QBF

The 2018 Golden Globe Race

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46 minutes ago, N1772 said:

Whats the juries opinion on Silicone based antifoul systems? Hempel have "Silic One" (see what they did there) - the benefit seems to be no copper or biocides - slow boats still need a rub with a sponge occasionally.

Silicone and fluro polymers are not new. I think the only successfull one has been PropSpeed or similiar designed for bits that can't take copper based protection due to galvanic action. That said they are not a match for biocide protection.

The problem is they don't stop slime and once slime starts to form it harbours other organisms that can get a hold on the hull. Those other nasty fouling organisms that previously had difficulty adhering to the silicon or fluro coating start partying, quickly burying through it and setting up shop.

The only way to keep them off in the first place is by keeping the slime off by cleaning and maintaining speed and regular activity level. That is the secret to all antifouling systems working properly. However with these polymers that is in the order of probably more than 10 knots and say 80% activity. How many sailboats do that? You can see that difference in requirement on even a regularly used sailboat by looking at PropSpeed effectiveness on a prop compared to say a neighbouring P bracket or Saildrive gearcase. 

All the manufactures incl the one you mention Hempel conveniently skim over this speed and activity issue with their polymer products.

However the move in environmental regulatory restrictions in this space  to remove copper may mean that is the only option left outside paint infused with garlic and beetle juice of course.

The priorities in environmental protection continue to amaze 

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20 minutes ago, spyderpig said:

Susie Live

I love that one moment when she says (regarding being directed) I was planning to keep sailing (I assume she meant forward) and "I won't do that again", looking directly at Don.

'Nuff said.

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She looks and sounds to be in very good nick. Would be so much further down the track now if she had just driven south on CT approach. Mark Slats was only a couple of hundred in front then, now 1200.

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44 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

She looks and sounds to be in very good nick. Would be so much further down the track now if she had just driven south on CT approach. Mark Slats was only a couple of hundred in front then, now 1200.

To her credit, she put that all on her shoulders.  From her statement it does seem they keep even a loose track on each other since she noted Gergor's more southerly route.  If Uku can't keep a bottom clean (and her comment on that was it's not that bad), I wonder if she can grind him down.  4 Days seems like a lot of time to eat up in these roadsters.

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2 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

If Uku can't keep a bottom clean (and her comment on that was it's not that bad), I wonder if she can grind him down.  4 Days seems like a lot of time to eat up in these roadsters

Breakages up front in the Pacific or park up in the Atlantic somewhere remain her best bet..though by Don's bottom friction/speed calculation he is already parked up and maybe even going backwards by now.

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9 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Breakages up front in the Pacific or park up in the Atlantic somewhere remain her best bet..though by Don's bottom friction/speed calculation he is already parked up and maybe even going backwards by now.


Just need to turn the stern to and the barnacles will propel the boat backwards at "5 knots per hour" 

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Transcript from the interview with Susie ... talking about the storm:

Susie:

“My intention was just to keep sailing and not to do what I did” ...

Don:

”Yeah”

Susie:

”Yeah”

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45 minutes ago, Miffy said:


Just need to turn the stern to and the barnacles will propel the boat backwards at "5 knots per hour" 

And that's just after the first day!  This could be the new RTW paradigm.

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Suzie left about 4 hours ago in good shape. Bottom was pretty clean which my guess is not some magic formula but simply her being more diligent on her maintenance cleaning than some others. The vane was a quick 20 minute fix using a tip from the manufacturer. She looks more relaxed than anyone else through so far with the French maths teacher the exception.

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18 hours ago, spyderpig said:

Susie Live

Susie is one cool girl for sure. The look of joy on her face is something that adventurers all have in common. She should be catching up to her next competitor in a week now that her Hull is clean. 

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On 10/30/2018 at 12:57 PM, jack_sparrow said:
Quote

 

Seems the French maths teacher up front has more than one or two tricks up his sleeve.

https://goldengloberace.com/day-120-barnacles-the-scourge-of-solo-circumnavigators/

 

You may have also noticed in photos, Heede had his hull covered up in Les Sables with a tarpaulin - ie. in the pen the underside was wrapped while awaiting the start - perhaps filled with unsalted water, or, maybe even a chlorine. He is the old man of the fleet as well as the smartest and most well prepared.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

She looks more relaxed than anyone else through so far

True, she looked like she had just come in from a day sail down the coast (which I suppose she had). Not sure how the second half will go now she has eaten all her fruit cakes.

It will be interesting to see how she handles the upcoming storm. She said she has a series drogue but did not prepare it for use in the last one. 

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From GGR:
 

Quote

A Big 24hrs for Susie Goodall Racing and the GGR team and now thinking of Susie now trying to miss a 60kt storm headed her way.

First off, don't sail backwards on bad advice.  From the way it tracks, maybe a northerly route may keep her out of the worst and it will pass quick.  Good that she got her Windvane fixed and I hope that a clean bottom can help catch up to Uku.

The one to worry about regarding the storm coming is Uku for he's heading south and this may wash right over him.  Perhaps it may help get the barnacles off his bottom.

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6 hours ago, bucc5062 said:

From GGR:
 

First off, don't sail backwards on bad advice.  From the way it tracks, maybe a northerly route may keep her out of the worst and it will pass quick.  Good that she got her Windvane fixed and I hope that a clean bottom can help catch up to Uku.

The one to worry about regarding the storm coming is Uku for he's heading south and this may wash right over him.  Perhaps it may help get the barnacles off his bottom.

Looks as if Susie is planning to stay at or north of her current latitude which should keep her out of the worst of the breeze. According to most of the models Uku should only catch the northern edge of it too. Shouldn't be any cross seas and Susie will be in the lee of Tassie so there won't be much fetch. 

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Susie is tucked up in Safety Cove.

 

Very nice spot but not that good for her progress home.

 

Wonder what has taken her in there?

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2 hours ago, Pipe Dream said:

Susie is tucked up in Safety Cove.

 

Very nice spot but not that good for her progress home.

 

Wonder what has taken her in there?

The forecast 

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Windy is showing gusts of 50+ knots at Maatsuyker Island, starting about 24 hours from now and peaking around 48 hours from now so she's doing the smart thing.

It's one thing to be hammered when you're out there and can't get out of the way but there's no sense in looking for it.

She'll be fine where she is and a good chance to rest, clean the bottom and look for trouble.

Tasman Island is the nearest weather station but it's 900 ft asl and is in the lee of Tasmania.  Port Arthur is closer but is protected.

Edit;  "Protected" is relative.  I just looked at Port Arthur and they're expecting 55 knot gusts.

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Looks like Tapio is in for a pretty awful 24-36 hours starting soon.  I wonder if Istvan can turn the corner and find shelter before it hits.  It could get really nasty for him in a hurry if he doesn't.

In other news, Sinclair finally caught up to Gregor's boat.  It looks like he passed within 3-4 miles of it.

I'm starting to be oddly fascinated by Igor.  If he somehow gets all the way around the planet, it'll probably take him a full year at the rate he's been going.  After all this time, he's STILL closer to Madagascar than Australia.

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Quote

 

14642218_1757659077820816_51323173134255
 
 

UPDATE; Message from Tapio Lehtinen Sailing STORM JIB, STAYSAIL, 2.REEF, READY 2 SHORTEN, HEADING NE,F4F:) Position: 43' 27.203 S 137' 18.379 E at 01 Nov 12:29 UTC ..winds are starting to increase slowly in his position now. .....all our thoughts for now are with Tapio..GOOD LUCK!!

Istvan Kopar Solo Circumnavigator just called to advise he is sailing in 45kts now and has seen Matsyker island light. He is considering to make for RECHERCHE BAY just behind SOUTH EAST CAPE of Tasmania to seek PORT OF REFUGE then anchor and sit out the storm. He could be there in the next 8-10 hours or around midday local time. He has good anchoring gear onboard.

It is raining in Hobart right now so hopefully Susie Goodall Racing is catching some. The forecast storm for Uku Randmaa Golden Globe Race 2018 is changing a little so he may get some strong winds on the Southern tip of it in a few days as it heads across the Tasman. Jean Luc Vandenheede looks like he may race so fast to the east that he will get past a strong southerly storm approaching his position that may then pass behind him!!

Mark Slats is enjoying the sailing and Mark Sinclair has found Gregor McGuckin yacht and taken photos. He reports the AIS beacon is still operational and it is floating high in the water.

Игорь Зарецкий IGOR is still intending to head to St Paul Island..

Don... #GGR2018

 

 

Don says Igor is head for St Paul Island but he is still north of Amsterdam Is. 

Looks like Istvan should make it around the corner before the wind properly arrives. 

I wish Don would stop inflating the wind speeds and quoting gusts rather than wind speed as we know it. Gusts are irrelevant in reporting and story telling. 

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It looks like Istvan will be coming into D'Entrecasteaux Channel, smart move because it's starting to blow now.  He'd be wise to anchor in Recherche or further up the Channel; trying to meet Don near Kingston will be difficult.

Tapio will just have to ride it out.

I can't speak for whatever Don is reporting but I quote gusts because, in the prevailing westerlies here, the average wind may be ten knots, while the gusts will be two or three times that.  At sea, average wind is what it's all about; here, it's the gusts that flatten you or shred the boat.

We currently have 28 knots, gusting 51, typical for a westerly, with a bit more to come.

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Sure looks like Uku would be safer if he didn't have to observe the seemingly arbitrary waypoint off NZ.

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5 hours ago, littlechay said:

Istvan Kopar Solo Circumnavigator just called to advise he is sailing in 45kts now and has seen Matsyker island light. He is considering to make for RECHERCHE BAY just behind SOUTH EAST CAPE of Tasmania to seek PORT OF REFUGE then anchor and sit out the storm. He could be there in the next 8-10 hours or around midday local time. He has good anchoring gear onboard.

Kopar got a time penalty for anchoring in the Verdes....another rule change???

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2 hours ago, harrygee said:

It looks like Istvan will be coming into D'Entrecasteaux Channel, smart move because it's starting to blow now.  He'd be wise to anchor in Recherche or further up the Channel; trying to meet Don near Kingston will be difficult.

Tapio will just have to ride it out.

I can't speak for whatever Don is reporting but I quote gusts because, in the prevailing westerlies here, the average wind may be ten knots, while the gusts will be two or three times that.  At sea, average wind is what it's all about; here, it's the gusts that flatten you or shred the boat.

We currently have 28 knots, gusting 51, typical for a westerly, with a bit more to come.

Yea but if you say that the TWS is 28 anybody with any grey matter knows that in terrain like that it will be gusting around 50, more in some places less in others. Stating it is superflous. 

A bit like many sailors with 20m masts claiming they are sailing in 50 knots because that is what ther windy meter says...  Now if they had another windy meter at 10m their story wouldnt be half as good.... 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Kopar got a time penalty for anchoring in the Verdes....another rule change???

Looks like it.  Guess that both of them will have to do 720..

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Kopar got a time penalty for anchoring in the Verdes....another rule change???

No, he didn't get the time penalty for anchoring. " the Race Organisers agreed instead to impose a 24-hour time penalty for inappropriate use of his satellite phone and the outside assistance gained from the navigation advice he received. "

https://goldengloberace.com/prb-leads-but-is-the-computer-right/

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At the moment, BOM says the higest gust at Cape Bruny is 57 knots, Tasman Island is 62 knots.

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NoR and FAQ make it quite clear that you are allowed to anchor, but not in a port. You are also allowed to moor. What would that mean, if you are not allowed to do that in a port?

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I wonder if Uku will be allowed to ignore the Snares Island waypoint without penalty? He is already South of it and 200 miles West and heading further South to try and avoid the worst of the Storm. I am sure the RO will have told him to go South.

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I'm totally fascinated with Istvan and Mark at the back. 

 

How have they managed to go so slow?

Surely these boats aren't too hard to get to hull speed at least. 

Going so slow is as impressive to me as VDH's speed has been. 

 

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1 hour ago, Icedtea said:

I'm totally fascinated with Istvan and Mark at the back. 

 

How have they managed to go so slow?

Surely these boats aren't too hard to get to hull speed at least. 

Going so slow is as impressive to me as VDH's speed has been. 

 

You must mean Igor and Mark who are about 6000 M behind VDH and have average speed well under 4 knots. Even VDH has average speed under 6 knots while hull speed with 8 m LWL is 6.9 knots and these boats should reach that speed in most wind directions already at 12 knots wind. At 20 knots they should sail over 7 knots to all directions except beat.

It's difficult understand the slowness of all except VDH. Maybe barnacles are the reason. We already know that Uku and Tapio have a big problem with them. Maybe Igor and Mark have even worse.

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1 hour ago, Joakim said:

You must mean Igor and Mark who are about 6000 M behind VDH and have average speed well under 4 knots. Even VDH has average speed under 6 knots while hull speed with 8 m LWL is 6.9 knots and these boats should reach that speed in most wind directions already at 12 knots wind. At 20 knots they should sail over 7 knots to all directions except beat.

It's difficult understand the slowness of all except VDH. Maybe barnacles are the reason. We already know that Uku and Tapio have a big problem with them. Maybe Igor and Mark have even worse.

Talent, experience, and willingness to push the boat?  Had Peche not had his equipment failure I think the front would have been an interesting race for both of those skippers came to win this race.  They both made decent routing calls, they both kept better speeds overall and seemed well prepared for dealing with weather.  The rest maybe not so in varying degrees.  I feel Susie has sailed well, but by her own admission, made some rookie mistakes that at the moment has cost her a podium position.

 

While I respect and understand her decision to hunker down till this storm passes, it is a blessing to Kopar for it closes the gap even more between her and a blessing to Uku since (if he survives) puts more miles in the bank that even with his voyage of the damned barnacle encrusted hull, he may be able to stay ahead of what ever 4th place boat is behind him.  Being the youngest skipper in the race,  certainly less experienced, Susie has done a yoman's effort in getting to 4th and I hope she can carry it through to the end.

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11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Kopar got a time penalty for anchoring in the Verdes....another rule change???

 

6 hours ago, Joakim said:

No, he didn't get the time penalty for anchoring. " the Race Organisers agreed instead to impose a 24-hour time penalty for inappropriate use of his satellite phone and the outside assistance gained from the navigation advice he received. "

https://goldengloberace.com/prb-leads-but-is-the-computer-right/

Wrong.

It was a 18 hour for outside assistance/sat phone penalty plus 6 hour penalty for anchoring in a place the RO didn't like (on a arbitary basis of what is a port or not) despite receiving no outside assistance there at anchor. What has changed with regard to Kopars 6 hour penalty incurred for anchoring then in the Verdes and now in Tasmania? 

Put that question aside it was also a penalty structure not referenced in the SI's, let alone being one that catapulted a competitor back and fowards from Racing to Chichester then back to Racing Division at the RO's sole discretion and not at the hand of the mystery Jury referenced in the SI's that clearly doesn't exist.

If that evidence above does not warrant my post based upon the RO picking rules out of his arse and which you question my viewpoint, well please educate me.

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11 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Kopar got a time penalty for anchoring in the Verdes....another rule change???

They are allowed to anchor in a bay or behind an island for seeking shelter og doing repairs, but not in a port. In Cape Verde, Kopar did achor inside the boudaries of the port, sort of, so they gave him initally a penalty of Chichester Class, then 6 hours for anchoring and 18 hours for the sat phone calls/receiving navigation advises. But as he never went inside the marina or alongside quay they changed their minds AGAIN and changed it to 24 hrs pentalty for the use of his sat phone!

GGR Press release July 27th:

FINDINGS

  1.  GGR may make exceptions in the Application of the Rules. NOR 3.2
  2.  In the spirit of the GGR and accepting stress may have confused ISTVAN on Rule interpretation and on the basis that no real or materiel advantage has been provided to ISTVAN through the inappropriate use of his satellite phone and his stop in Port, an alternate time penalty has been decided.
  3.  For breaching NOR 3.1.4 an 18-hour time penalty is given.
  4.  For breaching NOR 3.1.5 a 6-hour time penalty is given.
  5.  ISTVAN will now move from CHICHESTER CLASS back into the GGR ENTRANT status.

GGR Press realease July 30th:

In the spirit of the Golden Glone Race, the Race Organisers agreed instead to impose a 24-hour time penalty for inappropriate use of his satellite phone and the outside assistance gained from the navigation advice he received.

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I suppose it's entirely possible that Kopar could pass Susie at some point and finish less than 24 hours ahead of her, so that penalty could wind up mattering in the end.  Particularly if Uku has a barnacle farm and the both catch him.

I'm curious to see when Susie weighs anchor.  8-10 hours from now, she's be venturing out after the worst of it, but still in 25-30 kts with presumably some ugly gusts.  16-20 hours from now, she could go out in more like 20-25.  Probably a full day from now if she wants to depart in less than 20.

Wave conditions look pretty bad even beyond another day, though, even if she stays somewhat in Tasmania's lee.

In the meantime, I'm also wondering if Kopar will be able to head for Hobart sooner versus later than Susie's departure.  On the one hand, it's more protected in there so sailing conditions will be more reasonable sooner...  On the other hand, Susie can go almost directly to open ocean whereas Kopar must navigate safely in tight quarters, so she can presumably accept more breeze at her departure time than him.

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2 hours ago, LOK77 said:

They are allowed to anchor in a bay or behind an island for seeking shelter og doing repairs, but not in a port. 

OK...first what is a "port" as defined by the GGR? 

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

OK...first what is a "port" as defined by the GGR? 


Should use admiralty nautical charts from 1968 - if there's no dock in 1968, it doesn't exist now.

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1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

I suppose it's entirely possible that Kopar could pass Susie at some point and finish less than 24 hours ahead of her, so that penalty could wind up mattering in the end.  Particularly if Uku has a barnacle farm and the both catch him.

I'm curious to see when Susie weighs anchor.  8-10 hours from now, she's be venturing out after the worst of it, but still in 25-30 kts with presumably some ugly gusts.  16-20 hours from now, she could go out in more like 20-25.  Probably a full day from now if she wants to depart in less than 20.

Wave conditions look pretty bad even beyond another day, though, even if she stays somewhat in Tasmania's lee.

In the meantime, I'm also wondering if Kopar will be able to head for Hobart sooner versus later than Susie's departure.  On the one hand, it's more protected in there so sailing conditions will be more reasonable sooner...  On the other hand, Susie can go almost directly to open ocean whereas Kopar must navigate safely in tight quarters, so she can presumably accept more breeze at her departure time than him.

Looking at just the wind, sooner would be better for after 24 hours it starts to fade quickly and she may not want to be caught in that.  It seems like the waves would be stern quartering on the way out which could make for a rolly period, but she could also make good time ahead of Kopar who would still need to get to Hobart.  Tough call, but I think she's got the grit and has learned some from the last blow to handle conditions as they slide away from her.

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Don't know about this hideout concept. 

If the French maths teacher was in Suzie's position, do you think he would hang back, or keep going?

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2 hours ago, Miffy said:


Should use admiralty nautical charts from 1968 - if there's no dock in 1968, it doesn't exist now.

ha ha!

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The French maths teacher would be going.

Do we know what he uses as storm tactics? Interesting that with these boats keep going appears to be the better strategy.

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't know about this hideout concept. 

If the French maths teacher was in Suzie's position, do you think he would hang back, or keep going?

Cape Bruny 69 knot gusts this morning, Tasman Island 53 knots.

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Susie wants to give up.  Don't know why Uku dived south the forecast was never terrible for staying north. 

Quote
14642218_1757659077820816_51323173134255
 
 

Latest satellite Tweets from the GGR fleet !! #GGR2018

Tapio : SHORTENING PROACTIVELY,STAYSAIL 1/2 ROLLED,3RD REEF,BACK2BUNK /
"Réduisant pro-activement, trinquette 1/2 enroulée, 3ème ris, retour dans ma couchette"

...See more
Latest satellite Tweets from the GGR fleet !! #GGR2018

Tapio : SHORTENING PROACTIVELY,STAYSAIL 1/2 ROLLED,3RD REEF,BACK2BUNK /
"Réduisant pro-activement, trinquette 1/2 enroulée, 3ème ris, retour dans ma couchette"

Jean-Luc: November is here! Léquivalent of may home eole lesaitjespere /
"November is here! the equivalent of May for us EOLE knows it i hope"

Susie : JUSTWANNAGIVEUP /
"just want to give up"

Uku : ALL OK. 1f642.png:) /
" it's all right. 1f642.png:) "

Tapio : REEF4(EQUALS TRYSAIL),1/6STAYSAIL,STORM JIB,PLOUGHING ENE, OK /
"Ris 4 (équivalent voile tempête), 1/6 trinquette, tourmentin, naviguant ENE, OK"

Igor : ESMERALDA OK 

Coconut : NOTE ABANDONED VESSEL AIS OPERATING,MY AIS ALARM at APROX 2NM /
"to note ship abandoned ais operating, my alarm ais at approx 2 NM"

Jean-Luc: it's a little too bad! It was perfect 170 miles in 24 hours. I /
"It's softening a little what a shame! IT WAS PERFECT 170MILLES IN 24H.I"

Mark Slats: GOOD SAILING HERE BEST OFF LUCK FOR TAPIO AND UKU H /
"good navigation here, best of luck to tapio and uku h"

Tapio : IMPRESSIVE SCENERY IN THE SUN, STRONGEST YET 2 COME, BARO RSNG /
"impressive landscape in the sun, the strongest yet to come, baro rsng"

 

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19 hours ago, Your Mom said:

Sure looks like Uku would be safer if he didn't have to observe the seemingly arbitrary waypoint off NZ.

 

12 hours ago, spyderpig said:

I wonder if Uku will be allowed to ignore the Snares Island waypoint without penalty? He is already South of it and 200 miles West and heading further South to try and avoid the worst of the Storm. I am sure the RO will have told him to go South.

It seems like the RO likes to put a lot points on the map.  If the justification for this point was for safety, it doesn't seem to be working.

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36 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Susie wants to give up.  Don't know why Uku dived south the forecast was never terrible for staying north. 

 

Having a closer look. It looks as if Uku will be close to Snares Is. when he gets the worst of the weather. At least being down there he has sea room; provided he doesn't hit the island. Looks like he'll get 40 knots or so so should be fine. 

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Istvan is in Dover, which is probably closer to being a port than Recherche would have been.  Dover has many moorings, jetty, fish-farm infrastructure.

Recherche offers better protection for the westerlies we've been getting but he's maybe thinking ahead - getting out of Recherche in the current conditions can be pretty daunting.

Conditions now are good in the channel and navigating is not challenging, apart from the Middleton beacon, which is well charted and a conspicuous red mark (to port).  If he moved now, he'd have a choice of good anchorages close to his rendezvous with Don.

Susie will be going through mental gymnastics, snug in a good anchorage and faced with having to get out there, where four of her peers have been rolled/dismasted/injured.

The most exposed weather station on our southern coast is Maatsuyker Island, which gives a pretty good indication of conditions, though it suffers from a bit of compression so wind speed and gusts are exaggerated somewhat.  Not a lot.  Maatsuyker had up to70 knots last night.

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8 hours ago, spyderpig said:

Susie making a middle of the night escape. I wish her well.

That would have taken some mental prodding.  Snug in a cosey anchorage, black night, forty knots and a washing-machine sea until she got well out.

Tough lady, good on her.

Istvan is making his way up the channel, which is going to be a slow beat until later this afternoon.

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I just noticed an interesting stat roll over. Heede has now stretched his lead over Slats to 2,000 mile, 1,400 of that since rounding the Cape Town marker. That's not only a class act but begs the question... is there anyone out there not in this race who could match him?

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^^^ No matter how good they are.. dunno whether too many youngsters can cop 7 months at the wheel.

Of grey haired brigade I would put Loïck Peyron up as a contender. 

At the other end of the spectrum starting in 3 minutes..btw he is in this race in a 35 yo timber tri.

 

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6 hours ago, spyderpig said:

Gabart

I don't think so. Sure he is fast and has the drive; but this is whole different ball game of all aspects of seamanship and knowledge.  

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The clear distinction is that VDH is professional in his approach.  His "magic" is that he understands and is intense in preparation and a close reading of the rules and the limitations of the platform.  Add experience and he is 

Desjoyeaux, Peyron, MacArthur, Joyon.  There are a large number of potential - mostly French - sailors who could emulate VDH. But, frankly, why would they.  

This race proves nothing and makes no advances.  No lessons learned, other than that, beyond a doubt, that naval architecture and sailing have advanced dramatically since 1968.  

Other than:  Boats that can get out their own way are safer and.... don't sail backwards.

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This race arbitrary progression, subject to the arbitrary and often contradictory whims of a self-aggrandizing narcissist, proves nothing and makes no advances.

 

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19 minutes ago, Moonduster said:

This race arbitrary progression, subject to the arbitrary and often contradictory whims of a self-aggrandizing narcissist, proves nothing and makes no advances.

 

Sounds like the White House foreign policy.

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1 hour ago, Moonduster said:

This race arbitrary progression, subject to the arbitrary and often contradictory whims of a self-aggrandizing narcissist, proves nothing and makes no advances.

 

Who is giving a talk at the RYCT tomorrow night...

i don’t trust myself enough to go along.

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Oh go on.  The participants on this forum could give you a list of questions (in addition to your own).  Sure to get you thrown out of RYCT.

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5 hours ago, Left Shift said:

  There are a large number of potential - mostly French - sailors who could emulate VDH. But, frankly, why would they 

You forget Peche (a RTW multi sailor) hit the start line.

You would be surprised what people do. Loïck Peyron is around 60 yo with a offshore  record as long as your arm. Won his first Mini Transat 40 years ago. As late as 4 years ago won the Route du Rhum setting a new record.

He still lines up at the start of many races but with one twist, he now does it old boats.

In 2016 for the Single-Handed Trans-Atlantic Race it was on Pen Duick II, the same boat sailed by Éric Tabarly to win the same race in 1964. For the last two Route du Rhum's incl the one that started yesterday he is on his 31' 36 year old Tri called "Happy". 

Happy is sistership to Olympus Photo, in which bizzare as it sounds, a Canadian won the first Route du Rhum in 1978. More bizzare Malinovsky in the 70' mono Kriter was expected to win, but losing by a couple of minutes to this 31' tri. The astonishing win no doubt cemented France's enduring fascinating with multihulls.

Yesterday the race start was live on French TV for 2 hours or so,  Peyron and Happy got as much coverage, if not more than the leading big tri's, IMOCA 60's and Class 40's.

Never try and judge people's mood when it comes to nostalgia, they can sometimes surprise, and it doesn't have to be devoid of modern electronics like being done here.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

You forget Peche (a RTW multi sailor) hit the start line.

You would be surprised what people do. Loïck Peyron is around 60 yo with a offshore  record as long as your arm. Won his first Mini Transat 40 years ago. As late as 4 years ago won the Route du Rhum setting a new record.

He still lines up at the start of many races but with one twist, he now does it old boats.

In 2016 for the Single-Handed Trans-Atlantic Race it was on Pen Duick II, the same boat sailed by Éric Tabarly to win the same race in 1964. For the last two Route du Rhum's incl the one that started yesterday he is on his 31' 36 year old Tri called "Happy". 

Happy is sistership to Olympus Photo, in which bizzare as it sounds, a Canadian won the first Route du Rhum in 1978. More bizzare Malinovsky in the 70' mono Kriter was expected to win, but losing by a couple of minutes to this 31' tri. The astonishing win no doubt cemented France's enduring fascinating with multihulls.

Yesterday the race start was live on French TV for 2 hours or so,  Peyron and Happy got as much coverage, if not more than the leading big tri's, IMOCA 60's and Class 40's.

Never try and judge people's mood when it comes to nostalgia, they can sometimes surprise, and it doesn't have to be devoid of modern electronics like being done here.

 

 

I did forget about Peche, vous avez raison.  But I wonder if he would still be enthusiastic about the curious state of the "race" management at this point.

Peyron is one of the most interesting characters in all sailing.  He will jump from his "Happy" onto a super-foiler then into a star and then on to an AC50.  So I'm not so sure it is nostalgia that drives him, but a rampant curiosity and enthusiasm for sailing. 

Professionally he can no longer keep up with the Gabbarts of the world on massive boats over long distances, so he finds ways to play where he can have fun and perhaps some success.  And it is clear that "Happy" is very well prepared.   He also nailed the start.  

I also expect that he enjoys the attention as well.  He is a showman.  Note that the RdR French telecast picked him to be one of the four featured sailors with live cameras on board.  

 

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

I also expect that he enjoys the attention as well.  He is a showman.  Note that the RdR French telecast picked him to be one of the four featured sailors with live cameras on board.  

The point of that is there is a public appetite for sailing nostalgia. To first capture that public interest doesn't mean they have to be out there blind to the weather and unable to properly communicate what they are doing. A point the RO of this race has missed and as a consequence it is not fueling that public appetite.

There is a greater following for fuzzball than this race.

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46 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

The point of that is there is a public appetite for sailing nostalgia. To first capture that public interest doesn't mean they have to be out there blind to the weather and unable to properly communicate what they are doing. A point the RO of this race has missed and as a consequence it is not fueling that public appetite.

There is a greater following for fuzzball than this race.

But they don't want to get too close to the event.  Of course, once inside....Meh.  Kind of like this "race".

th.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Left Shift said:

But I wonder if he would still be enthusiastic about the curious state of the "race" management at this point.

He (Peyron) wouldn't touch this race with a barge pole in its current format is my guess. Peche pretty well expressed his frustration about race rules and would indirectly be speaking on behalf of many French ex pros. 

The French have actually signalled what is wrong with large aspects of this race, however the RO I suspect is blind to that.

For instance Peche has put the spotlight on poorly crafted and administered race rules.

Another is the RO's thinking that "mirroring the original" is the foundation to "authenticity and public acceptance". That concept has already been blown out of the water. That was the RO being forced at the 11th hour to move the traditional start/finish line from England to France on account he couldn't get a Pommy local authority to assist in funding the beginning and the end of this re-creation.

The irony is that move may have saved it where the net result is the majority of race followers now are French, assisted by two of the top three pre-start favourites (Heede & Peche) being French. In 1968 the Sunday Times provided race coverage in English, now L'Équipe puts it on the newstands in French.

The sponsors of those two are major French centric companys, one PBL with a long history of sporting sponsorship. The next in line would English Suzie and DHL, who while not having the French level of home grown exposure is an international outfit with US roots now owned by Deutsche Post. I suspect they also use Suzie to tie their far flung outposts together with a common interest outside the business. Beyond those three, little corporate interest and little RoI for those that have sponsored. Even for those entrants maybe not looking for dollars, but some form of nationalist support, that has born little joy, unless they happen to need rescuing.

This is solely because there is no public friendly means for distributing media content in relative real time as to what is going on the race course and in a wider public friendly format. BTW even the 35mm film and Super8 nonsence has yet to see the light of day, despite the first drop off in the Canaries occuring eons ago.

The irony is the person feeling the most pain now for prosecuting this "mirror of the original" approach is the RO. He is now holed up in Tasmania living in a caravan begging to get some race sponsorship having failed to get anything significant to-date. That is not through want of trying I'm sure. I imagine there is an artist mock-up of a "L'Équipe Golden Globe Race" logo buried in a cupboard somewhere after they were informed they could only get on-board imagery after the race had finished.

The million dollar question is whether he has heard these French messages and endevours to correct them for the proposed next edition?

My guess pretty unlikely even when translated into English. 

C2kclHEXcAEovDD.jpg

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46 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

He (Peyron) wouldn't touch this race with a barge pole in its current format is my guess. Peche pretty well expressed his frustration about race rules and would indirectly be speaking on behalf of many French ex pros. 

The French have actually signalled what is wrong with large aspects of this race, however the RO I suspect is blind to that.

For instance Peche has put the spotlight on poorly crafted and administered race rules.

Another is the RO's thinking that "mirroring the original" is the foundation to "authenticity and public acceptance". That concept has already been blown out of the water. That was the RO being forced at the 11th hour to move the traditional start/finish line from England to France on account he couldn't get a Pommy local authority to assist in funding the beginning and the end of this re-creation.

The irony is that move may have saved it where the net result is the majority of race followers now are French, assisted by two of the top three pre-start favourites (Heede & Peche) being French. In 1968 the Sunday Times provided race coverage in English, now L'Équipe puts it on the newstands in French.

The sponsors of those two are major French centric companys, one PBL with a long history of sporting sponsorship. The next in line would English Suzie and DHL, who while not having the French level of home grown exposure is an international outfit with US roots now owned by Deutsche Post. I suspect they also use Suzie to tie their far flung outposts together with a common interest outside the business. Beyond those three, little corporate interest and little RoI for those that have sponsored. Even for those entrants maybe not looking for dollars, but some form of nationalist support, that has born little joy, unless they happen to need rescuing.

This is solely because there is no public friendly means for distributing media content in relative real time as to what is going on the race course and in a wider public friendly format. BTW even the 35mm film and Super8 nonsence has yet to see the light of day, despite the first drop off in the Canaries occuring eons ago.

The irony is the person feeling the most pain now for prosecuting this "mirror of the original" approach is the RO. He is now holed up in Tasmania living in a caravan begging to get some race sponsorship having failed to get anything significant to-date. That is not through want of trying I'm sure. I imagine there is an artist mock-up of a "L'Équipe Golden Globe Race" logo buried in a cupboard somewhere after they were informed they could only get on-board imagery after the race had finished.

The million dollar question is whether he has heard these French messages and endevours to correct them for the proposed next edition?

My guess pretty unlikely even when translated into English. 

 

Yes to all of that and in response to the bold: by putting on their own event the long route.. There isn't room for two of these events IMO 

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29 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Yes to all of that and in response to the bold: by putting on their own event the long route.. There isn't room for two of these events IMO 

There is an interesting French v Anglo historical comparison to the GGR and Long Route and precedent where one race killed off the other but with both dying in a ditch after only one outing each.

Loïck Peyron's older brother Bruno Peyron, in 2000 was the RO for the first ever non-stop, no-rules, no-limits, RtW race with a $2 million US prize money called The Race. The inaugral race was won by Grant Dalton on Club Med a 110' cat.

A second race was planned by Peyron for 2004, but was cancelled when that stupid woman Tracy Edwards organised a competing RtW Race in identical open craft called Oryx Quest which started and finished in the Middle East. The boat that won (one of four entered, two finished) was Brian Thompson the Brit on Dalton's old cat now owned by Tracy. The camel jockeys weren't to happy, didn't pay the bills and sent her broke.

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13 hours ago, Moonduster said:

This race arbitrary progression, subject to the arbitrary and often contradictory whims of a self-aggrandizing narcissist, proves nothing and makes no advances.

 

 

12 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Sounds like the White House foreign policy.

 

11 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Who is giving a talk at the RYCT tomorrow night...

i don’t trust myself enough to go along.

 

10 hours ago, DtM said:

Oh go on.  The participants on this forum could give you a list of questions (in addition to your own).  Sure to get you thrown out of RYCT.

Olaf hope you go and if so can't wait for your run down of what he said and the Q&A. You have enough material from here to set the RCYT room alight for the latter. That said maybe you best not quote Moon.

The beauty is whilst the poor bugger pretends this thread doesn't exist, (never seen a linky to here?) my guess is he dials up this room every morning upon waking to help script HQ's media play for the days ahead.

So we are essentially unpaid and unrecognised GGR advisors sitting in the monkey seats and treated accordingly by the RO, so maybe you should wear a monkey suit on the evening so he knows of a place you hang out?

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On 11/2/2018 at 11:53 PM, LOK77 said:

They are allowed to anchor in a bay or behind an island for seeking shelter og doing repairs, but not in a port. 

 

On 11/3/2018 at 2:33 AM, jack_sparrow said:

 OK...first what is a "port" as defined by the GGR? 

LOK having regard for recent anchoring in Tasmania and you repeating my post about race rules and penalties in reply that applied to Kopar then but not now, but indicating I had no idea, which was all a bit weird.

Have have you now had a chance over the subsequent few days to answer my question about "port definition" in the rules of race?

Don't worry if you now feel embarrassed, I'm just giving @olaf hart a few Q&A tips.

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I can’t be bothered going, and my bullshit threshold is so low at my age I can’t trust myself to be civil.

here is my take on this clusterf**k

This guy had a bright idea to turn the clock back fifty years in time to a race when only one person made it home, one went nuts and sailed off to the South Pacific, another went nuts and topped himself.

he thought it was a good idea to sit around at sea for three hundred days when racers are now doing the distance in sixty days, so five times the chance of being caught in a dangerous weather pattern.

he thought it would be a good idea to go around in full keel clunkers, when decent boats were already available in 1968, such as the newly designed S&S 34. The only reason people sailed these old tubs in the first race was convention, but fin keelers and wind vanes were already available.

he thought it would be a good idea to take navigation back fifty years as well, so some competitors don’t know where they are.

he also thought is was a good idea to forgo weather routing, so these old tubs loaded down with mussels are sitting ducks in storm fronts and losing their rigs. Never mind the leader is somehow being given de facto routing information via SSB, and streeting the other competitors.

and the thing that really pisses me off is he is expecting to freeload on the SOS services of countries and boats in the southern ocean to bail him out.

and then planning the next race to do the same thing all over again, he really needs to take out insurance against being billed for recovery next time round, or maybe we will all end up paying for his lack of judgement.

That’s why I don’t trust myself going along to hear him talk..

 

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31 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

 I can’t be bothered going, and my bullshit threshold is so low at my age I can’t trust myself to be civil.

here is my take on this clusterf**k

This guy had a bright idea to turn the clock back fifty years in time to a race when only one person made it home, one went nuts and sailed off to the South Pacific, another went nuts and topped himself.

Olaf that is a crying shame. But realistically mate probably you shouldn't go as your memory isn't good.

You missed Tetley..that was two not one who topped themselves courtesy of the 1968 GGR. More to the point the same designer of their boats (Piver) who was lost at sea the same year in 1968 tuning up his own multi for the 1968 OSTAR. The Piver curse, the curse of 1968? Maybe someone should keep an eye on the current RO?

Tetley's legacy of being the first to go around Cape Horn in a multi, albeit sinking shortly afterwards, is a major sailing milestone over shadowed by the circumstances of his death. Look what happened since he did that and nearly solely by French sailors embracing his achievement to this day.

If you had given more warning of your non attendance I would have flown to Tasmania to hold your hand... however finding us two monkey suits would have been your responsibility.

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Yeah, I am not paying much attention to this race, even though the (remaining) competitors are sailing past my backyard on the way to their first waypoint.

i just hope they all make it home safely, not many SOS resources once they are past NZ apart from Chinese and Japanese fishing boats in stealth mode with their AIS turned off...

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41 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Never mind the leader is somehow being given de facto routing information via SSB, and streeting the other competitors.

That is bullshit Olaf indicating a breech of rules of race by the maths teacher...mate wheel yourself off to the naughty corner for a belting by Nurse Ratchet. I can see know it is lucky you don't attend, you would depart covered in egg.

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19 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Olaf that is a crying shame. But realistically mate probably you shouldn't go as your memory isn't good.

You missed Tetley..that was two not one who topped themselves courtesy of the 1968 GGR. More to the point the same designer of their boats (Piver) who was lost at sea the same year in 1968 tuning up his own multi for the 1968 OSTAR. The Piver curse, the curse of 1968? Maybe someone should keep an eye on the current RO?

Tetley's legacy of being the first to go around Cape Horn in a multi, albeit sinking shortly afterwards, is a major sailing milestone over shadowed by the circumstances of his death. Look what happened since he did that and nearly solely by French sailors embracing his achievement to this day.

If you had given more warning of your non attendance I would have flown to Tasmania to hold your hand... however finding us two monkey suits would have been your responsibility.

Tetley didn’t die, he was rescued from his liferaft after his boat sank near the Azores,

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50 minutes ago, olaf hart said:

Tetley didn’t die, he was rescued from his liferaft after his boat sank near the Azores,

Olaf I said ..

1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

You missed Tetley..that was two not one who topped themselves courtesy of the 1968 GGR. 

As you are not great at listening or it seems English comprehension with that grumpy reply.

Tetley was awarded a £1,000 consolation prize by the Sunday Times organisers of the 1968 GGR. By now he was obsessed with properly completing a circumnavigation, so he used the money to immediately start building a new trimaran, which he called the "Miss Vicky".

Tetley was never able to raise enough money to completely outfit "Miss Vicky". He went missing in February 1972. His body was found hanging from a tree. At the coroner's inquest, it was revealed that the body had been discovered clothed in lingerie and his hands were bound behind his back. 

Olaf I'm quite offended by my knowledge and recollection of nautical history and race boat  history in particular being challenged. This particular instance does stick in my mind though for reasons quite obvious.

As I said the Piver and 1968 races curse. I have no information on Arthur Piver (designer of both GGR suicide boats) leaving San Fransisco in 1968 tuning up for his OSTAR race wearing a dress before he was lost just in case you want to question what I know about that. I have no recollection of his boats name but my guess is it wasn't Chuck.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

LOK having regard for recent anchoring in Tasmania and you repeating my post about race rules and penalties in reply that applied to Kopar then but not now, but indicating I had no idea, which was all a bit weird.

Have have you now had a chance over the subsequent few days to answer my question about "port definition" in the rules of race?

Don't worry if you now feel embarrassed, I'm just giving @olaf hart a few Q&A tips.

Jack, sorry for late reply. I cannot find any definitions of 'port' in the GGR Notice of Race, but the rules about stopover in port are in chapter 3.1.5 and 3.1.8. 

 

Chapter 3.1.5 says the entrants are allowed to anchor or moor, but 3.1.8 says any unapproved stopover in port is not. So I guess they have to ask for approval when entering any kind of port, but they are free to drop anchor outside a port. However, both rules do not always match with what the RO says in his Facebook broadcasts...

3.1.5 Docking conditions

A skipper will not be allowed to enter any port to dock or moor at a quay or come

alongside another vessel, or go ashore above the limit of the highest level of high

tide. A skipper can moor or anchor by his/her own means but without any outside

assistance to carry out repairs vital to his/her safety or that of his/her boat and/or

which would enable him/her to finish the GGR.

 

3.1.8 Stopovers or assistance

If for any reason whatsoever, an entrant receives materiel assistance of any kind or

makes an unapproved stopover in a port, then after consideration of all the facts

and at the sole discretion of the GGR Director the entrant will be automatically

placed in the Chichester one-stop class and will not be eligible for any official

Golden Globe trophies, Finishing fee, Golden Globe completion plaques or Official

Ranking in the Golden Globe Race, but can remain in the event, but being moved to

the ‘Chichester Class and joining it’s rankings. They will receive a ‘Chichester’

finishing plaque, provided they finish no later than 1500 hrs on 22nd April 2019.

https://cdn.goldengloberace.com/app/uploads/2018/04/GGR-NOR-EN-0418.pdf

 

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29 minutes ago, LOK77 said:

Jack, sorry for late reply. I cannot find any definitions of 'port' in the GGR Notice of Race, but ....

You could have stopped right there.

That aside you taking the effort to dig into the rules (if they can be called that) and which many don't do but then offer up unsupported viewpoints, is appreciated. There is a lot of lazy opinion here about the rules accepted by competitors, some which are constraints, some opportunity. Those lazy useless illinformed comments like for instance from @olaf hart just upthread claiming Heede is cheating is disrespectful of all competitors, not just him.

Rule interpretation by the author/RO on the run, not a arms length Jury, despite one being stipulated in the rules, is a major rules problem attached to this race. 

It is IMHO why Peche called it quits.

Cheers.

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Oxford Dictionary definitions:

Port:

1: A town or city with a harbour or access to navigable water where ships load or unload.

1.1: Harbour.

 

-> Harbour:

1. A place on the coast where ships may moor in shelter, especially one protected from rough water by piers, jetties, and other artificial structures.

1.1: A place of refuge.

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50 minutes ago, LOK77 said:

Oxford Dictionary definitions:

Port:1: A town or city with a harbour ...

Harbour:

1. A place on the coast where ships may moor in shelter,...

1.1: A place of refuge.

 

So putting aside there no definition of "Port", "Town" or "City" in the GGR SI's despite being fundamental terms to defining what constitutes a "Port" or not. So just relying on the Oxford Dictionary as you point out in the absence of SI's defining a "Port". However then putting aside the ambiguity between harbour, shelter and refuge in the Oxford dictionary, where do the SI's point out any reference to the Oxford Dictionary for interpreting SI definitions? They don't.

A competitor in this race (Kopar) was penalised 6 hours for pulling into a non defined port/harbour. Yet Suzie has done exactly that and not a word about any penalty.

I rest my case My Lord.

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49 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

So putting aside there no definition of "Port", "Town" or "City" in the GGR SI's despite being fundamental terms to defining what constitutes a "Port" or not. So just relying on the Oxford Dictionary as you point out in the absence of SI's defining a "Port". However then putting aside the ambiguity between harbour, shelter and refuge in the Oxford dictionary, where do the SI's point out any reference to the Oxford Dictionary for interpreting SI definitions? They don't.

A competitor in this race (Kopar) was penalised 6 hours for pulling into a non defined port/harbour. Yet Suzie has done exactly that and not a word about any penalty.

I rest my case My Lord.

Didn't just to that again, short of the "official stop over?  Seems Susie and  Kopar got a pass this time round so either they asked and got "approval" or perhaps the magic words "port of refuge" was the get out of jail free card they needed to play.

 

As to Susie, this:
 

Quote

Susie : SITTINatANCHORTOOKAWAY ALLDESIRE2 SAILRTW. /
"Enattenteàl'ancragepourrepartir toutdésirsdenaviguer."

Ouch!

Posted on FB 4 hours ago.  Is that a temporary moment or does something like that start to eat away till you can't get rid of the funk.  She had lots of positive spirit coming into Hobart and if she kept things together there is always a chance to podium (for whatever that means in this race).  To me, this is a surprise.  On the plus side she's got decent weather for a bit so maybe the mood may change.

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57 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

Is that a temporary moment or does something like that start to eat away till you can't get rid of the funk. 

it is called portbound happens to the best of us.

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Susie doesn’t sound too good here, let’s hope she will get back to her routine soon enough... GO Susie GO!

 

 

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