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I picked up an old 5o5 on a trade last year. I normally crew on "Tigger," an FT10, up on the Puget Sound. I haven't rigged a boat before and the previous owner stripped the boat down and refinished the hull. I know these are technical boats and I'm probably in over my head. I have a couple friends who are willing to help me do the work who have rigged larger boats but the 5o5's seem to have a lot of nuances and a very class specific set up. I'm just wondering if there is anyone local who might be willing to give me some advice on rigging this thing. If I could drive it somewhere and bring a permanent marker and a notebook and just pick someone's brain for a bit I would beyond grateful.

A little more about the boat, it's hull #5973. I have all the rigging that came off the boat minus lines, sheets, halyards. It came with two sets of sails, one of which hasn't been used. It came with a trailer with the removable dolly. If I can't get in contact with anyone local I'd appreciate any advice I can get to make this happen.

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Hi Dust,

The american section of the international 505 class is strong and friendly (a motorcycle gang on the water). Get started here for contacts and rigging tips:

http://www.usa505.org/

Trailer the boat with all the parts to the first regatta you can find. You'll get plenty of advice. Rig it. Sail it. Changing layout is part of the fun.

Be careful, 505 sailors don't move up to another class, they just go to the worlds more often.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Dust said:

I picked up an old 5o5 on a trade last year. I normally crew on "Tigger," an FT10, up on the Puget Sound. I haven't rigged a boat before and the previous owner stripped the boat down and refinished the hull. I know these are technical boats and I'm probably in over my head. I have a couple friends who are willing to help me do the work who have rigged larger boats but the 5o5's seem to have a lot of nuances and a very class specific set up. I'm just wondering if there is anyone local who might be willing to give me some advice on rigging this thing. If I could drive it somewhere and bring a permanent marker and a notebook and just pick someone's brain for a bit I would beyond grateful.

A little more about the boat, it's hull #5973. I have all the rigging that came off the boat minus lines, sheets, halyards. It came with two sets of sails, one of which hasn't been used. It came with a trailer with the removable dolly. If I can't get in contact with anyone local I'd appreciate any advice I can get to make this happen.

There are 505 sailors in the NW.

Also, join the appropriate USENET groups. You can do this through google groups if need be.
Yes, class specific. You have an old obsolete boat. Rig it and have some fun. It is not worth trying to get it competitive. But you can learn to sail a 505 on it which is a big part.
Try to rig it reasonably close to current ideas but watch out, you have some very expensive and involved rigging to do if you think you want it to be a double pole boat. I'd recommend against that for the start. Or does it already have double poles?
 

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10 hours ago, t.rex said:

Hi Dust,

The american section of the international 505 class is strong and friendly (a motorcycle gang on the water). Get started here for contacts and rigging tips:

http://www.usa505.org/

Trailer the boat with all the parts to the first regatta you can find. You'll get plenty of advice. Rig it. Sail it. Changing layout is part of the fun.

Be careful, 505 sailors don't move up to another class, they just go to the worlds more often.

 

 

 

 

It looks like the Pacific Coast Championships are up in Bellingham June 15th-17th! I'll see what I can do make it up there. Thanks for the advice!

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6 hours ago, fastyacht said:

There are 505 sailors in the NW.

Also, join the appropriate USENET groups. You can do this through google groups if need be.
Yes, class specific. You have an old obsolete boat. Rig it and have some fun. It is not worth trying to get it competitive. But you can learn to sail a 505 on it which is a big part.
Try to rig it reasonably close to current ideas but watch out, you have some very expensive and involved rigging to do if you think you want it to be a double pole boat. I'd recommend against that for the start. Or does it already have double poles?
 

Not a double pole boat, unfortunately. I figured this was a good starting point. I really want to learn the boat, and I wanted to get in low dollar.  I figured rigging it myself would be an important place to start, it just seems a bit daunting. I traded a 17 foot kayak I picked up for $300 from a friend. I feel like I got an insane deal, regardless of the fact that it's an outdated boat. I just signed up for the 505 NW group and the US group on google. I put some feelers out to see if I could get out and crew for someone and get a feel for the boat and get some advice on rigging there. Thanks for the info!

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I'm working to get my boat re-rigged too.  Previous owner capsized, broke mast and removed most fittings in order to repair damaged step, so it has been an adventure.  505 aficionados have been very helpful with advice and even materials, so costs have been minimal.  Installed mast ram and cams for double pole control lines last weekend. Now just need to lash a block to the existing single Spiro fitting to make a base for the second pole, figure out how to secure them alongside the boom, and we're off!   Oh, and crew would help.     Photo is pre-rerigging.   There's a 505 demonstration weekend with about a half dozen boats coming to Pequot Yacht Club on 23/24 June 2018.  Check it out!  

IMG_6197a.jpg

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I have an old 5o5 too... this discussion might help get in the water sooner! Meanwhile, trying to resist the urge to rig it with an assy kite...

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Dust,

Saw your post on the PNW group and was going to respond till I saw this thread. (I will still reply but it will be shorter) 

I had an old 505 for a while before trading up to a newer waterrat. I did what I could to get it racing and poured some money into it, fittings, pole launcher, sails new lines etc. But it was too soft to be really good and really became unsafe due to leaks in the tanks etc. 

Seattle fleet has 6 boats, we sail Thursday evenings at CYC. People are generally looking for crew/helm. From your google post you are crew (>170lbs) and there are a few up here looking for that.

this was my first dinghy in 20 years and it is a great learning experience. There are lots of good 505 sailors here who can give advice, some throw money at problems others solve for least amount.

I did see you posted sail number 5973. IS that the hull number? The boat registery does not have that hull number listed. hull number is generally drilled into the transom or on a plate on the transom. Your sails may have come from another boat. Do you know the builder? 

There are lots of documents available with line sizes, lengths, fitting types etc. So tackle one project at a time and ask questions. Pictures are also helpful. But it would be good to know what you are starting with . Hull type, bag or launcher, construction, mast make etc.

 

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8 minutes ago, Locus said:

Dust,

Saw your post on the PNW group and was going to respond till I saw this thread. (I will still reply but it will be shorter) 

I had an old 505 for a while before trading up to a newer waterrat. I did what I could to get it racing and poured some money into it, fittings, pole launcher, sails new lines etc. But it was too soft to be really good and really became unsafe due to leaks in the tanks etc. 

Seattle fleet has 6 boats, we sail Thursday evenings at CYC. People are generally looking for crew/helm. From your google post you are crew (>170lbs) and there are a few up here looking for that.

this was my first dinghy in 20 years and it is a great learning experience. There are lots of good 505 sailors here who can give advice, some throw money at problems others solve for least amount.

I did see you posted sail number 5973. IS that the hull number? The boat registery does not have that hull number listed. hull number is generally drilled into the transom or on a plate on the transom. Your sails may have come from another boat. Do you know the builder? 

There are lots of documents available with line sizes, lengths, fitting types etc. So tackle one project at a time and ask questions. Pictures are also helpful. But it would be good to know what you are starting with . Hull type, bag or launcher, construction, mast make etc.

 

Hey Locus,

It's Hull 5973, I believe its a Parker. My understanding is that it was built in Europe. The previous owner gave me a list of names, I think other previous owners.

I'm not expecting this boat to be competitive. It's more of a learning curve boat, getting in on the low end, have some fun. Once I know the boat and how it sails better I might invest in a newer one, maybe I'll just crew one someone else's newer one. I'll take some photos and post soon. I'll figure out more specifics when I start taking photos and post those as well.

I need to pay the registration on the trailer and maybe once I can make a few Thursday nights I will bring it up and get some advice. I'm also considering going up to Bellingham in a couple weeks for the PCC to look at how people are rigged up and take some photos.

Thanks for the message, I'll look for your response on the PNW group and hopefully I will find a spot on a Thursday soon!

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Dust

Mine was a Parker as well and one of the other fleet members has an old parker as well. Probably similar vintage to yours (mid- late 70's)

Couple things to look for. 

1. Tank to deck joint. I assume you have a wood gunwale. The tank is glued to the top of the wood with just the edge to hold on. When you tension the shrouds it pulls this out. Mine pulled out about 2' on the starboard side. I was continually gluing it back down.

2. CB trunk to hull. Hull is non-cored polyester (probably there were some cored parkers in the 70's) so it flexes quite a bit, and the trunk does not. It may delam there and you have lots of water intrusion.

3. Transom. Two issues here. Rot in the top brace is an issue. Many were replaced with aluminum. The transom is very low. Getting water out is difficult or impossible once you flood. Mine almost sank and one of the others in the fleet did as well. You may want to consider some sort of closure there.

4. Boom. Depending no how the mainsheet is rigged your boom may be insufficient. Mine had Elevestrom  spars and the boom bent quite a bit under load. BUT I had transom sheeting so it was mostly at the vang.I have seen others break the small boom at the center sheet blocks due to large cantilevered loads there. 

 

So take a look at those areas and make sure the boat is safe and water tight before you get too far. 

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I pulled everything out and took some photos today.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vhu88ml0koTPzMye2

Like I said, it's pretty much a blank canvas. Now That I've inspected it a bit closer I think I'm going to do some touch up work to the paint job before I start rigging.

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Looks like many of the Parker issues are resolved. You  will need to do something with the transom probably. Does it have a mast Ram? Didn't see a spot for it on the bow. 

Otherwise it looks good. Proctor D mast and upgraded boom. low aspect foils and at least some sails. 

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I am pretty sure I do have a mast ram. I'll have to reinstall the hardware for it when I'm rigging. I'll do some research and see what I can figure out for the transom.

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The ram is the small diameter aluminum tube in the box next to the lever vang. And the magic box. Yes, lots of memories there.

The larger spinnakers of today will not fit in that tiny tube.

Yes that newer boom is good. I had an old teardrop proctor with mid boom sheeting and a lever vang on my old boat (2600s number) but I never broke it. Looked rad when everything was tight. There as a deep bend.

When you get all the hardware on, be sure the bow tank is really and truly buttoned up tight with no screw holes etc. Nothing puts you in serious danger faster than a leaking flooded bow tank. 

 

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Holy time warp, Batman ! ... This is a 505 time capsule !

This is a Parker K series boat, notoriously slippery, rigged exactly like the winning boat of the Bermuda worlds in 1975 by John Loveday/Lewis Dann. Easy to spot from the rudder and the famous 'Loveday Loop' mainsheet horse.

10446661_251037091755892_120546251126727

It was a period of total innovation in 505s; eliminazione of the traveler, lever vang controlling mainsail leech tension, shrouds controlling forestay tension. This eventually  lead to the modern ultra-rigid (read costly) hulls.

Dust, you have a winner in the Concours d'Elegance if you can just put it back together with the pieces you have !

 

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10 minutes ago, t.rex said:

Holy time warp, Batman ! ... This is a 505 time capsule !

This is a Parker K series boat, notoriously slippery, rigged exactly like the winning boat of the Bermuda worlds in 1975 by John Loveday/Lewis Dann. Easy to spot from the rudder and the famous 'Loveday Loop' mainsheet horse.

10446661_251037091755892_120546251126727

It was a period of total innovation in 505s; eliminazione of the traveler, lever vang controlling mainsail leech tension, shrouds controlling forestay tension. This eventually  lead to the modern ultra-rigid (read costly) hulls.

Dust, you have a winner in the Concours d'Elegance if you can just put it back together with the pieces you have !

 

So do you think that hull is cored? Epoxy or poly? Not much information about the hull # in the registry. As a matter of fact there is a huge gap in hull numbers around that one. 5968 to 5990, nothing between. All the boats around that hull are Parkers. 

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Hi Locus,

I don't know. Dust will shortly be smelling those strange petrochemical odors.

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I kinda think that was a boat I had in Palo Alto, CA in the mid 90s before getting a Hamlin.  It had a hoop for the mainsheet at the time and was sold to someone in Washington.  It also had a lever vang and magic boxes.  It had Pattison sails.

Thought it was Ballenger built though IIRC so maybe different?  Someone spent a lot of time painting and improving that boat from your pictures.

 

 

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I was told it was a Parker, the bill of sale to the previous owner says Parker. I don't know how to check for identifiers between Ballenger and Parker. One set of sails is stamped from the 1985 Nationals at Lake McConaughy. I have some names on a piece of paper that may be previous owners. I'm not sure about etiquette on SA about putting people's names up. I do remember hearing that one of the previous owners won nationals or worlds on a different 505. I sent a message to the last owner to see if he could refresh me on some history of the boat and let me know exactly the work he did. I mentioned this thread in my message, maybe he'll get invovled in the conversation...

I'm fairly certain he found it up near Port Townsend in disrepair.

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Lots of boats in that area were hybrids of multiple design and build firms. There are Parker hulled Lindseys and Whitchcraft/Waterrat and Hamlin. 

Ballenger and Moore were both building them at the time in the same area so maybe they also got a Parker Hull and made a boat or two? 

It looks like a parker for sure CB trunk and transom are different than the other boats of that time. 

Full disclosure was 7yr old at the time and this is all from the history I have heard and researched. 

Still curious as to the large gap in hull numbers on the site. don't see too many of those, unknows usually have a Number and a ? in the status.

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6 hours ago, Locus said:

Lots of boats in that area were hybrids of multiple design and build firms. There are Parker hulled Lindseys and Whitchcraft/Waterrat and Hamlin. 

Ballenger and Moore were both building them at the time in the same area so maybe they also got a Parker Hull and made a boat or two? 

It looks like a parker for sure CB trunk and transom are different than the other boats of that time. 

Full disclosure was 7yr old at the time and this is all from the history I have heard and researched. 

Still curious as to the large gap in hull numbers on the site. don't see too many of those, unknows usually have a Number and a ? in the status.

Bare hulls moulded in England were finished in other places. Even my 1966 or so Simmons (Simmonds?) was a Fairey marine hull. Simmons was in NJ and finished it.

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