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Vakaros Atlas vs Racegeek D10

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Does anyone actually have either of these ? What do you think of it ?

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I have a racegeek. After some fiddling it works as advertised except that I have not yet been able to get any nmea data out of it (via wireless) but I'll admit that I have tried that much. The display is excellent with good readability in different light conditions. The app also works well and i like the interface. 

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Drop me a PM if there's anything we can help with

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We're happy to answer any questions either here, PM, or contact us through our site. Our first round of pre-order Atlases ship in Q3. We're currently doing testing now and through the summer - we'll be posting updates from the sailors helping us do this across various classes.

You can read about our design process on our blog

- Todd & Jake

https://www.vakaros.com

IMGP1509_crop.jpg

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Bump, I would love to hear from some real world users

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If it's any help Judd Smith paid for his own d10 and Bruno Pasquinelli gave us some very direct feedback. I'm sure you'll get a straight up answer from either.

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Talked to the guys that use the race geek on juds boat, they hate it compared to the velocitek tactic combo. Jud likes the big numbers though. The big problem is that the buttons have a weird delay where you have to time it rather than just hit the button. Apparently when they ping they press the button about a second before the mark then release it when your exactly on the mark. Much bigger problem when working with the start timer because it’s not always apparent when 1 second before the gun actually is. But jud likes big numbers so the guy he’s paying at the front of the boat just has to deal with it.

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This does take a bit of getting used to, mostly because people instinctively expect it to work like a smart phone where as the d10 is set up to work in a wet environment with salt wet sails and ropes flicking off the surface.

The buttons trigger when you lift your finger off the screen. So you get the physical comfort of touching something while you wait for the ping and the accuracy of a lift vs a push and lift.

The actual touch required is 0.3 seconds. If a 1 second error is an issue the 4 minute can be synced to by just pressing the circle again. We did look at adjusting the times based on when the button was pressed, but it didn't actually make a material difference to performance on the water. Based on feedback  trust in distance to line is a lot more important.

The reason we went for touch is that it removes the perishable buttons and reduces the mechanical challenge in terms of waterproofing the unit, which should make it more reliable and last longer.

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when's the next batch coming out?

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Sail 22 have units in stock and we will be taking orders on the website imminently.

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Beware ! Sail22 confirmed my order in December for $999, never delivered, and now says the price is $1425.

An interesting way to do business ...

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I finally got the Racegeek hooked up on my Seascape 24.  I still need to figure some things out, but on its first trip tonight, it was nice.  Real easy to read and responsive.  There were a couple of things that didn't seem to work right, but I think it is more of an issue of getting it set up correctly.  I plugged it in for the first time about 10 minutes before we left the dock.

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Extremely envious of the Seascape 24. Nice work!

If there's anything you need help with the best way to get hold of us is via the Help button on the bottom right of the racegeek.ie home page. We're always interested to hear what you had trouble with so we can improve it.

And don't forget to register at racegeek.io so we have contact details for wifi password confirmation etc.

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d10s now back in stock world wide via www.racegeek.ie

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On 7/22/2018 at 3:36 PM, rgeek said:

d10s now back in stock world wide via www.racegeek.ie

any annapolis boat show specials? :-D

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... we are showing some of the new stuff at Annapolis:

Smart Repeater mode (anyone who has updated to v1.3 has this already):

For people who want to use the d10 as a 30/30 + 20/20 repeater for their existing system but still have all the race functionality available for when they are racing.

 image.png.c8ce54f80f90d03ec79b4ecd178a2650.png

Performance analysis (entering beta after we get done with the show):

image.png.e4133fe9bd880fd2229becf90d54e398.png

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We're here at Annapolis too! Come check us out in booth F14 and see an Atlas in person! As for reviews, we've been having great feedback from the teams currently using the Atlas: 

“This product is superior to the others we’ve used. The GPS is updating much faster. It really
lets you know where you are, even when you are approaching the line at 20kts.”

-- Morgan Larson
XS Energy


“The instruments are really adaptable to what we’re looking to do: everything from heel angle,
distance to the line, accurate speed and heading. The display is great; you can see it from
anywhere on the boat.”

-- Taylor Canfield
Extreme2


“The Vakaros Atlas updates very quickly compared to other competitive products. It gives you
that extra second to think and respond quicker. It’s a lot more reliable in terms of being able to
trust distance to line especially when accelerating [quickly]. The screen is very good. Being able
to read it from anywhere on the boat is a big advantage.”

-- Ian Williams
REV

We've also been working with Stu Johnstone testing our wireless paddlewheel interface which he's a huge fan of.

We're just getting started, but we couldn't be more excited about what's coming!

https://www.vakaros.com/atlas

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They should rename this post; The race boat electronics new wave.

JC said he'd stopped by to say hello.

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Here is how I see it

 

Vakaros:  Great unit but a little too small for anything than dinghies/small sporties, Really great display in terms of readability and angle of view - and NO issues with polarized glasses.  Wonder how well the bracket will hold up in real life - alu with stainless springs - could be great or may need to be replaced on a routine basis.  

Rgeek - Great size but some downsides are:  For use on sporties/dinghies it needs to have a better power solution.  Find a way to get rid of the connector on the back and put a battery that is permanently (or via waterproof connector/ wireless power transfer) connected to make it a self powered unit.  The current version is not suited for the small sporty/dinghy market.  The bracket looks like it was manufactured by Mickey Mouse and does not instill confidence that it will not go swimming

 

For both - get the price to the $1K range

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We have been working with the Vakaros team for a few regattas now and even after just the first event with pre production units we decided it was worth it to invest the cash and purchase 3 units. This meant we were not only spending the money on new gear but also setting aside a full set up of our previous instruments and spares. 

Coming from a team that is used to having a bunch of accurate data to not only use onboard but to analyze post regatta the Vakaros was a unique product in the market for the M32. I for one am very excited to see the continual improvement the team at Vakaros has been working on and absolutely stoked to  hopefully get the opportunity to use more of the family tree the guys are working so hard to introduce into the marketplace in the very near future. 

To put our teams experience into a cliff notes version from first impressions onward ....Holding the unit in your hands reminds me of the first time you get a brand new apple product in your hands or like closing the door on a fine German car....It just has a certain finished feeling to it that just exudes quality, Once firing up the display everyone was in aww at the angle of view and the clarity of the displays (we run one display on the bow sprit and two on the side of the rig of the M32), ZERO issue with polarized sunglasses which to be honest with you I am still not sure what kind of voodoo those guys put into the thing as I have used all types of instrument systems and have never had anything close, Start function is actually taking us some time to gain confidence in and not because its not correct its just so much more accurate than anything else we have used on these boats that its hard to remind oneself that we have that tool (and to trust it!!!), and lastly the customization of each individual display both on board or from boat to boat......I know of the 4 teams using these units at the worlds all boats had a individualized set up of what and how data was displayed and even how some of the data was being "reported"...just on our boat alone we had two screens mirror imaged and one other unit with its own set of data displayed all linked and talking to each other to give us different possibilities of even more data we could use.

To say we have been impressed at not only what has been delivered now but more importantly what we think we can do with this system in the very near future for a fraction of the cost of what we thought we would need to spend to retrieve less accurate data would be a understatement. Its safe to say that you can put the Extreme 2 team in the fan boy column. 

    

 

 

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Yeh neither is class legal for dinghies and the d10 too large for foilers, multihulls and the star. We designed the d10 for 20ft wanting to use a transducer up to 35ft as a full function repeater with benefits. So can't disagree. If you want a clip on an instrument for a 20fter then the Novasail has always been the bang for the buck option and a Prism and Prostart is a grand US.

People buying a d10 on its own tend to be buying it as a repeater for something bigger than a VX One. $1,425 vs $2,000 for a pair of GNX120s.

For a J/70 etc. the options are:

Racemaster with transducer inc battery/solar + prostart: $1,640 + $599 = $2,239. You might knock a couple of hundred off that online.

Triton with transducer + prism + prostart + battery + N2K parts option: $949.00 (price on Defender rather than list price) + $399 + $599 + approx $250 = $2,197

d10 + transducer + battery, shipping included from Sail22: $1,425 + $574 = $1,999

Just sayin'

... It's connected to the boat by the cable fella. It's not going anywhere.

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The first one to come up a  nice Expedition style screen showing showing boat, lay lines, marks,  Etc. will get my vote. (purchase)

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That won't be us. We believe in people having access to the key numbers at the mast and then getting their heads out of the boat.

The fancy stuff belongs on the tacticians' tablet/phone. And in that respect why not just connect Expedition via the wifi?

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9 hours ago, rgeek said:

That won't be us. We believe in people having access to the key numbers at the mast and then getting their heads out of the boat.

The fancy stuff belongs on the tacticians' tablet/phone. And in that respect why not just connect Expedition via the wifi?

 For me a picture is worth a thousand words. The readability of current tablets/phones with sunglasses on in full sun leaves a lot to be desired. Looks like Vakaros may be heading in that direction.

If you had Expedition or an Expedition like program ruining internally in one of these units with a wireless wind and water speed transducer you would have everything you need for most boats at the fraction of the price of what we have in the boat now. You could buy multiple units and have them anywhere you would need them.

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Thanks for all the kind words, feedback and ideas. Working with Extreme2 and the other M32 teams has been a great experience and a huge help to us in the development of the Atlas. We’ve learned a lot from the pros, and they helped us understand a really important lesson: there isn’t one “right” way to set up an instrument, even for one design boats racing in the same event. They each ran slightly different setups for M32 Worlds with customized display layouts, and damping. The flexibility of the Atlas and the fact that it has a graphic display make easy to customize exactly the way you want. This has been one of our key goals from the beginning--for us, the idea of building a fixed character display in 2018 just didn’t make much sense.

 

A couple other points:

--We love the idea of an expedition-style starting screen, something we’ve been working on. It won’t be the right choice for every sailor or every boat, but we want to provide the option. We’re also working with Nick White on integrating wirelessly with Expedition, for some of the larger boats we’re working with (Farr 40, TP52 etc.).

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--For sport boats like the J/70, we’re releasing a small, wireless interface box that will plug into most existing paddlewheel transducers. The box has an internal rechargeable battery and can power the paddlewheel for about 6 months--just hook it up at the beginning of the season and you’ll be all set. Stu Johnstone tested a prototype at the J/70 Worlds and loved it. Total cost for an Atlas and paddlewheel setup is around $1500 US, with global pricing (we pay any VAT). Paddlewheel interface will be available by the end of the year. 

h5knK2bKH6HyrVODsRjmD1a-fXA4fRmO1wLz8RdUaqyo-kyTP9GTCZiTWOVqGP01FHqam_BNAh3luSXULEsLdWtSEObpsOjaQi4BVhaf4c5u2W3Mcx7B79ZxPSzyy19457oRZamI

--We haven’t seen any issues thus far with corrosion on the mounting bracket. It's anodized 6061 Aluminum and 316 SS hardware, so we expect it to last a long time. That said, we stand behind the Atlas with a 3 year warranty.

--It was great to meet some of the guys from Racegeek at the Annapolis show and talk about how to push instrumentation forward. To help answer questions about size, here’s a side-by-side comparison (the color of the Racegeek looks more uniform to the eye than with the camera).  The Racegeek does have an impressively large display!

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On 10/9/2018 at 9:21 AM, arr4ws said:

any ideas when well be able to order a full paddlewheel setup?

We're working on finalizing pricing and manufacturing now. Expect to be taking orders for the paddlewheel interface before the end of the year. We'll have a special introductory price for all our Atlas pre-order customers. 

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On 10/6/2018 at 4:07 PM, Wang said:

Once firing up the display everyone was in aww at the angle of view and the clarity of the displays (we run one display on the bow sprit and two on the side of the rig of the M32), ZERO issue with polarized sunglasses

    

 

 

Trying to get my head around this. Bow Sprit? 

Maybe I should try this on my V640!   It'll keep it out of the cockpit!

Oh and plus one for the Novasail.  I've been using the 360 for several years now. Very solid and dependable.  Crap mast bracket though.

Curious about using the Vakaros as a Exp repeater for tactician on bigger boats. 

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16 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

Trying to get my head around this. Bow Sprit? 

Maybe I should try this on my V640!   It'll keep it out of the cockpit!

Oh and plus one for the Novasail.  I've been using the 360 for several years now. Very solid and dependable.  Crap mast bracket though.

Curious about using the Vakaros as a Exp repeater for tactician on bigger boats. 

On the M32 he means just in front of the front beam. There's no jib on those boats so it works pretty well. We'll have more info on our Expedition integration as that feature gets further along. 

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2 minutes ago, Vakaros said:

On the M32 he means just in front of the front beam. There's no jib on those boats so it works pretty well. We'll have more info on our Expedition integration as that feature gets further along. 

Oh that M32!! I thought he was talking about the Melges 32!

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1 minute ago, Hitchhiker said:

Oh that M32!! I thought he was talking about the Melges 32!

Haha, yeah it was always confusing for me too. Funny mental picture to think of it on the sprit of a Melges 32, though it would be a great demonstration of our waterproofing and durability! 

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15 hours ago, NYBOZO1 said:

Yo Mr. Vakaros!

When are you going to start shipping the prepaid units.  

Thank you!

Pretty soon! We're just waiting on some final items from our suppliers and we can ship the first round pre-orders. Look for an email Monday to all our pre-order customers with a detailed update. 

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Plug & play

d10 hooked up straight to the speed, depth and wind of a stock Tacktick set-up via a T122. No additional batteries and the lowest power draw display technology for low consumption, long life and minimised environmental impact.

Nav with the d10s built-in windward/leeward and fixed mark functions, or a tablet connected to the d10s wifi.

image.png.751d8145fe619a40988cf7344f2c8cdf.png

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