Ishmael

Kicking off the trade wars

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2 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Maybe we'll end up exporting some cruise missiles.

COD.... Or else.

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36 minutes ago, Laker said:

Harken stuff out of US.  Buying Lewmar.  Harken stuff out of Italy.  Not affected.

Good example.

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52 minutes ago, RKoch said:

The Canadian consumers have a choice. They can buy us products with a 25% tariff, or they can buy the product from another country. Yea, it's a tax, but an optional tax. Most Canadians will opt not to pay it, and buy elsewhere. 

But it WILL be a tax on Canadian consumers.

Let's look at the Maple Syrup thing. The US Selling Maple Syrup into Canada would drive down prices. It's more supply. Increasing the price on that supply will have the knock on effect of increasing the consumer price of ALL maple syrup, regardless of origin.

Think of the US Sugar tarriffs. There's plenty of sugar available, walk down the aisle of any store, look at the waistlines of the average american. Yet the price is higher than we'd see if we allowed in sugar imports.

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

But it WILL be a tax on Canadian consumers.

Let's look at the Maple Syrup thing. The US Selling Maple Syrup into Canada would drive down prices. It's more supply. Increasing the price on that supply will have the knock on effect of increasing the consumer price of ALL maple syrup, regardless of origin.

Think of the US Sugar tarriffs. There's plenty of sugar available, walk down the aisle of any store, look at the waistlines of the average american. Yet the price is higher than we'd see if we allowed in sugar imports.

Why don't Americans drink more tea?  Because 250 years ago the Brits taxed the shit out of tea. So now we drink coffee. 

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11 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Why don't Americans drink more tea?  Because 250 years ago the Brits taxed the shit out of tea. So now we drink coffee. 

Interesting analysis.  Perhaps the immigration of a population that did not have an attachment to tea starting in the early 1800s would have an effect.  Wonder what the take up on coffee in the late 1700s to mid 1800s was

 

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28 minutes ago, Lark said:

COD.... Or else.

Will probably come back with value added.

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20 minutes ago, Laker said:

Interesting analysis.  Perhaps the immigration of a population that did not have an attachment to tea starting in the early 1800s would have an effect.  Wonder what the take up on coffee in the late 1700s to mid 1800s was

 

Revolutionary period

By the mid-1700's, many taverns in the Colonies doubled as coffeehouses, but tea was still the drink of choice. This all changed following the Boston Tea Party in 1773 when angry colonists protesting the high British tea tax dumped a shipment of tea into the Boston Harbor. From that moment on, drinking tea was deemed unpatriotic and drinking coffee became the new favorite beverage. 

 

Coffee Grower durtng the 18th Century
ecof

 

The American people embraced coffee drinking from the time they got up in the morning until the evening when they prepared for a night's rest. During the American Revolution, the coffee's popularity persisted. President George Washington was an importer of coffee beans while his wife, Martha, perfected the coffee-brewing process. Subsequently, in an 1824 letter to a friend, Thomas Jefferson, the nation's third President, was noted for saying that coffee would become the 'beverage of the civilized world.'

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Will you now use carbon fiber to replace steel & aluminium?

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56 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Let's look at the Maple Syrup thing. The US Selling Maple Syrup into Canada would drive down prices. It's more supply. Increasing the price on that supply will have the knock on effect of increasing the consumer price of ALL maple syrup, regardless of origin.

You are correct, but only if you ignore real-world factors like the Quebec Maple Syrup cartel - no, it's not from a David Foster Wallace novel, it's from real life - http://digital.vpr.net/post/qu-becs-legal-maple-syrup-cartel-dictates-prices-vermont-maple-producers

There's now a 10% import tariff on sailboats into Canada from the US.

 

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45 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

 

...

Think of the US Sugar tarriffs. There's plenty of sugar available, walk down the aisle of any store, look at the waistlines of the average american. Yet the price is higher than we'd see if we allowed in sugar imports.

We could do so much good importing sugar from the Caribbean but for BIG SUGAR. We have to find some honest leadership.

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23 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

You are correct, but only if you ignore real-world factors like the Quebec Maple Syrup cartel - no, it's not from a David Foster Wallace novel, it's from real life - http://digital.vpr.net/post/qu-becs-legal-maple-syrup-cartel-dictates-prices-vermont-maple-producers

There's now a 10% import tariff on sailboats into Canada from the US.

 

I think Canada slapped tariffs on US motor boats too. 

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You vividly illustrate the stupid in this situation.

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59 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Revolutionary period

By the mid-1700's, many taverns in the Colonies doubled as coffeehouses, but tea was still the drink of choice. This all changed following the Boston Tea Party in 1773 when angry colonists protesting the high British tea tax dumped a shipment of tea into the Boston Harbor. From that moment on, drinking tea was deemed unpatriotic and drinking coffee became the new favorite beverage. 

 

Coffee Grower durtng the 18th Century
ecof

 

The American people embraced coffee drinking from the time they got up in the morning until the evening when they prepared for a night's rest. During the American Revolution, the coffee's popularity persisted. President George Washington was an importer of coffee beans while his wife, Martha, perfected the coffee-brewing process. Subsequently, in an 1824 letter to a friend, Thomas Jefferson, the nation's third President, was noted for saying that coffee would become the 'beverage of the civilized world.'

Wow.  Thank you.

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EU warns Trump: Auto tariffs could lead to $300B retaliation

BRUSSELS — The European Union is slamming the Trump administration for considering tariffs on auto imports, saying they could lead to global retaliation against some $300 billion in U.S. goods. 

European Commission spokesman Margaritis Schinas said Monday the U.S. investigation into the possibility of auto tariffs “lacks legitimacy, factual basis and violates international trade rules,” just like last month’s U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminum imports. 

The EU sent comments to the U.S. on whether auto imports pose enough of a threat to U.S. national security to justify tariffs and estimating the economic impact. 

President Donald Trump cited national security concerns for the previous tariffs. The EU, Mexico, Canada, Turkey and India introduced duties on U.S. products in return. 

https://www.heraldnet.com/nation-world/eu-warns-trump-auto-tariffs-could-lead-to-300b-retaliation/?utm_source=DAILY+HERALD&utm_campaign=e0843be280-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d81d073bb4-e0843be280-228635337 

 

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That is the second best government related acronym ever.

The best of course was (and always will be) Nixon's Committee to Reelect the President - CREEP for short.

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36 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That is the second best government related acronym ever.

The best of course was (and always will be) Nixon's Committee to Reelect the President - CREEP for short.

The best acronym was W's original one for his Iraq War...Operation Iraqi Liberation.  It was a couple days before they realized the unintended truth.

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10 hours ago, RKoch said:

The Canadian consumers have a choice. They can buy us products with a 25% tariff, or they can buy the product from another country. Yea, it's a tax, but an optional tax. Most Canadians will opt not to pay it, and buy elsewhere. 

And Canada has a shiny new free trade agreement with the EU (CETA). I really don't see the logic behind Trump's actions. This stuff may be beyond his understanding but one would hope that his advisors would understand how things work.

i wonder at what point Trump will impose tariffs on the products his company and his daughter's company import?

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8 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

You are correct, but only if you ignore real-world factors like the Quebec Maple Syrup cartel - no, it's not from a David Foster Wallace novel, it's from real life - http://digital.vpr.net/post/qu-becs-legal-maple-syrup-cartel-dictates-prices-vermont-maple-producers

There's now a 10% import tariff on sailboats into Canada from the US.

 

Do you think this might encourage Canadians to buy Euro-made boats rather than Catalinas?

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12 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Maybe we'll end up exporting some cruise missiles.

Trenchant analysis as always. Crabby.

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Top U.S. business group assails Trump's handling of trade dispute

https://reut.rs/2KHbLLd 

From Reuters: 

Top U.S. business group assails Trump's handling of trade dispute 
 
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Chamber of Commerce on Monday denounced President Donald Trump’s handling of global trade disputes, issuing a report that argued tariffs imposed by Washington and retaliation by its partners would boomerang badly on the American economy. 

The Chamber, the nation’s largest business lobbying group and a traditional ally of Trump’s Republican Party, said the White House is risking a global trade war with its push to protect U.S. industry and workers with tariffs. 

The group’s analysis of the harm each U.S. state could suffer from retaliation by U.S. trading partners painted a gloomy picture that could bring pressure on the White House from Republicans ahead of congressional elections in November. 

For example, nearly $4 billion worth of exports from Texas could be targeted by retaliatory tariffs, the Chamber said, including $321 million in meat the state sends to Mexico each year and $494 million in grain sorghum it exports to China.

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20 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:
23 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Trade war debates always seem to cause the same mistake in identifying the targets of taxation, so I fixed RK's post above.

 

We're going to tax ourselves into riches!

Trump's going to tax the shit out of us and other governments, apparently impressed, are going to act like he's onto something by attempting to tax their populace into prosperity. Hard to believe that other governments are as stupid as ours, but the evidence is undeniable at this point.

You are missing one crucial point here, the tariffs put US (potential) exports at a 10%/25%/whatever competitive disadvantage. Lets take a micro example. There is now a tariff on US maple syrup entering Canada (who knew this actually happened!). The New Hampshire maple syrup exporter has announced he will now buy maple syrup from Canadian producers to meet his contractual needs in Canada. Net result is a loss of jobs and GDP for the US. 

What you need to remember is that the United States is not the only source of stuff in the world and Trump's trade 'policy' has given other countries a major competitive advantage. Big winners in this are Trump's main targets China, the EU, Mexico and Canada.

Taxes are always a drag on any company so of course they create competitive disadvantages.

But what else will happen? Without that US competition, Canadian producers will raise prices and consumers will pay more. A few producers will benefit at the expense of everyone else. As Raz'r pointed out above, this is exactly our situation with the protective taxes on imported $ugar.

I think other countries will be big winners to the extent that they do NOT imitate Trump. Higher prices for everyone and protected profits for a few are not good results (unless you're those few).

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18 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

As Bristol pointed out, they aren't as stupid as ours. our moron in chief is taxing everyone else to regenerate a golden age that never was; everyone else is just taxing us. Example: The US taxes all imported steel & aluminum, Canada taxes steel & aluminum imported from the US. I, the US consumer, am going to pay more for my tool steel imported from France. The Canadian customer isn't.

Canada taxes Canadian consumers if they import from the US. That's not "just taxing us." It's taxing their own people and making it possible for domestic and international producers to reduce quality, raise prices, and remain competitive in Canada. So that's what will happen.

Reduced quality at higher prices are not a good result but they're what tariffs yield. And no, it's not just a US thing.

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Tom, what I see happening in Canada now is that consumers are looking for every opportunity to buy products not made in the US, not just the things covered by tariffs. In some cases, and ideally, this means buying Canadian but if a Canadian product is not available then they are looking for other sources, principally EU or China. In the short term these options may be limited because previously US products had a comparative advantage. The longer this goes on the more options will become available. What Trump has done is poison as close and trusting an international relationship as there was in the world - and to what benefit. America First is likely become America Alone.

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4 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Canada taxes Canadian consumers if they import from the US. That's not "just taxing us." It's taxing their own people and making it possible for domestic and international producers to reduce quality, raise prices, and remain competitive in Canada. So that's what will happen.

Reduced quality at higher prices are not a good result but they're what tariffs yield. And no, it's not just a US thing.

I don't think you get it.  America is not the only source for goods.  All that happens is that the Chinese built Opti is bought over the American made one because the same unit is the same specification and cheaper.  The Danish and Dutch made Optis make sure that there is competition.  There will not be higher prices and lower quality because the US is not the only source.  And let's face it, if the bourbon is expensive, it either drives it to compete in the luxury market of Single Malt or one buys Rye.

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4 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Canada taxes Canadian consumers if they import from the US. That's not "just taxing us." It's taxing their own people and making it possible for domestic and international producers to reduce quality, raise prices, and remain competitive in Canada. So that's what will happen.

Reduced quality at higher prices are not a good result but they're what tariffs yield. And no, it's not just a US thing.

You seem to be stridently missing the dynamic of this situation. It's still free trade, or the same trade they had, for everyone else in the world. The US just opted out of it. This hasn't ignited - as far as I can see - a global trade war as much as a "global against the usa" trade war.

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22 minutes ago, Laker said:

I don't think you get it.  America is not the only source for goods.  All that happens is that the Chinese built Opti is bought over the American made one because the same unit is the same specification and cheaper.  The Danish and Dutch made Optis make sure that there is competition.  There will not be higher prices and lower quality because the US is not the only source.  And let's face it, if the bourbon is expensive, it either drives it to compete in the luxury market of Single Malt or one buys Rye.

I think more competition leads to lower prices and better quality. Eliminating a major competitor through taxation would thus lead to...fewer competitors. More is better.

A tariff targeting only the US is not as stupid as one targeting all imports, but "less stupid" is still stupid.

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1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Tom, what I see happening in Canada now is that consumers are looking for every opportunity to buy products not made in the US, not just the things covered by tariffs. In some cases, and ideally, this means buying Canadian but if a Canadian product is not available then they are looking for other sources, principally EU or China. In the short term these options may be limited because previously US products had a comparative advantage. The longer this goes on the more options will become available. What Trump has done is poison as close and trusting an international relationship as there was in the world - and to what benefit. America First is likely become America Alone.

Meanwhile, as those options become available, Canadian consumers are unhappy.

And that's my point here. Trade wars always make consumers unhappy.

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7 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I think more competition leads to lower prices and better quality. Eliminating a major competitor through taxation would thus lead to...fewer competitors. More is better.

A tariff targeting only the US is not as stupid as one targeting all imports, but "less stupid" is still stupid.

You are assuming supply is constant. The increased price on the US goods leads to a temporary price increase. Foreign supplier likes the price increase, and steps up their supply. There is now an excess in production capability, forcing both US and foreign suppliers to reduce prices. The price will eventually stabilize near the original price, because that's what the market demand determined. Result is now that the foreign supplier is operating at near 100% capacity (most efficiently), while the US supplier is operating at much lower capacity (less efficiently). 

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Meanwhile, as those options become available, Canadian consumers are unhappy.

And that's my point here. Trade wars always make consumers unhappy.

A lot depends on the market that the product lives in.  Removing a leg of an oligopoly such as stretch wrap will have a big effect.  A true free market such as blueberries, not really.  Monopolies come down to finding substitute products.  End games on isolation such as the decline of China in the 1400s are always to the detriment of the isolating entity.

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I don’t know if this had been covered- were out on the boat- but I just heard about Trump skirting laws about going after Harley Davidson specifically,  by encouraging foreign motorcycle manufacturers into America.  I know there are folks here who get off on seeing liberal heads explode, but all I feel is sadness that he’s going after HD at all, much less in such a sleazy underhanded way.  

Does any of our merry band here still think Trump is for America?  

Troll away.....

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16 minutes ago, Amati said:

I don’t know if this had been covered- were out on the boat- but I just heard about Trump skirting laws about going after Harley Davidson specifically,  by encouraging foreign motorcycle manufacturers into America.  I know there are folks here who get off on seeing liberal heads explode, but all I feel is sadness that he’s going after HD at all, much less in such a sleazy underhanded way.  

Does any of our merry band here still think Trump is for America?  

Troll away.....

Trump is for himself. 

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51 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Trump is for himself. 

Foreign bribery?

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3 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

You seem to be stridently missing the dynamic of this situation. It's still free trade, or the same trade they had, for everyone else in the world. The US just opted out of it. This hasn't ignited - as far as I can see - a global trade war as much as a "global against the usa" trade war.

Bingo!

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3 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Meanwhile, as those options become available, Canadian consumers are unhappy.

And that's my point here. Trade wars always make consumers unhappy.

Perhaps in the short term but in the medium and long term not so much. Consumers might like the new choices that emerge and might not go back to US products when (if?) the trade war with the US declines. In 2016, the US exported $1.32 trillion (good only, lots more in export of services). If the trade wars cost them 5% of this, and that amount does not seem out of line, the loss is $66 billion. Might just cost a few jobs and impact the overall economy a touch. Meanwhile the ROW (rest of the world) will just rearrange its trade and carry on. Not sure how this MAGA.

BTW, if your analysis does not match that of various leftie commentators here, not to mention that of that well-known leftie group, the US Chamber of Commerce perhaps you should be rethinking your position.

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1 hour ago, Amati said:

Foreign bribery?

There does seem to be some quid pro quo. It's probably not a coincidence that shortly after Trump lifted the ZTE embargo, China awarded Ivanka several trademarks and the govt announced an investment in a resort development which included a Trump Hotel and golf course.

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2 hours ago, Amati said:

Does any of our merry band here still think Trump is for America?  

Seems like one is left with two alternatives, neither of which is at attractive:

1) Trump could care less about what is in America's best interests - he only worries about what is in his best interests.

2) He is incredibly, almost criminally, incompetent.

Not a happy choice for anyone to make. Trumptards avoid the problem by just ignoring the facts of the matter.

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Alternatives?

Why do we have to choose?

  • Like 1

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13 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Seems like one is left with two alternatives, neither of which is at attractive:

1) Trump could care less about what is in America's best interests - he only worries about what is in his best interests.

2) He is incredibly, almost criminally, incompetent.

Not a happy choice for anyone to make. Trumptards avoid the problem by just ignoring the facts of the matter.

1+ 2 is very possible. Neither is quite impossible. 

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14 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Perhaps in the short term but in the medium and long term not so much. Consumers might like the new choices that emerge and might not go back to US products when (if?) the trade war with the US declines....

BTW, if your analysis does not match that of various leftie commentators here, not to mention that of that well-known leftie group, the US Chamber of Commerce perhaps you should be rethinking your position.

You have more faith than I do that politicians and their cronies will tax the choices that consumers want in a beneficial way.

My analysis rarely matches either half of the Duopoly. The only thing on which they can agree is that my elk are the worst of the worst of the other side. Not that it matters to me. I didn't care that it was unpopular to oppose the drug war when it was the biggest thing, didn't care that it was unpopular to oppose the Iraq war, and don't care that it's unpopular to tell other countries that they have no magic.

Free trade is smart, taxing your way to prosperity is stupid and won't work. It's stupid when Trump does it and stupid to retaliate. No one has politicians and cronies who will manipulate tax policy to develop better consumer choices. They don't exist.

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On 7/3/2018 at 11:24 AM, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

The right wing doesn't care. 

Probably because they were targeted by the Soviets starting in the late 1950’s.

(if anyone wants a cite, let me know & I can dig it up....)

 

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One of the biggest US vendors in the comms industry just shutdown all manufacturing in Oz. Some of these plants were state of the art.

They handled the transition so badly they’ve had nearly every order cancelled through blowouts in lead times and just plain fuckedness. 

They were number one. They’ll be lucky to get a foot back in the door for the next 10 years. 

And guess where the jobs went?

China.

 

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Merkel says would back cutting EU tariffs on U.S. car imports

From Reuters, link above.

Quote

BERLIN (Reuters) - German Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Thursday she would back lowering European Union tariffs on U.S. car imports, responding to an offer from Washington to abandon threatened levies on European cars in return for concessions.

However, she added EU tariff negotiations required a "common European position and we are still working on it."

Merkel is also folding on immigration but, that's another topic.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, warbird said:

You will probably get down votes for this, revealing that maybe Trump does know what he is doing?

I have to take you off ignore occasionally to see if you have gotten any better informed.  oh well, maybe later.  To be fair Trump knows what he is doing, it's just not anything like what you think. 

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14 minutes ago, warbird said:

You will probably get down votes for this, revealing that maybe Trump does know what he is doing?

You've heard of blind squirrels?

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U.S. Soybean Prices Crumble

“Soybean prices in the U.S. and Brazil, the nations that account for roughly 80 percent of global exports, have taken drastically different paths thanks to Donald Trump’s trade war,” Bloomberg reports. 

“In the U.S., average cash prices fell to about $7.79 a bushel this week, the lowest in almost a decade… Meanwhile in Brazil, exporters have been handed high times. Soybeans to be loaded in August at the nation’s Paranagua port fetched $2.21 a bushel more than Chicago futures as of Friday, the widest gap since data starts in 2014.” 


https://politicalwire.com/2018/07/06/u-s-soybean-prices-crumble/ 

 

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My wife had an interesting experience at the supermarket earlier today. She was looking at watermelons and another shopper volunteered the comment, 'You know those are grown in the US". The groundswell is starting.

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2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

I have to take you off ignore occasionally to see if you have gotten any better informed.  oh well, maybe later.  To be fair Trump knows what he is doing, it's just not anything like what you think. 

Traditional  diplomacy "requests a response", Trump style forces a response, it realy is that simple.

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20 minutes ago, warbird said:

Traditional  diplomacy "requests a response", Trump style forces a response, it realy is that simple.

Ha Ha

BMW threatens to cut jobs and move production out of the USA if Trump puts tariffs on European cars

BERLIN (Reuters) - U.S. tariffs on imported cars could lead BMW to reduce investment and cut jobs in the United States due to the large number of cars it exports from its South Caroline plant, the German carmaker has warned.

President Trump's administration last month launched an investigation into whether auto imports posed a national security threat and Trump has threatened to impose a 20 percent tariff on all imports of EU-assembled cars.

"The domestic manufacture of automobiles has no apparent correlation with U.S. national security," BMW wrote in a letter to U.S. Secretary of Commerce Wilbur Ross this week, adding that imposing duties would not increase U.S. growth and competitiveness.

The BMW plant in South Carolina is its largest globally and ships more than 70 percent of its annual production to other export markets, the company said.

Chinese tariffs on U.S. passenger cars, imposed in retaliation for U.S. duties on Chinese goods, have already hiked up the cost of exporting to China, BMW said. Any U.S. tariffs would likely lead to further retaliatory measures from China and the European Union.

In addition, higher tariffs on components imported to the United States would make other production locations outside the country more competitive.

"All of these factors would substantially increase the costs of exporting passenger cars to these markets from the United States and deteriorate the market access for BMW in these jurisdictions, potentially leading to strongly reduced export volumes and negative effects on investment and employment in the United States," BMW said in the letter.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-bmw-says-us-tariffs-on-eu-cars-may-hit-investment-there-2018-6?utm_source=reddit.com

 

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7 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Probably not the response warbird, or President Trump, expected. 

I expect that as soon as repercussions become widely evident, a lot of people will disappear like Rudy Giuliani has. 

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Reminds me of a conversation with an ex BIL back in the 80's - he was a real good ole boy, wanna be cowboy who said the solution to the oil crisis was simple: a bushel of corn for a barrel of oil. The Saudis want our corn, swap for a barrel of oil.  Simple. 

Meanwhile the hogs in DC are fattening up while the sheep are being shorn.  Note: Trumps cabinet is the wealthiest in history, and so far the most corrupt. 

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9 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

I expect that as soon as repercussions become widely evident, a lot of people will disappear like Rudy Giuliani has. 

Not that I miss him or anything but what's up with the silence? Someone finally catch on to the damage he was doing to his client?

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10 minutes ago, VhmSays said:

Not that I miss him or anything but what's up with the silence? Someone finally catch on to the damage he was doing to his client?

I'm pretty sure it has to do with hints of obstruction when he was waving Trump pardons around. That, and he was pretty much a total failure as a legal cheerleader.

Then again, he could simply be spending intimate moments with his cousin wife.

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

Probably not the response warbird, or President Trump, expected. 

Wait and see...….   Angela Merkel is already bowing in that she is lobbying the EU to reduce import tariffs on USA made autos. Again, Trumps mode forces reaction rather than asking for action.  He is dealing from a position of strength.

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It's usually called being a bully.

It's what he has always done.

I'm sure you admire it.

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

It's usually called being a bully.

It's what he has always done.

I'm sure you admire it.

You seem to try it on often enough.  You're not very good at it though.

 

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1 hour ago, warbird said:

Wait and see...….   Angela Merkel is already bowing in that she is lobbying the EU to reduce import tariffs on USA made autos. Again, Trumps mode forces reaction rather than asking for action.  He is dealing from a position of strength.

You get more from honey than you do with vinegar. Any give by a nation state to a loudmouth arrogant bully will almost guarantee a take in equal measure, you just won't see it coming. 

 

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

You seem to try it on often enough.  You're not very good at it though.

You're not even good at making sense.

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2 hours ago, warbird said:

Wait and see...….   Angela Merkel is already bowing in that she is lobbying the EU to reduce import tariffs on USA made autos. Again, Trumps mode forces reaction rather than asking for action.  He is dealing from a position of strength.

What strength?  It is a large market, yes, but very encumbered by a high debt ratio.  The nations that have taken this course have all failed quite quickly in the manner of the Cheshire Cat.  One of the chief causes of failure is that their isolation does not allow for expansion.  The Canadians will go into a recession because they have been the hewers of wood and carriers of water for the US, but they will find other markets in time.  The US will instead eat its young.  Presenting their goods to the world market at the moment, even in commodities, is presenting to tentative customers.  They will tend to look elsewhere.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

It's usually called being a bully.

It's what he has always done.

I'm sure you admire it.

No...….. it is called the carrot and the stick.  We seem to have the carrot. isn't that great? A friend manages a parts supply chain. He is overwelmed RIGHT now . US manufactures are  abandoning tariffed over seas supplliers for home grown complex parts and assemblies. Some of his customers are in the Gary Indiana area. 0% unemployment there!!!!

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3 minutes ago, warbird said:

Some of his customers are in the Gary Indiana area. 0% unemployment there!!!!

It's gary fucking indiana. even if you have a job you want to get the fuck out asap.

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

 

It's gary fucking indiana. even if you have a job you want to get the fuck out asap.

Gary is where all the jobs from my hometown moved when US Steel shut down our mill.  That was in spite of us shipping product to Gary so they could reship it and claim their wartime production bonus.

After the Union folded some of the Union guys got moved to Gary.  They were really disappointed to find there was no gratitude there and their seniority started on the date they got to Gary.  They already had enough Union bosses.

Fortunately, the only non-union forge and machine shop flourished and the folks who stayed in town did OK.  It's grown quite a bit since then.

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I wonder if any of you guys can remember back to about grade 10 when Peel's Repeal of the Corn Laws was covered?  I was more interested in the charms of the dear Miss Chapman personally and so did not pick up on the enthusiasm of the teacher at the time.  I was not until university that I came to the full realization of its importance to democracy and the continuance of the United States in the period where the US was in a recession,  it had just had a military whack from the Brits and the US farmers had a restricted export market.

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Trump couldn't negotiate a deal with a porn star, was reportedly one of the worst students ever at university, hasn't read a book beyond Mein Kampf in decades and somehow he is going to win a trade war.

you really can't make this shit up.

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25 minutes ago, Laker said:

I wonder if any of you guys can remember back to about grade 10 when Peel's Repeal of the Corn Laws was covered?  I was more interested in the charms of the dear Miss Chapman personally and so did not pick up on the enthusiasm of the teacher at the time.  I was not until university that I came to the full realization of its importance to democracy and the continuance of the United States in the period where the US was in a recession,  it had just had a military whack from the Brits and the US farmers had a restricted export market.

such are the lessons of life

oddly in my insomnia last night I came across a contradiction to a narrative posted upthread. apparently just following the american revolution tea became a status symbol of patriotism in the US because it was now cheaper - sans brit tax (note: the fellow who imposed said taxes died before their effect became widely apparent). that lasted until the war of 1812 when tea became hugely expensive and coffee cheap. it took until the end of the century for tea to recover.

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On 7/6/2018 at 11:52 PM, d'ranger said:

Trump couldn't negotiate a deal with a porn star, was reportedly one of the worst students ever at university, hasn't read a book beyond Mein Kampf in decades and somehow he is going to win a trade war.

you really can't make this shit up.

The Pride of the GOP is smarter than Simple Jack, this I can tell you. Belief me. 

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4 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

The Pride of the GOP is smarter than Simple Jack, this I can tell you. Belief me. 

Not exactly a high bar.

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