TMSAIL

A more balanced view of the G7 meetings from the BBC

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31 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

No, you stand with the moron you and your moronic elk elected to "run" it.

 

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8 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

 

 

image.jpeg

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12 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

How's the Peace Agreement coming? Did Lil Kim bow before the majesty of Cheeto Benito' s 4" dick and agree to de-nuke? When is the Nobel ceremony?

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After doing due diligence, I see that the reason the Trump cavalcade lost it was indeed Trudeau's summation speech. He said the same things before the G7, during the G7, and after the G7, because Trump wouldn't move on tariffs. This whole outrage, the "special place in hell" crap, was manufactured by Trump and his minions.

Apparently Trump is such a snowflake that calmly rendering a polite, factual statement is cause for extreme anguish and bombast. There's only one person making Trump look weak, and he sees that asshole in the mirror every morning.

Time for adults to step in before Mad King Donald gets bad gas and nukes Bolivia in a fit of spleen.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/justin-trudea-donald-trump-trade-war-tariffs-a8393481.html

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5 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Actually that is precisely why I used the BBC.  Not my opinion theirs.  

 

Ever tried forming your own?

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55 minutes ago, RKoch said:

How's the Peace Agreement coming? Did Lil Kim bow before the majesty of Cheeto Benito' s 4" dick and agree to de-nuke? When is the Nobel ceremony?

You really have issues with Trumps Dick.  Gay fantasies?  

 

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8 minutes ago, mad said:

Ever tried forming your own?

All the time   You claimed to be ignoring me so you must have missed them lol 

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6 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

You really have issues with Trumps Dick.  Gay fantasies?  

 

Fox News did call it a historic meeting between two dictators...probably a slip, they meant dick tasters.

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Just now, RKoch said:

Fox News did call it a historic meeting between two dictators...probably a slip, they meant dick tasters.

Oh so it is a gay thing.  Ok no wonder you so quickly join the circle jerks. 

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Just now, TMSAIL said:

Oh so it is a gay thing.  Ok no wonder you so quickly join the circle jerks. 

What are you?

Twelve?

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Just now, SloopJonB said:

What are you?

Twelve?

I’m not the one talking about dicks and tasting them. Your selective outrage is shining through.  Just like the light on my flag. 

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10 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

You didn’t. You responded to an edited post claiming I was playing semantics. I assume that is why Bent Dick’s post showed up in your response    

In fact my complete post did address her reaction to the call for free trade. 

How do you know he didn't? Oh wait - you peeked. Again. 

And you wonder why people think your ignore signature is as sad as Happy Jack's was :rolleyes: 

 

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30 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

I’m not the one talking about dicks and tasting them. Your selective outrage is shining through.  Just like the light on my flag. 

   10 hours ago,  TMSAIL said: 

You didn’t. You responded to an edited post claiming I was playing semantics. I assume that is why Bent Dick’s post showed up in your response    

 In fact my complete post did address her reaction to the call for free trade.

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6 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

The rest of the G7 was not attacked only one gave a “backstabbing “ press conference only one was covered by the administrations outrage after betraying a promise.    I wonder why?   Fuck Trudeau 

Hook, line, and sinker. There is no evidence of backstabbing, inconsistency, etc other than Trump's say-so. Given a choice between a proven liar from the GOP claiming something and anyone else saying the opposite - no matter what the subject, we know which side you'll come down on. The same one you always have. Your consistency in that regard is why you are mocked.

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5 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Just as likely Trudeau’s press conference was a stab in the back as Trump is lying.  I understand the need to take sides.  I stand with my country. 

Right. So nationalism trumps facts where you are concerned. At least you admit it now.

 

4 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

I’m basing that on the reaction from the US DELEGATION not just the tweet from Trump.   For the key people involved to go on the Sunday talk shows mad as hell at Trudeau something, that has yet to be reported went down.  

Or, you know, they are doing what the administration has done since the inauguration - followed Trump's lead because acting like Donald has lied (yet again) diminishes them and their country's leverage in negotiations going forward. Nothing more is required than that. You have to imagine facts not in evidence to get to your position. That Trump is a petulant liar with a child's temper and propensity to chuck tantrums when he doesn't get his way is already a proven fact. 

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58 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

All the time   You claimed to be ignoring me so you must have missed them lol 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQY9SlxGpRzoREm9oHXx4u

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7 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Yes it is.  In America you have a right to say what every you want.  If people want to bash their president they have that right.  That does not make them traitors. Ironic is that I have been called a traitor FOR not joining the TDS crowd 

go figure 

You have been called a traitor for sedition: subversion of the traditions and laws which govern our nation. Libel vs state organs for political profit. 

None of it fit “not joining the TDS crowd.” More like contempt for America in service of a political ideology. 

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Every rational person knows a fair trade agreement involves the US taking it up the ass by other countries tariffs.   An effeminate Canadian certainly knows it.

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1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

You have been called a traitor for sedition: subversion of the traditions and laws which govern our nation. Libel vs state organs for political profit. 

None of it fit “not joining the TDS crowd.” More like contempt for America in service of a political ideology. 

Go fuck yourself  You constantly question the honesty and integrity of Republicans.  You have made multiple attacks on the institutions of congress and the executive branch.  You repeatedly claim that Republicans have no right to have any say in how this country is run based on the start of the Iraq war which was over 15 years ago.  

But questioning the actions of the DOJ and the FBI makes someone a traitor and is sedition  FUCK YOU again questioning authority is exactly what the US Constitution protects and encourages.  Not just your side ALL sides. You make those charges while  you conveniently dismiss the reports of the IG and any media report that doesn’t fit your narrow minded view of how things MUST play out.  

You said it - you hold America in contempt.   WTF is wrong with you. 

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16 minutes ago, Rok Dog said:

Every rational person knows a fair trade agreement involves the US taking it up the ass by other countries tariffs.   An effeminate Canadian certainly knows it.

Economic Man is supposed to be rational, but is not.  People tend to do those things that they perceive to be in their best interest.  The key words being tend, perceive and best.  You obviously have the perception that you are being put upon by the rest of the world in some way and that your best course of action involves not having fair trade agreements.  China tried that in the 1400s.  Look where it ended up for 500 years.

 

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24 minutes ago, Rok Dog said:

Every rational person knows a fair trade agreement involves the US taking it up the ass by other countries tariffs.   An effeminate Canadian certainly knows it.

Oh great - another moran heard from.

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3 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Go fuck yourself  You constantly question the honesty and integrity of Republicans.  You have made multiple attacks on the institutions of congress and the executive branch.  You repeatedly claim that Republicans have no right to have any say in how this country is run based on the start of the Iraq war which was over 15 years ago.  

But questioning the actions of the DOJ and the FBI makes someone a traitor and is sedition  FUCK YOU again questioning authority is exactly what the US Constitution protects and encourages.  Not just your side ALL sides. You make those charges while  you conveniently dismiss the reports of the IG and any media report that doesn’t fit your narrow minded view of how things MUST play out.  

You said it - you hold America in contempt.   WTF is wrong with you. 

The current so-called administration is not America.

It deserves every possible bit of contempt that can be directed at it.

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Oh great - another moran heard from.

Joined may 4,. somebody's sock.

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The current so-called administration is not America.

It deserves every possible bit of contempt that can be directed at it.

Constant lies, several have already plead guilty to crimes, the remainder are under investigation, corruption, incompetence, hush money to hookers, grab em by the pussy, pissing off closest allies, Putin's puppets.... They are beneath contempt. 

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28 minutes ago, Laker said:

Economic Man is supposed to be rational, but is not.  People tend to do those things that they perceive to be in their best interest.  The key words being tend, perceive and best.  You obviously have the perception that you are being put upon by the rest of the world in some way and that your best course of action involves not having fair trade agreements.  China tried that in the 1400s.  Look where it ended up for 500 years.

 

So you are saying Canada’s tariffs are bad for them and good for the US?  China’s? Germany’s?

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22 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The current so-called administration is not America.

It deserves every possible bit of contempt that can be directed at it.

Neither was the previous administration.   Or the one before that. Or the one before that. Or the one....

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18 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Constant lies, several have already plead guilty to crimes, the remainder are under investigation, corruption, incompetence, hush money to hookers, grab em by the pussy, pissing off closest allies, Putin's puppets.... They are beneath contempt. 

Obama did all of those except the pussy grabbing and hookers.   He snorted cocaine and hung out with domestic terrorists.  Beneath contempt.

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15 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

I’m basing that on the reaction from the US DELEGATION not just the tweet from Trump.   For the key people involved to go on the Sunday talk shows mad as hell at Trudeau something, that has yet to be reported went down.  

Care to share the makeup of this delegation?  Your message suggests impartiality and loyalty to country over party. 

I have a hunch everyone who went is part of Team Trump and they had their fill of Kool-Aid on the flight to Singapore. 

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10 hours ago, Rok Dog said:

So you are saying Canada’s tariffs are bad for them and good for the US?  China’s? Germany’s?

In a purely classical way, yes. In reality, most things that have tariffs on them are made elsewhere than the US just as well.  So in this case the US blue states that do business with Canada will be hurt and the void in Canada filled by other suppliers.  What I am saying is, given previous history, that if the US continues down the road that it is on, it is truly screwed.  The US has an administration that is using bullying and intimidation as a bargaining tool.  It does not take long for the rest of the world to move away from it and the US become isolated.  This will cause the economic decline of the US.  It cannot stand alone in the world.   I am also saying that Economic Man does not operate in a rational way.  This is where perception comes in.  

In a military sense, Pax Americana is at the tip of a sword, but the end game of nuclear annihilation blunts that sword.

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15 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

All the time   You claimed to be ignoring me so you must have missed them lol 

You were on my ignore list, but I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and read all your posts, rather than just those quoted by others.... More fool me, 2 days of your myopia is enough.

Image result for myopic magoo

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10 minutes ago, Laker said:

In a purely classical way, yes. In reality, most things that have tariffs on them are made elsewhere than the US just as well.  So in this case the US blue states that do business with Canada will be hurt and the void in Canada filled by other suppliers.  What I am saying is, given previous history, that if the US continues down the road that it is on, it is truly screwed.  The US has an administration that is using bullying and intimidation as a bargaining tool.  It does not take long for the rest of the world to move away from it and the US become isolated.  This will cause the economic decline of the US.  It cannot stand alone in the world.   I am also saying that Economic Man does not operate in a rational way.  This is where perception comes in.  

In a military sense, Pax Americana is at the tip of a sword, but the end game of nuclear annihilation blunts that sword.

Get ready to see the world’s fastest moving goalposts. 

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10 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

The current so-called administration is not America.

It deserves every possible bit of contempt that can be directed at it.

That is a problematic assertion, Sloops - it is, and attempts to influence the administration's direction by way of de-ligitimizing the administration's elected authority is contrary to the intent and purpose of the constitution.  There are checks/balances, procedural and legislative tools that exist to exercise that influence, and disregarding those things in favor of de-throning is anarchy, erodes the rule of law and hastens us towards civil war.   

We've been getting way too close to that for my comfort, hence my post of a few days ago. 

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Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That is a problematic assertion, Sloops - it is, and attempts to influence the administration's direction by way of de-ligitimizing the administration's elected authority is contrary to the intent and purpose of the constitution. 

Who is doing that?

I'm talking about being contemptuous of them, not de-throning them.

Mussolini was elected too.

And that other guy.

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27 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Who is doing that?

I'm talking about being contemptuous of them, not de-throning them.

Mussolini was elected too.

And that other guy.

YOU are - and so is everyone else who casually tosses out the idea that "He's not MY president because I didn't vote for him", or "He shouldn't have been elected, and we don't have to abide by any laws/EOs/regulations he establishes"   - If you combine that with the hateful division that's daily becoming more hateful and divisive, with increasingly violent reactions to that hate and division, we need a calm, sober grownup to tell everyone to sit down and STFU - we've got processes in place to limit the damage that can be done, but, we do have to work within those processes.  

I fear that continuing the approach to de-legitimize election results and thus those holding the office is a short-path to a violent civil war.  I've been places where people are shooting at me, and I don't want that to ever happen here again. 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

YOU are - and so is everyone else who casually tosses out the idea that "He's not MY president because I didn't vote for him", or "He shouldn't have been elected, and we don't have to abide by any laws/EOs/regulations he establishes"   - If you combine that with the hateful division that's daily becoming more hateful and divisive, with increasingly violent reactions to that hate and division, we need a calm, sober grownup to tell everyone to sit down and STFU - we've got processes in place to limit the damage that can be done, but, we do have to work within those processes.  

I fear that continuing the approach to de-legitimize election results and thus those holding the office is a short-path to a violent civil war.  I've been places where people are shooting at me, and I don't want that to ever happen here again. 

 

 

Trump and his minions are currently at work dismantling those processes, along with trade agreements worldwide. Mad King Donald deserves no respect, especially from people whose country and leader he just attacked.

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27 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

YOU are - and so is everyone else who casually tosses out the idea that "He's not MY president because I didn't vote for him", or "He shouldn't have been elected, and we don't have to abide by any laws/EOs/regulations he establishes"   - If you combine that with the hateful division that's daily becoming more hateful and divisive, with increasingly violent reactions to that hate and division, we need a calm, sober grownup to tell everyone to sit down and STFU - we've got processes in place to limit the damage that can be done, but, we do have to work within those processes.  

I fear that continuing the approach to de-legitimize election results and thus those holding the office is a short-path to a violent civil war.  I've been places where people are shooting at me, and I don't want that to ever happen here again.

I don't agree that being hyper critical of a hyper incompetent POTUS is de-legitimizing him.

It appears that due to the extreme partisanship and self interest of the Republicans in Congress and the Senate that your processes aren't working very well anymore.

November will tell the tale.

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4 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Trump and his minions are currently at work dismantling those processes, along with trade agreements worldwide. Mad King Donald deserves no respect, especially from people whose country and leader he just attacked.

There's a difference between not respecting the individual - and damaging our system because we dislike the person that system put in leadership.  I don't care what anyone says about Trump - suggesting that "his laws" and "his decisions" don't bear the weight of law because we don't like him and disagree with his approach to everything is a dangerous path to go down, and that is my contention. 

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

I don't agree that being hyper critical of a hyper incompetent POTUS is de-legitimizing him.

It appears that due to the extreme partisanship and self interest of the Republicans in Congress and the Senate that your processes aren't working very well anymore.

November will tell the tale.

The issue isn't de-legitimizing the individual - it's de-legitimizing the laws, the process because of our dislike of the individual. 

To the bolded pat, How so?  Is the only way to show that we're correcting course for D's to win?  

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Pretty much.

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

YOU are - and so is everyone else who casually tosses out the idea that "He's not MY president because I didn't vote for him", or "He shouldn't have been elected, and we don't have to abide by any laws/EOs/regulations he establishes"   - If you combine that with the hateful division that's daily becoming more hateful and divisive, with increasingly violent reactions to that hate and division, we need a calm, sober grownup to tell everyone to sit down and STFU - we've got processes in place to limit the damage that can be done, but, we do have to work within those processes.  

I fear that continuing the approach to de-legitimize election results and thus those holding the office is a short-path to a violent civil war.  I've been places where people are shooting at me, and I don't want that to ever happen here again. 

 

 

Really? Because it sure as shit doesn’t look like it to the rest of the world. 

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6 minutes ago, mad said:

Really? Because it sure as shit doesn’t look like it to the rest of the world. 

Do you have a point, or are you asking for a pointer to the explanation of how the checks and balances between the executive, legislative and judiciary branches are established? 

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13 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Do you have a point, or are you asking for a pointer to the explanation of how the checks and balances between the executive, legislative and judiciary branches are established? 

Do you need a diagram to see how those checks and balances are being dismantled?

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5 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Do you need a diagram to see how those checks and balances are being dismantled?

I don't see that the checks and balances are being dismantled at all.  I see people pushing the boundaries - and that that's happened in past administrations as well.  That we don't like how the process is going right now isn't indicative that the process is broken and needs to be tossed - to the contrary, I think a correction to more stringent adherence to the original intentions is warranted. 

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35 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Do you have a point, or are you asking for a pointer to the explanation of how the checks and balances between the executive, legislative and judiciary branches are established? 

Seeing them in action would be preferable, at the moment Trump is riding roughshod over all of it completely unchecked. 

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3 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

YOU are - and so is everyone else who casually tosses out the idea that "He's not MY president because I didn't vote for him", or "He shouldn't have been elected, and we don't have to abide by any laws/EOs/regulations he establishes"   - If you combine that with the hateful division that's daily becoming more hateful and divisive, with increasingly violent reactions to that hate and division, we need a calm, sober grownup to tell everyone to sit down and STFU - we've got processes in place to limit the damage that can be done, but, we do have to work within those processes.  

I fear that continuing the approach to de-legitimize election results and thus those holding the office is a short-path to a violent civil war.  I've been places where people are shooting at me, and I don't want that to ever happen here again. 

 

 

Election results were de-legitimized the moment that our intel/law enforcement community concluded that Russia interfered with our electoral process on behalf of one candidate. The Senate intel committee has also concluded that the Russians interfered.  

We need to know what happened and if anyone in this country was involved in it, so that we can take steps to ensure that future elections are legitimate.  Nothing could undermine the legitimacy of our elections more than to conclude that another country meddled in our elections, without taking steps to ensure that they cannot do so again.  

So I am 180-degrees out from you on this.  We are ensuring the legitimacy of our elections, not undermining it. I think that the people who are de-legitimizing our electoral process are the ones trying to cast doubt upon our law enforcement, not the people supporting the FBI.  I also think that any American citizen who actually did conspire with folks from another country to undermine our elections should be tried for treason and treated like Julius and Ethel Rosenberg if they are convicted.  

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I’m in London, watching the BBC. Question: who was the winner? Answer: Kim

 

i thought I’d include this as the BBC is now the arbiter of all that is correct. According to righties...

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3 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

YOU are - and so is everyone else who casually tosses out the idea that "He's not MY president because I didn't vote for him", or "He shouldn't have been elected, and we don't have to abide by any laws/EOs/regulations he establishes"   - If you combine that with the hateful division that's daily becoming more hateful and divisive, with increasingly violent reactions to that hate and division, we need a calm, sober grownup to tell everyone to sit down and STFU - we've got processes in place to limit the damage that can be done, but, we do have to work within those processes.  

I fear that continuing the approach to de-legitimize election results and thus those holding the office is a short-path to a violent civil war.  I've been places where people are shooting at me, and I don't want that to ever happen here again. 

I agree with you: Trump IS our president, and his laws and missives have the full force of legitimacy of the US Government behind them.

But I also think that the investigation into meddling in our electoral process and other, related crimes should continue unhampered by partisan attempts to delegitimize our law enforcement's role in protecting our national security. FOX News has been very effective, along with the president, numerous cabinet officials, Respublican politicians and the GOP party establishment at making the investigation and the FBI appear illegitimate and a threat to our national order. 

You've apparently never been concerned by this, or at least never mention it. But it's a lot more pervasive, effective and organized than the grumbling you complain about that you've seen on social networks and internet sites. It is repeated by National News Agencies, the president's staff and press office, and at all levels of the GOP. 

Ya got a log in your eye and are pointing out splinters. 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I don't see that the checks and balances are being dismantled at all.  I see people pushing the boundaries - and that that's happened in past administrations as well.  That we don't like how the process is going right now isn't indicative that the process is broken and needs to be tossed - to the contrary, I think a correction to more stringent adherence to the original intentions is warranted. 

That was exactly MY point - the checks & balances aren't happening because the Republicans who control everything are too craven to do their duty.

Instead they just say they won't run again.

What would it take for you to recognize that Trump is manifestly unfit to be POTUS and should be removed?

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How long would Trump have lasted in a Westminster style government?

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Actually, he'd have been just fine - the Republicans hold a majority.

 

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15 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Election results were de-legitimized the moment that our intel/law enforcement community concluded that Russia interfered with our electoral process on behalf of one candidate. The Senate intel committee has also concluded that the Russians interfered.  

We need to know what happened and if anyone in this country was involved in it, so that we can take steps to ensure that future elections are legitimate.  Nothing could undermine the legitimacy of our elections more than to conclude that another country meddled in our elections, without taking steps to ensure that they cannot do so again.  

So I am 180-degrees out from you on this.  We are ensuring the legitimacy of our elections, not undermining it. I think that the people who are de-legitimizing our electoral process are the ones trying to cast doubt upon our law enforcement, not the people supporting the FBI.  I also think that any American citizen who actually did conspire with folks from another country to undermine our elections should be tried for treason and treated like Julius and Ethel Rosenberg if they are convicted.  

I think you are missing the point - I agree with what you stated there. Go back to my original post on the topic and read forward -  I am talking more about the individual and collective decisions, fanned by partisan rhetoric, to disregard any laws/regulations that "those guys" put in to place, because, after all, they aren't "MY" president, representative, mayor, rather than working through the process to properly address those grievances.  We saw some of this w/the attempts to invalidate, in public opinion at least, Bush IIs win, and again w/Pres Obama's win.  Instead of saying - "Yeah, we don't like him, but he won, let's move on" - it seems to me that there's an increasing propensity to try to negate, if not in fact than in attitude, the results of an election and to try to carry on as though the election results didn't matter.   IMHO, that's a dangerous approach, and one that sober, thinking people ought to oppose. 

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15 hours ago, phillysailor said:

I agree with you: Trump IS our president, and his laws and missives have the full force of legitimacy of the US Government behind them.

But I also think that the investigation into meddling in our electoral process and other, related crimes should continue unhampered by partisan attempts to delegitimize our law enforcement's role in protecting our national security. FOX News has been very effective, along with the president, numerous cabinet officials, Respublican politicians and the GOP party establishment at making the investigation and the FBI appear illegitimate and a threat to our national order. 

You've apparently never been concerned by this, or at least never mention it. But it's a lot more pervasive, effective and organized than the grumbling you complain about that you've seen on social networks and internet sites. It is repeated by National News Agencies, the president's staff and press office, and at all levels of the GOP. 

Ya got a log in your eye and are pointing out splinters. 

No log in my eye - I think that your blinders are getting in the way a little bit.    I am indeed concerned by this - and I think that those who imagined themselves to be kingmakers who violated the basic tenets of American Democracy ought to be held fully accountable for any illegal behavior.   I don't think Trump himself colluded with anyone, I think he's too simple minded to have orchestrated anything like that - I *do* think he considers everything "part of the game" and doesn't realize that this game has consequences that are a lot bigger than his personal win/loss tally. 

 

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

carry on as though the election results didn't matter. 

when they lack legitimacy they don't .

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15 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

That was exactly MY point - the checks & balances aren't happening because the Republicans who control everything are too craven to do their duty.

Instead they just say they won't run again.

What would it take for you to recognize that Trump is manifestly unfit to be POTUS and should be removed?

I think you really are looking for a reason to argue - I *do* believe that Trump is unfit - but, I also see that trying to remove him from office is an endeavor that its fraught with peril for our country, and think that the more pragmatic approach is to use the checks/balances inherent in the system to constrain his ability to cause harm. 

 

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1 minute ago, Mid said:

when they lack legitimacy they don't .

The SYSTEM matters - and that's what gets damaged when we arbitrarily decide to ignore it.  It works, even if the way it works is slow and messy.  

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

It works, even if the way it works is slow and messy.  

that of course is the debate , and whilst it grinds on the damage is being done at a much faster pace .

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Just now, Mid said:

that of course is the debate , and whilst it grinds on the damage is being done at a much faster pace .

No disagreement about that - and as it works, slowly and messily, but works, almost 250 years later makes me really appreciate the intelligence, foresight and vision that our founding fathers showed in how they established the separation of powers ( that BOTH parties here try their hardest to overcome ) and the checks and balances that ensure that the minority vote still counts. 

 

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For your checks and balances to be effective , compulsory voting must be given a long hard look .

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20 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think you are missing the point - I agree with what you stated there. Go back to my original post on the topic and read forward -  I am talking more about the individual and collective decisions, fanned by partisan rhetoric, to disregard any laws/regulations that "those guys" put in to place, because, after all, they aren't "MY" president, representative, mayor, rather than working through the process to properly address those grievances.  We saw some of this w/the attempts to invalidate, in public opinion at least, Bush IIs win, and again w/Pres Obama's win.  Instead of saying - "Yeah, we don't like him, but he won, let's move on" - it seems to me that there's an increasing propensity to try to negate, if not in fact than in attitude, the results of an election and to try to carry on as though the election results didn't matter.   IMHO, that's a dangerous approach, and one that sober, thinking people ought to oppose. 

Oh I get that. Look back to Reagan and Tip O’Neill. Those guys made things work, without selling out values. That is the way our system is supposed to work. 

The Merrick Garland episode is not. 

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4 minutes ago, Mid said:

For your checks and balances to be effective , compulsory voting must be given a long hard look .

I'd not want compulsory voting here - too many apathetic individuals that cast their vote based upon the color of the ink on the ballot, knowing nothing and caring less about the issues being decided.   I would absolutely support compulsory participation in every vote by every elected member of our congress. 

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there are pro's and cons for sure , for mine the pro's outweigh the cons .

the stat which should be of concern to you is that current trends indicate that soon less than 50% will be deciding your POTUS .

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/21/u-s-voter-turnout-trails-most-developed-countries/

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59 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think you are missing the point - I agree with what you stated there. Go back to my original post on the topic and read forward -  I am talking more about the individual and collective decisions, fanned by partisan rhetoric, to disregard any laws/regulations that "those guys" put in to place, because, after all, they aren't "MY" president, representative, mayor, rather than working through the process to properly address those grievances.  We saw some of this w/the attempts to invalidate, in public opinion at least, Bush IIs win, and again w/Pres Obama's win.  Instead of saying - "Yeah, we don't like him, but he won, let's move on" - it seems to me that there's an increasing propensity to try to negate, if not in fact than in attitude, the results of an election and to try to carry on as though the election results didn't matter.   IMHO, that's a dangerous approach, and one that sober, thinking people ought to oppose. 

Fine.

Then you need to hold up Al Gore as your hero, regarding the Bush Jr win. He acted exactly as you would want, and helped to heal the nation, ensure the orderly transfer of power.

You also need to start identify GOP efforts to sew disunion and mistrust of our systems of government.

Otherwise, you are just another partisan hypocrite, and not some sober, thinking person.

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33 minutes ago, Mid said:

there are pro's and cons for sure , for mine the pro's outweigh the cons .

the stat which should be of concern to you is that current trends indicate that soon less than 50% will be deciding your POTUS .

 

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/05/21/u-s-voter-turnout-trails-most-developed-countries/

Soon?   I think that that's been the case in a few of our recent elections.   SO - is the answer compulsory voting, or figuring out better ways to inform and engage the voting populace?   My gut tells me the latter, but, I understand how lazy *I* can be, and I consider myself to be at least partially informed and engaged.   There's gotta be an approach that'll work well for the country, leaving only the fringes pissed off, which would be better than we have now, w/the fringes OK and the majority opinions being relegated to the backseat. 

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there are times when reinventing the wheel needs to take a back seat to using the one we already have .

compulsory voting is shown to work in democracies .

and I do thank-you for not throwing the nanny state argument , easily defeated by citing compulsory driving on a side of the road .............................

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3 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Fine.

Then you need to hold up Al Gore as your hero, regarding the Bush Jr win. He acted exactly as you would want, and helped to heal the nation, ensure the orderly transfer of power.

You also need to start identify GOP efforts to sew disunion and mistrust of our systems of government.

Otherwise, you are just another partisan hypocrite, and not some sober, thinking person.

Once again - you aren't reading what I write, you're looking for something to argue about.   Al Gore, after the lawsuits over the hanging chads had concluded, did indeed behave appropriately.  The rest of the D leaning populace? Yeah - not so much - we were still hearing whinging about "the stolen election" into Pres Obama's second term.  You'll note that I included the reaction from the right to Pres Obama's election as a negative example of what I'm concerned about - and if you actually read what I wrote, I also stipulated that in Trump's case, there may actually be some "there" there, but, while he's sitting in the office?  The things he signs have the weight of law, and we need to respect that.  If we disagree, the process works to constrain and shape the things he gets to sign, and that's where the work needs to happen, not arbitrarily discounting the executive because we don't like him and he may get impeached.   

This isn't a left/right thing, but, a petition to isolate the fringe,  for rational discourse and behavior, and to engage in the established process if you feel strongly about effecting a change. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Once again - you aren't reading what I write, you're looking for something to argue about.   Al Gore, after the lawsuits over the hanging chads had concluded, did indeed behave appropriately.  The rest of the D leaning populace? Yeah - not so much - we were still hearing whinging about "the stolen election" into Pres Obama's second term.  You'll note that I included the reaction from the right to Pres Obama's election as a negative example of what I'm concerned about - and if you actually read what I wrote, I also stipulated that in Trump's case, there may actually be some "there" there, but, while he's sitting in the office?  The things he signs have the weight of law, and we need to respect that.  If we disagree, the process works to constrain and shape the things he gets to sign, and that's where the work needs to happen, not arbitrarily discounting the executive because we don't like him and he may get impeached.   

This isn't a left/right thing, but, a petition to isolate the fringe,  for rational discourse and behavior, and to engage in the established process if you feel strongly about effecting a change. 

You keep giving your side a pass, and ignore the difference between civilians having opinions, and the president and his team announcing to his supporters that Hillary should be locked up. That Obama was a crook. That the FBI cannot be trusted. That there is a Deep State that threatens the overthrow of a duly elected government. Spygate. 

Those dog whistles are powerful given that they are coming from our nation's chief executive, a posting which used to be associated with truth and wisdom, but is now occupied by a lying con man. Read my first paragraph again. That is seditious shit, and our president saying it is effing dangerous.

And he is buttressed by an entire propaganda machine, FOX News, which could give a shit about fair and balanced reporting. 

Start smelling what you are shoveling, pal. You are completely blind to the log in your eye, no matter how hard you try to deny it exists.

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3 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

You keep giving your side a pass, and ignore the difference between civilians having opinions, and the president and his team announcing to his supporters that Hillary should be locked up. That Obama was a crook. That the FBI cannot be trusted. That there is a Deep State that threatens the overthrow of a duly elected government. Spygate. 

Those dog whistles are powerful given that they are coming from our nation's chief executive, a posting which used to be associated with truth and wisdom, but is now occupied by a lying con man. Read my first paragraph again. That is seditious shit, and our president saying it is effing dangerous.

And he is buttressed by an entire propaganda machine, FOX News, which could give a shit about fair and balanced reporting. 

Start smelling what you are shoveling, pal. You are completely blind to the log in your eye, no matter how hard you try to deny it exists.

Read what I wrote, and then see if you still feel the same way.  The only shit being shoveled right now is coming from somewhere near Two street. 

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think you really are looking for a reason to argue - I *do* believe that Trump is unfit - but, I also see that trying to remove him from office is an endeavor that its fraught with peril for our country, and think that the more pragmatic approach is to use the checks/balances inherent in the system to constrain his ability to cause harm. 

 

Is someone trying to remove him from office? I mean, not some nutty rep, but someone with real, legislative authority?

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12 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Is someone trying to remove him from office? I mean, not some nutty rep, but someone with real, legislative authority?

Ask the people who are constantly suggesting that his removal is prerequisite to the "restoration of Republican credibility".   I'm responding to a suggestion, not making one myself. 

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Ask the people who are constantly suggesting that his removal is prerequisite to the "restoration of Republican credibility".   I'm responding to a suggestion, not making one myself. 

Point one of them out. I haven't seen anyone with any national credibility doing any such thing.  Far as I can tell, there's an investigation into Russian meddling in a national election. And the investigators are finding all sorts of meddling.

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23 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Point one of them out. I haven't seen anyone with any national credibility doing any such thing.  Far as I can tell, there's an investigation into Russian meddling in a national election. And the investigators are finding all sorts of meddling.

So - the comment and suggestion has to come from someone with national credibility before it's appropriate for me to comment upon it in this forum?   I'll remember that, thanks for the suggestion. 

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So - the comment and suggestion has to come from someone with national credibility before it's appropriate for me to comment upon it in this forum?   I'll remember that, thanks for the suggestion. 

not at all. you can laugh at them, kinda like I laugh at Happy, Dog and Saorsa.  Although Saorsa has been on ignore since the last kid shooting which he celebrated, and Happy since a couple days ago, just, because, well, Happy.

 

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4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think you really are looking for a reason to argue - I *do* believe that Trump is unfit - but, I also see that trying to remove him from office is an endeavor that its fraught with peril for our country, and think that the more pragmatic approach is to use the checks/balances inherent in the system to constrain his ability to cause harm. 

 

That would be absolutely fine - if they weren't too craven to actually DO it.

Instead they give him a free hand to behave essentially like a dictator.

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3 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

 too many apathetic individuals that cast their vote based upon the color of the ink on the ballot, knowing nothing and caring less about the issues being decided. 

Absolutely correct.

As Eva Dent.

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