hell, they wrote the book.  Europe?  Check.  Feudal systems for the win!  Know who’s been moving that way in the last 20 years?  Yea.. America.  Yea US.  We’ve become fearful little pussies, just like the Eurotrash Colonial dictators we escaped and spent DECADES making fun of.  Why do we want to be them?

Fuck it.  Some poor woman from a backward as hell province in Guatemala has the testicular fortitude to pack up what’s left of her shit and bring her kids thousands of miles on top of trains, in the back of trucks, dealing with rape, more violence, etc. just for a chance to start over?  That woman’s  got fucking balls.  I WANT HER as a citizen.  Not some pampered trust fund princess who took a two week ‘church trip’ to help those poor people in Haiti so she’s have a good resume filler to get into UPenn or Columbia or NYU. 

Build a bigger wall, add more security, and ADD MORE PROCESSORS AND JUDGES.

This is a stupid made up problem so that the left can feel good about opposing Trump and the right can feel good about being ‘tough on crime’ and the 'rule of law'.  We’re a country of 340 MILLION people with a low birthtrate that’s only being propped up by immigration.  We could absorb every abused woman willing to make the trip and no one would notice.  Why do we want to be fucking Japan?  WHYY!!!?!?!?!

I don’t want to be like the rest of the world.  I want the competition and the grind and the pain and the failure that comes from competition.  I'm EXHAUSTED by people putting their thumb on the scales and then pretending it's for 'the greater good'.  

/rantoff

 

 

 

Very well put. I too have noticed a feudal system taking shape. The lords own the government at this point. All they have to do is keep the serfs fighting against each other and they will maintain ownership. 

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So honest question.....  what is she going to vote for at the polls instead as a result?  For more Democrats who are going to ignore the problem and look the other way while these mothers are risking mile dangerous journey?  Because doing nothing is why these people are continue to floc by the thousands. 

Sadlly the current crop of GOPers are no better. This cannot all be about immigration enforcement. The closest we came to fixing this was under Bush Jr and the Ds and the unions blocked his comprehensive immigration reform push. So you guys have yourselves to thank for this current mess.

 

I think she’s more motivated to vote against rather than for, and she blames Trump and Republican sycophants in Congress. This policy is definitely her #1 issue, and no doubt she’s not alone. She’s a mother after all, and you don’t want to get between mothers and children. 

Don’t get me wrong, she is definitely not a fan of open borders, it’s this vile treatment of families. 

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On 5/29/2018 at 1:14 AM, Shortforbob said:

it's not the point.

the point is that for some reason and in some cases governments are willing to provide years of support to any number of unproductive children. I wasn.t even given any identity docs. Just one of four on a single document issued to my father.

Its kind of curious, some people got off the boat and simply disappeared into the city with their kids.

I probably only existed because I was registered for school.

we were not counted in any yearly quota, my parents could have brought ten kids with them. So it can,t have anything to do with population control.

So what's all the fuss about undocumented kids?

People don’t want to pay for them.   Immigration is great when there is a need for more people.  When there isn’t they are a burden.

i think we should put them on a ship and drop them all off in Australia.  They love illegal immigrants there so much they provide private islands for them to live.  Sounds like heaven.

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1 hour ago, Rok Dog said:

People don’t want to pay for them.   Immigration is great when there is a need for more people.  When there isn’t they are a burden.

i think we should put them on a ship and drop them all off in Australia.  They love illegal immigrants there so much they provide private islands for them to live.  Sounds like heaven.

3% unemployment = need

not enough babies = need

working population going To be swamped by retirees = need

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UNITED STATES 
HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL MUSEUM 
CENTER FOR ADVANCED HOLOCAUST STUDIES 
Children and the Holocaust 

Foreword 


Well over a million children were murdered in the Holocaust. In addition to  
Jewish children, Romani children, institutionalized children, and handicapped children 
also were killed. Among Jews, the toll on children was particularly heavy. 
Although all 
Jews were marked for death, only six–eleven percent of Jewish children survived  
versus thirty-three percent of adults. Children, like their families, were persecuted for  
racial, religious, or politicalreasons in ghettos; concentration, transit, labor, and  
extermination camps; foreign lands to which they escaped, often without their parents; 
and in hiding. 

Although their young were silenced forever, we can still hear some of these children through the rare bits of writing they left behind. Such is the case with fifteen-year-old Dawid Sierakowiak; an October 1939 entry in his Lodz ghetto diary  
notes: “The work at the square was supervised by a single soldier...with a big stick.  
Using rude words, he told me to fill puddleswith sand. I have never been so humiliated 
in my life as when...I saw the happy, smiling mugs of passersby laughing at our  
misfortune.” The last entry in Dawid’s diary, after over three years of grueling decline 
into starvation and disease, reads as a deadly premonition: “There is really no way out 
of this for us.” Dawid Sierakowiak died in the ghetto in August 1943. None of his family survived. 

More often, the words detailing the fates of children came from their murderers. At the end of October 1941, the RomanianMilitary Commander of Chisinau  
(Kishinev), Bessarabia, reported to the Military Governor of the province:  “I have the  
honor to inform you that on October 31 the last major transport of Jews (from the Chisinau ghetto) was dispatched. The orphanage with 38 children, including four still at the breast and the rest from one to six years old, will be evacuated on Monday, the 3rd 
of November.” They were sent to Transnistria. Only an echo of their existence  
remains. 
On September 4, 1942, Chaim Rumkowski, Elder of the Jews in the Lodz  
Ghetto, delivered one of the most infamous speeches of his or any other time: “Brothers 
and sisters, hand them over to me! Fathers and mothers, give me your children!”
 

Almost all the Lodz ghetto children under the age of ten were taken away and murdered. 


https://www.ushmm.org/m/pdfs/20060313-children-holocaust-symposium.pdf#page=5&zoom=auto,-31,729 

 
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9 hours ago, Sean said:

I think she’s more motivated to vote against rather than for, and she blames Trump and Republican sycophants in Congress. This policy is definitely her #1 issue, and no doubt she’s not alone. She’s a mother after all, and you don’t want to get between mothers and children. 

Don’t get me wrong, she is definitely not a fan of open borders, it’s this vile treatment of families. 

That’s what I figured. And I don’t mean that in a bad way. I just don’t like the vote against something. Because it means usually that you are unable to articulate what it is that you want instead.

What we should ALL be doing instead is making our representatives figure out a compromise that achieves a goal. Instead we get the against and for SOMEONE instead of the issues themselves. And that creates extremes such that is pleases one side a lot and pisses off the other side a lot. To the point where they vote against and then once they get into power they put something at the extreme opposite in place to the point where the other side is really pissed off and then we do the cycle all over again. And the extremes keep getting worse as a result. 

So fine. Your wife is entitled to vote against. But until she can articulate what it is she actually wants in its place, IMHO she is simply contributing to the problem and the ever divisive cycles.  My $.02

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12 hours ago, Sean said:

If my wife is any indication, this issue is likely to get a lot of women to the polls. She is absolutely incensed over this policy. She’s typically fairly apolitical, but this really has her riled up. 

Did you tell her that we all already know which way NY's electoral votes will go next time, with or without her help?

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Did you tell her that we all already know which way NY's electoral votes will go next time, with or without her help?

Maybe I should tell her not to bother to vote then eh?

Do you bother to vote for your Libertarian candidates?

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11 minutes ago, Sean said:

Maybe I should tell her not to bother to vote then eh?

Do you bother to vote for your Libertarian candidates?

I do, and I do it in FL, where it might matter.

Why someone in a place like NY, where it can't possibly matter, would consider limiting herself to Duopoly choices mystifies me.

So to Jeff's point, she can probably find someone she wants to vote FOR...

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3 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

So to Jeff's point, she can probably find someone she wants to vote FOR...

And I'm sure she will. My point is, Trump's behavior, I believe, is motivating apolitical people to get involved in the process. it's not that complicated. 

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18 minutes ago, Sean said:

And I'm sure she will. My point is, Trump's behavior, I believe, is motivating apolitical people to get involved in the process. it's not that complicated. 

I'm sure that's sometimes true. I hope so anyway. You don't have to look too hard to find apathy about his powers though.

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24 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

The greatest nation on earth, warts and all.

Nah. That would be Monaco.

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He really is a POS. Basically creating the problem, blaming Democrats with a lie, all as a negotiating tactic. His supports should be ashamed. We know he’s not capable of feeling shame.

kUuht00m_bigger.jpg
 
 
 

Democrats can fix their forced family breakup at the Border by working with Republicans on new legislation, for a change! This is why we need more Republicans elected in November. Democrats are good at only three things, High Taxes, High Crime and Obstruction. Sad!

 

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2 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

C5BD0D01-DF95-4FE6-A3F2-6C45E251EE09.jpeg

I'm amazed to see that signboard in front of a Baptist church. Is this from one of those websites you can type in your own words and have it appear on a church signboard?

All that aside, I completely agree with the sentiment.

-DSK

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What I disagree with is the "we." 

We the people do not agree with this separation. Same with incarceration of the families under the Dems. 

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2 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

What I disagree with is the "we." 

We the people do not agree with this separation. Same with incarceration of the families under the Dems. 

Incarcerating families was bad. Separating families? Nazis do that shit.

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Yes indeed. 

Where is the leader to stop this?

I cannot believe we will let this stand.

This is far beyond constitutional issues. It's evil, plain and simple.

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Just now, Blue Crab said:

Yes indeed. 

Where is the leader to stop this?

I cannot believe we will let this stand.

This is far beyond constitutional issues. It's evil, plain and simple.

Maybe short-timer Ryan will grow a pair. Turtle? Doubtful.

supremes? Probably need the state of Texas to file an emergency suit. Will they?

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53 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

I'm amazed to see that signboard in front of a Baptist church. Is this from one of those websites you can type in your own words and have it appear on a church signboard?

All that aside, I completely agree with the sentiment.

-DSK

Check out the website on the board. It is not Southern Baptist, it is from the land of Superior Knowledge. I think it is legit. 

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21 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Absolutely. 

Maybe. Trumps basically doing what he said he would do. Lots of people support this. His approval ratings are rising, as the righties point out frequently.

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These images are so devastating for the GOP he said....while doing nothing about it. 

GOP fears midterms backlash from breaking up families at the border

Source: NBC News

WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump's policy of taking immigrant children from their parents at the southern border may have been designed to push Democrats to the negotiating table in Congress — but it could end up costing Republican lawmakers. 

"Democrats can fix their forced family breakup at the Border by working with Republicans on new legislation, for a change!" Trump wrote on Twitter Saturday. "This is why we need more Republicans elected in November." 

But the policy, which has separated some 2,000 children from their parents in just six weeks, could have the opposite effect as anxious Republican lawmakers fear voters may see their party as heartless on immigration and punish them for it in November. And Democrats are driving home that message in emails to supporters and by organizing trips to detention centers. 

The issue will "absolutely" be a factor in the midterm elections this fall, said a GOP operative working to elect Republicans to Congress, adding that "the images are devastating" for the GOP. 



Read more: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/gop-fears-midterms-backlash-breaking-families-border-n883706 

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Apparently it was all Steven Miller’s idea. Figures. What a fucking snake that guy is. 

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I seem to recall a very large Rightie brouhaha for a kid named Gonzalez. That was 1 kid. Now 2000 and Meh? Family values party my ass. 

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Maybe. Trumps basically doing what he said he would do. Lots of people support this. His approval ratings are rising, as the righties point out frequently.

Somewhere out there is a traditional conservative who isn’t a white nationalist racist or race baiting piece of shit.  McCain has timed out, I’m afraid, but he is not alone in his opposition to this crap. 

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36 minutes ago, Sean said:

Apparently it was all Steven Miller’s idea. Figures. What a fucking snake that guy is. 

My response to hearing about this for the first time was “this has Stephen Miller written all over it.”

USA 2018: Concentration camps for brown children. MAGA!

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18 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:
1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Maybe. Trumps basically doing what he said he would do. Lots of people support this. His approval ratings are rising, as the righties point out frequently.

Somewhere out there is a traditional conservative who isn’t a white nationalist racist or race baiting piece of shit.  McCain has timed out, I’m afraid, but he is not alone in his opposition to this crap. 

Nah. "Conservative" no longer means anything, other than "I hate most people who aren't just like me." There are a lot of undercurrents, such as hating brown people, poor people, thinking, etc etc. The people who were "conservative" 25 years ago either have gotten off the bus by now, or they were always motivated by some degree of hatred of "those people" and that has grown on them.

"Republican" is no longer a political party in the sense that it has consistent policy goals or ideology. It exists for the sake of it's own power, and the enrichment of it's patrons. On the grass-roots level, to the average voter, it's a tribe.

Is President Trump doing what he said he'd do? Has he locked her up? Built the wall? Banned Muslims? Repealed ObamaCare? He's certainly locking up a lot of brown people, but as for preventing the immigrant rape & murder problem, I suggest that he's not solving the problem at all unless these illegal-immigrant (maybe illigrant?) rapists & murderers are all under 12 years old.

-DSK

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44 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Nah. "Conservative" no longer means anything, other than "I hate most people who aren't just like me." There are a lot of undercurrents, such as hating brown people, poor people, thinking, etc etc. The people who were "conservative" 25 years ago either have gotten off the bus by now, or they were always motivated by some degree of hatred of "those people" and that has grown on them.

"Republican" is no longer a political party in the sense that it has consistent policy goals or ideology. It exists for the sake of it's own power, and the enrichment of it's patrons. On the grass-roots level, to the average voter, it's a tribe.

Is President Trump doing what he said he'd do? Has he locked her up? Built the wall? Banned Muslims? Repealed ObamaCare? He's certainly locking up a lot of brown people, but as for preventing the immigrant rape & murder problem, I suggest that he's not solving the problem at all unless these illegal-immigrant (maybe illigrant?) rapists & murderers are all under 12 years old.

-DSK

I disagree.  There are still principled conservatives, they just have no voice in the GOP, nor have they for some time.  What you describe is the Republican Party, not conservatives.  

Irrespective of that, it matters not, because there is nobody in either group willing to speak out against the Most Humble Man in the GOP.  

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9 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Check out the website on the board. It is not Southern Baptist, it is from the land of Superior Knowledge. I think it is legit. 

Website says it is the Madison Avenue Baptist church in New York City.  Been around since 1848.

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8 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Back when separating families was bad:

elian-gonzalez.jpg

The government was sending him back to his father in that case, not taking him away.  The sin was sending him to a democRAT country.  

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1 minute ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The government was sending him back to his father in that case, not taking him away.  The sin was sending him to a democRAT country.  

I recall a bit of Rightie Fauxtrage

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

I recall a bit of Rightie Fauxtrage

Of course  There was great consternation because the deciderer was a democRAT and his AG spoiled a chance to use a little kid as a tool to score a propaganda win by the folks in Little Havana.  There was confusion over the family values issue, for the folks who wanted to keep the boy separate from his father.  

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Kudos to the First Lady and former First Lady Laura Bush for speaking out.  In an era when manly virtue is so celebrated, how ironic is it that the Republicans with the biggest balls are proper, demure First Ladies?  

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"For those seeking asylum at ports of entry, we have continued the policy from previous Administrations and will only separate if the child is in danger, there is no custodial relationship between 'family' members, or if the adult has broken a law"....Kirstjen Nielsen

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Dog said:

So, are you implying that these circumstances are comparable to what’s happening now? 

From your link -

the photos were taken in 2014, when the Obama administration faced "an influx of unaccompanied minors who showed up at the border, fleeing violence from Central America."

Another former Obama official, Cecilia Muñoz, who served as the director of the White House Domestic Policy Council, offered a similar explanation to NPR on Tuesday. 

"In 2014, we saw an enormous spike compared to what usually happens every year, in the number of kids crossing alone into the United States," she said. "And we didn't have enough shelter facilities, because we had a huge increase, so kids ended up piling up in Border Patrol lock-ups, which are no places for children."

Edit to add -

He added that the pictures had been taken while the government was trying to "move those children out of those shelters as fast as humanly possible and connect them with their parents, most of whom were already in the United States."

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5 minutes ago, Sean said:

So, are you implying that these circumstances are comparable to what’s happening now? 

From your link -

the photos were taken in 2014, when the Obama administration faced "an influx of unaccompanied minors who showed up at the border, fleeing violence from Central America."

Another former Obama official, Cecilia Muñoz, who served as the director of the White House Domestic Policy Council, offered a similar explanation to NPR on Tuesday. 

"In 2014, we saw an enormous spike compared to what usually happens every year, in the number of kids crossing alone into the United States," she said. "And we didn't have enough shelter facilities, because we had a huge increase, so kids ended up piling up in Border Patrol lock-ups, which are no places for children."

Edit to add -

He added that the pictures had been taken while the government was trying to "move those children out of those shelters as fast as humanly possible and connect them with their parents, most of whom were already in the United States."

Are you refuting Gov's meme holding that you're an asshole if you put kids in cages for crossing an imaginary line on a big rock floating in space?

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12 minutes ago, Sean said:

So, are you implying that these circumstances are comparable to what’s happening now? 

 

Dog using an apples to oranges fallacy?  What are the odds of that?

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10 minutes ago, Dog said:

Are you refuting Gov's meme holding that you're an asshole if you put kids in cages for crossing an imaginary line on a big rock floating in space?

Pretty weak response there Doggie. We expect better from you. 

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1 minute ago, Sean said:

Pretty weak response there Doggie. We expect better from you. 

Speaking of weak.

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6 minutes ago, Dog said:

Speaking of weak.

Oooh - I’m crushed

edit -

why don’t you go ahead and actually address the question I posed?

Edited by Sean

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31 minutes ago, Dog said:

Speaking of weak.

It’s good to know that @Dog supports Trumps non-policy Policy of separating families. What a good little fascist.

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by: JUAN COLE 
06/18/2018 

Separating children from their parents, as Trump, Sessions and their myrmidons are doing, is monstrous and has been characteristic of the biggest dictators of the modern era. Here are a few cases in case you don’t believe me: 

1. Stalin’s police used to designate some Soviet citizens as “enemies of the people” and then would take their children from those families. Some so designated who had their families confiscated were Jews. 

2. Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge in Cambodia in the 1970s, 1980s: 

Every family that lived in the cities was forced by Khmer Rouge soldiers to work in the fields in the countryside. This was the time in which husbands and wives, mothers, fathers and their children, and brothers and sisters were all separated from each other. 

3. Under Spanish dictator Francisco Franco, Catholic hospitals were encouraged to steal babies from leftist families at the hospital, telling the parents they were stillborn, and then to give the infants to right wing families to raise. 

4. Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi dictator, expelled tens of thousands of Iraqis of Iranian heritage as marked by their family names. In some instances, Saddam kept the children but expelled the parents: 

“Many Shi’a refugees from southern Iraq testified about the forcible separation of their families during the early years of the Iran-Iraq war, when the Baath regime summarily deported tens of thousands of Shi’a to Iran on the grounds that they were of “Iranian origin.” 

5. The Burmese military junta has separated Muslim children from their families, as part of the ongoing attempt by the Buddhists to expel the Muslims. 

6 And, yes, Hitler separated children from their families on a large scale. In some instances, he had children with blonde hair and blue eyes born into “Slavic” families kidnapped and given to a German family to raise Aryan. 

 

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Trump's surrogates struggle to defend his grotesque border policy

The administration did not have the nerve to put the vice president or any Cabinet official out on the Sunday shows to defend its “zero tolerance” policy and the result mass separation of children from their families at the border. You did not see Stephen Miller out there, nor the White House official who told The Post that it was a great idea to use kids to extract immigration concessions from Congress. Instead, the administration sent out counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway, a woman who has demonstrated time and time again she will say anything — no matter how preposterous — to defend this president. 

Her performance — and that is what we should call it — on “Meet the Press” was stunningly disingenuous. She shed crocodile tears for the immigrant kids and invoked her own Catholicism to demonstrate how concerned she was about the children her boss is snatching away from the arms of their parents. She blamed the Democrats, the courts and even lack of money. This cowardly non-defense suggests that she knows the policy is wrong but hasn’t the nerve to call for its end: 

Evasion, denial and blame-shifting. You’d think she didn’t work in the White House and couldn’t tell her boss to reverse course.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2018/06/18/trumps-surrogates-struggle-to-defend-his-grotesque-border-policy/?utm_term=.8857625464a8

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The number of children caged in concentration camps under Trump's new policy could reach 30,000 by end of August. Republican Family Values.

Trump administration could be holding 30,000 border kids by August, officials say

Washington Examiner 
by Anna Giaritelli | June 18, 2018 08:23 AM 

The Trump administration could be holding 30,000 illegal immigrant children by the end of August as a result of its push to enforce federal immigration laws, which has led to the separation of children from their parents and guardians as those adults are prosecuted. A senior administration official who asked not to be identified said the Department of Health and Human Services has been taking in about 250 children per day in recent weeks. HHS is the agency that is taking in children when they are separated from their families. 

An HHS official added that the agency expects to be taking about 250 kids each day at least for the next two months. If that estimate holds, HHS could be caring for 18,500 more children by the end of August.The HHS official said as of Friday, HHS was already holding 11,500 children, which means the total could hit 30,000 by August. 


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/us-could-be-holding-30-000-border-kids-by-august-officials?_amp=true

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

by: JUAN COLE 
06/18/2018 

Separating children from their parents, as Trump, Sessions and their myrmidons are doing, is monstrous and has been characteristic of the biggest dictators of the modern era. Here are a few cases in case you don’t believe me: 

1. Stalin’s police used to designate some Soviet citizens as “enemies of the people” and then would take their children from those families. Some so designated who had their families confiscated were Jews. 

2. Pol Pot’s Khmer Rouge in Cambodia in the 1970s, 1980s: 

Every family that lived in the cities was forced by Khmer Rouge soldiers to work in the fields in the countryside. This was the time in which husbands and wives, mothers, fathers and their children, and brothers and sisters were all separated from each other. 

3. Under Spanish dictator Francisco Franco, Catholic hospitals were encouraged to steal babies from leftist families at the hospital, telling the parents they were stillborn, and then to give the infants to right wing families to raise. 

4. Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi dictator, expelled tens of thousands of Iraqis of Iranian heritage as marked by their family names. In some instances, Saddam kept the children but expelled the parents: 

“Many Shi’a refugees from southern Iraq testified about the forcible separation of their families during the early years of the Iran-Iraq war, when the Baath regime summarily deported tens of thousands of Shi’a to Iran on the grounds that they were of “Iranian origin.” 

5. The Burmese military junta has separated Muslim children from their families, as part of the ongoing attempt by the Buddhists to expel the Muslims. 

6 And, yes, Hitler separated children from their families on a large scale. In some instances, he had children with blonde hair and blue eyes born into “Slavic” families kidnapped and given to a German family to raise Aryan. 

 

Please.... In those cases the separation was imposed by the state. Illegal immigrant families here can remain intact simply by returning home. It gets complicated when the adult applies for asylum which usually takes longer than the 20 days children can be held per the Flores Consent Decree. Many  do apply for asylum even if they can't qualify (very few can) knowing their children cannot be held more than 20 days thereby forcing the government's hand.

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

It’s good to know that @Dog supports Trumps non-policy Policy of separating families. What a good little fascist.

They seem to be muy simpatico on pretty much every issue of policy.  I would like to know of any policy issue with which Dog disagrees with the Pride of the GOP but don't think for a second that he supports him!  

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3 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

They seem to be muy simpatico on pretty much every issue of policy.  I would like to know of any policy issue with which Dog disagrees with the Pride of the GOP but don't think for a second that he supports him!  

I support the enforcement of our immigration laws....do you?

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9 minutes ago, Dog said:

Please.... In those cases the separation was imposed by the state. Illegal immigrant families here can remain intact simply by returning home. It gets complicated when the adult applies for asylum which usually takes longer than the 20 days children can be held per the Flores Consent Decree. Many  do apply for asylum even if they can't qualify (very few can) knowing their children cannot be held more than 20 days thereby forcing the government's hand.

Same as this case. This is a new policy conjured up by Stephen Miller, neo-Nazi, that he sold Trump on. He has even bragged about it. 

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Just now, RKoch said:

Same as this case. This is a new policy conjured up by Stephen Miller, neo-Nazi, that he sold Trump on. He has even bragged about it. 

Bullshit....The cases are totally different and one has to have his head firmly up his ass not to see it.

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3 minutes ago, Dog said:

I support the enforcement of our immigration laws....do you?

No, you support throwing brown-skinned children, who have done nothing except accompany their parents, into concentration camps. Now be a good German and heil your gropenfurher. 

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2 minutes ago, RKoch said:

No, you support throwing brown-skinned children, who have done nothing except accompany their parents, into concentration camps. Now be a good German and heil your gropenfurher. 

Oh fuck off...You have fucking lost you mind.

You diminish actual atrocities with this stupidity.

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8 minutes ago, Dog said:

I support the enforcement of our immigration laws....do you?

That's an interesting topic too.  I do not support concentration camps for people (especially children) who do not look like me.  We tried that.  

As to my support for immigration reform and enforcement, I have stated it time and time again, but go ahead and make up whatever straw man you want.  

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