esoxproblem

Melges 24 VS Melges 32 in PHRF

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Does the 24 have a chance against the 32 in PHRF?

It's a lot of seconds per mile, but they are living in different universes upwind... 

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13 hours ago, esoxproblem said:

Does the 24 have a chance against the 32 in PHRF?

It's a lot of seconds per mile, but they are living in different universes upwind... 

Yes in heavier air - not so much in light.  But they are so far apart speed wise that they really should not be in the same batch

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We raced against 2 M32's in our M24 about 6 years ago.  We only corrected out over them in one race.  It was 5-10 the throughout the event.  They just blew our doors off upwind.  This gives you some perspective to how much bigger they are.

543324_10150923272884521_728578926_n.jpg

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The PHRF system is better than nothing in that it allows for dissimilar boats to compete against each other. However, it does not take into account the type of race or venue eg bouy racing vs long distance or upwind/downwind vs Olympic etc.  Moreover, in many races the differences caused by tactical errors often are more punishing than the differences in PHRF.  In a short windward/leeward course one really bad spinnaker hoist or douse can cost you the race. Courses with long downwind legs will favor one type of boat over another. My experience racing in mixed fleets is that generally the boat with the crew that has least tactical mistakes and best execution of tacks/hoists/takedowns is the winner. Look at Charleston Race week results to see large and small/fast and slow boats  up and down the results board, but well crewed boats more consistently fare better.

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How would a Melges 24 do against an Olson 30 (both rate 99 in PHRF-NW) in a buoy race having 7-10 kts wind? That's a race where neither will plane. I would have to give the advantage to the Olson due to water line?

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we race about 4 events a year in PHRF.  there were a couple O30's around and we never had a problem beating them.  sometimes its the indian and sometimes its the arrow.

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I did a bunch of racing an Olson against a M24.  In the Olson we would win about 80 to 90% of the time.  The reason is the 150 the Olson can carry.   Downwind the Olson can just run deep.  The only time the M24 would beat us is in 20+ as they would plain faster and could sail deeper than say 10 to 15 knots of wind.  The Olson was just faster all the way around upwind.  I raced the Olson on SF bay.

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In BC the Olson's had a hard time against the good melges teams and would beat the average sailed m24s.  Through all wind conditions.  The class also included j109, j35, dash34, express 37. The well sailed melges would almost never lose on corrected.  Last to the top mark in breeze and first to bottom mark.  In light air, tack on 5 Deg shifts and work harder. 

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A nice video of us in 11 mile downwind race.   SOAR Inflow race

For about 5min after start we held them off. The 32 gybed away and beat us by more than 5min. We were about 55 min to finish.  The 32 won on corrected.  

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12 hours ago, Hard On The Wind said:

How would a Melges 24 do against an Olson 30 (both rate 99 in PHRF-NW) in a buoy race having 7-10 kts wind? That's a race where neither will plane. I would have to give the advantage to the Olson due to water line?

A well sailed melges is pretty handy in a bunch of conditions. 

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7 hours ago, JimBowie said:

How would the M32 compare to the FE28?

Pretty similiar, I’ve seen it go either way numerous times.

Do you want a simple boat like an FE28r, outboard on a bracket, transom hung rudder & tin rig or do you want to go a bit faster with a lot more hassle, crew, maintenance & costs. 

To further complicate it. Melges are getting pretty cheap! 

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Having sailed 32s for over 10 years. And now downsized to Melges 20s, I would say the fun/speed/excitement/grin factor is not in line with the price of the two boats. Even second hand. I have had more fun, gone almost as fast down wind, with just two other crew. Not seven. And can buy new sails for the 20 - full set, for less than the price of a 32 main. 

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13 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Pretty similiar, I’ve seen it go either way numerous times.

Do you want a simple boat like an FE28r, outboard on a bracket, transom hung rudder & tin rig or do you want to go a bit faster with a lot more hassle, crew, maintenance & costs. 

To further complicate it. Melges are getting pretty cheap! 

Similar?  As in performance?  Should the FE28 be rated same/diff than M32?

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4 hours ago, JimBowie said:

Similar?  As in performance?  Should the FE28 be rated same/diff than M32?

Melges is generally quicker but the FE28r can get a few wins. Depends on conditions. Would think the M32 would rate a lot higher, don’t follow the rule, so dont know how it deals with weight & sail area. 

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