Ishmael

Kicking off the trade wars

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6 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

So now you're a Tax-em-all kinda guy? What is it about the taste of Trump's dick that has you changing your policy preferences so fast?

Nope, I understand the government requires some revenue.  It's only fuckwits like yourself who seem stuck on all or nothing idiocy.

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Yep, you're definitely the smartest guy in the room.

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Nobody seems to understand Riccardo's Laws of Comparative Advantage.  They really do work.  Deming goes back to the concept of blaming the system, not the players in the system.  A good example is the use of single payer auto insurance. In those jurisdictions, there are one set of rules and the insurers for the most part pay on time.  As a result, running a body shop is a license to print money.  A Canadian body shop chain thought they were so good at it that they bought a set of chains in Washington and Oregon.  They were out of that game 150 million two years later when they found that they did not have the business processes in place to cover the number of different insurers and their different rules.  
The other thing is that US insurers take an absolute age to pay.  The higher costs of running an auto body shop are of course handed on to the consumer.  In the Canadian case it goes to higher wages and profits.

The single insurer problem has its issues, of course and that is controlling the sticky fingers of the thieves in government.  Nothing like the insurance retentions to cover a deficit.  Leaves the insurer in dire straits, but what the hell.  Bob Bell of Condor fame had a lot to do with setting up ICBC in British Columbia in the early days.  There was a lot of talk about how to put in "poison pills" for the government.  However, BC government was smarter and at one point put in "no fault" insurance so no re-insurer would touch them. A lot of the poison pills in this instance went away.

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Nobody seems to understand Riccardo's Laws of Comparative Advantage.  They really do work.  Deming goes back to the concept of blaming the system, not the players in the system.  A good example is the use of single payer auto insurance. In those jurisdictions, there are one set of rules and the insurers for the most part pay on time.  As a result, running a body shop is a license to print money.  A Canadian body shop chain thought they were so good at it that they bought a set of chains in Washington and Oregon.  They were out of that game 150 million two years later when they found that they did not have the business processes in place to cover the number of different insurers and their different rules.  
The other thing is that US insurers take an absolute age to pay.  The higher costs of running an auto body shop are of course handed on to the consumer.  In the Canadian case it goes to higher wages and profits.

The single insurer problem has its issues, of course and that is controlling the sticky fingers of the thieves in government.  Nothing like the insurance retentions to cover a deficit.  Leaves the insurer in dire straits, but what the hell.  Bob Bell of Condor fame had a lot to do with setting up ICBC in British Columbia in the early days.  There was a lot of talk about how to put in "poison pills" for the government.  However, BC government was smarter and at one point put in "no fault" insurance so no re-insurer would touch them. A lot of the poison pills in this instance went away.

The softwood lumber issue seems to be the same situation.  The system that the US has set up is less efficient, but that is what they do.  In this case, to protect their system, they must rely on tariffs.  Aluminum, another.  The US does not have access to Bauxite at the point where they can produce cheap electricity.  Quebec does.  The US producer must rely on expensive and dirty coal.  There is a reason there is so little aluminum made in the states.  It is just that they are not very good at making it and so there is little capital available.

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6 minutes ago, Laker said:

 BC government was smarter and at one point put in "no fault" insurance so no re-insurer would touch them. A lot of the poison pills in this instance went away.

Where did you get that?

We don't have no-fault. They bring it up from time to time but it is a non-starter.

The government DOES plunder ICBC (and Hydro and the Ferries) for "shareholder dividends" to add to their tax income. Coincidentally all three suffer chronic deficits.

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23 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Where did you get that?

We don't have no-fault. They bring it up from time to time but it is a non-starter.

The government DOES plunder ICBC (and Hydro and the Ferries) for "shareholder dividends" to add to their tax income. Coincidentally all three suffer chronic deficits.

ICBC has been around for a while.  It was started in 1973.   I remember "no fault" being in place in the early 80s.

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7 minutes ago, Laker said:

ICBC has been around for a while.  It was started in 1973.   I remember "no fault" being in place in the early 80s.

Sorry, you remember wrong.

I was driving for years before ICBC so I know both sides of that particular coin. In fact, apropos of nothing, the IBM compute center I worked at provided a lot of the original data processing staff for ICBC when it started up. IBM provided the original mainframe systems and providing a core staff was part of the deal.

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4 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Nope, I understand the government requires some revenue.  It's only fuckwits like yourself who seem stuck on all or nothing idiocy.

Makes perfect sense. Gotta pay for those tax cuts somehow. 

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So, Trump kicks off the Trade War, and Canada/EU return it for a TD. Doesn't appear Trump has a game plan. His red-state voters will end up getting hurt, but Fox will say Obama started it and trumpettes will believe it.

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Just now, RKoch said:

 Doesn't appear Trump has a game plan.

Ya think?

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4 hours ago, Ishmael said:

The Koch brothers have come out against tariffs because they know it will fuck up the economy.

This is hardly new. Maybe I'll dig up some old issues of Reason magazine in which they were bashing Pat Buchanan for his protectionist idiocy.

They were that way in the 80's when I first subscribed and have been ever since, so not exactly a "coming out" IMO.

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I got a fund raising letter from one of the Koch Brothers yesterday- the argument seemed to revolve around justice & freedom for the common man being a good thing, rather than $$$$$$$$$ for the elites.  

I said to myself, “self, this is strange, is it not? Multi billionaires getting weird, going pro & Begging for dough?” I then thought about framing the letter and return envelope and hanging them on a wall next to the fake cover of Time Magazine- you know, the one with the 1st inaugural pic of George 2nd on it, and the words ‘We are Fucked’  emblazoned below it.

But I shredded it instead.  (For those of you worried about the Deep State, it is a shredder that cuts paper into tiny bits, rather than strips.  The shredder is made in China. :))

Funny, it have me no joy. There was no good time to do it, you see.

Ah, living in Trump’s America!  I am excessively amused!  

A grand diversion, that is certain, but I thought Trump and the Kochs were riding in the same limousine. <_<

No?  Who asked to be let out?  Whose limo was it?  One provided by taxpayer dollars?  Somebody left by the side of the road, in a ditch?  

It’s got me under pressure.

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3 hours ago, Amati said:

I got a fund raising letter from one of the Koch Brothers yesterday- the argument seemed to revolve around justice & freedom for the common man being a good thing, rather than $$$$$$$$$ for the elites.  

I said to myself, “self, this is strange, is it not? Multi billionaires getting weird, going pro & Begging for dough?” I then thought about framing the letter and return envelope and hanging them on a wall next to the fake cover of Time Magazine- you know, the one with the 1st inaugural pic of George 2nd on it, and the words ‘We are Fucked’  emblazoned below it.

But I shredded it instead.  (For those of you worried about the Deep State, it is a shredder that cuts paper into tiny bits, rather than strips.  The shredder is made in China. :))

Funny, it have me no joy. There was no good time to do it, you see.

Ah, living in Trump’s America!  I am excessively amused!  

A grand diversion, that is certain, but I thought Trump and the Kochs were riding in the same limousine. <_<

No?  Who asked to be let out?  Whose limo was it?  One provided by taxpayer dollars?  Somebody left by the side of the road, in a ditch?  

 It’s got me under pressure.

But you like Soros.... 

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56 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

But you like Soros.... 

Does he?

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14 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Does he?

Thanks for that - he didn't mention Soros in his discussion of the Koch's activities, and Soros is just as invasive and insidious, but, aligned with leftist causes.   SO - if one can be ascribed as a rabid partisan repubtard for pointing out something they don't like on the D side of things, then isn't the inverse logically true as well, unless both claims are fallacious? 

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54 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Thanks for that - he didn't mention Soros in his discussion of the Koch's activities, and Soros is just as invasive and insidious, but, aligned with leftist causes.   SO - if one can be ascribed as a rabid partisan repubtard for pointing out something they don't like on the D side of things, then isn't the inverse logically true as well, unless both claims are fallacious? 

No.

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An opinion piece that tries to make the case that Canada is a pawn in a 3D global chess game. To me, the thought of Trump and his minions playing anything more complex than spin-the-bottle just does not work.

Quote

Canadians are left with the impression that President Donald Trump is an irrational buffoon who is shooting himself in the foot with his trade policies. In fact, contrary to common (and, apparently, Canadian political executive) sense, the U.S. administration’s tariffs are actually perfectly rational – from Mr. Trump’s perspective.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-trumps-beggar-thy-neighbour-trade-strategy-is-anything-but-foolish/

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6 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Canadians are left with the impression that President Donald Trump is an irrational buffoon

Credit to Canadians for being smarter than Fox News viewers. 

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Thanks for that - he didn't mention Soros in his discussion of the Koch's activities, and Soros is just as invasive and insidious, but, aligned with leftist causes.   SO - if one can be ascribed as a rabid partisan repubtard for pointing out something they don't like on the D side of things, then isn't the inverse logically true as well, unless both claims are fallacious? 

Why would he mention Soros in a discussion about Koch? Oh yeah, I forgot, you subscribe to the Church of Whatabout-ism....

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Why would he mention Soros in a discussion about Koch? Oh yeah, I forgot, you subscribe to the Church of Whatabout-ism....

Pointing out partisan hypocrisy isn't "whataboutism" - though that would be the case if someone tried to say it was OK for someone on one side to do so because someone on the other side did.   Folks like to scream about rabid righties whenever someone on the right makes a point about the impropriety of something proffered by the left - and like to bring up what they consider to be right-side examples of the same behavior in their attempts to negate or deflect the criticism that was aimed at that particular lefty instance. 

To be fair - I don't think that there's anything at all wrong w/someone spending their money to try to make what they consider to be positive changes in the world.  HOW they spend that money, and HOW they go about trying to push for those changes is a different conversation, and both the Kochs and Soros are directly and inappropriately intrusive in their funding of politicians.    

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Pointing out partisan hypocrisy isn't "whataboutism" - though that would be the case if someone tried to say it was OK for someone on one side to do so because someone on the other side did.   Folks like to scream about rabid righties whenever someone on the right makes a point about the impropriety of something proffered by the left - and like to bring up what they consider to be right-side examples of the same behavior in their attempts to negate or deflect the criticism that was aimed at that particular lefty instance. 

To be fair - I don't think that there's anything at all wrong w/someone spending their money to try to make what they consider to be positive changes in the world.  HOW they spend that money, and HOW they go about trying to push for those changes is a different conversation, and both the Kochs and Soros are directly and inappropriately intrusive in their funding of politicians.    

Bringing up a "What about Soros" when Amati is discussing Koch? Classic Whataboutism...

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2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Damn you really are so blindly partisan that you can't accept a bigger perspective, aren't you?   

Dude, you literally dropped a "What about Soros" after a discussion he had about some junk mail he got from Koch. Now, if he had gotten some junk mail from Soros on the same day....

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8 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Dude, you literally dropped a "What about Soros" after a discussion he had about some junk mail he got from Koch. Now, if he had gotten some junk mail from Soros on the same day....

Whataboutism is an argument typically heard from 5 year olds and Republicans. 

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6 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Dude, you literally dropped a "What about Soros" after a discussion he had about some junk mail he got from Koch. Now, if he had gotten some junk mail from Soros on the same day....

The junk mail wasn't the point - the commentary about the evil Kochs was, but,  I can better understand your point if your focus was on the junk mail....  Gotta admit I've not gotten anything directly from Soros, but, I have from some of the other organizations he funds, I suspect by virtue of my membership in the Kennedy Center and donations to the Smithsonian.  I guess they didn't bounce  their list against NRA and Fox & Friends subscribers before they sent it to me. 

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

An opinion piece that tries to make the case that Canada is a pawn in a 3D global chess game. To me, the thought of Trump and his minions playing anything more complex than spin-the-bottle just does not work.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-trumps-beggar-thy-neighbour-trade-strategy-is-anything-but-foolish/

 

Thanks for that Ish!!  Well reasoned argument.  Americans will suffer, but not as much, or as quickly as Canada, Mexico and the EU, which are smaller weaker economies.  And, that's why he backed off on China, they are not as weak, and would hurt us more.  Sad that the WTO that began in 1944, and has helped EVERYONE prosper, can be tossed aside so easily by this Moronic Child-Man who got elected here.....

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27 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Thanks for that Ish!!  Well reasoned argument.  Americans will suffer, but not as much, or as quickly as Canada, Mexico and the EU, which are smaller weaker economies.  And, that's why he backed off on China, they are not as weak, and would hurt us more.  Sad that the WTO that began in 1944, and has helped EVERYONE prosper, can be tossed aside so easily by this Moronic Child-Man who got elected here.....

It was an interesting article. But they ignore that countries with smaller economies can band together into an economic power. EU for example. Germany is the main economic power in Europe, the other countries much smaller. But even Germany itself is much smaller than US...but the EU economic bloc, it's about equal to the US. Canada can certainly form or join an economic bloc...I'm fairly sure EU would welcome them, or they could form a trade bloc with Japan, S Korea, NZ, and Aus. As far as I'm aware, they are attempting just that by trying to salvage TPP without the US. That might not be the best vehicle, as it had little to do with free trade (all the countries already traded freely), and more to do with solidifying corporate power and weaken environmental and worker protection laws. But it provides a format for organization. 

My own impression is the article gives too much credit to Trump, he actually is an orange buffoon. 6 bankruptcies...is that not enough proof of his business acumen (or lack thereof)? IDK who is advising Trump, but my suspicions are that they're maneuvering to cash in on a short-term corporate windfall that ultimately hurts the US and leaves 'the little guy' holding the bag. That is the MO previously used. It's a mistake to presume some kind of noble protectionism or nationalism, when the actual motivation is just personal greed. They're just theives.

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39 minutes ago, RKoch said:

It was an interesting article. But they ignore that countries with smaller economies can band together into an economic power. EU for example. Germany is the main economic power in Europe, the other countries much smaller. But even Germany itself is much smaller than US...but the EU economic bloc, it's about equal to the US. Canada can certainly form or join an economic bloc...I'm fairly sure EU would welcome them, or they could form a trade bloc with Japan, S Korea, NZ, and Aus. As far as I'm aware, they are attempting just that by trying to salvage TPP without the US. That might not be the best vehicle, as it had little to do with free trade (all the countries already traded freely), and more to do with solidifying corporate power and weaken environmental and worker protection laws. But it provides a format for organization. 

My own impression is the article gives too much credit to Trump, he actually is an orange buffoon. 6 bankruptcies...is that not enough proof of his business acumen (or lack thereof)? IDK who is advising Trump, but my suspicions are that they're maneuvering to cash in on a short-term corporate windfall that ultimately hurts the US and leaves 'the little guy' holding the bag. That is the MO previously used. It's a mistake to presume some kind of noble protectionism or nationalism, when the actual motivation is just personal greed. They're just theives.

 

Yes, you are right about them giving Trump too much credit, and I think you are also correct about the bolded text above.  After promising to "drain the swamp", he has surrounded himself with the most venal, greedy, amoral, dishonest "swamp creatures", one could ever NOT hope  for him to find.  It will be a long time before our Country regains our former stature and respect from the rest of the 1st world countries.

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4 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Yes, you are right about them giving Trump too much credit, and I think you are also correct about the bolded text above.  After promising to "drain the swamp", he has surrounded himself with the most venal, greedy, amoral, dishonest "swamp creatures", one could ever NOT hope  for him to find.  It will be a long time before our Country regains our former stature and respect from the rest of the 1st world countries.

I suppose you could argue that he drained the swamp to fill his own pool/

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32 minutes ago, Amati said:

I suppose you could argue that he drained the swamp to fill his own pool/

He drained the DC swamp into the WH basement.

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Now Trump wants to have two bilateral trade deals instead of a three-way NAFTA. He's doing a great job of breaking anything he touches.

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5 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Now Trump wants to have two bilateral trade deals instead of a three-way NAFTA. He's doing a great job of breaking anything he touches.

 

Classic Bull in the China Shoppe!!!

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8 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Now Trump wants to have two bilateral trade deals instead of a three-way NAFTA. He's doing a great job of breaking anything he touches.

Yeah, Canada and Mexico are so identical in culture, capabilities and economy that anyone should be able to make one size fit all.

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

Classic Bull in the China Shoppe!!!

Mythbusters did an episode on that very thing. The bull was far more graceful and far less destructive than Trump.

It was amazing to watch that huge beast cruise though the shelves of crockery without touching anything. IIRC only a couple of pieces got broken by a swishing tail.

As opposed to Trump who breaks everything he gets near.

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7 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Yeah, Canada and Mexico are so identical in culture, capabilities and economy that anyone should be able to make one size fit all.

It worked pretty well for 25 years until the Moron from Lago decided to fuck it up.

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6 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

 

As opposed to Trump who breaks everything he gets near.

It's called the Mierdas Touch

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16 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Thanks for that - he didn't mention Soros in his discussion of the Koch's activities, and Soros is just as invasive and insidious, but, aligned with leftist causes.   SO - if one can be ascribed as a rabid partisan repubtard for pointing out something they don't like on the D side of things, then isn't the inverse logically true as well, unless both claims are fallacious? 

Invasive and insidious? Soros has done a lot of good trying to end the stupid drug war. When I say stuff like that, fallacious claims get made about my lefty alignment. The Koch's try to protect our property rights in a couple of important ways. When I say stuff like that, fallacious claims get made about my righty alignment.

But getting back to the thread topic, Trump's stupid taxes will fall on our precious cars. All of them. I've expressed my disinterest in motor vehicles before but Trump is touching an American "third rail" there. Weird people like me aside, we Americans loves us some cars.

I am interested in the gyro-stabilized cup holder.

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Trump cites British burning the Whitehouse in 1812 as reason for tariffs on Canadian products in 2018.

Source: CNN

(CNN)President Donald Trump and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had a testy phone call on May 25 over new tariffs imposed by the Trump administration targeting steel and aluminum imports coming from Canada, including one moment during the conversation in which Trump made an erroneous historical reference, sources familiar with the discussion told CNN. 

According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812. 

The problem with Trump's comments to Trudeau is that British troops burned down the White House during the War of 1812. Historians note the British attack on Washington was in retaliation for the American attack on York, Ontario, in territory that eventually became Canada, which was then a British colony. 

When asked if the comment was received as a joke, one source on the call said: "To the degree one can ever take what is said as a joke. The impact on Canada and ultimately on workers in the US won't be a laughing matter." 

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/index.html

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Trump cites British burning the Whitehouse in 1812 as reason for tariffs on Canadian products in 2018.

Source: CNN

(CNN)President Donald Trump and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had a testy phone call on May 25 over new tariffs imposed by the Trump administration targeting steel and aluminum imports coming from Canada, including one moment during the conversation in which Trump made an erroneous historical reference, sources familiar with the discussion told CNN. 

According to the sources, Trudeau pressed Trump on how he could justify the tariffs as a "national security" issue. In response, Trump quipped to Trudeau, "Didn't you guys burn down the White House?" referring to the War of 1812. 

The problem with Trump's comments to Trudeau is that British troops burned down the White House during the War of 1812. Historians note the British attack on Washington was in retaliation for the American attack on York, Ontario, in territory that eventually became Canada, which was then a British colony. 

When asked if the comment was received as a joke, one source on the call said: "To the degree one can ever take what is said as a joke. The impact on Canada and ultimately on workers in the US won't be a laughing matter." 

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/06/politics/war-of-1812-donald-trump-justin-trudeau-tariff/index.html

1812 2018 Three of those numbers are the same and the other one is nothing.

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14 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

America's going rogue. Somebody is going to have to stop those lunatics soon.

Yea, and who would have thought it would be the Koch Brothers? (no relation, btw. They're Dutch, I'm German-Brit).

 

 

Koch Brothers unveil multimillion dollar campaign to oppose Trump's Tariffs

Billionaire Koch brothers' political network will spend millions to oppose Trump's tariffs – the group's biggest split with the president so far 

The Koch political network unveils a multiyear, multimillion-dollar campaign opposing the tariffs implemented by President Donald Trump's administration.
The campaign will include media buys, activist education, grass-roots mobilization, lobbying and policy analysis. 
The network calls on the president to lift the recent steel and aluminum tariffs and the proposed levies on Chinese imports. 

Brian Schwartz | @schwartzbCNBC 
Published 1:00 PM ET Mon, 4 June 2018 Updated 4:48 PM ET Mon, 4 June 2018 CNBC.com 









Billionaire Koch brothers' political network will spend millions to oppose Trump's tariffs  
4:58 PM ET Mon, 4 June 2018 | 00:48 

The political network backed by billionaire industrialists Charles and David Koch on Monday unveiled a multiyear, multimillion-dollar campaign opposing the tariffs implemented by President Donald Trump's administration.

Last week's decision by the Trump's administration to place tariffs on imported steel and aluminium from key U.S. allies the European Union, Canada and Mexico apparently was the tipping point for the influential Koch network, which typically supports Republicans and conservative causes. The group is now moving ahead with a pro-free trade campaign that will include media buys, activist education, grass-roots mobilization, lobbying and policy analysis. 


Koch network groups Freedom Partners, Americans for Prosperity and the Libre Initiative made it clear in an announcement Monday that they are opposed to Trump's tariffs and that their media and PR blitz is determined to show the benefits of open trade policies.

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It's really scary to think that those fascist MoFo's are now the voice of reason in America.

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On 6/5/2018 at 6:40 PM, Ishmael said:

An opinion piece that tries to make the case that Canada is a pawn in a 3D global chess game. To me, the thought of Trump and his minions playing anything more complex than spin-the-bottle just does not work.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-trumps-beggar-thy-neighbour-trade-strategy-is-anything-but-foolish/

Interesting.

So according the this the US wants to stay top dog, even if it will loose economical power, as long as the others loose more.
What a dip shit move.

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8 hours ago, RKoch said:

Yea, and who would have thought it would be the Koch Brothers?

You mean besides people like me, who have watched the $pread that same message in Reason magazine for decades?

I guess people who don't pay much attention.

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6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

It's really scary to think that those fascist MoFo's are now the voice of reason in America.

When you only have two bins for your data separating samples is a real bitch.

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In further news, Trump is pissed that Canada proposed countervailing tariffs so he is planning to dump some more on us out of spite.

What a loathsome pile of feces. Not just Trump, but all the slimebags who serve him too.

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On 6/5/2018 at 3:02 PM, RKoch said:
On 6/5/2018 at 2:28 PM, billy backstay said:

 

Thanks for that Ish!!  Well reasoned argument.  Americans will suffer, but not as much, or as quickly as Canada, Mexico and the EU, which are smaller weaker economies.  And, that's why he backed off on China, they are not as weak, and would hurt us more.  Sad that the WTO that began in 1944, and has helped EVERYONE prosper, can be tossed aside so easily by this Moronic Child-Man who got elected here.....

It was an interesting article. But they ignore that countries with smaller economies can band together into an economic power. EU for example. Germany is the main economic power in Europe, the other countries much smaller. But even Germany itself is much smaller than US...but the EU economic bloc, it's about equal to the US. Canada can certainly form or join an economic bloc...I'm fairly sure EU would welcome them, or they could form a trade bloc with Japan, S Korea, NZ, and Aus. As far as I'm aware, they are attempting just that by trying to salvage TPP without the US. That might not be the best vehicle, as it had little to do with free trade (all the countries already traded freely), and more to do with solidifying corporate power and weaken environmental and worker protection laws. But it provides a format for organization. 

My own impression is the article gives too much credit to Trump, he actually is an orange buffoon. 6 bankruptcies...is that not enough proof of his business acumen (or lack thereof)? IDK who is advising Trump, but my suspicions are that they're maneuvering to cash in on a short-term corporate windfall that ultimately hurts the US and leaves 'the little guy' holding the bag. That is the MO previously used. It's a mistake to presume some kind of noble protectionism or nationalism, when the actual motivation is just personal greed. They're just theives.

 

President Trump backed off on China because he and Ivanka pulled out deals that profited them personally.

Interesting take of TPP, thanks RK.... I had some similar thoughts over time but not quite as focused.

Trump and his cronies are thieves and profiteers. They don't care what they smash, what they want is some big market swings that they can bet poker chips on. It's one big reason why they and their elk hate the Fed so much.

Just had a conversation with our finance professional this morning, his educated guess is that Trump's ludicrous and incomprehensible trade policies will be a check on the inflation that's coming our way. Could be a good thing. But is there some smart person pulling the strings, behind all this? I don't think so, Trump's ego would be too large a hurdle.

-DSK

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48 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Would you just approve Trump Tower Toronto already?  This isn’t that hard. 

There was a Trump Tower in Toronto for a couple of years, financed by Eastern European and Russian money, you know the kind. It was only a licensing and management deal for Trump although I can't imagine why his 'brand' has ever been worth anything. Anyway, the owners of TT went broke and the building was sold to others but is no longer a TT - largely because no one wanted to buy in the condo part and no one wanted to stay in the hotel part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adelaide_Hotel_Toronto

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18 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

There was a Trump Tower in Toronto for a couple of years, financed by Eastern European and Russian money, you know the kind. It was only a licensing and management deal for Trump although I can't imagine why his 'brand' has ever been worth anything. Anyway, the owners of TT went broke and the building was sold to others but is no longer a TT - largely because no one wanted to buy in the condo part and no one wanted to stay in the hotel part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adelaide_Hotel_Toronto

As I understand, Trumps business model has changed over the years from ownership/development to licensing/management. Costs him no up-front money that way.

several years ago (10..12?) there was a Trump Tower planned for Tampa on a sliver of riverfront property. It was a licensing deal. Lots of publicity and banners...they pre-sold many of the condo units. After an engineering study was done, the land turned out to be too unstable for a project that size and it was cancelled and the developer declared bankruptcy. The condo buyers sued, I doubt they got much money back, if any.

management.... Back in '08 I was running a powerboat from Newport to Florida. We stopped in Atlantic City at Trump's Marina as it was late and we needed fuel. No dock master on duty, we didn't figure on it due to the hour, but figured to sort everything out in AM. Had to move boat down end pier to get a working shore-power, about half didn't. Up bright and early, looking for a marina employee. Asked at front desk of casino when a dock master would be there, they didn't know, but "soon". Crew showered, still no dock master, moved boat to fuel dock, still no dock master, asked at casino desk again -"soon",  finally at about 10 AM we left. At no time did any employee show up. Rather slip-shod operation. We went slowly to save fuel and stopped further down the NJ coast.

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Trump to leave G7 Summit early. I guess he got butthurt over Macron's and Trudeau's tweets. With the petulant child gone, the adults can probably get some business done.

 

 
Source: Politico

President Donald Trump will leave the G-7 summit before its conclusion, the White House announced on Thursday night, following a day of back-and-forth with fellow world leaders that foreshadowed confrontations during the meeting of the world's largest advanced economies. 

Trump will be depart the summit in Quebec at 10:30 a.m. Saturday and head directly to Singapore, the site of his June 12 meeting with the North Korean leader, Kim Jong Un, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said in a statement. The G-7 summit is scheduled to wrap up later on Saturday. 

Before the announcement, President Emmanuel Macron of France and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada both promised to confront Trump over his recent decision to impose tariffs on U.S. allies. 

Trump, in response, laid into the two leaders on Thursday evening over those plans.

Read more: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/07/trump-g7-trudeau-macron-632988

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28 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Trump to leave G7 Summit early. I guess he got butthurt over Macron's and Trudeau's tweets. With the petulant child gone, the adults can probably get some business done.

 

 
Source: Politico

President Donald Trump will leave the G-7 summit before its conclusion, the White House announced on Thursday night, following a day of back-and-forth with fellow world leaders that foreshadowed confrontations during the meeting of the world's largest advanced economies. 

Trump will be depart the summit in Quebec at 10:30 a.m. Saturday and head directly to Singapore, the site of his June 12 meeting with the North Korean leader, Kim Jong Un, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said in a statement. The G-7 summit is scheduled to wrap up later on Saturday. 

Before the announcement, President Emmanuel Macron of France and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau of Canada both promised to confront Trump over his recent decision to impose tariffs on U.S. allies. 

Trump, in response, laid into the two leaders on Thursday evening over those plans.

Read more: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/07/trump-g7-trudeau-macron-632988

Uh oh

Looks like we're going back to Freedom Fries

-DSK

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I'd be surprised if the head cheese showed at all. It's below his kingly notice, let the serfs duke it out.

"I'm so sorry I couldn't be there, but my bone spurs were acting up."

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On 6/7/2018 at 1:44 PM, LeoV said:

Interesting.

So according the this the US wants to stay top dog, even if it will loose economical power, as long as the others loose more.
What a dip shit move.

I can totally see trump doing this.

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Don't worry, Russia is there whether they have a seat at the table or not.

Russia

Russia is one of the EU's largest suppliers of energy. In 2013, it accounted for 39% of its natural gas imports.

A number of individual EU countries are also heavily dependent on Russian supplies for certain energy resources, in particular natural gas. Natural gas supplies from Russia often go through transit countries such as Ukraine and Belarus.

In 2009, the EU and Russia established an Early Warning Mechanism. This instrument aims to prevent supply interruptions in gas, oil, or electricity and to ensure rapid communication.

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Speaking of Russia...

Quote

"From what we saw at the time, Putin was very upset at being expelled from the G8 in 2014," said Seva Gunitsky, who teaches political science at the University of Toronto. "He saw membership as a symbol of the kind of recognition he wanted for Russia as a great and respected country.

"So permission to re-enter the G8 is really a very valuable bargaining chip. And yet Trump seems willing to give him this prize with no preconditions.

"Let's not forget Putin was expelled for occupying Crimea and nothing about that situation has changed."

Gunitsky said Trump's trial balloon, "part of a pattern of bizarre choices," will only inflame suspicions that the U.S. president is beholden to Russia in some mysterious way.

Robert Bothwell is a professor of International Relations at the Munk School of Global Affairs, specializing in Cold War history and Canada-Russia relations. He said he believes the notion that the U.S. president is a Russian agent of influence is now being seriously entertained in defence and intelligence circles in Washington.

"I'm trying to think of more than one or two occasions when he was critical of Russia or Putin," he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trump-g7-russia-putin-1.4699286

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Whether he is or isn't an "official" Russian agent they are certainly getting the benefit they would if he was one.

If he isn't, it just means it's cheaper for them.

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When asked if the US now accepts the Russian occupation of the Crimea, he first blamed Obama (off course) and then did not answer the question.
In the past the answer was a firm no.

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It will be interesting how long it will take for Trump's successor to clean up the mess he has left behind.  His policies will lead to the shrinking of the power of the US in the same way it has in so many times in history.  Inwards focus of any economy leads to diminuation.  You think his advisors would tell him that.  He wouldn't listen, of course.

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1 minute ago, Blue Crab said:

A G anything without the US, Russia, and China is a nothing burger German sausage: Good with beer.

But the Euro's will feel sooo good about themselves.

 

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17 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

But the Euro's will feel sooo good about themselves.

 

Good on 'em. They could use a break beyond Brexit. Maybe plug in Australia to make up for the US. Apparently Oz leads the way in many areas like the gun thing, immigration, ... and  .... sheep. Yeah, sheep, and snakes, spiders, and crocs. Maybe sailing too. Big knives. Important shit on a global basis.  I see Italy is also in the Gs, so I guess there's real affirmative action in the rest of the world too. 

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18 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Good on 'em. They could use a break beyond Brexit. Maybe plug in Australia to make up for the US. Apparently Oz leads the way in many areas like the gun thing, immigration, ... and  .... sheep. Yeah, sheep, and snakes, spiders, and crocs. Maybe sailing too. Big knives. Important shit on a global basis.  I see Italy is also in the Gs, so I guess there's real affirmative action in the rest of the world too. 

The EU doesn't like big knives and they have a lot of rules about sheep.

 

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29 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Good on 'em. They could use a break beyond Brexit. Maybe plug in Australia to make up for the US. Apparently Oz leads the way in many areas like the gun thing, immigration, ... and  .... sheep. Yeah, sheep, and snakes, spiders, and crocs. Maybe sailing too. Big knives. Important shit on a global basis.  I see Italy is also in the Gs, so I guess there's real affirmative action in the rest of the world too. 

I'd prefer it if you guys left us right out of it. We're the only 1st World economy/country in the Southern Hemisphere, we're pretty happy and comfortable, it's far better if you all basically forget we exist. Next thing a bunch of you will want to migrate here and there goes the neighbourhood.

We could spare you some crocs though. The way global warming is going, Moreton Bay is going to be overrun with the pests within 10 years, I'm told.

FKT

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21 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I'd prefer it if you guys left us right out of it. We're the only 1st World economy/country in the Southern Hemisphere, we're pretty happy and comfortable, it's far better if you all basically forget we exist. Next thing a bunch of you will want to migrate here and there goes the neighbourhood.

We could spare you some crocs though. The way global warming is going, Moreton Bay is going to be overrun with the pests within 10 years, I'm told.

FKT

What a bummer. Beautiful spot. How about using those shark nets to keep them out? Or better, skin them out and export boots n belts. And meat. Ours are protected. That might kick off a trade war.

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This just isn't helpful at all.

Trump economic adviser: Trudeau 'stabbed us in the back'

Source: The Hill



BY BRETT SAMUELS - 06/10/18 09:13 AM EDT 

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow on Sunday tore into Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau for “double crossing” President Trump with critical comments about U.S. trade policy. 

“He was polarizing. He really kind of stabbed us in the back,” Kudlow said in strikingly critical remarks during an appearance on CNN’s “State of the Union.” 

“He did a great disservice to the whole G7,” he added. 
 
 
YvqvAtwD?format=jpg&name=280x280&format=
 

White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow says Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau “stabbed us in the back” #CNNSOTU https://cnn.it/2sKB0SG 

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1 minute ago, Fakenews said:

Navarro just said the same thing. They have their talking points.  But it good to see our allies taking shots at trump.  He’s super vulnerable now good chance he doesn’t make it to the end of the year.  

Under reported comment was that he might just not trade with our allies anymore.  

Idiocracy at work.

The idiocy is he doesn't get to decide who we trade with unless congress passes a total embargo.

 

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Just now, Fakenews said:

Well yeah.  But mainly the idea that it would be a good idea for our economy to not trade with anyone other than presumably Russia.

Why would you have such an idea?

 

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What does the class think of Trump's suggestion to eliminate all subsidies and tariffs?

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

What does the class think of Trump's suggestion to eliminate all subsidies and tariffs?

Over time? Sure. Let’s see him get it past congress. Farm bill anyone? Boeing’s military contracts? Road subsidies? Labor laws? Environmental protection laws?

slogans are nice Dog. Reality is complex.

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

Over time? Sure. Let’s see him get it past congress. Farm bill anyone? Boeing’s military contracts? Road subsidies? Labor laws? Environmental protection laws?

slogans are nice Dog. Reality is complex.

Do you think our trading partners would go for it?

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16 minutes ago, Dog said:

Do you think our trading partners would go for it?

There’s no way in hell Tom’s sugar boys down south will go for it, or the dairy guys in Wisconsin, etc, etc, etc. It would never get to the international stage. It’s just a piece of bread for you fanboys. And you lap it up...

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26 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

Navarro just said the same thing. They have their talking points.  But it good to see our allies taking shots at trump.  He’s super vulnerable now good chance he doesn’t make it to the end of the year.  

Under reported comment was that he might just not trade with our allies anymore.  

Idiocracy at work.

Yeah. Nobody's ego could take what Trump's is taking daily. He's the laughing stock of the world. He might stroke out. I take no pleasure in saying that but the man has proven to be anti-American for all his talk of Nationalism. Dumber fucks now want to expand or codify the big dumb fuck's war powers. I dearly hope there is a quiet movement gathering momentum to impeach asap. Or other appropriate action. He's losing whatever sanity he once had.

This is worth a read or re-read: ..." The evidence suggesting that Donald Trump may have serious mental health problems is overwhelming." https://www.salon.com/2017/09/12/harvard-psychiatrist-lance-dodes-donald-trump-is-a-sociopath-and-a-very-sick-individual/

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50 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

I’m referring to the clownish Trump.  But you knew that....

Except for the presumably which I presume is your presumption.

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22 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Except for the presumably which I presume is your presumption.

Gollllleeee, you use your mouth purtier than a 20 dollar whore!

 

That Salon article is right on the mark, imho...

"If they are skilled at it the way Trump is, or the way that Mussolini or Hitler was, then they speak to the concerns of those people. Not that they really have any care about them. Trump does not. He could care less about these people. What they want from him is somebody who will finally be strong and speak up for them, except that it is a one-sided bargain. They just do not know it is because he is a liar."

"The best diagnosis for Trump is that he is a malignant narcissist. It contains the narcissistic part, which is no big deal alone -- lots of people are narcissistic -- but the malignant part is the sociopathy dimension. These terms suggest that Trump is a very primitive man. He is also a man who has a fundamental, deep psychological defect. It is expressed in his inability to empathize with others and his lack of genuine loyalty to anyone. You will notice that Trump wants everyone to be loyal to him, but he is loyal to nobody."

 

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