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DialedN_07

Replacing Lines/Sheets/Halyards: Question

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In my search for a new boat, one of the things I'm taking into consideration is the replacement costs for various items (sail, mast, rudder assembly, lines, etc)
My question comes in regarding (forgive my lack of proper phrasing here) the lines/sheets/halyards.  Basically all of the *cough* ropes on the boat.

Is it best to get these from the manufacturer if available? Or would something at the well-stocked marine supply store suffice.  I'd like to learn a little bit about this topic, so any input would be appreciated as well.

The total cost of $181 direct from the manufacturer is not as bad as I thought it could be, but with no prior experience, maybe that's twice as much as I should be paying???? 

Centerboard lines (2) $27    Rudder controls lines (set) $18    main halyard $21    jib halyard $19    main sheet  $32      jib sheet  $36     outhaul $1    downhaul $1    traveler rope $6    topping lift rope $20

Boat will be in the 14 ft range (as it currently stands)

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Cost depends on the type of line and construction. Dynema will be a lot more than Dacron. Another thing to consider is what the line will be expected to do. I replaced the Dacron spinnaker sheets on my 505 with Kevlar core sheets. I found out that I also needed to beaf up the anchors for all of the deck hardware because there wasn't the shock absorption of the Dacron stretch anymore. Some of the prices look a little low. When I built my Swift Solo, 3/4 of the price of the boat was in the rigging. 

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53 minutes ago, TeamFugu said:

Cost depends on the type of line and construction. Dynema will be a lot more than Dacron. Another thing to consider is what the line will be expected to do. I replaced the Dacron spinnaker sheets on my 505 with Kevlar core sheets. I found out that I also needed to beaf up the anchors for all of the deck hardware because there wasn't the shock absorption of the Dacron stretch anymore. Some of the prices look a little low. When I built my Swift Solo, 3/4 of the price of the boat was in the rigging. 

Good info. Thanks!

I did not price anything metal in this estimate. Those obviously would be much more $.

How can I determine what type of line the boat comes with? I've had no luck determining stock diameter or type when looking at mfg websites.

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Any chandlery should be able to supply ropes for any regular sailing yacht. If you are uncertain about the type of rope, take it with you, tell the staff your boat type and they will be able to help. Unless the existing ropes are obviously terrible (casing worn through, ends very frayed, UV degraded, VB cord or polypropylene) they will last a season or more. Replace as required thereby breaking up the lump sum costs into smaller portions.

This may seem rude but here goes anyway. If you can't afford to replace a set of tyres on your car, can you really afford a car. Same goes for ropes and sails on a dinghy or yacht. Buy half the boat you can afford.

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26 minutes ago, Ncik said:

Any chandlery should be able to supply ropes for any regular sailing yacht. If you are uncertain about the type of rope, take it with you, tell the staff your boat type and they will be able to help. Unless the existing ropes are obviously terrible (casing worn through, ends very frayed, UV degraded, VB cord or polypropylene) they will last a season or more. Replace as required thereby breaking up the lump sum costs into smaller portions.

This may seem rude but here goes anyway. If you can't afford to replace a set of tyres on your car, can you really afford a car. Same goes for ropes and sails on a dinghy or yacht. Buy half the boat you can afford.

All good advice and much appreciated, no offense taken.

The $200 cost of replacing the ropes is no big deal at all.  The question regarding cost mostly stemmed from never buying marine supplies before.

I know with my other toys that the manufacturer items are 3x true cost of a similar quality item elsewhere.  I don't do cheap, and I'm not really interested in compromising.  However, if the ropes should only cost me $50, then I'm an idiot for paying $180.  And the other way around too.  If the mfg. doesnt charge an arm and a leg for ropes, I could probably feel confident ordering other replacement parts or upgrades from them in the future as well.

The particular boat I put an offer in on is in above average condition except all of the "ropes". Yes, I could sail a season with them, but if I'm going to order one, it may be a great way to learn the boat upfront to go through the process of replacing them (my first boat)

I was also looking for some experience such as "buy x instead of y type because _____ or ____" or "this type of line set is better because of ____".

Just opening the topic to see what I can learn.  Thanks for all the help so far

20180606_175800.jpg

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really depends on your goals. Ultimately, i buy all of my cordage from either an online chandlery or in person... and never a "laser/29er/420/whatever" halyard/sheet/whatever. I know that my spinsheets had to be x feet long, and that i liked them to be between 1/4-5/16" thick. I knew my main halyard had to be x' long and that i wanted 1/8" 12 strand SK78, etc.. Some lines, like the mainsheet, i always tried to feel in person because i wanted a specific texture. I never had the prettiest boat, but my goal was to have the best rigged boat. Why? I like rigging, i like cordage that does the best job possible. 

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6 hours ago, TeamFugu said:

Cost depends on the type of line and construction. Dynema will be a lot more than Dacron. Another thing to consider is what the line will be expected to do. I replaced the Dacron spinnaker sheets on my 505 with Kevlar core sheets. I found out that I also needed to beaf up the anchors for all of the deck hardware because there wasn't the shock absorption of the Dacron stretch anymore. Some of the prices look a little low. When I built my Swift Solo, 3/4 of the price of the boat was in the rigging. 

really? I'd have thought 3/4 of the cost was mast and sails? 

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Perhaps you're pricing different quality lines? I find that the manufacturer's "sets" are well priced for boats I sail.

And dinghy line costs can be 4x and even 10x across different line qualities. Modern boats (and sailors!) want dyneema core, and that costs extra. You can get some budget dyneema lines with censored slippery cover layers! Made that mistake _once_ for my mainsheet. When I chose a good grippy cover, cost was 4x.

The budget dyneema lines still have their uses, but you will get burned buying strictly against cost/budget. 

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I mean, relatively speaking, the cost of cordage for 14' boats is pretty damn minimal. I don't think i spent more than $200/yr rotating lines out on the 29er even on a bad year - and i bought a lot of top shelf stuff. For a racing keelboat you can spend that much on a single halyard very easily. 

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This is a very fair question, and the original poster is wise to be wary of paying inflated prices for part from the original manufacturer.  However, as has been stated, some manufacturers (and some aftermarket suppliers) are very reasonable on certain parts, particularly line packages.  Not knowing the specific lengths and diameters of the lines you need, the cost breakdown you list does not look unreasonable for a 14' boat.  The nice part about buying original lines is that the diameters and lengths will be as the designer intended them to be.  And if the boat is old, it is a really nice update that is quick and cheap.  Going forward, you can replace them one by one, but this way you get back to the original settings all at once.   You can also simply take the lines off the boat (I'd label them if you are not really familiar with the boat yet), go to your local marine store, and price out what you would need to replace them.   I fine my local store to be quite expensive for line by the foot.   When ever I find myself in Defender, APS, or another store that carries high-end cordage, I always sort through the off-cut bin to find useful sized line cheap.   So most of my replacement needs can be met from my workshop.  

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Sails are the big expense. Hardware next. A good ratchet block (very much worth having IMHO) is $75 and up. Of course, a simple dinghy only needs 3 and a dinghy with spinnaker only needs 5 or 6, so that limits the damage there.

FB- Doug

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The OEM pricing you are quoting sounds fairly reasonable to me. .. and they will send everything cut to length, correct diameter and so on. It’s a simple, fast and easy solution. Unless you are getting into ultra competitive racing and have specific performance standards that you are expecting from your lines.

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I ended up replacing all lines except the two centerboard lines, as they were still in really good shape.  I also purchased a topping lift kit (rope included) to keep the boom from falling down while I'm pulling up to the dock.  Did that once, and said never again.  I looked like a fool, and it got a little bit hairy floating in to the dock because I couldn't move around in the boat like I needed to
Total cost came out to be $159.89. And the boat looks and feels much better.  Plus I now have back-up lines, which is great in a pinch.

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There’s nothing like reaching a project goal on budget. Job well done!

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