QBF

The 2018 Golden Globe Race

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I don't recall that discussion but I would be surprised if it was written off for a crewed  RTW platform. First they have a OBR doing nothing else but media production, monitoring connection and telling bad jokes.  Streaming video 24/7 at 256 kbps (minimum acceptable) via a geostationary sat platform like Iridium using say a FB500 will probably only require an extra <200kg of diesel per leg or equate to an additional 1 1/2 fat crew members, but that is equal across the fleet for the sailing performance degradation that additional weight introduces. Though in some sea state conditions or when chasing lower antenna transmit angles between geo stationary zones forward of the transom line for an antenna mounted there, there will be a higher latency with carbon sail interference etc. 

The latter issue may arguably be corrected with employing cross-linked Low-Earth Orbit satellites, not geo stationary like that offered by the Iridium Next platform just in final throws of completion and hardware available shortly that are punching a signal not far up and so requires less power. However that is offset by the extra power needed for a continous satellite tracking antenna that is going to be working its guts out on a racing sailboat. I'm sure someone has worked that out but my guess the ship motion of a RTW racing sailboat using Iridium Next at video streaming of 256 kbps will require maybe 25% more power, providing the antenna hardware can handle the added motion.

So even using the current Inmarsat platform or Iridium Next (subject to knowing actual latency of hardware), 24/7 video streaming off a raceboat is quite doable now (with some accepted latency) providing a Sat provider is a race partner and subsidises that video streaming upload cost.

There are times when I think you are "The Google".  B)  An AI taking on the roll of a curmudgeonly sailor so as not to be noticed as you slowly alter the world order.

A mini nuke was certainly a little hyperbolic, but there had been discussions that I remember from the VG about trying to reduce the need/use of diesel.  Green race and all, but I would agree that if they factored in the extra weight, it would solve the energy issue.

It was way back, almost before the start of the VOR as the talk was about changes to the media presentation (use of drones for example), and folks were pining for 24/7 digital streaming media, but the general conclusion was not going to happen because of energy, cost, and I'll add, diluting the product.  If they won't keep a tracker live, streaming video would not even be on the table.  However, as you are "The Google" I will be prepared to stand corrected, in fact I think I'll just start a post with "I stand corrected by The Google, but what about this..." :)

This is off the topic of the GGR, but honestly, after the loss of Susie and her effort to catch Uku, all that is left is Heede keeping enough steam to finish ahead of Slats by 18 hours.

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24 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Donald on the defensive.  Report into storm tactics by RKJ promised. 

https://goldengloberace.com/some-wonder-why1/

Quote

There is nothing wrong with slower well-found yachts, traditional navigation techniques and high safety standards that ARE the Golden Globe Race.

Seems Don is calling you and Jack out as know nothings  /s

This guy is good.  he is the con artist extraordinaire for he uses bombast phrases 

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They are not there for the money, nor the fame. They are there to challenge themselves and seek adventure. .....
By any definition, the Golden Globe is tough, if not the TOUGHEST of them all.

 and sympathetic thoughts...

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Whilst we are all saddened by Susie having to abandon her boat and her ambition, and very appreciative and humbled by the efforts that many people, agencies and companies are making to bring her safely home, the GGR will continue.

 all wrapped around the notion, I did nothing wrong, it is completely the fault of everyone and everything else.

What pisses me off is that that I can agree with the words
 

Quote

. Adventure has risk and has by its very nature an unknown outcome. Without Adventure, or those who are prepared to push themselves, the world is worse off.

as it applies to people who make an attempt of something rare or never done before, they take complete personal risk, but what this Oz did, this Mad King was to wrap a false sense of organization, structure, and "safety" to what has now become, in hindsight, a complete farce.  I'm also offended he compares this keystone Copper drama to well organized events like VB, VOR, or the Rhumb.  This was not a race, it was a media event for the one and only King and I don't give a rats ass his flowery words at the end, my hope would be his 2022 circus falls flat on its face.

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Criticisms of the GGR notwithstanding, after watching this, it’s hard not to love Mark Sinclair, “Captain Coconut”.  Incredible energy!  He captures the enthusiastic spirit of amateur sailors absolutely perfectly.  (And it’s very eye opening to see just how chaotic his boat is inside - not quite the “well-oiled machine” I’d have thought.  But that’s life at sea in a small boat.)  What a guy!

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=320752065429061&id=334171803583412&fs=0&focus_composer=0

 

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5 hours ago, littlechay said:

Donald on the defensive.  Report into storm tactics by RKJ promised. 

https://goldengloberace.com/some-wonder-why1/

RKJ's report "will be released at the conclusion of the Golden Globe Race". 

Personally I would be a little bit more interested about stuff based on full debriefing and careful analysis.

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Thank God for GGR's Code Red.. like after Susie's EPIRB goes off it was GGR that contacted Chile MRCC and got things going to cordinate a rescue. This guy is seriously on fuckin crack.

 

Same thing as with the previous rescues.

You are out there on your own, with your EPIRB / sat phone, for some reason you didn't bring much gear though. Anyway, you get into trouble, fire up the EPIRB, place a call with the sat phone. MRCCs pick up your alert, they coordinate your rescue, ships and boats divert to pick you up.

Oh wait, were you out there with GGR? Ok then there we have this guy with your sat phone #. He passes off a couple of messages from you to the public, after all he has all your commercial rights too, so ... he's the superhero and the spokesman for the rescue. 

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4 minutes ago, Nord said:

Same thing as with the previous rescues.

You are out there on your own, with your EPIRB / sat phone, for some reason you didn't bring much gear though. Anyway, you get into trouble, fire up the EPIRB, place a call with the sat phone. MRCCs pick up your alert, they coordinate your rescue, ships and boats divert to pick you up.

Oh wait, were you out there with GGR? Ok then there we have this guy with your sat phone #. He passes off a couple of messages from you to the public, after all he has all your commercial rights too, so ... he's the superhero and the spokesman for the rescue. 

narcissist springs to mind. 

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I recall (correctly?)  that the event Don is attempting to emulate had 1 finisher out of nine and one entrant took a stroll off his transom.

So I suspect he assumes 2 or more finishers out of 18 will constitute proof of concept.

So he will happily “coordinate” three more rescues and think he’s on to something good.

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2 minutes ago, mad said:

narcissist springs to mind. 

I get how the RO can be criticised as a narcissist—he’s running an event that’s he’s also trying hard to promote future editions of— but I don’t get how the events with Susie suggest this.

She activates EPIRB.  That’s public - MRCC’s get the info, right?  Rescue coordination starts.  Doesn’t have to go through RO.  RO is notified and of course goes public with info, tells the story on FB, highlights GGR’s role in coordination, etc. 

I’m not defending the RO, just trying to understand the criticism with regard to this incident.  Isn’t it inevitable that the RO would be the talking head/public face in such an event?  Don’t entrants necessarily accept this once signing on?  Was the RO’s role different this time than for previous rescues?

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15 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

I recall (correctly?)  that the event Don is attempting to emulate had 1 finisher out of nine and one entrant took a stroll off his transom.

So I suspect he assumes 2 or more finishers out of 18 will constitute proof of concept.

So he will happily “coordinate” three more rescues and think he’s on to something good.

You mean be piggy in the middle and chief purveyor of Chinese whispers ;) IRRC he was alerted by the MRCC of the latest one . 

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8 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

I recall (correctly?)  that the event Don is attempting to emulate had 1 finisher out of nine and one entrant took a stroll off his transom.

So I suspect he assumes 2 or more finishers out of 18 will constitute proof of concept.

So he will happily “coordinate” three more rescues and think he’s on to something good.

In any case. Every incidentquitter provides headlines and opportunities for coordinatinglimelight

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5 minutes ago, littlechay said:

You mean be piggy in the middle and chief purveyor of Chinese whispers ;) IRRC he was alerted by the MRCC of the latest one . 

Again, is this a surprise to anyone given that he’s the one running the event?  Isn’t it his “job” to be the focal point for info, the one telling people following the race (and rescues) what’s going on?  I’m just trying to understand (although I do understand criticism of the approach of the GGR in general, a separate topic).

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53 minutes ago, mad said:

narcissist springs to mind. 

The ongoing character assassination of the RO here is pretty brutal - for one person to pull off a race with his own money and virtually no sponsorship, with a bunch of entrants who all agreed to the rules to participate... These entrants could have all chosen the Long Route, but they wanted the publicity, the fame and the rigidity of rules set out by the RO in the GGR - yes, the RO is not perfect, he's never (to my knowledge) run a race like this before and yes, it appears he is in a sense having to make things up as he goes - maybe he's making mistakes, maybe there are oversights... But fuck, he's one man, only human, and what, in his 60's now?

Is he a narcissist? Probably anyone involved in actually believing in themselves enough to do things that seem impossible does have hints of narcissism - it most likely goes with the territory, but I'm no psychologist. I read his website a moment ago and his list of achievements & projects, and I'm guessing there probably isn't a single person in this thread with that much gumption nor history of adventure. I get a lot of the criticisms and I've followed the race and this thread since nearly the beginning... I also get that this forum is the equivalent to a bunch of people sitting around the bar talking shit, but honestly, a little credit where credit is due... 

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3 hours ago, Laser1 said:

Crikey calm down Bucc, you'll pop a vein in a minute :lol:

No worries mate....pressure released :) While the word narcissist is tossed around, there is to an aspect of disingenuous that came to a head in that statement that made my blood boil for a moment.

17 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Again, is this a surprise to anyone given that he’s the one running the event?  Isn’t it his “job” to be the focal point for info, the one telling people following the race (and rescues) what’s going on?  I’m just trying to understand (although I do understand criticism of the approach of the GGR in general, a separate topic).

Focal point for information I could understand for in other events, yes, the "race center" would dole out information on progress, though in those instances (thinking VOR at the moment) there were side channels of information not afforded here since all roads have to pass through the King.  I ponder that some of the pushback is seeing Don trying to be at the center of a rescue, making the calls and he seemed at times not happy when a competitor took a side channel to help with a fix or to just contact family in a stressful moment.  Should Don be the one suggesting how to get Susie off the boat, or the Master of the ship?  There is an arrogance that is, for me now, off putting.

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54 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Again, is this a surprise to anyone given that he’s the one running the event?  Isn’t it his “job” to be the focal point for info, the one telling people following the race (and rescues) what’s going on?  I’m just trying to understand (although I do understand criticism of the approach of the GGR in general, a separate topic).

No surprise. However this kind of event should be about the victims participants. The RO in this thing is Judge, Jury, Executioner, media officer, dictator, weather router,  etc. etc.. 

I appreciate that he is running this on a budget and that does mean that he has to be a jack of all trades. However I am sure he could have attracted some experts in various fields to help him out. He has the old guy and RKJ but I am talking about an expert (current) navigator /weather person etc..

IMO he has interfered far too much. Moving no-go zones after the start, intervening with warnings when people approach boundaries, chiming in with weather information and attempting to give routing advice (based it seems on his incomplete understanding of Windy).

The event is supposed to be a race around the world using 1960s technology. However it has turned into a farce in just about every respect. 

When this event was first announced I was quite keen on entering. Then alarm bells started to go off. The NOR made little sense and what really put me off was the approved choice of boats and the rules on rigging and equipping. It would have been much better to have opened the playing field on hull type, provided it was something that could have existed in 1968. Expert scrutinizing would have been required on skippers capability (and mental state) as well as the boat suitability and preparation.

I would have allowed ( but not insisted on ) entrants sending media and blogging. I would have also expected entrants to navigate via celestial in the spirit of the event. IMO that would have made the even much more interesting to follow. Imagine for example if Slatts had been writing a blog, from what we have seen from him (transcriptions of ham radio conversations) I imagine it would have been quite entertaining. What would make this kind of event for me is first hand information as it happens. I am unlikely to buy a book on it after the fact.  After all they have Iridium phones (get the right model and it doesn't show lat/lon) a sailmail subscription would have allowed blogging and low-res photos to be uploaded. The phone accounts could be checked and monitored to ensure that entrants were not making unapproved calls. Otherwise do it all on HF radio, if the radio was not of the GMDSS variety there would be no position information displayed so no modifications necessary. A HF radio and a modem would allow the entrants to receive weather faxes giving them weather information more or less on par with what was available in 1968 (via morse etc..). GMDSS equipped SSB with custom software to prevent position readouts would be the ideal in terms of S&R and comms. 

Edit: naturally I would be open about allowing modern digital media and a computer aboard. !!

Lots of people like to live these things vicariously and this event whilst interesting to some can not have the wider draw that it could as the human first hand, near real-time element is missing. 

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38 minutes ago, littlechay said:

No surprise. 

Thanks for the summary, Chay.  I haven’t been following the GGR details that closely at all, so now I see what you mean.

Re: weather info, interesting what you say.  In the RO’s latest talk, he says the 2022 race (assuming...) will “go backwards, a little bit” in that they’ll only use Met Office/IMO etc traditional forecasts, and no more windyty, PredictWind, etc.  See starting at 13:08 here:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=296957624262742&id=1751709878415736

(I do agree that having competitors being able to communicate first hand in near real time would expand the reach - as it has done for the VG, VOR, etc.)

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If this race keeps repeating and regressing, I can see sailors dressed in hides, with the allowable boats reduced to leather coracles.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

If this race keeps repeating and regressing, I can see sailors dressed in hides, with the allowable boats reduced to leather coracles.

One of my favourite books!  Incredible story, and not just the sailing (his research into traditional hide tanning techniques and trying to find artisans in Ireland that still knew the old ways...)

“At 8pm on the evening of Sunday, June 26 1977, something historic happened at Peckford Island, Newfoundland. It was there that a tiny, open wooden boat, its leather skin only a quarter of an inch thick, touched the New World. Having set sail with a five-man crew from Brandon Creek in Dingle, Co Kerry, on Monday, May 17, 1976, the Brendan — a boat built using only techniques and materials available in sixth-century Ireland — had faced an arduous 4,500-mile (7,300km) journey and its prospects of success had been dismissed as impossible by many.  

Hand-crafted with traditional tools, the 36-foot (11m), two-masted boat was built of Irish oak and ash, hand-lashed together with nearly two miles of leather thong, and wrapped with a patchwork of 49 traditionally tanned ox hides. The Brendan was then sealed with wool grease.”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/meet-the-man-behind-the-brendan-voyage-451111.html

The Brendan Race, a 6th century-style dash across the cold and stormy North Atlantic, last one alive wins! :-)  It’ll be like the Camino de Santiago pilgrim walk that lots of people do in Spain, but for the real zealots!

93C317AD-AB77-4A52-96B3-3ACE7307AA17.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

One of my favourite books!  Incredible story, and not just the sailing (his research into traditional hide tanning techniques and trying to find artisans in Ireland that still knew the old ways...)

“At 8pm on the evening of Sunday, June 26 1977, something historic happened at Peckford Island, Newfoundland. It was there that a tiny, open wooden boat, its leather skin only a quarter of an inch thick, touched the New World. Having set sail with a five-man crew from Brandon Creek in Dingle, Co Kerry, on Monday, May 17, 1976, the Brendan — a boat built using only techniques and materials available in sixth-century Ireland — had faced an arduous 4,500-mile (7,300km) journey and its prospects of success had been dismissed as impossible by many.  

Hand-crafted with traditional tools, the 36-foot (11m), two-masted boat was built of Irish oak and ash, hand-lashed together with nearly two miles of leather thong, and wrapped with a patchwork of 49 traditionally tanned ox hides. The Brendan was then sealed with wool grease.”

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/meet-the-man-behind-the-brendan-voyage-451111.html

The Brendan Race, a 6th century-style dash across the cold and stormy North Atlantic, last one alive wins! :-)  It’ll be like the Camino de Santiago pilgrim walk that lots of people do in Spain, but for the real zealots!

93C317AD-AB77-4A52-96B3-3ACE7307AA17.jpeg

Severin is a good writer, I have five of his books.

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4 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Re: weather info, interesting what you say.  In the RO’s latest talk, he says the 2022 race (assuming...) will “go backwards, a little bit” in that they’ll only use Met Office/IMO etc traditional forecasts, and no more windyty, PredictWind, etc.

That was a bit weird. The SI's make it clear there is no external weather routing.

The inference he is making is that when using a private ham HF link they are not simply getting a repeat of an official high seas weather forecast but one "constructed by the ham operator". They can construct from weather faxes from official providers but more likely from private providers like windyty or predict wind who provide it in a animated form.

For that reaction I get the impression he believes either knowingly or unknowingly competitors are being routed (even if only generally) from the outside where they are recieving "vessel specific constructed forecasts" made suitable for HF voice transmission when the source is a private animated provider and where some have a routing add on to guide the person constructing the forecast.

The existing rules are exposed yet again and it seems only now and when 2 competitors are in the home straight.

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

Severin is a good writer, I have five of his books.

He is.  And I just found out that films were also made at the time about the Brendan voyage - cool. Not too often one sees a curragh under sail!  These films tell the tale for those who can’t get the book:

Part 1 (#2 on YouTube as well).  Worth watching.

 

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

That was a bit weird. The SI's make it clear there is no external weather routing.

The inference he is making is that when using a private ham HF link they are not simply getting a repeat of an official high seas weather forecast but one "constructed by the ham operator". They can construct from weather faxes from official providers but more likely from private providers like windyty or predict wind who provide it in a animated form.

For that reaction I get the impression he believes either knowingly or unknowingly competitors are being routed (even if only generally) from the outside where they are recieving "vessel specific constructed forecasts" made suitable for HF voice transmission when the source is a private animated provider and where some have a routing add on to guide the person constructing the forecast.

The existing rules are exposed yet again and it seems only now and when 2 competitors are in the home straight.

Thanks for clarifying - I didn’t quite know what to make of what he said, not having closely followed the event lately - but this makes sense now.  (How it could ever be policed/enforced is questionable, however.)

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6 hours ago, paravion said:

The ongoing character assassination of the RO here is pretty brutal - for one person to pull off a race with his own money and virtually no sponsorship, with a bunch of entrants who all agreed to the rules to participate...

..I get a lot of the criticisms and I've followed the race and this thread since nearly the beginning... I also get that this forum is the equivalent to a bunch of people sitting around the bar talking shit, but honestly, a little credit where credit is due... 

I don't think there is person here who at the beginning while maybe thinking the concept kooky, had nothing but admiration for the RO's efforts and even now don't think anything other than his heart is in the right place.

However the point is as the race unfolded a myriad of things started occuring that started to cloud that spectator viewpoint. Seeing rules either made up on the go or with arbitrary and discriminatory rulings is not what people signed up to. There is also the aspect of the RO's self belief he has got it 100% right and is not swayed to thinking otherwise, no matter what is actually occuring in the water. Or in bar talk "It is my ballgame, fuck off I'm not interested"

Advice and opinion from around the Bar might be cheap, but that doesn't automatically make it invalid.

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8 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

She activates EPIRB.  That’s public - MRCC’s get the info, right?  Rescue coordination starts.  Doesn’t have to go through RO.  RO is notified and of course goes public with info, tells the story on FB, highlights GGR’s role in coordination, etc. 

I’m not defending the RO, just trying to understand the criticism with regard to this incident. 

If that is what occured there would be no critisism. However as shown in all rescues to-date the process is built around the RO being "central to" not "incidental to" a distress alert as you outline.

This has occured firstly because entrants in the GGR are denied a reliable "two-way" GMDSS "packet data" communication device. There is no such two-way communication in parallel with a one-way EPIRB alert devoid of detail. In the case of DSC HF it would be a preprogrammed message aligning with the incident. Say in Susie's case "lost mast taking water subject to check". She might have another ready to go saying "vessel sinking taking to life raft". She would naturally have to mount her emergency antenna if antenna relied on the mast. That is sent at the push of a button and keeps getting automaticaly sent until acknowledged by either a vessel and or MRCC. She receives that acknowledgement in data form and the process of further two way communication with the MRCC but via voice can commence. That doesn't necessarily have to be via HF (would be if a ship) but could be via sat phone if the MRCC had her Sat Phone number and she visa versa. That communication is all recorded by the MRCC with language experts on hand if needed to decipher.

However under the GGR approach she sets off her EPIRB and eventualy contacts the RO or visa versa. The RO doesn't hear from her but from the UK MRCC being the point of contact for a EPIRB alert from all GGR vessels. The RO initialy had no success making contact with Susie and then when they did it took a couple of goes as voice transmission was bad, wind noise etc, noting a data packet is not effected by such. Then secondly the RO then takes over in conjunction with Chile MRCC with the RO as the conduit for communication with Susie. In the case of using a Yellowbrick text messager, the MRCC doesn't have such a device.

It is probably easy to construct hypotheticals to indicate a GMDSS approach is no better or maybe worse. It is also very easy to construct a hypothetical where Susie's initial sat phone call (not being recorded so couldn't be interogated imediately by experts), or wasn't recieved as the RO's phone lost cell coverage and there was no further contact. Therefore no-one would be the wiser as to why she set off that EPIRB and what was her current predicament.

If you were sitting in the SO in a life raft which would prefer, the SOLAS/GMDSS/MRCC approach being carried out to the letter or the "GGR Code Red" approach?

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

In the case of DSC HF it would be a preprogrammed message aligning with the incident. Say in Susie's case "lost mast taking water subject to check". She might have another ready to go saying "vessel sinking taking to life raft". 

In my experience, other than stating the nature of the disttess, there is no possibility of sending custom messages through HF DSC.

A HF telex is the closest to that but i don't know if it's allowed under the rules.

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37 minutes ago, cifrian said:

In my experience, other than stating the nature of the disttess, there is no possibility of sending custom messages through HF DSC.

A HF telex is the closest to that but i don't know if it's allowed under the rules.

I was being a bit non tech friendly and general only about DSC. You have under the Distress Menu around a dozen nature of distress standard messages you can select from like, Capsise, Abandon Ship, MOB etc. I'm told you can self program the firmware on Class B sets for distress nature but that may be horseshit. A manufacturer like ICOM for instance can reset the firmware so a GGR entrant doesn't see their GPS position displayed, just as has been done to their AIS Transcievers.

They are allowed no HF digital platform (incl DSC) other than HF voice only, where no-one is listening to anymore.

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12 hours ago, Nord said:

Same thing as with the previous rescues.

You are out there on your own, with your EPIRB / sat phone, for some reason you didn't bring much gear though. Anyway, you get into trouble, fire up the EPIRB, place a call with the sat phone. MRCCs pick up your alert, they coordinate your rescue, ships and boats divert to pick you up.

Oh wait, were you out there with GGR? Ok then there we have this guy with your sat phone #. He passes off a couple of messages from you to the public, after all he has all your commercial rights too, so ... he's the superhero and the spokesman for the rescue

 

Don has no f$##ing empathy, no sense whatsoever. In one sentence he criticizes her for not saving material for a jurry rig and than he goes on:  “she was very sick, loosing body fluids all the time from everywhere”, very classy reporting about a young brave girl in life threatening situation, indeed.

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So far an interesting comparison with original race. Then over half of the entrants didn't make it past Cape Town (including Crowhurst); pretty much the same ratio as in current event and for range of similar reasons- boat preparation, spare parts stockpile, mental outlook.

But then comes the interesting bit: back  in 1968, of the remaining four, none were defeated by the (ahem) "Southern Ocean", in fact they ALL made it through and  around Cape Horn. Sure one, Bill King, was dismasted but with his pre-prepared jury rig system made it unassisted to Perth, WA and later continued on making it all the way back to the actual finish. ( under current rules that would have put him into Chichester... But he actually returned to Aust twice for repairs, once structural damage from whale? And again to for medical attention, so would have been disqualified from this ggr...). Even the plywood Piver trimaran crossed it's outward track well into the North Atlantic before it fell apart and sank, largely due to pushing hard to windward it in the trades there... and that was in fact the ONLY boat that did not make it to port due to damage incurred at sea. The other two of course famously continued on, one even doing the high latitude stuff all over again with no real dramas...

Fast forward to today, and after the initial weeding out of half the fleet, things are completely different. Five dismasting leaving four boats derelict, and a further two stopping halfway for repairs. That leaves way less than half the field looking like getting through the Southern Ocean stretch unscathed...
Just pure luck in the numbers game? Forced choice of initial boat type? Or simply the ease of rescue this day and age?

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39 minutes ago, mightyhartley said:

...Fast forward to today, and after the initial weeding out of half the fleet, things are completely different. Five dismasting leaving four boats derelict, and a further two stopping halfway for repairs. That leaves way less than half the field looking like getting through the Southern Ocean stretch unscathed...

Just pure luck in the numbers game? Forced choice of initial boat type? Or simply the ease of rescue this day and age?

The RO is ahead of you. He is now sprouting "forced" and "voluntary" retirement statistics to prop up the numbers.

For instance if you are Peche and your vane shat itself even after rebuilding it, incl using tiller pieces until they were gone, that is all his fault on equipment choice and so a voluntary retirement. Gets more rediculous. The RO regards Gregor losing both masts as a voluntary/borderline forced retirement because he could have jury rigged it a couple of thousand miles to Aust and continued in Chichester, but instead chose to utilise the SAR resources afforded Tomy and bailed out.  

So the GGR statistics table will be while less than a handful made it to the finish this side of Xmas 2019, most of the others simply had a more pressing engagement elsewhere.

You can't make this shit up.

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MH, could you please refresh my memory as to who the other one besides Mottessier who continued on in 1968. 

 

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 So the GGR statistics table will be while less than a handful made it to the finish this side of Xmas 2019, most of the others simply had a more pressing engagement elsewhere.

Sounds like Mark Sinclair, currently back in his hometown, might have a more pressing engagement, what with Xmas fast approaching and more importantly the weather/Cape Horn sched (he’s apparently considering not continuing): https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2180367102216676&id=1751709878415736

(Somewhat surprising quote at end of the article - he is always very upbeat in his weekly calls, great attitude, but here he doesn’t sound too optimistic: “Five boats have been sunk on this adventure.  The fact that I’ve got here alive is an amazing thing.”)

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8 hours ago, mightyhartley said:

Sure one, Bill King, was dismasted but with his pre-prepared jury rig system made it unassisted to Perth, WA and later continued on making it all the way back to the actual finish. ( under current rules that would have put him into Chichester... But he actually returned to Aust twice for repairs.

Good evening.

A correction.

Bill King capsized and lost the fore mast of his boat deep in the South Atlantic as he was entering the Roaring Forties. He set up his specially prepared jury rig and made for Cape Town. When about 200 miles out, the South African yacht Corsair met up with him and towed him to Cape Town where he retired from the race. So he never made it into the Southern Ocean during the 1968 event.

He tells the story on his book, "Capsize".

Some years later he attempted a non stop circumnavigation again and got as far Aus where he ran into some difficulties. Going on memory a bit here, he collided with a whale and nearly lost the boat. After repairs he carried on and completed the voyage around the world. The name of his book about this voyage escapes me right now.

In the 1968 event three boats made it through the Southern Ocean. A sailor who received very little credit for what was in fact a good passage was Nigel Tedley with Victress, the plywood trimaran.

Regards.

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1 hour ago, trisail said:

A correction.

Bill King capsized and lost the fore mast ...

Thanks for the correction trysail, was -and am -going from memory here...

Point was he was always endeavouring to finish the circumnavigation, although first stop for re-masting obviously automatically disqualified him under original non-stop race rules. Due to various repair delays and season advancing he did not get home in 1968 season. 

In Southern Indian Ocean top sides were badly stove in after either collision with a whale or great white shark, hence amazing at sea repairs and stop in Aus. His boat was lightweight cold molded fin Keeler (so obviously totally unsuitable..!). RKJ bemoaned these misfortunes, and 'experimental' junk rig , saying that with her lovely hull she was surely a winner...

His book was called 'adventure in depth', a bit of a pun since he was a submarine Commander during the war.

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2 hours ago, trisail said:

A sailor who received very little credit for what was in fact a good passage was Nigel Tedley with Victress, the plywood trimaran.

Quite remarkable also considering it went against convention of multi's dissapearing/imploding at sea incl his boats designer. First multi around Cape Horn. This sole Xmas dinner photo someone out there now should do a replica with their 35mm camera.

200px-Nigel_Tetley_Golden_Globe.jpg

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So Susie was using her Jordan Series Drogue when she got pitchpoled?

That may actually be the first (recorded) time that's happened to a boat using one - they are pretty much designed to be able to take you through anything, on any boat (monohull at least, dunno much about multis) as long as they are chafe-free and sized correctly. A large number of people have used them in horrendous conditions and got the boat through without a scratch - a boat doing that other Long Route race got caught in the same storm and used one successfully.

I'd be really interested to know what happened - maybe the drogue came off due to chafe.

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Susie G said “Thanks to Selden I have new rigging and have switched from single to twin spreaders for extra stiffness. I was going to add a second forestay, and backstay and an extra set of shrouds but Selden tell me the specs for the new rig is well above the safety line anyway,’ 
Read more at https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/boat-events/golden-globe-race/rustler-36-re-build-susie-goodall-65826#vhHBr4Uy3BpROydZ.99

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39 minutes ago, alctel said:

So Susie was using her Jordan Series Drogue when she got pitchpoled?

That may actually be the first (recorded) time that's happened to a boat using one - they are pretty much designed to be able to take you through anything, on any boat (monohull at least, dunno much about multis) as long as they are chafe-free and sized correctly. A large number of people have used them in horrendous conditions and got the boat through without a scratch - a boat doing that other Long Route race got caught in the same storm and used one successfully.

I'd be really interested to know what happened - maybe the drogue came off due to chafe.

Jordanseriesdrogue commented up thread saying they didnt supply her drogue but I bet they'll be keen to know what happened.  Perhaps they'll come back with an update. 

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32 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Jordanseriesdrogue commented up thread saying they didnt supply her drogue but I bet they'll be keen to know what happened.  Perhaps they'll come back with an update. 

Yeah I have one as well (oceanbrake) so I am very interested to know what happened.

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Slats broken the 1100 delta  again as the Teacher slows, but still got a VMG if not BS. advantage. Slats not leaving anything in the tank trying to shorten the string.

Mark #Slats (via satellite) 68 HANDSTERING ALL NIGHT PICKING THE WAVES TO SURF SOGREAT / pilotage manuel toute la nuit, choisir le vagues pour surfer, génial

Jean-Luc van den #Heede (via satellite) 8PETOLE!PATIENCE.G HATE DE TROUVER LES ALIZES DE SE!L  /  PATIENCE.G HATE TO FIND THE ALIZES OF SE!

Mark #Slats (via satellite) 68 GIVING IT ALL HERE ME AND MAVERICK ON THE SAME LEVEL NOW :) / tout ici, moi et maverick au même niveau:)

Jean-Luc van den #Heede (via satellite) 8LA CHALEUR BRESILIENNE EST LA!BRICOLAGE RANGEMENT AUJOURDHUI.L  /  the brazilian is hot! today hardware storage

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Slats broken the 1100 delta  again as the Teacher slows, but still got a VMG if not BS. advantage. Slats not leaving anything in the tank trying to shorten the string.

Mark #Slats (via satellite) 68 HANDSTERING ALL NIGHT PICKING THE WAVES TO SURF SOGREAT / pilotage manuel toute la nuit, choisir le vagues pour surfer, génial

Jean-Luc van den #Heede (via satellite) 8PETOLE!PATIENCE.G HATE DE TROUVER LES ALIZES DE SE!L  /  PATIENCE.G HATE TO FIND THE ALIZES OF SE!

Mark #Slats (via satellite) 68 GIVING IT ALL HERE ME AND MAVERICK ON THE SAME LEVEL NOW :) / tout ici, moi et maverick au même niveau:)

Jean-Luc van den #Heede (via satellite) 8LA CHALEUR BRESILIENNE EST LA!BRICOLAGE RANGEMENT AUJOURDHUI.L  /  the brazilian is hot! today hardware storage

As usual, French to English translations are shit... When VDH says "G hate de trouver les Alizés de SE", what he means is "I am impatient to find SE Trade Winds"...

"G hate" is "short hand" used in place of: "j'ai hate"

The second post is: "the Brazilian heat is here! Today, small repairs/maintenance and tidying up the boat"

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21 minutes ago, Laurent said:

what he means is "I am impatient to find SE Trade Winds"

Thanks for that. Heede is certainly moving shortly into a easterly flow north of Rio but not as much south in it as he would like, pinning him inshore. Slats is going to have the exact opposite with a nth westerly flow taking him offshore. Then there is some successive lows moving into his neighbourhood this week and he may catch a quick ride ride north if positioned well.

Might be a Slats and ladder week ahead.

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Was somehow surprised to read (GGR update today) that Tapio was considering diving on his boat (at S44.3 W170.3, far off east coast of NZ), in a calm to clear off what are apparently not insubstantial gooseneck barnacles slowing him down - and sighting two sharks discouraged him from going in.

Didn't know sharks were such pelagic, open ocean creatures.  Would’ve thought it much more likely to encounter them near obvious, abundant food sources - near reefs, coasts, islets with seals, etc.  (I immediately remembered diving mid-Pacific, en route on a delivery from Hawaii, to inspect hull and prop after hitting something...)

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3 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Was somehow surprised to read (GGR update today) that Tapio was considering diving on his boat (at S44.3 W170.3, far off east coast of NZ), in a calm to clear off what are apparently not insubstantial gooseneck barnacles slowing him down - and sighting two sharks discouraged him from going in.

Didn't know sharks were such pelagic, open ocean creatures.  Would’ve thought it much more likely to encounter them near obvious, abundant food sources - near reefs, coasts, islets with seals, etc.  (I immediately remembered diving mid-Pacific, en route on a delivery from Hawaii, to inspect hull and prop after hitting something...)

Best to think of these boats as being moderately speedy reefs.

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46 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Was somehow surprised to read (GGR update today) that Tapio was considering diving on his boat (at S44.3 W170.3, far off east coast of NZ), in a calm to clear off what are apparently not insubstantial gooseneck barnacles slowing him down - and sighting two sharks discouraged him from going in.

Didn't know sharks were such pelagic, open ocean creatures.  Would’ve thought it much more likely to encounter them near obvious, abundant food sources - near reefs, coasts, islets with seals, etc.  (I immediately remembered diving mid-Pacific, en route on a delivery from Hawaii, to inspect hull and prop after hitting something...)

Blue sharks and oceanic whitetip sharks have been known to inhabit those latitudes, although it is close to the southern limit of their range.  They cover huge distances of open ocean in search for pray.  Most shark species do inhabit coastal waters but there are a few pelagic species out there as well.  Any floating object will attract sealife and where there is an abundance of fish, you are likely to find sharks - even in the middle of the ocean.

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6 hours ago, JMore said:

Blue sharks and oceanic whitetip sharks have been known to inhabit those latitudes, although it is close to the southern limit of their range.  They cover huge distances of open ocean in search for pray.  Most shark species do inhabit coastal waters but there are a few pelagic species out there as well.  Any floating object will attract sealife and where there is an abundance of fish, you are likely to find sharks - even in the middle of the ocean.

Great whites in those latitudes too. Porbeagles everywhere but they are harmless ;)

 

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It looks as if Slatts has an opportunity to get within 800 NM or so of Heede before the end of the week but then the rubber band will stretch out to around 1k NM again.  It will be difficult for him close the gap enough to make a move. 

 

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So, is VDH heading to Rio to see how Antoine Couset is doing and maybe get his mast repaired? 

I would be tempted to just sail straight in and maybe give the bottom a scrub too.

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3 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

So, is VDH heading to Rio to see how Antoine Couset is doing and maybe get his mast repaired? 

I would be tempted to just sail straight in and maybe give the bottom a scrub too.

Maybe get the GG boatyard team into action for a couple of days and enjoy the sights. 

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I haven't been following the GGR but I did notice a post on a local yachtsman' Facebook feed about Igor about 150nm from Albany yesterday. Well he's here now and here are a couple of pics of his arrival. I'll get down to the Marina in a couple of hours for some close ups.

 

IMG_0762.JPG

IMG_0764.JPG

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Oops sorry my bad. That's not him apparently. He arrived last night whilst I was sleeping. 

Here's a video from, I presume, his team's Facebook page

 

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47 minutes ago, albanyguy said:

I'll get down to the Marina in a couple of hours for some close ups.

Mate dont forget a sneaky spy camera bag...the Mad King will have security there to confiscate unauthorised pap snaps.

images (80).jpeg

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51 minutes ago, DtM said:

Bet he doesn't leave to rejoin the race farce

Odds on that are pretty short, but offset by Igor has to get his boat home? I'm going to toss the marble and say he continues.

The Mad King will be lighting candles praying to his RKJ statue that Igor bails out if not encouraging it behind the scenes. The additional costs to the RO (who is doing it tough financially) having a competitor finish maybe months after the prize giving are very substantial.

Captain Coconut albeit nothing announced is in a worse position , being the inverse where continuing takes him away from home.

Igor has the potential to turn this into the biggest finish delta in the history of offshore racing.

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Here is a training video for the next GGR that I stumbled across.... errrr in the unlikely event that it runs again! 

 

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2 hours ago, DtM said:


Bet he doesn't leave to rejoin the race farce

Someone slip him the link to this thread. That’d be enough to convince him to join the quitter class, and he can finish a circumnav’ on his own terms, and write a nice book about the journey from Albany to Les Sables.

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1 hour ago, littlechay said:

Here is a training video for the next GGR that I stumbled across...

You know that is not new you stirrer. For newbies that facsimile access to weather has been exhaustively canvased upthread as being in existance for 4/5 decades. The RO in his wisdom banned it's use, has restated that position since the start and only the other day restated yet again for next time around. That being competitors only can access HF voice weather.

However they can carry secret GoPro's, can recieve tryAcker based external weather routing advice from the RO, but can only listen to music on cassette tapes.

It is like a reinactment of Vasco da Gama circling the Globe with royal pidgeon's landing every few days saying he is on track and making no apology he only has a Mandolin to play and wasn't allowed to take a orchestra.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

You know that is not new you stirrer. For newbies that facsimile access to weather has been exhaustively canvased upthread as being in existance for 4/5 decades. The RO in his wisdom banned it's use, has restated that position since the start and only the other day restated yet again for next time around. That being competitors only can access HF voice weather.

However they can carry secret GoPro's, can recieve tryAcker based external weather routing advice from the RO, but can only listen to music on cassette tapes.

It is like a reinactment of Vasco da Gama circling the Globe with royal pidgeon's landing every few days saying he is on track and making no apology he only has a Mandolin to play and wasn't allowed to take a orchestra.

It is hard to imagine the level of technology that will be available by 2022, but certainly with storage capabilities getting even smaller,  solar power charging getting more efficient, SpaceX's low level WiFi being readily available by then, there could be a lot that hides inside the case of a old timey cassette player.

Cheating?  Some might say, I'd respond...no...saving my ass and mind, but then I'd never willingly choose to participate in this race, even if I had the capability, for while one's heart may  be in the "right" place, that does not balance against chaotic organization and the need for one man to be pulling the strings.

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Any pictures of Igor? And the farm he's dragged with him? 

 

I hope for his sake he retires, just cruelty at this stage.

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11 minutes ago, bucc5062 said:

It is hard to imagine the level of technology that will be available by 2022, but certainly with storage capabilities getting even smaller,  solar power charging getting more efficient, SpaceX's low level WiFi being readily available by then, there could be a lot that hides inside the case of a old timey cassette player.

Dunno about that  My 70 year old watch still works. I thought about swapping it after seeing an advertisement in Playboy, but after going to their geek store didn't.

images (82).jpeg

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4 hours ago, littlechay said:

Here is a training video for the next GGR that I stumbled across.... errrr in the unlikely event that it runs again! 

 

Another training video

:-)

(I can’t figure out why he sometimes calls her “bud”.  Surely that’s not her name, or even a shortened form of it...)

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6 hours ago, Icedtea said:

Any pictures of Igor? And the farm he's dragged with him? 

 

I hope for his sake he retires, just cruelty at this stage.

Maybe his farm can act as a drogue or additional righting moment under knockdown. Maybe slow is safe if your farm is big enough. We should let him run the experiment.

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13 minutes ago, Mark Set said:

Anybody else notice that JLVD is steering to Rio like hes planning on going there?

 

Also, Amra's boat just went up for sale in the Cape Verde's: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1975/biscay-36-3491927/?refSource=standard listing

Yup.  See post 3455 above.  

Less than 20 NM off the beach.  Reaching straight at the shore line and no way out of there without tacking through about 150° and heading back south.  

But he's about 20 miles east of the the harbor.  Maybe he's thinking about anchoring and doing repairs.  

Radio silence so far?

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13 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Yup.  See post 3455 above.  

Less than 20 NM off the beach.  Reaching straight at the shore line and no way out of there without tacking through about 150° and heading back south.  

But he's about 20 miles east of the the harbor.  Maybe he's thinking about anchoring and doing repairs.  

Radio silence so far?

He may be going in as far as he can, tacking out since he's going to  have it on the nose for a few days.  Of course, Slats, living large right now will also have it on the nose in a few days.  20 miles?  I guess we'll find out between now and 5 hours.

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51 minutes ago, bdu98252 said:

Maybe his farm can act as a drogue or additional righting moment under knockdown. Maybe slow is safe if your farm is big enough. We should let him run the experiment.

Speaking of mussel farms, it looks as if (GGR FB update) Mark Sinclair has cleaned off all his mussels *and* re-painted.  Suggesting imminent departure?  Will he go?  Guess we’ll find out soon.  That would put him at the Horn, what, late Jan?

https://sea-distances.org/

Adelaide-Punta Arenas = 6256nm @ 5 kts = 52 days

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1 hour ago, Mark Set said:

Also, Amra's boat just went up for sale in the Cape Verde's: https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1975/biscay-36-3491927/?refSource=standard listing

If someone was wanting to do the GGR in near future (if it took place!) the question would be, would it be better to buy a roughly $25-30k Westsail 32, say, which are commonly available in North America and would qualify, refit it and have some $ left over, or buy Nabil’s already done boat (apparently the old faulty Beaufort vane has been replaced by a Windpilot, says listing) for somewhat less than asking ($125k) and have something that’s ready to go...

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19 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

If someone was wanting to do the GGR in near future (if it took place!) the question would be, would it be better to buy a roughly $25-30k Westsail 32, say, which are commonly available in North America and would qualify, refit it and have some $ left over, or buy Nabil’s already done boat (except for the apparently fairly useless Navik windvane) for somewhat less than asking ($125k) and have something that’s ready to go...

I’d go for VDH’s Rustler. He said it would be for sale in Tasi.

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5 minutes ago, Third Reef said:

I’d go for VDH’s Rustler. He said it would be for sale in Tasi.

Good point - you figure it’s better set up?  (Probably, as Nabil was pretty much a beginner.)

(It’ll be delivered from France to Tasi?  Seems an awfully small market there.)

 

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6 minutes ago, Third Reef said:

I’d go for VDH’s Rustler. He said it would be for sale in Tasi.

Make sure you replace the mast :)

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2 hours ago, Mark Set said:

Anybody else notice that JLVD is steering to Rio like hes planning on going there?

Don't believe the Windyty. Close inshore it will be more Southly and he will be out of the current. He has a tricky couple of days plugging north before finding the E/SE.

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9 minutes ago, tama_manu said:

4 miles from shore, I hope the batteries on VDH's alarm clock are charged better than Alex T's in the Route du Rhum

1822237008_CaptureVDH.thumb.PNG.ec929561442204a2f33b5a7874c96276.PNG

Not exactly a hot bed of lively nighttime entertainment or marine services that he is aimed for:

 

 

Screen_Shot_2018-12-11_at_4_22.37_PM.png

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11 minutes ago, tama_manu said:

4 miles from shore, I hope the batteries on VDH's alarm clock are charged better than Alex T's in the Route du Rhum

1822237008_CaptureVDH.thumb.PNG.ec929561442204a2f33b5a7874c96276.PNG

Much less current inshore. The Brazil current fairly trots south in those parts. 

image.thumb.png.9238aa6ea7527e446b757a232a32d981.png

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2 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Good point - you figure it’s better set up?  (Probably, as Nabil was pretty much a beginner.)

(It’ll be delivered from France to Tasi?  Seems an awfully small market there.)

 

Lol, I meant JLVD joked that when he was in Hobart his boat would be on the market at the end of the race, probably in France, but could be Rio, you never know.

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52 minutes ago, littlechay said:

Much less current inshore. The Brazil current fairly trots south in those parts. 

image.thumb.png.9238aa6ea7527e446b757a232a32d981.png

He is 4 miles from shore still traveling 4.3 kt at last position.  That is not normal.  I'll toss three options and we'll see within an hour.

1 - he' sailing right into shore, dropping an anchor and saying fuck it one way or another (clean bottom, fix mast, who knows)
2 - He's sailing right into shore tacking out to get the best possible angle heading up north.
3 - He's fallen off the boat and it is sailing on autohelm right into shore
4 - he is still on the boat, but not able to sail.

I pray for 1 or 2, but for someone who's sailing over 2/3 around the world, mostly in the lead of a "race"...this now does not make sense.

Edit:  I was looking on GGR facebook, last thing relating to Heede was this 16 hrs ago

 

Quote

 

#GGR2018 Jean Luc Van Den Heede is NOT going to RIO,

I would think if he was stopping, even for a break he'd be telling the King, just so he don't get more penalties.  Time will tell. 

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None of the above. He is getting land effect and sitting in a light S/SE and going to bounce along the beach to stay out of the current. He will be napping between gybes or maybe even stay on starboard. Daylight will see breeze probably go north and so tacking up the beach.

PS. That tracker position is 1 1/2 hours old so he is already sliding nth just outside the surf line and probably getting a bit of current assistance in the back eddies between headlands.

Edited by jack_sparrow
Add PS.

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't believe the Windyty. 

Yeah, when I zoom way, way in on the tracker it shows the Great Old Man at anchor having a drink in his cockpit giving the finger to Slats, as if to say, “Come and get me!” :-)

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5 minutes ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Yeah, when I zoom way, way in on the tracker it shows the Great Old Man at anchor having a drink in his cockpit giving the finger to Slats, as if to say, “Come and get me!” :-)

Are you sure that the finger isn't directed to the RO and he is saying to Slats "Come and join me"?

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14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

None of the above. He has getting land effect and sitting in a light S/SE and going to bounce along the beach to stay out of the current. He will be napping between gybes or maybe even stay on starboard. Daylight will see breeze probably go north and so tacking up the beach.

Hey, hoping you are right, but after x number of months...you think someone his skill would bounce along a shore when his rather strong competition is breathing down his back?  Even given that Windy is a "concept" of winds, he's not doing an in shore race and he could have tacked over and headed out in the same mixed current he has in shore.  Listen, I hope I am wrong for I'll eat Lima beans in punishment, but can you really justify a RTW sailor going inside 4 miles to  a coast line if nothing is wrong?  I'll take option 5, mast blew it and he jury rigged it enough to get to shore (that's a reach)

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