jabrams

These guys are higher then Rick James

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what do you expect? It is more pap from the cut and paste king, i mean queen.

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They need a proofreader, it's riddled with grammatical mistakes...

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Are you suggesting that every town doesn’t have a bunch of 12m on Wed. Nights? They seem like totally reasonable boats to expand our sport...

Sure, skippers have a hard enough time finding 4 guys to crew on a J105, but what’s 7 more...

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I have an original Defender-Courageous Syndicate flag from the '83 race; is it worth anything?

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32 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

They need a proofreader, it's riddled with grammatical mistakes...

they? there is just one selfish, whiny prick over at his daddy's creation.

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1 hour ago, jabrams said:

If they believe what is written in this article pertains to even 5% of the sailing community, they need to increase their medications. 

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2018/06/04/fun-need-not-cost-fortune/

So are they too high, or not high enough and need more meds? You aren't very clear on this point.

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Everything is relative. The cost of re-vamping a 12 is < The cost of a full on TP52 campaign.

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12 Meters were once an Olympic class believe it or not and were "cheap" boats for AC campaigns that could no longer afford J-Class boats. The 12 Meter class is actually a lot more active than I would have guessed, but even if you gave me a free one I would be hard pressed to pay for sails and a slip for a boat that size.

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If I had the money to re-vamp a 12... I bet I'd have the money for a TP52...

And I'd  have both.

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Where do I sign up? I have an old 12 meter in my back yard that I have been meaning to sail for years. I'll just hitch it up to my Toyota Corolla and tow it to the regatta site.

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Well, that was a stupid article. Jim Gretzky, thanks for nothing!

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Maybe I should look at picking up a pair of abandoned dreams out of a local yard, refit 'em with the change my kids have left under the couch cushions and start match racing them.  It  makes perfect economic sense.....

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Weatherly available for $500K? It's just a downpayment, I know, but still, it seems like a screaming bargain, even if most of us cannot afford her.

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The article made it sound like 12s are the new Lasers that can be found behind any shed for free or close to it and a few beers later be on the race course for pocket change.

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"These guys are higher then Rick James"

I didn't even know Rick James sailed.  Learn something new everyday around here.

 

RIck james.jpg

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13 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1958/Luders-12-Metre-3135586/Newport/RI/United-States?refSource=standard

Nice boat, but on what planet is this a bargain backyard operation for poor people :unsure:

I sailed on Weatherly in Nantucket Race week one year............nice boat 

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32 minutes ago, dacapo said:

I sailed on Weatherly in Nantucket Race week one year............nice boat 

 

What do you reckon the budget is to keep the brightwork in good nick?

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

What do you reckon the budget is to keep the brightwork in good nick?

heh heh heh too much ;-)   I hate brightwork....there's not a lot topsides but fack me below....fortunately that doesn;t see too much sunlight

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I've been thinking about putting my 52 in the shed next season and getting into something more affordable, maybe an aging 12 with endless yard bills is the right fit.

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6 minutes ago, RumLine said:

I've been thinking about putting my 52 in the shed next season and getting into something more affordable, maybe an aging 12 with endless yard bills is the right fit.

Don't forget with an old wood boat, there is no putting off maintenance until you can afford it. Do it now for big $ or do it later for huge $$$$$ :o

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1 hour ago, RumLine said:

I've been thinking about putting my 52 in the shed next season and getting into something more affordable, maybe an aging 12 with endless yard bills is the right fit.

52's are so yesterday.  I'll bet you dumped your Porsche for a used Camry too.

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34 minutes ago, Rum Runner said:

52's are so yesterday.  I'll bet you dumped your Porsche for a used Camry too.

Of course, I let my wife drive my '01 Porsche Boxster now that I've got this beast.  In case anyone is wondering, those are just decals, not real flames.

2135010037_large.jpg

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52 minutes ago, Rum Runner said:

52's are so yesterday.  I'll bet you dumped your Porsche for a used Camry too.

 

For 30K, a WRX is nearly as much fun as a Porsche, and one-third the price!

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4 minutes ago, Svanen said:

Another article for your reading pleasure / scorn (you decide): Three Reasons to Buy a 12 Meter.

I love the boats and might race and/or cruise one if I had the cash and a few friends to haul that huge main up.

That said, this is "cheap racing" the way buying a used Lear for $500,000 is a "cheap" way to get into jet flying :rolleyes:

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2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

This is "cheap racing" the way buying a used Lear for $500,000 is a "cheap" way to get into jet flying :rolleyes:

You're so right!

Personally, I see nothing wrong or crazy about trying to attract interest in, and support for, 12 metres. Obviously they are beyond the financial capacity of most sailors; but they are affordable for some, especially those in a partnership/syndicate.

Pissing on 12Ms and those who sail them is just reverse snobbery: no more attractive than a wealthy person sneering at dinghy sailors.

cartoon-03.jpg

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12 hours ago, RumLine said:

Of course, I let my wife drive my '01 Porsche Boxster now that I've got this beast.  In case anyone is wondering, those are just decals, not real flames.

2135010037_large.jpg

A fucking Toyota? Lmfao

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On 6/6/2018 at 2:07 PM, Hugh Jorgan said:

"These guys are higher then Rick James"

I didn't even know Rick James sailed.  Learn something new everyday around here.

 

RIck james.jpg

can't believe it took 22 posts before this showed up

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12 hours ago, Svanen said:

Personally, I see nothing wrong or crazy about trying to attract interest in, and support for, 12 metres.

cartoon-03.jpg

No there isn't but promoting them as affordable is ludicrous and mockery is the correct response.

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4 hours ago, dogwatch said:

No there isn't but promoting them as affordable is ludicrous and mockery is the correct response.

THIS ^

I love 12s, but the idea they can be found cheap in the back lot of the yard and make good racers for budget sailors is - well something Rick James would come up with while REALLY high :rolleyes:

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On 6/5/2018 at 5:00 AM, doghouse said:

So are they too high, or not high enough and need more meds? You aren't very clear on this point.

Flaming: You're doing it wrong.  The appropriate burn would be a play on the fact that he used "then" instead of "than".

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Gretsky used to be a spar builder.

I've raced against the 12s in a boat I helped restore. That was quite a lot of effort and our boat is 1/15th the displacement.

While the 12s look tiny compared to the 90 foot WL boats (J class etc) they are freakin giants to us. That's a lot of surface area and canvas.

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What the HELL is going on here? 40 posts in (and by a bunch of people that should know better) and not one mention about the rule of not crossing the streams!

Jabrams, you've been around long enough you should know better!

The rest of you....for shame....for_shame!

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Weatherly.  There's a memory from way back:  It raced the crowded Duck Dodge beer can race in Seattle in the 70s a few times.  It "snuck up" on me to windward in my Lightning once.  It took forever for that wind shadow to go away.  Very cool seeing it up close, though. 

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8 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

This is why 

 

 

 

Amazing how times have changed.

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I think that the most fun I ever had sailing or racing was on the last wooden 12 meter HERITAGE during the Antigua Race Week. She had been TURBO'ed by then but still had the bright topsides and it was a special feeling of privilege that she exuded. 

Image result for heritage 12 meter yacht

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ajax said:

Amazing how times have changed.

And yet, so little has changed! Sure, the 12s have been replaced by foiling monstrosities; but more than a half-century after the film was made, the British are still focused on "gaining the experience that will one day enable them to bring the Cup back to these shores".

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 "gaining the experience that will one day enable them to bring the Cup back to these shores".

Are they indeed? Where is that quote from?

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1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

I think that the most fun I ever had sailing or racing was on the last wooden 12 meter HERITAGE during the Antigua Race Week. She had been TURBO'ed by then but still had the bright topsides and it was a special feeling of privilege that she exuded. 

Image result for heritage 12 meter yacht

 

 

She is gorgeous.  She used to race the Chicago Waukegan every year while I was growing up.  It was always a treat to get on board and check out below.  Had a dance club down there 1 year but I digress..  The sea scouts ran her back then.  Who turbo'd her and when??   

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I like the bit where “ the boats cost 30 to 40000 pounds and a mainsail is over a 1000 pounds”

The wages of an average working man in the UK was 14 pounds per week or 2857 weeks work to pay for a boat in 1960

Today the cost of an AC campaign is 100,000,000, the average wage is 27k or 3700 weeks work.

So yes Rick James is right, the 12’s are damn affordable and you lot can easily afford one even if you have to let the gardener go

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On 6/5/2018 at 4:26 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1958/Luders-12-Metre-3135586/Newport/RI/United-States?refSource=standard

Nice boat, but on what planet is this a bargain backyard operation for poor people :unsure:

god that's fucking beautiful. I mean, if money were no object i'd still prefer (as if what i prefer matters a damn bit...) the 88era 12's, but jesus.... that boat is just sex on water. 

 

 

On 6/6/2018 at 3:05 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

I love the boats and might race and/or cruise one if I had the cash and a few friends to haul that huge main up.

That said, this is "cheap racing" the way buying a used Lear for $500,000 is a "cheap" way to get into jet flying :rolleyes:

i actually winced reading that... 

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On 6/5/2018 at 5:18 AM, RATM said:

Everything is relative. The cost of re-vamping a 12 is < The cost of a full on TP52 campaign.

Almost everything is less than the cost of a full-on TP52 campaign. 

I hear they are looking at single use, water-soluble assyms for next year.  The head, tack and clew for the next one just poke out of the top of the dispenser pack after every hoist.

 

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7 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

I think that the most fun I ever had sailing or racing was on the last wooden 12 meter HERITAGE during the Antigua Race Week. She had been TURBO'ed by then but still had the bright topsides and it was a special feeling of privilege that she exuded. 

Image result for heritage 12 meter yacht

 

 

Sorry Rasper, but Valiant was the last wooden one, #24.  We're stepping her tomorrow.

 

Heritage was a lot of fun too, with the masthead rig.  Drove like an Eldorado with that deep barndoor rudder.  Used to beat us up a lot until Jeff put the fractional rig (that we built) in her.  Nice boat, great owner.

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Thanks for the clarification on VALIANT! 

    Yeah, that barndoor rudder really helped in Antigua. Great surfing duel against MISTRESS QUICKLY until she got T-boned by a big catamaran right in front of us! 

 

I think this was the keel and rudder config at that time.

1908317_648214561916895_9195879207846612930_n.jpg

10308435_648214538583564_6633198743024848028_n.jpg

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