Ishmael

Kicking off the trade wars

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Click on the A symbol on the taskbar of your post and select the purple.

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6 hours ago, Ishmael said:

 

Mary, Queen of Scots!

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58 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Canadians are scary, eh?

Tough as day old marshmallows, eh?

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29 minutes ago, RKoch said:

[purple ]Build a wall, make Canada pay for it.

Money well spent, if you ask me.  

Those of us to the south may be a lost cause, even if we believe in Cascadia.

Weep for us.  Our apologies...

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29 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Click on the A symbol on the taskbar of your post and select the purple.

I have a Ban I, and a U.  No A. 

  • Like 1

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Then you're fucked I guess.

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Guess peep just have to figure out on their own when I'm being sarcastic. 

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Guess peep just have to figure out on their own when I'm being sarcastic. 

Look further to the right, past Font and Size, although Comic Sans in purple is really the sarcasm font. So many guys are colourblind and watching on shitty monitors that they can't see purple from black.

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48 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Look further to the right, past Font and Size, although Comic Sans in purple is really the sarcasm font. So many guys are colourblind and watching on shitty monitors that they can't see purple from black.

Apparently that's not supported on an iPhone.  I got B, I, U, emoj, link embed, and some unidentifed search icon. 

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Look further to the right, past Font and Size, although Comic Sans in purple is really the sarcasm font. So many guys are colourblind and watching on shitty monitors that they can't see purple from black.

It shouldn’t be... it is virtually unreadable on a cell phone screen 

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3 hours ago, RKoch said:

Apparently that's not supported on an iPhone.  I got B, I, U, emoj, link embed, and some unidentifed search icon. 

Flip the phone on its side and it’ll appear, but as Gouv, it’s unreadable on an iPhone etc. 

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6 hours ago, RKoch said:

I have a Ban I, and a U.  No A. 

Like, R? I could like tell you were like being sarcastic there without anything but the underlined U, dude.  

You were, weren’t you?  (Oh, I’m so unsure of myself!)

 I like emojis for my underlying emotional unsaid (but necessarily implied :o (^_^?)) content needs.  Although different brackets might be good. [{<_but a little wierd_>}]

I can’t read purple even on my iPad.

Maybe Jobs was threatened by it? :blink:

Or maybe I’m going fucking colorblind.

On the other hand, implied sarcasm might be good for asymmetrical posting sarcasm warfare.  Why should the anti progressive crowd only have access to mind exploding technology? (Um, :angry:?)

Warning! sarcasm! {______________}  hee! hee!

Warning!  Withering Sarcasm!  / Nope? \  

Maybe we need a Don Rickles emoji?

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Then you're fucked I guess.

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

the underlined A works on my iPad for colors! :lol: Takes forever though.:angry:

 

 

RainboParty :)

 

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On 6/1/2018 at 6:18 AM, Saorsa said:

Or, they can buy steel from the US.

 

Except, you idiot, that the US steel suppliers have ALREADY raised prices to take more profits. The supplier is getting richer and EVERY SINGLE DOWNSTREAM USER in the manufacturing chain is paying more. But guess what, the overseas people who make manufactured goods aren't affected at all.

I'm on a metalwork & manufacturing forum, we've been kicking this about for months. This is utter idiocy.

FKT

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20 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Except, you idiot, that the US steel suppliers have ALREADY raised prices to take more profits. The supplier is getting richer and EVERY SINGLE DOWNSTREAM USER in the manufacturing chain is paying more. But guess what, the overseas people who make manufactured goods aren't affected at all.

I'm on a metalwork & manufacturing forum, we've been kicking this about for months. This is utter idiocy.

FKT

https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/X/financials?p=X

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6 hours ago, mad said:

Flip the phone on its side and it’ll appear, but as Gouv, it’s unreadable on an iPhone etc. 

Bingo!!!! Holy fuck, that would have never occurred to me. 

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4 hours ago, Lying Malarky said:

So the Canadians are going to buy gripens?

Apparently they're going again on the due diligence.

I suspect Boeing might as well not bother with a proposal though.

If history is anything to go by there will be a new generation of fighters online before they make up their fucking minds.

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2 hours ago, RKoch said:

Bingo!!!! Holy fuck, that would have never occurred to me. 

From what I see on news programs on my horizontal aspect ratio TV and Computer monitor it never occurs to very many people.

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Iowa hit hard by Trumps trade war. 

 

Donnelle Eller, deller@dmreg.com Published 12:22 p.m. CT June 1, 2018 

Iowa pork producers already dealing with a 25 percent tariff on U.S. pork exports to China could face another trade hit, with Mexico considering a 20 percent tariff on hams and pork shoulders. 

Growing trade worries have cut pork prices in recent weeks, costing Iowa producers about $560 million, said Dermot Hayes, an Iowa State University economist. 

Mexico is the largest export market for U.S. pork, based on volume. 

Mexico bought $1.5 billion of U.S. pork last year, followed by China-Hong Kong at nearly $1.1 billion. 

The tariffs are "potentially devastating news for Iowa’s pig farmers and the rural Iowa economy," said Gregg Hora, president of the Iowa Pork Producers Association. 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/01/mexico-pork-tariff-trade-war-threats-iowa-producer-losses-trump-steel-canada-china-exports-ham/663212002/

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Canada is hosting the G7 meetings next week. I wonder if we can get enough Canadians interested in mooning the Orange Asshole, if he has the guts to actually appear. He certainly isn't going to be welcomed here. 

Quote

With one week to go before Prime Minister Justin Trudeau hosts President Donald Trump and the other G7 leaders in Quebec’s Charlevoix region, advance meetings of G7 finance and development ministers in Whistler, B.C., show global trade threats are taking over the agenda.

French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire told Canadian reporters Friday that a clear message was delivered to Mr. Mnuchin during the Whistler talks.

 

“On trade this is a G6 plus one,” he said. “We have been attacked by those tariffs. We do not have any other choice but to respond … Friends should speak in a very clear manner to the United States. That is exactly what we did this morning with the Secretary of the Treasury, Steven Mnuchin, and I hope that it will be helpful to have a better G7 at the level of the heads of state next week.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-turmoil-over-trumps-tariffs-prompt-talk-of-g6-plus-one/

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10 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Iowa hit hard by Trumps trade war. 

 

Donnelle Eller, deller@dmreg.com Published 12:22 p.m. CT June 1, 2018 

Iowa pork producers already dealing with a 25 percent tariff on U.S. pork exports to China could face another trade hit, with Mexico considering a 20 percent tariff on hams and pork shoulders. 

Growing trade worries have cut pork prices in recent weeks, costing Iowa producers about $560 million, said Dermot Hayes, an Iowa State University economist. 

Mexico is the largest export market for U.S. pork, based on volume. 

Mexico bought $1.5 billion of U.S. pork last year, followed by China-Hong Kong at nearly $1.1 billion. 

The tariffs are "potentially devastating news for Iowa’s pig farmers and the rural Iowa economy," said Gregg Hora, president of the Iowa Pork Producers Association. 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/01/mexico-pork-tariff-trade-war-threats-iowa-producer-losses-trump-steel-canada-china-exports-ham/663212002/

Oink Oink they should grow beef/chicken the things in demand you know. Those farmers are using America's soil and other stuff to grow food for foreigners, this won't bother the patriots working to feed America.

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There is a bout 10 % deficit in trade between US EU for years, its steady. If your capable to lift the dollar 10% in value there is no problem.

But i am not sure if in this number it does take into account the military spending.
Many staunch allies like the Dutch buy US military stuff like the jets.
Others buy European. 

For the future it looks like US stuff will be out in new orders if possible. Off course the military guys know they are each other biggest allies, but politicians have to take into account the public mood.
You can not publish that US want to ban German cars and then buy US toys for the army....
 

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Iowa hit hard by Trumps trade war. 

 

Donnelle Eller, deller@dmreg.com Published 12:22 p.m. CT June 1, 2018 

Iowa pork producers already dealing with a 25 percent tariff on U.S. pork exports to China could face another trade hit, with Mexico considering a 20 percent tariff on hams and pork shoulders. 

Growing trade worries have cut pork prices in recent weeks, costing Iowa producers about $560 million, said Dermot Hayes, an Iowa State University economist. 

Mexico is the largest export market for U.S. pork, based on volume. 

Mexico bought $1.5 billion of U.S. pork last year, followed by China-Hong Kong at nearly $1.1 billion. 

The tariffs are "potentially devastating news for Iowa’s pig farmers and the rural Iowa economy," said Gregg Hora, president of the Iowa Pork Producers Association. 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/01/mexico-pork-tariff-trade-war-threats-iowa-producer-losses-trump-steel-canada-china-exports-ham/663212002/

Good for them.

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9 minutes ago, LeoV said:

There is a bout 10 % deficit in trade between US EU for years, its steady. If your capable to lift the dollar 10% in value there is no problem.

But i am not sure if in this number it does take into account the military spending.
Many staunch allies like the Dutch buy US military stuff like the jets.
Others buy European. 

For the future it looks like US stuff will be out in new orders if possible. Off course the military guys know they are each other biggest allies, but politicians have to take into account the public mood.
You can not publish that US want to ban German cars and then buy US toys for the army....
 

Not to mention what US troops in Europe spend on the local economy.

 

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Iowa hit hard by Trumps trade war. 

 

Donnelle Eller, deller@dmreg.com Published 12:22 p.m. CT June 1, 2018 

Iowa pork producers already dealing with a 25 percent tariff on U.S. pork exports to China could face another trade hit, with Mexico considering a 20 percent tariff on hams and pork shoulders. 

Growing trade worries have cut pork prices in recent weeks, costing Iowa producers about $560 million, said Dermot Hayes, an Iowa State University economist. 

Mexico is the largest export market for U.S. pork, based on volume. 

Mexico bought $1.5 billion of U.S. pork last year, followed by China-Hong Kong at nearly $1.1 billion. 

The tariffs are "potentially devastating news for Iowa’s pig farmers and the rural Iowa economy," said Gregg Hora, president of the Iowa Pork Producers Association. 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/01/mexico-pork-tariff-trade-war-threats-iowa-producer-losses-trump-steel-canada-china-exports-ham/663212002/

Maybe they'll smarten up and not vote Republican next time.

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10 minutes ago, LeoV said:

There is a bout 10 % deficit in trade between US EU for years, its steady. If your capable to lift the dollar 10% in value there is no problem.

But i am not sure if in this number it does take into account the military spending.
Many staunch allies like the Dutch buy US military stuff like the jets.
Others buy European. 

For the future it looks like US stuff will be out in new orders if possible. Off course the military guys know they are each other biggest allies, but politicians have to take into account the public mood.
You can not publish that US want to ban German cars and then buy US toys for the army....
 

You can publish it, it's a freedom of the press thing.  That doesn't make it true as shown by Trump's actual statement about BMWs being built in Mexico.

The amusing thing is that the European desire for SUVs from BMW will be subject to the EU tariffs since they are built in the US.

 

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47 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Maybe they'll smarten up and not vote Republican next time.

The stupid runs deep in Iowa...

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

The amusing thing is that the European desire for SUVs from BMW will be subject to the EU tariffs since they are built in the US. 

Its a funny world...

Another effect of trade wars, the mighty dollar looses a bit of its attraction, it was a safe haven, but with unpredictability of US gov will loose stature.
It is a good thing for the US, gave them power and influence. Even a 1 % drop in trust will have a bigger influence then all the money won by a trade war...

 

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And if the USD ceases to be the world's reserve currency?

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Maybe they'll smarten up and not vote Republican next time.

I think there are some R voters who have/will wise up to the Cheetolini and his Congressional enablers. No doubt some would continue to cheer him even if he dropped a nuke on Iowa. You can't fix stupid...you can laugh at them or put them on ignore. 

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16 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

We need to light a fire under Mueller.

Why bother, he's a lawyer ? right?

So, he will drag out this cash flow as long as possible, that's what a lawyer does best.. billable hours.......

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8 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Waiving sanctions for Russian aluminum oligarch. I'm sure there's no collusion or quid pro quo.

 http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/trump-administration-eases-sanctions-on-russian-metal-giant.html

I think we've seen there are no real men in Congress. I guess it's time for a female R to stand up and suggest impeachment. Someone unique like, say, Mia Love. Kelly Ayotte? Condi Rice? Timing is everything.

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Leading Economist blasts Trump's "psychopathic" trade war.

Economist calls Trump's new tariffs start of a 'psychopath's trade war'

Economist Jeffrey Sachs issued a strong condemnation of President Trump's trade policies on Friday, calling the new steel and aluminum tariffs the start of a "psychopath's trade war." 

In an op-ed for CNN, Sachs, who runs Columbia University's Center for Sustainable Development, blasted Trump's decision this week to implement stiff tariffs on steel and aluminum imports, a move that angered top U.S. allies including Canada, Mexico and the European Union (EU). 

"Trump's trade actions are blatantly illegal. They are flimsily justified as an act of national security, but this is sheer nonsense," Sachs wrote. 

"By instinct, we strive to make sense of Trump's nonsense, implicitly assuming some hidden strategy," he added. "There is none." 

Sachs predicted that Trump's actions would have an overall negative effect on the U.S. dollar, and would lead to a rapid increase in the nation's debt. 

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/390402-trump-accuses-doj-muellers-office-of-leaking-his-attorneys-letters 

 
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1 hour ago, Remodel said:

And if the USD ceases to be the world's reserve currency?

That's a possibility but realistically nothing has replaced it yet.  The Euro always had that hope but it's got it's own political and economic problems.  They haven't quite got the federation of states things figured out yet.

While the world is all flappy handed and panty wetting over Trump we remain a rich politically stable country.  Reserve currencies aren't declared, they result from a near universal acceptance and a belief in a relatively stable value for the currency.

Trump will exit the stage in 2020 or 2024.  Italy could have another 20 governments in that time.

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Pushback. It's about time.

Quote

Sen. Bob Corker said Saturday that he is working with other Senate Republicans on an effort to "push back" on President Donald Trump's use of authority "in ways never intended and that are damaging to our country and our allies."

Earlier Saturday, the Tennessee Republican tweeted out a pair of articles focusing on the administration's recent announcement that it is imposing steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada, Mexico and the European Union, and some of its other economic interventions that go against traditional free-market Republican orthodoxy. One, a Wall Street Journal opinion piece, argued the tariffs will harm the US economy and American foreign policy. The other, a Washington Post story, mentioned an administration plan to keep coal and nuclear power plants from closing .
In response to the articles, Corker wrote in a tweet, "These two stories feel like something I could have read in a local Caracas newspaper last week, not in America. Venezuela, here WE come!"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/02/politics/corker-trump-tariffs-senate-republicans/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+(RSS%3A+CNN+-+Top+Stories)

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8 hours ago, RKoch said:

Iowa hit hard by Trumps trade war. 

 

Donnelle Eller, deller@dmreg.com Published 12:22 p.m. CT June 1, 2018 

Iowa pork producers already dealing with a 25 percent tariff on U.S. pork exports to China could face another trade hit, with Mexico considering a 20 percent tariff on hams and pork shoulders. 

Growing trade worries have cut pork prices in recent weeks, costing Iowa producers about $560 million, said Dermot Hayes, an Iowa State University economist. 

Mexico is the largest export market for U.S. pork, based on volume. 

Mexico bought $1.5 billion of U.S. pork last year, followed by China-Hong Kong at nearly $1.1 billion. 

The tariffs are "potentially devastating news for Iowa’s pig farmers and the rural Iowa economy," said Gregg Hora, president of the Iowa Pork Producers Association. 

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/money/agriculture/2018/06/01/mexico-pork-tariff-trade-war-threats-iowa-producer-losses-trump-steel-canada-china-exports-ham/663212002/

Of course it's bad for our exporters but the other part of the story is that more expensive pork is bad for the Chinese and Mexican people.

Just like Trump's taxes on them are bad for our people.

Can we start calling tariffs taxes, btw? It's fun to talk about Trump's tax increases.

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7 hours ago, Saorsa said:

You can publish it, it's a freedom of the press thing.  That doesn't make it true as shown by Trump's actual statement about BMWs being built in Mexico.

The amusing thing is that the European desire for SUVs from BMW will be subject to the EU tariffs since they are built in the US.

 

Until bmw opens a plant in greece..... .

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3 minutes ago, Lying Malarky said:

Until bmw opens a plant in greece..... .

How much does a greek urn?

 

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23 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Of course it's bad for our exporters but the other part of the story is that more expensive pork is bad for the Chinese and Mexican people.

Just like Trump's taxes on them are bad for our people.

Can we start calling tariffs taxes, btw? It's fun to talk about Trump's tax increases.

The Chinese and Mexicans will probably just eat mo' chiken. Pork producers will pay the price, and lay off people. EU says they're going to slap stiff tariffs on US spirits, mainly whiskey and rye. A couple more red states hurt by Trump's psychopathic trade war. 

I fail to see any kind of coherent plan to Trumps economic policies. It's just ignorant knee-jerk reactions to lord only knows what. He seems determined to wreck the economy, even fellow Republicans and that bastion of conservatism , The Wall St Journal, are calling out his idiocy. Only the morans are cheering him.

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8 minutes ago, Lying Malarky said:

Until bmw opens a plant in greece..... .

That wouldn't be a bad plan for them. Or Poland...

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2 minutes ago, RKoch said:

The Chinese and Mexicans will probably just eat mo' chiken. Pork producers will pay the price, and lay off people. EU says they're going to slap stiff tariffs on US spirits, mainly whiskey and rye. A couple more red states hurt by Trump's psychopathic trade war. 

I fail to see any kind of coherent plan to Trumps economic policies. It's just ignorant knee-jerk reactions to lord only knows what. He seems determined to wreck the economy, even fellow Republicans and that bastion of conservatism , The Wall St Journal, are calling out his idiocy. Only the morans are cheering him.

Chinese will buy Australian pork. It's part of a package deal with pretty much everything else. ..

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4 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Of course it's bad for our exporters but the other part of the story is that more expensive pork is bad for the Chinese and Mexican people.

That assumes nobody else can or will sell to them at the old price - IOW countries NOT subject to the tariffs.

Want to bet that won't happen? Because if it does, which is likely, you guys simply lose market share but those other countries don't really notice a price difference.

FKT

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25 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That assumes nobody else can or will sell to them at the old price - IOW countries NOT subject to the tariffs.

Want to bet that won't happen? Because if it does, which is likely, you guys simply lose market share but those other countries don't really notice a price difference.

FKT

In the short term, yes, I'd bet that no one really has another billion and a half dollars worth of pork to spare, so prices will go up.

In the long run we're all dead.

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1 minute ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

In the short term, yes, I'd bet that no one really has another billion and a half dollars worth of pork to spare, so prices will go up.

In the long run we're all dead.

But there's no reason to put up with this bullshit while we're living. Fuck Trump and his bizarre posturing. Somebody needs to hold his head under water in the toilet until the bubbles stop.

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4 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

But there's no reason to put up with this bullshit while we're living. Fuck Trump and his bizarre posturing. Somebody needs to hold his head under water in the toilet until the bubbles stop.

I agree, which is why I hope the rest of the world doesn't follow us down this stupid road. Which everyone who is saying it's stupid seems to be following us down... sigh.

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4 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I agree, which is why I hope the rest of the world doesn't follow us down this stupid road. Which everyone who is saying it's stupid seems to be following us down... sigh.

Probably a lot of it is to demonstrate that actions have consequences and if you want to play trade wars, it's really a multi-player multi-level game. I've said it before, it's not the 1950's where the USA was the single richest & highest-tech country left standing. For a hell of a lot of stuff, the rest of us can just work around you and leave you sitting there with your thumb up your arse.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for you guys. You elected an idiot and he can apply tariffs at will, it's your problem. If we can grow our exports to China, we'll do it and if that means your domestic growers take it in the shorts, see the bit about actions having consequences.....

The other forum I spend time on, seems steel both US domestic and imported has jumped in price more than the tariff amount so everyone on the supply side is profiting. The manufacturers of goods inside the USA, OTOH, who take that steel/aluminium and turn it into saleable items, have seen their input costs increase substantially. They either cut their profit margin (if possible) to hold pricing, or increase their selling price. This reduces purchasing power for all the next level consumers all the way to the end of the chain PLUS increases cost of exports, making you even less competitive with the Chinese et al for global markets on manufactured goods.

Oh well I'll just watch from the cheap seats but it isn't going to end well.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Probably a lot of it is to demonstrate that actions have consequences and if you want to play trade wars, it's really a multi-player multi-level game. I've said it before, it's not the 1950's where the USA was the single richest & highest-tech country left standing. For a hell of a lot of stuff, the rest of us can just work around you and leave you sitting there with your thumb up your arse.

It's a multiplayer game in which we all shoot at our feet.

The fact that it's easier to go around us these days makes shooting your own feet in response to our stupidity that much more stupid.

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It may be multiple players, but Australia is not part of the game. We just negotiated a modified tpp, with china, japan, canada and others.

This will hurt the us, multiple times worse than anyone else.

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Probably a lot of it is to demonstrate that actions have consequences and if you want to play trade wars, it's really a multi-player multi-level game. I've said it before, it's not the 1950's where the USA was the single richest & highest-tech country left standing. For a hell of a lot of stuff, the rest of us can just work around you and leave you sitting there with your thumb up your arse.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for you guys. You elected an idiot and he can apply tariffs at will, it's your problem. If we can grow our exports to China, we'll do it and if that means your domestic growers take it in the shorts, see the bit about actions having consequences.....

The other forum I spend time on, seems steel both US domestic and imported has jumped in price more than the tariff amount so everyone on the supply side is profiting. The manufacturers of goods inside the USA, OTOH, who take that steel/aluminium and turn it into saleable items, have seen their input costs increase substantially. They either cut their profit margin (if possible) to hold pricing, or increase their selling price. This reduces purchasing power for all the next level consumers all the way to the end of the chain PLUS increases cost of exports, making you even less competitive with the Chinese et al for global markets on manufactured goods.

Oh well I'll just watch from the cheap seats but it isn't going to end well.

FKT

There's a nice graph here from Statista.

Should all those lines be equal?

Here is a little more info on the EU.

 

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4 hours ago, Lying Malarky said:

It may be multiple players, but Australia is not part of the game. We just negotiated a modified tpp, with china, japan, canada and others.

This will hurt the us, multiple times worse than anyone else.

Actually China is not part of the new TPP being negotiated although there is a very good chance that they will want to do so in the future. The Chinese are very good at seeing a power vacuum and wanting to fill it. Trump is giving China opportunity after opportunity.

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2 hours ago, Saorsa said:

So the first:tallied them, us tax 23,65 Eu tax 25.7, damn what a big difference, reasons enough to start a war..

Second, the US as the same shit tariffs on all kinds of goods too.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/28/u-s-tariffs-vary-a-lot-but-the-highest-duties-tend-to-be-on-imported-clothing/

The mighty Dollar is less worth then an Euro,that is weird, fix that by producing good stuff people wants :), or stop world wide trade, no cobalt, not enough Uranium, not enough high quality steel, etc, build a wall against all imports, stop overseas communicating. We will look in 50 years or so in what state the US is. Maybe a kingdom Trump ?

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American farmers worry they'll pay the price of Trump's trade war

Source: the guardian




The US agriculture industry, often the first to feel the hit of trade disputes, is bracing itself as nations threaten to retaliate 

Dominic Rushe in New York @dominicru 

Sun 3 Jun 2018 01.00 EDT 


America’s farmers are about to start harvesting the wheat crop. Close to 60m tonnes are gathered annually and almost half is usually exported. Where this crop will be sold, though, remains an open question. 

As Donald Trump’s trade war escalates, a lot of farmers are worried. Trump was elected, in part, on a promise to put America’s interests first and crack down on what he characterises as a world trade system rigged against the US. But until recently the president has acted like many of his predecessors – talking tough on the campaign trail but backtracking in the White House. 



All that has changed. Week after week, Trump’s trade talk has seemed to harden. “One of the most concerning things is how this is escalating,” said David Salmonsen, the senior director for congressional relations at the American Farm Bureau Federation, one of US agriculture’s most powerful lobby groups. 

................................................... 

Farmers are often the first to feel the hit in trade disputes that may not involve their own products, said Salmonsen. This time, the scale of the dispute could hardly be worse: US agricultural exports are worth about $140bn a year. Canada and Mexico import about $39bn worth, China’s share is $20bn and the EU around $12bn. All those countries have threatened retaliation over metal tariffs. 

The dispute looks set to escalate. ...............................

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jun/02/trump-trade-war-impact-farming-agriculture-industry 
 

 

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17 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Farmers are often the first to feel the hit in trade disputes that may not involve their own products, said Salmonsen. This time, the scale of the dispute could hardly be worse: US agricultural exports are worth about $140bn a year. Canada and Mexico import about $39bn worth, China’s share is $20bn and the EU around $12bn. All those countries have threatened retaliation over metal tariffs. 

The dispute looks set to escalate. ...............................

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jun/02/trump-trade-war-impact-farming-agriculture-industry 

 

So, Canada, Mexico, China and the EU import just over one half of our agricultural exports!!  Their retaliation is going to seriously fuck over American farmers!

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14 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

So, Canada, Mexico, China and the EU import just over one half of our agricultural exports!!  Their retaliation is going to seriously fuck over American farmers!

Yep. And Id guess most of those farmers are in a Trump-voting red states.

 

image.jpeg

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2 hours ago, LeoV said:

So the first:tallied them, us tax 23,65 Eu tax 25.7, damn what a big difference, reasons enough to start a war..

Second, the US as the same shit tariffs on all kinds of goods too.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/03/28/u-s-tariffs-vary-a-lot-but-the-highest-duties-tend-to-be-on-imported-clothing/

The mighty Dollar is less worth then an Euro,that is weird, fix that by producing good stuff people wants :), or stop world wide trade, no cobalt, not enough Uranium, not enough high quality steel, etc, build a wall against all imports, stop overseas communicating. We will look in 50 years or so in what state the US is. Maybe a kingdom Trump ?

The dollar is 'worth' less than a Euro by design.  When it was first introduced the conversion of the basket of currencies that made it up (all individually at sub-dollar in exchange rates) were established with a goal of $1.10.  for 1999 it averaged $1.09.  Today it is at about $1.17

It has been up and down over the years sometimes higher sometimes lower.  The highest it's ever been is about $1.50 in 2008 but has declined a lot since then.

historical.png?s=EURUSD&v=20180603010000

Right now the EU has about 12000 tariffs imposed.  It's hard to keep track though.  One, because I'm not really interested and two, because some of them are driven by current European agricultural production and, three, because so many of the trade barriers are non-tariff.

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54 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

So, Canada, Mexico, China and the EU import just over one half of our agricultural exports!!  Their retaliation is going to seriously fuck over American farmers!

Folks won't quit eating.  They'll just pay more.

 

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6 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Folks won't quit eating.  They'll just pay more.

 

Celebrating higher taxes again. So republican.

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14 hours ago, RKoch said:

The Chinese and Mexicans will probably just eat mo' chiken. Pork producers will pay the price, and lay off people. EU says they're going to slap stiff tariffs on US spirits, mainly whiskey and rye. A couple more red states hurt by Trump's psychopathic trade war. 

I fail to see any kind of coherent plan to Trumps economic policies. It's just ignorant knee-jerk reactions to lord only knows what. He seems determined to wreck the economy, even fellow Republicans and that bastion of conservatism , The Wall St Journal, are calling out his idiocy. Only the morans are cheering him.

I think he indicated early in the campaign that wrecking the economy would be a good thing as far as managing the debt.  

Nobody is as good at debt, remember?

A ruined economy is also good for violent revolution against groups (and cultures) Trump has already defined.  A very close analogy would be Spinrad’s ‘The Iron Dream’  This general idyll, spread world wide, and then to the stars, I believe, fires Trump’s drive.  

Only Tump can save the world, remember?

edit- Wikipedia gives as good a synopsis as any- warning!  It’s a strange read....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Iron_Dream       

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

American farmers worry they'll pay the price of Trump's trade war

Source: the guardian




The US agriculture industry, often the first to feel the hit of trade disputes, is bracing itself as nations threaten to retaliate 

Dominic Rushe in New York @dominicru 

Sun 3 Jun 2018 01.00 EDT 


America’s farmers are about to start harvesting the wheat crop. Close to 60m tonnes are gathered annually and almost half is usually exported. Where this crop will be sold, though, remains an open question. 

As Donald Trump’s trade war escalates, a lot of farmers are worried. Trump was elected, in part, on a promise to put America’s interests first and crack down on what he characterises as a world trade system rigged against the US. But until recently the president has acted like many of his predecessors – talking tough on the campaign trail but backtracking in the White House. 



All that has changed. Week after week, Trump’s trade talk has seemed to harden. “One of the most concerning things is how this is escalating,” said David Salmonsen, the senior director for congressional relations at the American Farm Bureau Federation, one of US agriculture’s most powerful lobby groups. 

................................................... 

Farmers are often the first to feel the hit in trade disputes that may not involve their own products, said Salmonsen. This time, the scale of the dispute could hardly be worse: US agricultural exports are worth about $140bn a year. Canada and Mexico import about $39bn worth, China’s share is $20bn and the EU around $12bn. All those countries have threatened retaliation over metal tariffs. 

The dispute looks set to escalate. ...............................

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/jun/02/trump-trade-war-impact-farming-agriculture-industry 
 

 

IIRC they voted overwhelmingly for Trump.

Elections have consequences.

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40 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Folks won't quit eating.  They'll just pay more.

Your understanding of the consequences of trade wars is just about what I expected.

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49 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Celebrating higher taxes again. So republican.

Nope, if the EU lowers their agricultural tariffs so can we.

You know, the US hasn't been making unilateral decisions on tariffs for some time.

 

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11 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

IIRC they voted overwhelmingly for Trump.

Elections have consequences.

Nearly every state has agricultural exports, even those who vote blue. However, it looks as if the targets of the retaliatory tariffs are primarily from Trump-voting states. Me thinks the leaders of Canada, Mexico, China, and EU, are a LOT smarter than Trump... targeting his 'base'. Consequences, indeed!

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2 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Nope, if the EU lowers their agricultural tariffs so can we.

You know, the US hasn't been making unilateral decisions on tariffs for some time.

 

Congress has not been a participant in the trade war. It's all on Trump.

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5 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

You know, the US hasn't been making unilateral decisions on tariffs for some time.

Tell that to our softwood lumber producers you ignorant fool.

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1 minute ago, RKoch said:

Nearly every state has agricultural exports, even those who vote blue. However, it looks as if the targets of the retaliatory tariffs are primarily from Trump-voting states. Me thinks the leaders of Canada, Mexico, China, and EU, are a LOT smarter than Trump... targeting his 'base'. Consequences, indeed!

Where will they get their food then? 

Or their Harley's?  OH, those can come from Thailand.

Levi's? &nbsp;Those are already made in China.

Orange Juice?  Most of that (even in the US) already comes from Brazil.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Nearly every state has agricultural exports, even those who vote blue. However, it looks as if the targets of the retaliatory tariffs are primarily from Trump-voting states. Me thinks the leaders of Canada, Mexico, China, and EU, are a LOT smarter than Trump... targeting his 'base'. Consequences, indeed!

Interesting point.

I wonder if we can put on State specific tariffs? :D

25% on Oklahoma watermelons?

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6 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Congress has not been a participant in the trade war. It's all on Trump.

Congress passed the laws that gave those powers to the president.

1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Tell that to our softwood lumber producers you ignorant fool.

We are net importers of softwood mostly from Canada.

Here are some facts from Canada for you. Apparently our last agreement on Softwood expired in 2015. and wasn't renewed.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

Folks won't quit eating.  They'll just pay more.

 

 

NOT! The will buy from other countries, instead of the US.

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3 hours ago, RKoch said:

Nearly every state has agricultural exports, even those who vote blue. However, it looks as if the targets of the retaliatory tariffs are primarily from Trump-voting states. Me thinks the leaders of Canada, Mexico, China, and EU, are a LOT smarter than Trump... targeting his 'base'. Consequences, indeed!

That could be damning with faint praise.

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5 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Folks won't quit eating.  They'll just pay more.

 

And you’re happy with situation?

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4 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

NOT! The will buy from other countries, instead of the US.

Note that I didn't say a damn thing about that.

In fact, I haven't stated whether I am in favor of tariffs or not.  I do recognize that they are imposed by every nation on the face of the earth and that the US' are generally lower than other nations or federation of nations.  It's just the current state of affairs all around the world.

 

 

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4 hours ago, RKoch said:

Nearly every state has agricultural exports, even those who vote blue. However, it looks as if the targets of the retaliatory tariffs are primarily from Trump-voting states. Me thinks the leaders of Canada, Mexico, China, and EU, are a LOT smarter than Trump... targeting his 'base'. Consequences, indeed!

Picking the industry to raise tariffs by Trump-voting states is a very interesting concept....... that would be an almost surgical political strike back. I’m not sure and hope it wouldn’t happen. It would make the possible Russian involvement in the US election look minor in comparison!!

 Trump would perceive that the vast majority of the world is not only punishing/retaliating against  the US, but also targeting the Red states and his ardent supporters specifically.  This could out of hand rapidly while he tries to appease or distract his own camp     .

(Well Trump won’t figure it out, somebody will have to sketch it in comic book form first for him) 

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13 minutes ago, mad said:

And you’re happy with situation?

Well, it would be terrible for the world to starve for lack of Chilean grapes or Israeli strawberries.

 

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5 minutes ago, mad said:

Picking the industry to raise tariffs by Trump-voting states is a very interesting concept....... that would be an almost surgical political strike back. I’m not sure and hope it wouldn’t happen. It would make the possible Russian involvement in the US election look minor in comparison!!

 Trump would perceive that the vast majority of the world is not only punishing/retaliating against  the US, but also targeting the Red states and his ardent supporters specifically.  This could out of hand rapidly while he tries to appease or distract his own camp     .

(Well Trump won’t figure it out, somebody will have to sketch it in comic book form first for him) 

It may be a coincidence, but it appears possible. Wheat and corn are grown in primarily Trump voting states....Nebraska, Kanssas, etc. pork from Iowa and Arkansas. Whiskey from Kentucky and Tennessee.  Suppose a tariff was placed on US oil exports...which are primarily Alaska, Texas, Louisiana... What would your hunch be? 

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5 hours ago, Saorsa said:

I realize it's hopeless to think you might have a memory that extended back to the 80's but if you did you would know about all the times tariffs were applied wrongly and under false pretenses to our softwood lumber.

You would also know that every single time those tariffs were declared illegal by the WTO.

But, since you have the typical mayfly memory of a right winger you won't know any of that.

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32 minutes ago, RKoch said:

It may be a coincidence, but it appears possible. Wheat and corn are grown in primarily Trump voting states....Nebraska, Kanssas, etc. pork from Iowa and Arkansas. Whiskey from Kentucky and Tennessee.  Suppose a tariff was placed on US oil exports...which are primarily Alaska, Texas, Louisiana... What would your hunch be? 

Out of curiosity,  are there any major interests in the Blue states that could be affected?

if not?  it definitely seems as if Trump is fucking his own supporters as well as shooting himself in both feet, and possibly the dick. (Probably the only thing to make Melania smile at the moment) 

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10 minutes ago, mad said:

Out of curiosity,  are there any major interests in the Blue states that could be affected?

if not?  it definitely seems as if Trump is fucking his own supporters as well as shooting himself in both feet, and possibly the dick. (Probably the only thing to make Melania smile at the moment) 

I heard citrus being mentioned. That's Florida (voted Trump) but also California (Clinton). And Floridas citrus has declined anyway, due to encroaching development, disease, hurricane and freeze damage.California may have passed us. 

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