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Peterson crewed the Tahiti race on Improbable with Holland. They spent the whole trip talking about their design ideas that they wanted to implement - pre Ganbare and Eygthene.

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11 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Peterson crewed the Tahiti race on Improbable with Holland. They spent the whole trip talking about their design ideas that they wanted to implement - pre Ganbare and Eygthene.

Holland and Peterson sailed together to Tahiti on Spirit.  Spirit was a 33 foot  S&S bay racer owned by George Kiskaddon.  Improbable was not built yet.

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You're right - my bad.

It was only Holland who was so deeply affected by Improbable.

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On 6/24/2018 at 6:25 PM, P_Wop said:

Dave Wahle was a piece of work, and a great player.  Didn't you guys come to David Carne's DCAC party afterwards in Falmouth?  A major event. Half way through, some of the helicopter crews from Culdrose came leaping via ladder over the back garden wall carrying cases of beer, and wearing special T-Shirts they'd knocked up in St Ives that day with "Fastnet 1979 - Aircrew" on the front.  They'd spent the previous night fishing people out of the Western Approaches and needed to unwind - great lads. 

Carney's other half was not impressed next morning - all her ornamental goldfish in the pond had finished their careers on the grill.  

Happy days.

It must have been something in the air in the mid 70's , at a few get togethers down here, where the contents of fish bowls were consumed.:P

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With Mt. Baker in the background....

IMG_20180708_202654831.jpg

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On 6/16/2018 at 4:36 PM, poncho said:

Well... You can get my first book, (back when sailing was fun)

Hey @poncho, I'm halfway through it and I just love it! Keep us advised when the new one comes out...

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FWIW, will be back onboard Improbable on Aug 15th, prepping for a sail to Anacortes to go on the hard at Betts Enterprises.   Have some projects planned already however will be assessing how far the renovation will go.  Have just started putting out feelers, however seems there may be others willing to join in. 

Have started fantasizing about PacCup 2020, but that would take some serious commitments to be competitive.

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I sure hope red paint is part of the plan. ;)

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Believe me, I sure ponder that a lot...

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Btw, all partner$ in the boat will certainly have a vote on the paint color...;-)

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Epic thread .

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Thanks for this. Fascinating reading how it really was. I followed Improbables progress  all the time,from afar .Would have given my left arm to have sailed on her.  Of course the Sailing magazines never filled us in on the antics but  you could read between the lines. Makes you realise what a dowdy fun killing PC world we have now. The PC brigade have taken over mores the pity. But I'm doing my best to grow old disgracefully. Great waking up in the morning feeling good and staying that way all day but the mind still yearns for yesteryears morning after effects !

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At the very least will get Improbable fully operational in her present config.  Then hope to get all the remaining crew that I know from her glory days out for a sail...Commodore, Skip, Ron Holland,Tom Wylie,, Dave Wahle, Kim Desenberg are those I have contact info for.  They can help me track down others.  Perhaps offer the opportunity to some of those who wanted to but who never got the chance.

The next level (letting my dreams take over, but depending on how things go $-wise} would be taking all that I have learned from my lifetime of sailing and working on boats to bring Improbable to an even higher level of performance than ever before.  To be an effective uncluttered racer cruiser that is as light as originally intended.  So she would be rather spartan, however fully functional with a robust energy system, new electronics, etc.

As a rigger for much of my life, I've always wanted to modernize her rigging layout to save weight.  She still has wire halyards and dad added a heavy furler.  That could be 100 lbs out of the rig right there. Most of the deck hardware could be much lighter, using fewer winches, synthetic deck loops, floating leads, etc.  So all of the bolted-on aluminum railings & tracks (and hundreds of associated bolts) could go away.  

The rudder is massively heavy, and has a skeg.  For about 30 years I've wanted to put in a carbon rudder/shaft and do away with the skeg. There's another 150-200lbs or more. The autopilot dad installed is a massive commercial fishing boat system that could be replaced by something for a fraction of the weight.

A lightweight transom scoop in tandem with the diet plan would eliminate the washing-machine effect she's had in the back, and provide a nice swim platform.

And yes SloopJonB...could paint her red again, with white bottom & deck.

See how bad I get?  This could mean not finishing my house for another decade...

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12 minutes ago, Haji said:

See how bad I get?  This could mean not finishing my house for another decade...

Untitled.jpg.09c0cd691a7da61387243a707d48587e.jpg

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4 hours ago, Haji said:

See how bad I get?  This could mean not finishing my house for another decade...

Get your priorities straight!

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Well, hopefully the "Improbable project" won't be MY priority alone....as there is strength in numbers.  

And I do live in Maine and run a business here, so can only be in WA every now & then.  

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5 hours ago, Haji said:

At the very least will get Improbable fully operational in her present config.  Then hope to get all the remaining crew that I know from her glory days out for a sail...Commodore, Skip, Ron Holland,Tom Wylie,, Dave Wahle, Kim Desenberg are those I have contact info for.  They can help me track down others.  Perhaps offer the opportunity to some of those who wanted to but who never got the chance.

The next level (letting my dreams take over, but depending on how things go $-wise} would be taking all that I have learned from my lifetime of sailing and working on boats to bring Improbable to an even higher level of performance than ever before.  To be an effective uncluttered racer cruiser that is as light as originally intended.  So she would be rather spartan, however fully functional with a robust energy system, new electronics, etc.

As a rigger for much of my life, I've always wanted to modernize her rigging layout to save weight.  She still has wire halyards and dad added a heavy furler.  That could be 100 lbs out of the rig right there. Most of the deck hardware could be much lighter, using fewer winches, synthetic deck loops, floating leads, etc.  So all of the bolted-on aluminum railings & tracks (and hundreds of associated bolts) could go away.  

The rudder is massively heavy, and has a skeg.  For about 30 years I've wanted to put in a carbon rudder/shaft and do away with the skeg. There's another 150-200lbs or more. The autopilot dad installed is a massive commercial fishing boat system that could be replaced by something for a fraction of the weight.

A lightweight transom scoop in tandem with the diet plan would eliminate the washing-machine effect she's had in the back, and provide a nice swim platform.

And yes SloopJonB...could paint her red again, with white bottom & deck.

See how bad I get?  This could mean not finishing my house for another decade...

She's a classic - don't make her too much of a resto-mod.

As for the house - you can live on the boat but you can't sail the house.

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Understood, but worth doing improvements in line the original intent. Commodore definitely wanted the boat lighter, says she was almost 2000lbs over...and still was a downwind flyer.  Get her closer to that target weight, and...:-)

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6 minutes ago, Haji said:

Understood, but worth doing improvements in line the original intent. Commodore definitely wanted the boat lighter, says she was almost 2000lbs over...and still was a downwind flyer.  Get her closer to that target weight, and...:-)

there are more than a handful of old school  winners I'd love to see rebuilt from scratch with modern building techniques ... I am quite sure they'd still match up today and be ..sentimental journeys ...fast forward with carbon cores spars,sails and foils~~~

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No need to rebuild...can't beat cold-molded kauri hull & deck!  Just upgrade some of the things attached to it...;-)

Original rig not bad either.  Just repaint and upgrade the strings.

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1 minute ago, Haji said:

No need to rebuild...can't beat cold-molded kauri hull & deck!  Just upgrade some of the things attached to it...;-)

Original rig not bad either.  Just repaint and upgrade the strings.

just a fantasy....2,000# is a ton of fast to drag around on the designed lines ....congrats on your refurbishment... 

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Worth a try.  There was over a ton of my dad's stuff on boat which we already cleared out.  Bow came up 3".

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Better than my old Quarter Pounder - my 200+ Lbs of lard would sink the bow 6". :D

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11 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Better than my old Quarter Pounder - my 200+ Lbs of lard would sink the bow 6". :D

In my case, I'm gravitationally challenged...not heavy enough to have any meaningful effect on the righting moment!  So yes, I've thought of adding water ballast tanks.

But I know that would probably be crossing too far the over the line into "mod" territory...so I do draw the line at certain points!

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Great thread, thank you. 

Having owned a few rides, something I've learned is just to optimize to the original concept.  Best bang for the buck, and the ratings game with screw with you anyway.
 

Lighter, simpler. that seems to be the best way to go.

 

Would love to line up against you in 2020!  

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Great thread, thank you. 

Having owned a few rides, something I've learned is just to optimize to the original concept.  Best bang for the buck, and the ratings game with screw with you anyway.
Lighter, simpler. that seems to be the best way to go.

Would love to line up against you in 2020!  

To hell with the rating! Just go light & fast.  That's the spirit of Improbable, for sure.

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5 minutes ago, LionessRacing said:

No reason not to bring her to Gulf of Maine... 

 

Aside from $!

And the boat really is a west coast baby if there ever was one.

Perhaps someday after a PacCup (TP? R2AK?) and some NW/BC/Alaska cruising, if there is interest to bring to Maine then, maybe.

But this is all getting ahead of ourselves.  Still need to fix up.  

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Moving a boat out of it's home waters is all the more fun... (Lioness came to SF Bay in 2007 and returning to Atlantic in 2025 or so...

I suspect you could get volunteers to do a Vic Maui, then deliver through Panama..

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1 minute ago, Rasputin22 said:

Great to hear your intent to spruce the old girl up. A Betts rudder would do wonders! 

Indeed.

Some bartering will be done to that end...

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6 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Great to hear your intent to spruce the old girl up. A Betts rudder would do wonders! 

LOL..since we are spending your money....yeah...a carbon rudder and tiller, modern foil sections keel too...keep the skeg...carbon mast and boom....maybe some clever fold able rudder steps for access but no to the "sugar scoop"..any new winch deck layout....and then kick azz and stand smiling on the deck post race at whatever YC...

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3 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Get Bieker to design the rudder though...

Possibly; will look into. Or Tom Wylie, since he sailed on the boat back in the day....

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

LOL..since we are spending your money....yeah...a carbon rudder and tiller, modern foil sections keel too...keep the skeg...carbon mast and boom....maybe some clever fold able rudder steps for access but no to the "sugar scoop"..any new winch deck layout....and then kick azz and stand smiling on the deck post race at whatever YC...

The one "issue" with the hull design is the dragging transom (unless surfing).  There was an extension off the transom when we got the boat in 76, however my dad removed it. I recall that having it did clean things up a bit.  It's still on the boat in this pic when in "white" mode...

Would keep wood tiller, however engineer it to be much lighter.  The tiller on Ocean Planet was "wood", however was actually hollow with thin wood skins.  Skegs are relics of history. 

In my dreams a carbon rig would awesome, however that's getting way past the current state of reality.

20180610_131151.jpg

Edited by Haji
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20 minutes ago, Haji said:

The one "issue" with the hull design is the dragging transom (unless surfing).  There was an extension off the transom when we got the boat in 76, however my dad removed it. I recall that having it did clean things up a bit.  It's still on the boat in this pic when in "white" mode...

Would keep wood tiller, however engineer it to be much lighter.  The tiller on Ocean Planet was "wood", however was actually hollow with thin wood skins.  Skegs are relics of history. 

In my dreams a carbon rig would awesome, however that's getting way past the current state of reality.

20180610_131151.jpg

I know I keep yanking this thread sideways...but would love to see those lines built with modern techniques....transom extension...sensible remedy for that classic cockpit ...of course teak veneers over carbon and foam for all the construction in this photo would/may eliminate the need...as "the commodore said" 2,000 lbs too heavy...Cal 40 would be another candidate for modern on the inside...classic look on the outside....

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Just off the phone with Commodore...the 2nd long conversation we've had.  So much history to absorb.

He detailed the original minimalist philosophy, and is fine with the rigging & rudder upgrade directions.  I'll be keeping him in the loop.  Btw, he's over 90 now, and still sharp as a marlinspike.

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47 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I know I keep yanking this thread sideways...but would love to see those lines built with modern techniques....transom extension...sensible remedy for that classic cockpit ...of course teak veneers over carbon and foam for all the construction in this photo would/may eliminate the need...as "the commodore said" 2,000 lbs too heavy...Cal 40 would be another candidate for modern on the inside...classic look on the outside....

Back in the day it was not that hard to find a fab shop to make the tiller head / rudder post set up.... can’t imagine finding someone today 

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She'll be in the right place for any custom fab we can think of.  Betts is doing some amazing things there in Anacortes.  For instance a 50+ft trimaran completely out of TITANIUM.  The Perry carbon cutter sisterships (4), a new Wylie 60ft daysailor with electric propulsion, etc.  The only problem is that what we'd like to do is worth more that what we have to offer in barter (at this time)...;-)

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17 minutes ago, Haji said:

She'll be in the right place for any custom fab we can think of.  Betts is doing some amazing things there in Anacortes.  For instance a 50+ft trimaran completely out of TITANIUM.  The Perry carbon cutter sisterships (4), a new Wylie 60ft daysailor with electric propulsion, etc.  The only problem is that what we'd like to do is worth more that what we have to offer in barter (at this time)...;-)

Yeah... I guess what I was trying to say was that there were many more metal working/ machine shops where the owner would be licking his chops at the chance to do a custom piece like that as opposed to the typical rough stuff... of course they’d charge a fair price but would be proud that finished part was going on something special....

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It wouldnt be that hard to chop the back out, make an open transom and  give it a modern cockpit. If you did that and gave it a spade rudder I bet you'ld get rid of 200kg

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34 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

It wouldnt be that hard to chop the back out, make an open transom and  give it a modern cockpit. If you did that and gave it a spade rudder I bet you'ld get rid of 200kg

Did think of that... pretty big mod though.

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Yes and no,  hardest bit is making the decision, designing it then its just boldness with a sawsall :) I've done it a couple of times. Whats challenging is taking on a boat with history and feeling (imagined or otherwise) pressure to keep it as it was in its glory days. Great memories for sure but plenty of old warhorses have faded away without the dedication and enthusiasm of a new owner giving them a fresh lease of life. Nothing wrong with a bit of chop n' channeling to make then more user friendly. 

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1 hour ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Back in the day it was not that hard to find a fab shop to make the tiller head / rudder post set up.... can’t imagine finding someone today 

Port Townsend would make it pretty easy. I suspect you could choose between fabbed or cast - possibly even off the shelf.

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12 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

Yes and no,  hardest bit is making the decision, designing it then its just boldness with a sawsall :) I've done it a couple of times. Whats challenging is taking on a boat with history and feeling (imagined or otherwise) pressure to keep it as it was in its glory days. Great memories for sure but plenty of old warhorses have faded away without the dedication and enthusiasm of a new owner giving them a fresh lease of life. Nothing wrong with a bit of chop n' channeling to make then more user friendly. 

Windward Passage is the model to follow for that I think.

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48 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

Yes and no,  hardest bit is making the decision, designing it then its just boldness with a sawsall :) I've done it a couple of times. Whats challenging is taking on a boat with history and feeling (imagined or otherwise) pressure to keep it as it was in its glory days. Great memories for sure but plenty of old warhorses have faded away without the dedication and enthusiasm of a new owner giving them a fresh lease of life. Nothing wrong with a bit of chop n' channeling to make then more user friendly. 

I have no fear of the sawzall. Perhaps you never saw my extensive mods on Rumbleseat,  the 1930 30sq Meter that I wonder the 96 Singlehanded Transpac with...

Rumbleseat 1994a-C.jpg

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not doubting your ability in the slightest, its all about what you want it for and there is no right answer. What i found was a lot of people had advice for me on what to do but none had time or money to invest into their versions of what my projects should be.

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39 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

not doubting your ability in the slightest, its all about what you want it for and there is no right answer. What i found was a lot of people had advice for me on what to do but none had time or money to invest into their versions of what my projects should be.

Full disclosure is that it took me 13yrs to finish & launch Rumbleseat. Had a great many participants in that project (although not near so many as with Ocean Planet!).  Then we had a hell of a lot of fun with her. Sold in 98 to Robin Tatersall in the BVI.  Here you see what I did to the underbody....

clas03-0222.jpg

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Haji, 

One of my early memories of reading sailing magazines (and I read them all multiple times) was an article about the concept, development, and performance of Improbable.  My favorite part of the article is that they launched and rigged the boat (maybe to be measured) and there was no time to sail.  The 'guys' were supposed to pack it up for shipment but under the guise of checking to make sure the sails fit, they all of sudden filled and even bigger bs, the claim was that the engine was running and they didn't want to damage the cooling system, they cast off the lines and went out for a few hours.  They were using a 2x4 as a makeshift tiller and the elation at the boat's performance was apparent.  The fact that I remember the article from 45+ yrs ago is a testament to the excitement about the boat.  

Do you remember the article and could you remind me who wrote it and where it appeared?  

Thanks and good luck.  

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3 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Haji, 

One of my early memories of reading sailing magazines (and I read them all multiple times) was an article about the concept, development, and performance of Improbable.  My favorite part of the article is that they launched and rigged the boat (maybe to be measured) and there was no time to sail.  The 'guys' were supposed to pack it up for shipment but under the guise of checking to make sure the sails fit, they all of sudden filled and even bigger bs, the claim was that the engine was running and they didn't want to damage the cooling system, they cast off the lines and went out for a few hours.  They were using a 2x4 as a makeshift tiller and the elation at the boat's performance was apparent.  The fact that I remember the article from 45+ yrs ago is a testament to the excitement about the boat.  

Do you remember the article and could you remind me who wrote it and where it appeared?  

Thanks and good luck.  

Wow, I wish I knew!  Great stuff.  I'll have to ask Commodore or Skip about that. 

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Haj,

    I knew Tats well and sailed and raced with and against him in the VI. He was going to deliver my first daughter (water birth) but all of a sudden the BVI stopped letting pregnant liveaboard moms from St John into their country in the third trimester! He still would have sailed over from Tortola to do his first waterbirth but Mom was not encouraged by that timeframe. I was vaguely aware of your efforts with the 30 Square and Tattersal carried on your tradition. I used to enter my 45' trimaran in the singlehanded divsion in Foxy's Wooden Boat Race and it was tough to get beaten by that splinter. I called it the trimaran that lost its amas. 

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39 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Haj,

    I knew Tats well and sailed and raced with and against him in the VI. He was going to deliver my first daughter (water birth) but all of a sudden the BVI stopped letting pregnant liveaboard moms from St John into their country in the third trimester! He still would have sailed over from Tortola to do his first waterbirth but Mom was not encouraged by that timeframe. I was vaguely aware of your efforts with the 30 Square and Tattersal carried on your tradition. I used to enter my 45' trimaran in the singlehanded divsion in Foxy's Wooden Boat Race and it was tough to get beaten by that splinter. I called it the trimaran that lost its amas. 

Yes, Rumbleseat/Diva was definitely a monomaran...;-)

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2 hours ago, Haji said:

Wow, I wish I knew!  Great stuff.  I'll have to ask Commodore or Skip about that. 

Working from memory, my best guess is that it might have appeared in One Design and Offshore Yachtsman and doing a search, I found that MikeR on this site had several hundred back episodes that covered that time period and  I believe from that thread they went to Clean.  I recall that the article recounted the '71 Montego race so probably appeared 6mos to a year after the race.  You might reach out to Clean and see if he could look through the '71-'72 issues.  It was a well-written article and it would be fun to read it again.  

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Goodday all,

Am new here and still finding out how this works but Iread your posts with lots of fun and interest.

Haji, sorry for your loss.

But then, what do you all think of this pic in my earlier post? anybody recognises the hull? 

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16 minutes ago, Imbekkable said:

Goodday all,

Am new here and still finding out how this works but Iread your posts with lots of fun and interest.

Haji, sorry for your loss.

But then, what do you all think of this pic in my earlier post? anybody recognises the hull? 

Hi Imbekkable,

Is that a cruising version of Improbable?  Mull design?  Tell us more!

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Well yes, its an exact copy of yours, also cold molded, but then mahogany. Built in 1989 in The Netherlands after the original drawings of Improbable. I still have the general arrangement somewhere.

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Very interesting!

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Well yes it is! I have the boat now for 5 years. I found her in the back of a shed and I am almost done with restoring her. Its a fantastic boat, indeed one of the best designs ever. I do quitte some regattas and the rating is a killer but I do always participate for the line honours. 

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It sounds like the Imbekkable has found a good owner, and you have developed a great relationship...;-). 

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Thanks Haji,

    For some reason DIVA escaped my memory by name. Probably the most outrageous sailing yacht I've ever witnessed. I think ADRENALIN AGAIN the Gougeon Bros Formula 40 trimaran with the 'walking amas' takes a close second. Monomaran is a perfect description of DIVA. 

    I watched from another boat Tats have his two sons don snorkle gear and swim south through the very narrow passage between Little Jost and Green Cay on a JVD FOXY's Wooden Boat event when they still sailed right around the Island. They would alternate the direction every year and that particular year was clockwise and the whole fleet compressed after a long windward tacking duel up the North side. The bigger boats hit a big hole in the wind (wind shadow from Mt Sage on Tortola) and foul current and the flee just before being able to Green Cay and reach off back to the finish in front of Great Harbour.  Tatterall was sailing his old Herreschoff Ketch and his boys in snorkle gear led them through the coral head infested channel and jumped back on boat as they reached safer waters at Sandy Spit. That got them back into the unusually light breeze and they finished ahead of much larger and faster boats who were livid at Tats 'shortcut. He was protested by several boats for not sailing the course with his little stunt but at what passes for a race committee protest hearing at Foxy's was held he read out the NOTICE OF RACE which said to 'proceed from the start around JVD in a clockwise manner back to the start'. No mention of Green Cay being a mark of the course but it had always been implied since no one with any sense would dare attempt the passage that Tat had used. The protests were tossed in order that the party could begin and there was still a lot of mumbling about his having crew in the water to guide the boat around the numerous coral heads. Tatterall was not the kind of guy to gloat over such success and he knew his rules certainly but I always dreaded going into a protest room in which he presided. 

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I couldn't have sold Rumbleseat to a more enthusiastic owner than Robin.  He single-handed her well into his 80's.  In 02 when in Antigua for Sailing Week on Ocean Planet, I was able to crew on my old steed for Robin in a couple races.  He nailed every shift off the cliffs as if he had personal control of the weather.  I expressed my amazement, to which he stated, with a wry smile, in his stately British accent, "that's how you beat those big boats, by simply sailing half the distance!"

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Dear Robin!  What a fine gentleman.  I did (well at least half the first race of) the 1981 BVI Spring Regatta with him on that lovely little Hereshoff Galatea of Tortola.  Reason we didn't finish was that we were T-boned by a Moorings boat in the Charter division which was on port,  neatly removing our mizzen rigging by means of their anchor, still on their bow roller.  Robin was livid, but we had some fine parties after (with the scantily clad mostly lady crew, of course). 

Robin loved to steer to leeward, lying down with one toe on the tiller, and a bit of light line led through a small block on the weather rail to pull the tiller the other way if needed.

Then we had to have another drink when we discovered that when Robin had qualified as a surgeon in London by gaining his FRCS (Fellow of the Royal College of Surgeons) it was my late father who had given him his grueling final oral examination!  I wonder if they were talking sailing or surgery.  Small world.

Back to Improbable.

 

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Can't resist another Robin story...

As you may know, much of the revenue for Robin's clinic was from cosmetic surgery.  At some point "Tits by Tats" was a battle flag created by the crew.  This is one of the reasons (in addition to being a known brilliant sailor) for his familiarity with many of the Rich & Famous, who would go on "vacation" in the BVI and visit Robin's clinic while there.

Anyhow, after one of the races in the 02 Classic Week, we were on Diva rafted next to a big schooner belonging to a friend of Robin's. 1.5 ft of freeboard next to 5ft...  A thinly clad beautiful and well-endowed young female crew member was washing off the extensive varnish work.  

Standing on the deck of Diva in our soaked foulies, we couldn't avoid a moment of mutually admiring the view on the schooner.  That's when Robin looked over to me (and down, being about a foot taller) and stated "You know...not even I can make them that nice"

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Just stumbled on this thread. Only a few days ago I posted on another thread about influential boats that started with praising Ganbere (Doug Peterson) as the greatest. I had posted Red Rooster and Improbable as my picks. Fun to read about both of them here.

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Yes, great thread, getting subscribed.

Our boat is a 45 ft Davidson designed in 74 and influenced by the Mull designs of the period.Kauri cold moulded too. I walk past Tequila every time I go to the boat and I cruised with a Whiting on another Whiting 47 last year, so quite a lot of the thread resonates with me. Thanks for the thread and love the input.

I could look back through the old sea sprays for an article if you'd like too.

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10 hours ago, Haji said:

Can't resist another Robin story...

As you may know, much of the revenue for Robin's clinic was from cosmetic surgery.  At some point "Tits by Tats" was a battle flag created by the crew.  This is one of the reasons (in addition to being a known brilliant sailor) for his familiarity with many of the Rich & Famous, who would go on "vacation" in the BVI and visit Robin's clinic while there.

Anyhow, after one of the races in the 02 Classic Week, we were on Diva rafted next to a big schooner belonging to a friend of Robin's. 1.5 ft of freeboard next to 5ft...  A thinly clad beautiful and well-endowed young female crew member was washing off the extensive varnish work.  

Standing on the deck of Diva in our soaked foulies, we couldn't avoid a moment of mutually admiring the view on the schooner.  That's when Robin looked over to me (and down, being about a foot taller) and stated "You know...not even I can make them that nice"

Thanks for that memory!

Robin's surgery/hotel, the Bougainvillea Clinic, aka "The Purple Palace" in Tortola was apparently constructed by a pair of "friends" who thought it would make a lovely secluded Caribbean retreat for their own special type of clientele.  This worked just fine until both men fell in love with the same waiter at a local Road Town hostelry, and as a result broke up with considerable acrimony. 

Robin bought the place for a song, and history was made.

Back to Improbable.

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Lets spin off a Tattersall thread. But then we would have to do one for Joel Byerly...

    That might just take us down the rabbit hole!

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2 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Lets spin off a Tattersall thread. But then we would have to do one for Joel Byerly...

    That might just take us down the rabbit hole!

Yes indeed. Birds of a feather.  Such happy days.

I was wrong about Robin's leeward steering technique.  Push toe gently on tiller for weather helm and if you had to, bear away.  The bit of string on the tiller (no block) was for tacking.

 

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On ‎7‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 6:03 PM, Haji said:

Have some projects planned already however will be assessing how far the renovation will go. 

Apropos of nothing... if you're looking for bodies to pitch in with the renovation, count me in.  I have a day job, so I can't commit full-time, but I'm only an hour or so from Betts and would love to contribute some weekend time to Improbable's rebirth, if I can...

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2 hours ago, sledracr said:

Apropos of nothing... if you're looking for bodies to pitch in with the renovation, count me in.  I have a day job, so I can't commit full-time, but I'm only an hour or so from Betts and would love to contribute some weekend time to Improbable's rebirth, if I can...

Sledracr, you have a deal.  I'll be in Birch Bay on the 15th and getting Improbable to Anacortes soon after.  Will track you down and coordinate.

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I forget what year it was that my dad let me do our first rudder modification.  perhaps 79, or could have been early 80's. I cut off some of the heavy stainless internal welded frame, and moved the CE of the rudder closer to the shaft in an effort to make it less unbalanced.  Later on we added a "nose" sticking fwd under the sked, trying to balance it some more.  At this point (if at all po$$ible) it's time to just replace the whole rudder.  Pic attached shows my enthusiasm at reducing the weight.  Time to finish the job...

20180610_131222.jpg

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On 7/20/2018 at 7:26 AM, Haji said:

In my case, I'm gravitationally challenged...not heavy enough to have any meaningful effect on the righting moment!  So yes, I've thought of adding water ballast tanks.

But I know that would probably be crossing too far the over the line into "mod" territory...so I do draw the line at certain points!

Built-in 'water ballast'  yes,  that would be a bit far.  Nice strong racks where you might mount some containers of fresh water in various locations, however...

 Great pic,  great thread, GREAT opportunity for someone in that area to partner with one of America's best sailors.  Holy Moses but could the right guy (or girl) get an educational boating experience.  Best luck finding a good core crew that can look after things while you're away - I'm confident you'll figure it out. 

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26 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

Built-in 'water ballast'  yes,  that would be a bit far.  Nice strong racks where you might mount some containers of fresh water in various locations, however...

 Great pic,  great thread, GREAT opportunity for someone in that area to partner with one of America's best sailors.  Holy Moses but could the right guy (or girl) get an educational boating experience.  Best luck finding a good core crew that can look after things while you're away - I'm confident you'll figure it out. 

No. Just no. 10-5gal water jugs is about 400lbs...not enough to even barely affect stability on a boat that size.  But if they come loose in a knockdown they're gonna hurt someone.  The boat is not a daggerboard-era internally ballast IOR boat...stability should be perfectly fine.

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The boat does have 8500lb of Pb poured into the steel keel case.  So plenty of ballast for crewed racing.

Only in extensive shorthanded sailing would the artificial crew (in the form of H2O) be greatly beneficial.  Having sailed with water ballast a lot (twice around) I'm very fond of it.  However almost certainly not the answer for Improbable.  Just a(nother) fantasy....

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Bruce, in my opinion, this is such an iconic yacht that it would be a shame to butcher her too much.  Certainly some deck and running rigging enhancements, and it would be wonderful to see a modern rig on her.  But for the rest, less is more.

Any thoughts of a new transom-hung rudder?  Now that would be most cool.  My old mate Hugh Welbourn would be delighted to help on that, as I believe he sailed on her back in the beginning in the Solent a couple of times.

YMMV.

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3 hours ago, P_Wop said:

Bruce, in my opinion, this is such an iconic yacht that it would be a shame to butcher her too much.  Certainly some deck and running rigging enhancements, and it would be wonderful to see a modern rig on her.  But for the rest, less is more.

Any thoughts of a new transom-hung rudder?  Now that would be most cool.  My old mate Hugh Welbourn would be delighted to help on that, as I believe he sailed on her back in the beginning in the Solent a couple of times.

YMMV.

We'll, agreed, although the rudder iterations were never quite right, even the iconic transom one.  The angle of the transom and unbalanced design made the 2-driver mode necessary when powered up.

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On 7/21/2018 at 6:27 PM, JBE said:

Yes, great thread, getting subscribed.

Our boat is a 45 ft Davidson designed in 74 and influenced by the Mull designs of the period.Kauri cold moulded too. I walk past Tequila every time I go to the boat and I cruised with a Whiting on another Whiting 47 last year, so quite a lot of the thread resonates with me. Thanks for the thread and love the input.

I could look back through the old sea sprays for an article if you'd like too.

Ahoy JBE,

Have a pic or two of your cold-molded Davidson?  Not many kauri boats on this side of the Pacific! 

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1 hour ago, Haji said:

Ahoy JBE,

Have a pic or two of your cold-molded Davidson?  Not many kauri boats on this side of the Pacific! 

The only other one I know of is the old Farr 53 Zamazaan on SF Bay.  Still racing, and giving a lot of people a lot of fun.

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50 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

other one

Pendragon? (the 34)

Still going strong as "Violetta" down in Newport Beach.

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2 hours ago, P_Wop said:

The only other one I know of is the old Farr 53 Zamazaan on SF Bay.  Still racing, and giving a lot of people a lot of fun.

Zamazaan's a woody? Who knew!

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31 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Zamazaan's a woody? Who knew!

I think I once knew that, but had forgotten.  Don't know the planking config.  FWIW, on Improbable there are two 1/4" diagonal skins on the inside (well, outside of the longitudinal stringers), and one 1/2" fore/aft skin on the outside.  If it had been me, would have put the diagonals on the outside....but it is what it is.

Speaking of Zamazaan, I do remember one of the Singlehanded Farallone races where I got first on elapsed time in the little carbon Azzura 310 sportboat, after Zamazaan got DQ'd for motoring part of the way in at night....

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51 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Zamazaan's a woody? Who knew!

Kauri through and through.  The wood's worth more than the boat, I'd think.

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On 7/24/2018 at 5:10 AM, Haji said:

Ahoy JBE,

Have a pic or two of your cold-molded Davidson?  Not many kauri boats on this side of the Pacific! 

Hi Haji, hundreds... but in the meantime I snapped this one of Tequila for you  walking past on sunday ,as her name came up earlier as a great competitor of your boat earlier in the thread.

20180722_122716.jpg

 

 after the last refit they did a proper job of the boarding platform/ scoop , and she's still in the Whiting family. I don't actually know what Tequila is made of come to think of it

 The darker boat here is Taranui III owned by Tony Whiting. She was ex Neeleen and is cold moulded to  1 1/4 in, Tony worked on her  in build when he was 18  beside other Whitings and Keith Eade. Keith Eade is  a very well known boat bulider who built all the  Mull 40 and 42's here, there's agreat link with  Mull designs and Kiwi boats in all sorts of ways. . She is different to Tequila. Tequila wasn't built to IOR and is quite firm in the quarters, but Neeleen/ Taranui was ( you see it in the transom particularly) and she became the plug for the rest of the Whiting 47's. She had a life cruising the pacific for 30 odd years  before Tony bought her a few years ago and started racking up Pacific miles himself. Tahiti next I believe , and then South America.

20170920_131322.jpg

 Our hollowed out kauri log, Riada sailing in Fiji last year.

 

P1020009.jpg

 Quality  cold moulded boatbuilders  names of that time who jump out at me are Atkinson, Brin Wilson and   our boats builders, Donald brothers.( amongst others) Fantastic materials and even better skills.

and a reference here to Gary Mull as part of the brief for Riada's design.

 

scan0001_1.jpg

We still have lots of cold moulded boats here but they aren't valued very highly in general( apart from a few people like myself), which I believe is wrong.

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Wow, thanks for those photos JBE.  Tequila looks in fantastic condition for a wooden boat of her age.

I had remembered the production version as being the Reactor 45', but you mention 47' - I may have got that wrong, so Tequila must be 45'.  Still a very attractive boat, and yes, the lolly scoop looks better being properly built in!

Your "hollowed out log" looks sweet also, congratulations.

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Raced a lot against 'NELEEN' when she was brand new, out in Hawaii. Owner was a Pan Am pilot, he built most of the cabinetry himself & flew it down to the builder. His wife was confined to a wheelchair so the interior was laid out to allow her full mobility. Name was a mix of his last name & wife's first.

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Thanks JBE!  

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So Improbable was 2000lbs overweight according to Sleddog. I remember the radical looking red boat with transom rudder being launched in Auckland. Word was that Improbable would be a good surfer - but at 2 grand extra weight, that would have damaged performance.  - and the informed locals said so. This was John Spenser period: Sirocco,  Infidel and so on - which were very light boats even back then.

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2 hours ago, Groucho Marx said:

So Improbable was 2000lbs overweight according to Sleddog. I remember the radical looking red boat with transom rudder being launched in Auckland. Word was that Improbable would be a good surfer - but at 2 grand extra weight, that would have damaged performance.  - and the informed locals said so. This was John Spenser period: Sirocco,  Infidel and so on - which were very light boats even back then.

With the success that Improbable had despite being overweight, imagine how she would have done if closer to the target.

Now that the boat is empty, I'm interested in seeing if we can get a rough figure for the current weight when we haul out in August. She's floating much higher.

I'm sure that I can get at least 500lbs off, maybe more.  There's a long list of things I've been thinking about, ever since 76 when dad bought the boat.

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