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So i just got an email with an invitation to Saint Tropez for the unveiling on June 11th. I'll be sailing the Baltic then but i think it's pretty cool Nautor is making a 36 again and we've got a couple of weeks to speculate. Juan K or Frers? Daysailor or racer/cruiser? Hot or not?

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Sounds cool. Judging by the success of the 50 it will probably be a Juan K design. 

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1 hour ago, willp14335 said:

Sounds cool. Judging by the success of the 50 it will probably be a Juan K design. 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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2 hours ago, willp14335 said:

Sounds cool. Judging by the success of the 50 it will probably be a Juan K design. 

Success ? There is only one in the US.

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The US is not the only sailing venue in the world. They have sold many in Europe. 

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image.png.71149db4055b71aad71438a19ffeca3e.png

So, judging by the impression sketch, a flush deck day boat type of thing. Very different from the trad Swan racer/cruiser.

Bet Melges are going to be pissed off. Why buy a 40 when you can get this and race at Costa Smeralda. Plus overlap with the IC37.

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59 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Isn't it already dead?

Yeah, closed up shop in 2017.  All 42s now race IRC.

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The 125 is very interesting from a design and engineering perspective, but it won't be able to compete in some races like Sydney to Hobart, which I think kind of defeats the point. It will be cool to see it though. 

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On 5/30/2018 at 8:16 AM, willp14335 said:

The US is not the only sailing venue in the world. They have sold many in Europe. 

how many?

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Now that's an interesting question. Swan say they have sold 21 and can even give you boat names and sail numbers. Does that mean there really are 21 boats out there complete with owners and crews ? Unlikely.

The most recent Swan 50 regatta 3 weeks ago in Palma only managed 7 starters. You also have to be a little suspicious about all the Russian boat names and sail numbers. Most times Russian owners are pretty scarce in keelboat fleets.

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On 5/31/2018 at 10:33 AM, savoir said:

Now that's an interesting question. Swan say they have sold 21 and can even give you boat names and sail numbers. Does that mean there really are 21 boats out there complete with owners and crews ? Unlikely.

The most recent Swan 50 regatta 3 weeks ago in Palma only managed 7 starters. You also have to be a little suspicious about all the Russian boat names and sail numbers. Most times Russian owners are pretty scarce in keelboat fleets.

I think they have only completed 18 hulls so far; I know hull no 19 Proxflyer is being finished up now at the yard.  15 boats are registered so far for the Swan Cup in September.  Reality is not every boat you sell will be raced in the class; look at the numbers for the Classe Mini.  But of course your conspiracy theory about them having sold no boats and it all being a clever cover-up is more entertaining than the truth.

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15 entries eh ? So how come YCCS only records 4 entries as of May 31. Sloppy bookkeeping perhaps ?

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To be honest, I'm not sure.  The class posted last week:

 

The Nations Trophy 2017 saw more than 10 ClubSwan 50s on the starting line, and racing day after day to see who the strongest would be! 
This year, more than 15 Clubswan50s will be together for the first ever World Championship!
#swanodracing #clubswan50 #fullcarbon #rsc #juank

The Swan Cup this year is functioning as the first World Championship for the class.  I guess we'll see in September.

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1 hour ago, frede said:

I think they have only completed 18 hulls so far; I know hull no 19 Proxflyer is being finished up now at the yard.  15 boats are registered so far for the Swan Cup in September.  Reality is not every boat you sell will be raced in the class; look at the numbers for the Classe Mini.  But of course your conspiracy theory about them having sold no boats and it all being a clever cover-up is more entertaining than the truth.

Why do you think the boat did not catch on outside of Europe? Lack of belief in the class, exchange rates or???

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There's at least one Monaco based team that has 2-3 boats in it's 'training stable' but takes just one of these to regattas.

That will account for some of the discrepancy between the build numbers and regatta entries.

Also there are a few Palma based boats that are being used more casually as cruiser/racers and only doing the occassional local regatta rather than going for the full arms-race approach of the top teams.

 

As for why they didn't catch on in the US??? Maybe a lack of confidence from potential owners in there actually being a decent circuit? I'm not sure if Club Swan put any significant effort into trying to establish a US fleet or just focussed on Europe?

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On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 6:37 PM, Parma said:

Why do you think the boat did not catch on outside of Europe? Lack of belief in the class, exchange rates or???

Probably the same reason sailing in general is dead in the US?  We like $50,000 sportboats that can win with $250,000 budgets here in the States.

 

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The Flying Tiger 10M is a good example ... < $50k sportboat.

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On 6/2/2018 at 3:21 AM, NZK said:

There's at least one Monaco based team that has 2-3 boats in it's 'training stable' but takes just one of these to regattas.

That will account for some of the discrepancy between the build numbers and regatta entries.

Also there are a few Palma based boats that are being used more casually as cruiser/racers and only doing the occassional local regatta rather than going for the full arms-race approach of the top teams.

 

As for why they didn't catch on in the US??? Maybe a lack of confidence from potential owners in there actually being a decent circuit? I'm not sure if Club Swan put any significant effort into trying to establish a US fleet or just focussed on Europe?

 

That's a bit tough on Swan. They have been advertising supposed one design regattas in the US for months but the trouble is that no one shows up. The NYYC Regatta starts tomorrow and should be one such Swan sanctioned regatta. There are no 50s or 45s entered and three 42s are entered. Not too long ago the 42s had their own division in this regatta. Where did they all go ?

 

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12 Swan 50s currently on the entry list for the Copa del Rey. Not that I like the boat, or the designer's ego ....

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On 6/2/2018 at 12:21 AM, NZK said:

There's at least one Monaco based team that has 2-3 boats in it's 'training stable' but takes just one of these to regattas.

 

Maybe that's it right there - how many potential buyers opted out when they learned that someone was turning their contemplated and already expensive R/C into a hyper expensive multi boat testing Grand Prix style competition?

I wonder if this sort of thing dealt with in the CS36 or IC37 class rules. I mean, if you want to keep it Corinthian, keep it Corinthian.

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1 hour ago, cms said:

12 Swan 50s currently on the entry list for the Copa del Rey. Not that I like the boat, or the designer's ego ....

Have you ever sailed one?

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I asked the price of the CS50 last year in Valencia... 1,8M€ the racing version.:blink:

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2 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

I asked the price of the CS50 last year in Valencia... 1,8M€ the racing version.:blink:

What’s included?? A full suit of sails, running rigging and decent instruments I hope. 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

What’s included?? A full suit of sails, running rigging and decent instruments I hope. 

I don't know... I was speechless for a while.

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19 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

There's a cheap version though: 1,2M€

oh, that's alright then :wacko:

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17 hours ago, savoir said:

 

That's a bit tough on Swan. They have been advertising supposed one design regattas in the US for months but the trouble is that no one shows up. The NYYC Regatta starts tomorrow and should be one such Swan sanctioned regatta. There are no 50s or 45s entered and three 42s are entered. Not too long ago the 42s had their own division in this regatta. Where did they all go ?

 

All sold to Europe.  At least two of the Swan 42s registered for the NYYC Annual regatta are for sale or have been offered up for sale in the last two years.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2008/Nautor-Club-Swan-42-043-2774945/Newport/RI/United-States#.Wxp_mkgvwuU

 

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4 hours ago, mad said:

What’s included?? A full suit of sails, running rigging and decent instruments I hope. 

 

Monogrammed cupholders ?

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8 minutes ago, savoir said:

 

Monogrammed cupholders ?

Gimballed blender and a cocktail waitress?:P

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50 was originally priced at €850k minus sails. If what is said here is true, that price has doubled.

 I hear the 36 does have something sticking out the side. Should be a bargain!!

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So a 50' boat for 1.8ME / 2.125MUSD but with a racing package that costs 600kE / 700kUSD? Sounds like a lot...wonder if the CS36 pricing will fall somewhere along those lines and if the CS36 is a retooling of the Infiniti 36GT..

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Can’t imagine Juan accepting someone else came up with the idea first! Or being willing to pay the patent! Suspect it is something different to try and prove he knows better.

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I think the IC 37 was the result of a lot of invites to different designers & builders and that the CS 36 is also a result of that prompting. What better way to get a jump on things than to take an existing design and re-vamp / improve on it?

That is, if it really does have a lateral foil.

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Design for the new CS36 has ben unveiled. Looks hot, but what's it going to rate? Not at all what I was expecting from Swan - and that may be part of the statement they are trying to make. Still more questions than answers but not keen on the 50:50 split of pros to amateur in the class rules. Class is destined to be an arms race for owners to hire the best pros. 

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They have not even started building the prototype yet. Things will be very quiet in this class for quite a while.

510 kg weight limit for 6 crew. Tough call. At least it means a certain person from Marblehead won't be buying one.

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38 minutes ago, savoir said:

Launch video here.

Juan K can't get no respect.

 

 

Actually the whole launch presentation was not good. Very surprising for Swan who have some of the best PR and image management going. They could have at least leaned on some of their corporate cousins at Ferragamo to add some showmanship into a major product announcement. The camera for the the web feeds was several rows behind the presenter so there are a lot of heads in the way. There was no control of the audience so it comes of as a bunch of rowdy drunks only half-intrested in the speaker and the other half being interested in the open bar that is clearly behind the camera. There is no control of the background so more drunk sailors are stumbling in and out of the frame behind the TV. The presenter had no control of the slides so they were constantly having to tell someone in the back of the room to advance the slides. Finally, why were they even presenting on a flat screen TV? This was a sales presentation, not a product launch.

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Was there any mention of price in the bits I scrolled past?  That was painful to watch.  I couldn't suffer through it all. 

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And that foredeck looks like an off-camber ice skating rink.  No lifelines forward.  Granted there's a spinnaker takedown line but who's setting and dropping the jib, which from the renderings appears to be hanked on, so someone will need to go forward?

An interesting development overall.  Good on them for pushing the production boat envelope.    

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Negative leeway ?  I think JK needs to rephrase his choice of words.

,

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Wouldn't two straight daggerboards do the same job? Or actually, if there was enough lateral area to the keel fin, wouldn't that do the job? Add a trim tab if you want to and that would be far simpler. The foil case must take up the entire interior.

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Moving that board across through tacks is going to be quite a feat. The boat will be quick to tack and the crew moving the board will have to keep up before it loads. Not easy. On top of that the engineering of the tacking system will have to provide very low friction to give the crew any kind of chance.

Easy to talk about but hard to deliver.

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I guess if you can afford one of those, you can also afford one poor guy who risks his life in the front office of this ... thing ... .

We've seen pro cyclists on AC boats. Maybe we'll see some Olympic ice skaters now?

 

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12 hours ago, savoir said:

The foredeck is going to need a big toerail or it's adios bowman.

shoes with hundreds of little suction cups are part of the class rules

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This is how it looks overpriced future.
Wait soon designers to place IRC or ORC plans for DIY for similar garage high tech projects
And oh man ... sail designers are wating for ' the call'.
Cheers  

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I don't get the retractable prop idea either. That's more expen$ive complexity that you really don't need plus a fancy gizmo that will cost money to fix. If class rules require everyone to have the same S drive then what difference does it make ?

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Between the disappearance of spinnaker poles, furling downwind sails, and now uninhabitable foredecks, it seems like designers are trying to engineer away the bow crew!

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Maybe it was a bowman who ran off with Juan K's girlfriend back in the day. He still hasn't gotten over it.

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23 hours ago, VanFalk said:

Actually the whole launch presentation was not good. Very surprising for Swan who have some of the best PR and image management going. They could have at least leaned on some of their corporate cousins at Ferragamo to add some showmanship into a major product announcement. The camera for the the web feeds was several rows behind the presenter so there are a lot of heads in the way. There was no control of the audience so it comes of as a bunch of rowdy drunks only half-intrested in the speaker and the other half being interested in the open bar that is clearly behind the camera. There is no control of the background so more drunk sailors are stumbling in and out of the frame behind the TV. The presenter had no control of the slides so they were constantly having to tell someone in the back of the room to advance the slides. Finally, why were they even presenting on a flat screen TV? This was a sales presentation, not a product launch.

I was most surprised by all the spelling and grammar mistakes. I can understand translation issues in day to day stuff, but did Swan not bother proofreading their slides?  Even the bullet points don’t line up!  

9024CADC-8409-4040-8A37-F3AC0CDCBCC9.jpeg

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I think this could be

I interesting to for wealthy one design sailors        looking for something more

     I   innovative than the Melges 40 or 36 and only need to shelter in their interior concept.

 

Seriously though. I think there is a lot to like here.  If I ever aged out of the Viper (unlikely because I plan to win the Masters worlds when im 70), this "skimming" concept would interest me a lot and unlike a full foiler, I could bring friends as well as pros. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

I think this could be

I interesting to for wealthy one design sailors        looking for something more

     I   innovative than the Melges 40 or 36 and only need to shelter in their interior concept.

 

Seriously though. I think there is a lot to like here.  If I ever aged out of the Viper (unlikely because I plan to win the Masters worlds when im 70), this "skimming" concept would interest me a lot and unlike a full foiler, I could bring Money  and pros. 

 

 

FIFY,

Parties will be better than anything Melges does.

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Skimming concept ? simply putting sales spin on a product in this case ~ hardly a stand out feature given that many existing designs are of similar displacement, sail area and length. The renderings look Kool though !

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On 6/8/2018 at 11:37 PM, mad said:

Gimballed blender and a cocktail waitress?:P

A gimballed cocktail waitress? 

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17 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

A gimballed cocktail waitress? 

can you do that?????

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No canting keel with additional lifting angle, and small slightly curved asymmetrical board, which fights the straight-lined keel. How will they produce negative leeway? And skimming with maybe max 200 kg of lift? 

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On 6/12/2018 at 3:46 AM, Grinning Ape said:

And that foredeck looks like an off-camber ice skating rink.  No lifelines forward.  Granted there's a spinnaker takedown line but who's setting and dropping the jib, which from the renderings appears to be hanked on, so someone will need to go forward?

An interesting development overall.  Good on them for pushing the production boat envelope.    

not sure they plan to drop the jib or have J1, J2 etc. to change.

from JuanK presentation it seems they might stick to one sail only. 

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There is so many negatives comments ;;;and some a pretty f;;;;g stupid !

Looks like everything is wrong at Nautor ;; Designer , built , price , regattas , presentation  OMG ; How do they stay in business without the help of the SA forum;; 

Swan is still building boats ; Which is good ; They are doing some outside of the box thinking and building for a high end production company ;; that is also good ; 

Ferragamo took a chance on buying the yard ;;; and many years later ;; it is still there in a special kind of niche;

What surprised me really  is the geniuses on this forum are not being hired by Nautor or Juan K ;

Or may be they just run from the mouth ;; foaming like ; Must be some kind of disease :

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On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 3:21 AM, NZK said:

There's at least one Monaco based team that has 2-3 boats in it's 'training stable' but takes just one of these to regattas.

That will account for some of the discrepancy between the build numbers and regatta entries.

Also there are a few Palma based boats that are being used more casually as cruiser/racers and only doing the occassional local regatta rather than going for the full arms-race approach of the top teams.

 

As for why they didn't catch on in the US??? Maybe a lack of confidence from potential owners in there actually being a decent circuit? I'm not sure if Club Swan put any significant effort into trying to establish a US fleet or just foc. ssed on Europe?nm

The exchange rate has been favorable. But the Ferragamos gave up on the US market long ago. Did away with traditional American Swan Regattas / parties etc about when the 42.s came out.  

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3 hours ago, pguillemin said:

There is so many negatives comments ;;;and some a pretty f;;;;g stupid !

Looks like everything is wrong at Nautor ;; Designer , built , price , regattas , presentation  OMG ; How do they stay in business without the help of the SA forum;; 

Swan is still building boats ; Which is good ; They are doing some outside of the box thinking and building for a high end production company ;; that is also good ; 

Ferragamo took a chance on buying the yard ;;; and many years later ;; it is still there in a special kind of niche;

What surprised me really  is the geniuses on this forum are not being hired by Nautor or Juan K ;

Or may be they just run from the mouth ;; foaming like ; Must be some kind of disease :

Sorry to have upset your delicate sensibilities Mr. Ferragamo. 

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3 hours ago, pguillemin said:

There is so many negatives comments ;;;and some a pretty f;;;;g stupid !

Looks like everything is wrong at Nautor ;; Designer , built , price , regattas , presentation  OMG ; How do they stay in business without the help of the SA forum;; 

Swan is still building boats ; Which is good ; They are doing some outside of the box thinking and building for a high end production company ;; that is also good ; 

Ferragamo took a chance on buying the yard ;;; and many years later ;; it is still there in a special kind of niche;

What surprised me really  is the geniuses on this forum are not being hired by Nautor or Juan K ;

Or may be they just run from the mouth ;; foaming like ; Must be some kind of disease :

Just saying if I were one of their European clients who flew into St. Tropez for the product launch and had the kind of wallet to afford a million euro plus 36' sailboat - I would have found this VERY disappointing. The reason why several of us have called out the poor presentation is because Swan are usually so buttoned-up and focused on the little details. I have been to one of the Swan events at YCCS on Virgin Gorda and the management and planning were impeccable.

Something went off the rails with this one. If it were anyone other than Swan they would be laughed out of the room for the rookie errors. The kinds of buyers who are dropping millions of Euros (or Rubles) on new boats, planes, cars, houses... are the kinds of buyers who dont want to see grammatical or formatting errors in your sales presentation. But because it is Swan they have earned the benefit of the doubt and we are all just scratching our heads wondering what went wrong. One final point - because the boat is so out of the norm for the Swan yard and signifieds a new direction for the company, this would have been the time to make sure everything was just right.

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1 hour ago, Disco Stu said:

Sorry to have upset your delicate sensibilities Mr. Ferragamo. 

it reads more like juan k speaks

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