NOYC Reporter from a FARR 3 #1 Posted June 11, 2018 Dear Dr. Rules, If a bridge is listed as a mark of a course in the SI's. If you touch it, do you spin? If you touch it and don't spin, is it a DSQ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glenn McCarthy 57 #2 Posted June 11, 2018 DSQ. Had a boat hit their mast into a bridge, the bridge was a mark of the course, they didn't spin, didn't get protested, and got away with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryley 100 #3 Posted June 11, 2018 it's listed as a mark of the course, so 31 says you can't touch it. a single spin exonerates you (44.1). if you don't spin, is it a dsq? Well, did another boat protest under 60.1? Did the RC? Did they do it within the time limit? If the answer to these questions is no, then I don't think you can DSQ the boat. Should the skipper RAF? It sure was close between 1st and 2nd... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryley 100 #4 Posted June 11, 2018 oh and btw, it looks like you had as much wind as we had on block island saturday. maybe a bit more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TJSoCal 19 #5 Posted June 11, 2018 Definition of "mark" says it's an object which a boat is required to leave on a specified side. I think this implies passing to port or starboard, "beneath" isn't really a side. It's impossible to leave the deck of the bridge on either side and still pass under the bridge. So I could interpret it that a bridge pylon could be a mark, but the bridge deck probably an obstruction but not part of the mark. How were the SIs worded? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.finn 73 #7 Posted June 11, 2018 22 minutes ago, TJSoCal said: Definition of "mark" says it's an object which a boat is required to leave on a specified side. I think this implies passing to port or starboard, "beneath" isn't really a side. It's impossible to leave the deck of the bridge on either side and still pass under the bridge. So I could interpret it that a bridge pylon could be a mark, but the bridge deck probably an obstruction but not part of the mark. How were the SIs worded? The specific side in this case is you must sail beneath the bridge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fan 6 #8 Posted June 11, 2018 So if you are sailing around an Island and you run aground do you have to spin? Or are the pillars of bridge and the part of an island that’s underwater treated like the anchor line on a mark and not part of said mark? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SailFast-LiveLong 4 #9 Posted June 11, 2018 With or without the Protest call, do your turns. You earned them, do them. If you don't, you and your crew will know you will cheat if no one is looking. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brass 52 #10 Posted June 12, 2018 54 minutes ago, fan said: So if you are sailing around an Island and you run aground do you have to spin? Or are the pillars of bridge and the part of an island that’s underwater treated like the anchor line on a mark and not part of said mark? Depends how the SI are written. If the SI just specify as the mark 'XXX Island' then the shore and underwater ground forming part of the island form part of the mark. If the SI specify the mark as 'the summit of XXX Island' then a boat can't possibly touch the mark. I have some trouble with a bridge specified as a mark: seemingly a boat is required to pass through the mark, but if the SI say it's a mark then rule 31 applies and I'd be confident that the piers or pylons (or indeed the abutments) form part of the bridge. A pier or pylon is plainly NOT an 'anchor line', nor is it 'an object 'accidentally attached' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Set 60 #11 Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, TJSoCal said: Definition of "mark" says it's an object which a boat is required to leave on a specified side. I think this implies passing to port or starboard, "beneath" isn't really a side. It's impossible to leave the deck of the bridge on either side and still pass under the bridge. So I could interpret it that a bridge pylon could be a mark, but the bridge deck probably an obstruction but not part of the mark. How were the SIs worded? so you arent penalized for hitting a starting mark? dont think so. that is not the definition of mark you made that up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackdaw 27 #12 Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mark Set said: so you arent penalized for hitting a starting mark? dont think so. that is not the definition of mark you made that up. Um I think that's EXACTLY how the RRS define 'mark' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark Set 60 #13 Posted June 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jackdaw said: Um I think that's EXACTLY how the RRS define 'mark' run into a committee boat, see if they make you do turns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottyMO 0 #14 Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, fan said: So if you are sailing around an Island and you run aground do you have to spin? Or are the pillars of bridge and the part of an island that’s underwater treated like the anchor line on a mark and not part of said mark? So wait, you’re in a race, sailing around an island and you run aground .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackdaw 27 #15 Posted June 12, 2018 30 minutes ago, Mark Set said: run into a committee boat, see if they make you do turns. I'm not arguing that point. Just pointing out that this is the actual definition. Maybe they would be better served calling the bridge a gate, and not a mark. Note that that the SIs say 'mark or passage'. Interesting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WoobaGooba 7 #16 Posted June 12, 2018 49 minutes ago, Mark Set said: run into a committee boat, see if they make you do turns. Been there, done that, did turn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rawhide 17 #17 Posted June 12, 2018 Mark An object the sailing instructions require a boat to leave on a specified side, and pa race committee vessel surrounded by navigable water from which the starting or finishing line extends. An anchor line or an object attached accidentally to a mark is not part of it. Doesn't look like the bridge meets the definition of a Mark. No turn required as far as I can see. Should have been a simple comment in the SI"s, you can go through any span etc. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alcatraz5768 128 #18 Posted June 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Mark Set said: run into a committee boat, see if they make you do turns. if you can complete your turns, you didn't hit the committee boat hard enough. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HFC Hunter 78 #19 Posted June 12, 2018 Slap My Bridge Up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeBleaux 16 #20 Posted June 12, 2018 From the SI’s. They even had it highlighted. 59 minutes ago, Rawhide said: Mark An object the sailing instructions require a boat to leave on a specified side, and pa race committee vessel surrounded by navigable water from which the starting or finishing line extends. An anchor line or an object attached accidentally to a mark is not part of it. Doesn't look like the bridge meets the definition of a Mark. No turn required as far as I can see. Should have been a simple comment in the SI"s, you can go through any span etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.finn 73 #21 Posted June 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, JoeBleaux said: From the SI’s. They even had it highlighted. NO! (b) stands for below! Whoever sent this pic to SA should be hired by an ad firm for their click bait skills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brass 52 #22 Posted June 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, r.finn said: NO! ( b ) stands for below! Whoever sent this pic to SA should be hired by an ad firm for their click bait skills. And ( a ) stands for 'above'? So ( a )( b ) stands for 'above or below', like a vertical reverse gate? I think rawhide is probably right: the SI do not 'require a boat to leave' the bridges on any 'specified side'. I think the bridges are not marks. Is it possible to sail the course without going under the bridges? That might change my mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glenoid 9 #23 Posted June 12, 2018 Looks like most , if not all, of the commenters above have not gotten over their failures of the LSAT's, back in their "own " days. Jeeeze.... we do this stuff for recreation, no? Did anybody die here? Do y'all hear a squeak when you walk? Keep sailing, until it ain't fun anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackdaw 27 #24 Posted June 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Rawhide said: Mark An object the sailing instructions require a boat to leave on a specified side, and pa race committee vessel surrounded by navigable water from which the starting or finishing line extends. An anchor line or an object attached accidentally to a mark is not part of it. Doesn't look like the bridge meets the definition of a Mark. No turn required as far as I can see. Should have been a simple comment in the SI"s, you can go through any span etc. This. And the SIs say 'mark or passage' in the list. Marks are listed with a side to pass. Passages just get footnotes about bridge operation. No spins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NOYC Reporter from a FARR 3 #25 Posted June 12, 2018 If we wave the do not touch the mark rule, why not start racing sailboats like this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rawhide 17 #26 Posted June 12, 2018 6 hours ago, JoeBleaux said: From the SI’s. They even had it highlighted. That's nice that its highlighted. But mark in Rule 31 is a defined term. So unless the sailing instructions state that they modify the definition in the RRS there is no penalty for touching a bridge. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Timo42 17 #27 Posted June 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Glenoid said: Looks like most , if not all, of the commenters above have not gotten over their failures of the LSAT's, back in their "own " days. Jeeeze.... we do this stuff for recreation, no? Did anybody die here? Do y'all hear a squeak when you walk? Keep sailing, until it ain't fun anymore. You must be new here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seasailor 1 #28 Posted June 12, 2018 So are people saying that anyone who runs aground during the Round the Island Race should do a turn? Could be interesting on Ryde Sands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Max Rockatansky 116 #29 Posted June 12, 2018 The real question is ‘did R. gain advantage by her actions,’ isn’t it? im not sure that getting pasted to the I-10 bridge is advantageous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d'ranger 853 #30 Posted June 12, 2018 Or, is someone getting too big for their bridges? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mechols 0 #31 Posted June 12, 2018 Great discussion, but moot unless you consider that they gained an advantage in a 39 mile race from a push off. That is the Highway 90 highway bridge not the CSX railroad bridge. There are two other railroad bridges that are potential exits from the lake. Hence the listing in the course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ROADKILL666 4 #32 Posted June 12, 2018 IS HE PUSHING OFF OR FENDING OFF? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C. Spackler 5 #33 Posted June 12, 2018 The BRIDGE is the deck cars drive on. That boat is touching the PILE which supports the bridge. The rules clearly specify only the bridge. Boat is 100% fine touching the piling. No DSQ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bplipschitz 59 #34 Posted June 12, 2018 34 minutes ago, d'ranger said: Or, is someone getting too big for their bridges? Or, perhaps a bridge too far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OutofOffice 62 #35 Posted June 12, 2018 It’s ok provided that, just after the fending off the piling, the boats speed is not greater than than it would have been in the absence of said push... Yes I’m kidding. The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Edit - If 42.3d allows a vessel to scull in the absence of ability to steer, 42.3h and 42.3i would be my defense if I were in his shoes. If they had all the crew members shoving off, then sure they were clearly looking to gain an advantage. However, one 160lb dude one arming a 5,000 lb boat off a piling? Doesn’t scream of “We’re gonna win now, boys”... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryley 100 #36 Posted June 12, 2018 It would have been interesting to see how the local protest committee would have ruled on this one. alas, no one protested, so the results stand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Timo42 17 #37 Posted June 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, ryley said: It would have been interesting to see how the local protest committee would have ruled on this one. alas, no one protested, so the results stand. There's always next year... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryley 100 #38 Posted June 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, smokeandoakum said: Another scenario: DIYC’s Egmont Race SI has a similar table listing the marks of the course and which side they are to be rounded or left. For the Skyway bridge the table says “Through center 3-spans.” I would argue the two outer piles of the center three spans are Marks because the SI’s require you to leave them on a “specified side.” One pile must be left to port and the other pile must be left to starboard; in effect those piles are a “gate”. Therefore, hitting either of the two outer piles which delineate the “center three spans” would require a penalty turn. NOLA might consider making a similar change to their SI's, unless of course they don't care if someone touches a span as long as nobody gets hurt and the boat isn't damaged. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OutofOffice 62 #39 Posted June 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, ryley said: they don't care if someone touches a span as long as nobody gets hurt and the boat isn't damaged. I would imagine they don’t care. Every RC I’ve met of a “fun run race” has this viewpoint. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boudreaux 1 #41 Posted June 12, 2018 So I spoke with the players, and there's a lot more to this than the photo. The SI's allow for auxiliary propulsion to safely clear the bridges, and clearly states a 4kt limit and that you shall not pass another boat while passing through the bridge. Well, another boat in this race took advantage of the auxiliary propulsion to pass this boat underneath the bridge, positioned themselves on this boat's wind, and motored through at over 6 kts. It was due to being blanketed by this passing boat that these fellows are struggling to safely pass through. Would not have been an issue except for this other boats flouting of the rules and committing this unseamanlike act. It being a "fun" race, no one decided to protest this misbehavior. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stardude 1 #42 Posted June 12, 2018 The first three letters of “funeral” are fun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
____G____ 0 #43 Posted June 12, 2018 22 hours ago, NOYC Reporter from a FARR said: Dear Dr. Rules, If a bridge is listed as a mark of a course in the SI's. If you touch it, do you spin? If you touch it and don't spin, is it a DSQ? I was actually there. The rules in this race allowed for boats to use their motor within two boat lengths of the bridge for safety. The wind was basically non existent and there was a current, if memory serves this boat didn't have an engine to use so they were left with fending off the bridge by hand. The rest of us only escaped this problem by cranking up the diesels. If you want to see this no wind action there is a nice video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsUk6-wUKv8&feature=youtu.be Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevlar 14 #44 Posted June 12, 2018 Looks to me that the bridges aren't marks. Some useless language in there but it's pretty clear. Since you have to pass underneath these bridges (unless you choose to fly above them with strength of mind and the fourth mode) this dude is ok for fending off the bridge abutment. It's not a mark. The bridges weren't listed as marks. Certainly adds some strategy and variable to a race to open a swing bridge.. last time I sailed through an opening the tender had some words for me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevlar 14 #45 Posted June 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, ____G____ said: I was actually there. The rules in this race allowed for boats to use their motor within two boat lengths of the bridge for safety. The wind was basically non existent and there was a current, if memory serves this boat didn't have an engine to use so they were left with fending off the bridge by hand. The rest of us only escaped this problem by cranking up the diesels. If you want to see this no wind action there is a nice video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsUk6-wUKv8&feature=youtu.be Come to New York and do an Around Long Island Race. Last year our rounding of Montauk was rather slow. Current controlled us. We got close but managed our way through. It's part of the game. We would have used the engine if we risked grounding or were as close as this. Why is there no engine in the boat in OP's pic? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
____G____ 0 #46 Posted June 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, kevlar said: Come to New York and do an Around Long Island Race. Last year our rounding of Montauk was rather slow. Current controlled us. We got close but managed our way through. It's part of the game. We would have used the engine if we risked grounding or were as close as this. Why is there no engine in the boat in OP's pic? I assume for weight, I believe he usually gets towed out to the starting mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 1,013 #47 Posted June 12, 2018 Just now, ____G____ said: 9 minutes ago, kevlar said: Come to New York and do an Around Long Island Race. Last year our rounding of Montauk was rather slow. Current controlled us. We got close but managed our way through. It's part of the game. We would have used the engine if we risked grounding or were as close as this. Why is there no engine in the boat in OP's pic? I assume for weight, I believe he usually gets towed out to the starting mark I understand all the districts are different, this would be a violation in our district. Boats are supposed to have radios, suitable ground tackle (ie no 8# anchors on string), engines, running lights (battery not specified but last time this was discussed, anybody sailing with running lights there were inoperable due to lack of battery would be deemed to not have running lights). THere's a list of seaworthiness requirements. I guess this guy is nice enough to race against that he can get a tow regularly. Which is a plus. FB- Doug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryley 100 #48 Posted June 12, 2018 57 minutes ago, ____G____ said: I was actually there. The rules in this race allowed for boats to use their motor within two boat lengths of the bridge for safety. The wind was basically non existent and there was a current, if memory serves this boat didn't have an engine to use so they were left with fending off the bridge by hand. The rest of us only escaped this problem by cranking up the diesels. If you want to see this no wind action there is a nice video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsUk6-wUKv8&feature=youtu.be Hmm.. I'm pretty sure that most of our safety regs up here in the unenlightened north require a motor that can push the boat at hull speed. Yawl seem to have a much more relaxed approach. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nolatom 113 #49 Posted June 12, 2018 Wasn't there last Saturday, but been there. It's a swing bridge, so you don't go "beneath" it, just through it. In the main span, there are wood fenders, designed to be rubbed against (okay, by steel barges mostly, it's a tricky bridge in a tideway). So as long as you don't "propel" yourself but just "fend", I kinda think a protest would neither be made, nor upheld. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
____G____ 0 #50 Posted June 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said: I understand all the districts are different, this would be a violation in our district. Boats are supposed to have radios, suitable ground tackle (ie no 8# anchors on string), engines, running lights (battery not specified but last time this was discussed, anybody sailing with running lights there were inoperable due to lack of battery would be deemed to not have running lights). THere's a list of seaworthiness requirements. I guess this guy is nice enough to race against that he can get a tow regularly. Which is a plus. FB- Doug Hmm you know I never thought about it all the boats im on have engines. I know we don't have them on dinghys that race, but I have no idea where the line is drawn that the boat is to big not to have an engine (but you'd think it would be a requirement of a 40nm race). Yeah we are pretty relaxed only a few total assholes. But you got to stay relaxed in Louisiana heat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Expatriated 31 #51 Posted June 12, 2018 21 hours ago, Brass said: Depends how the SI are written. If the SI just specify as the mark 'XXX Island' then the shore and underwater ground forming part of the island form part of the mark. If the SI specify the mark as 'the summit of XXX Island' then a boat can't possibly touch the mark. I have some trouble with a bridge specified as a mark: seemingly a boat is required to pass through the mark, but if the SI say it's a mark then rule 31 applies and I'd be confident that the piers or pylons (or indeed the abutments) form part of the bridge. A pier or pylon is plainly NOT an 'anchor line', nor is it 'an object 'accidentally attached' Nope - running aground going round an island is not touching a mark. Think about if you hit the ground tackle of a mark but not the mark itself you haven't touched the mark or if you anchor do you think the anchor has touched the isalnd - well I guess a good throw could get the anchor onto a beach at times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TJSoCal 19 #52 Posted June 12, 2018 32 minutes ago, Expatriated said: Nope - running aground going round an island is not touching a mark. Think about if you hit the ground tackle of a mark but not the mark itself you haven't touched the mark or if you anchor do you think the anchor has touched the isalnd - well I guess a good throw could get the anchor onto a beach at times. I think I would agree with this - you could argue that "island" is only the land portion above the water's surface. So if you run aground in shallow water near an island you have not touched the island. If you're up on the beach you've touched the mark (but probably have bigger problems than a one-turn penalty). On the original topic, I think looking at the sailing instructions I could say that the route under the bridge is a required passage (not defined in the rules so common usage applies), but the race committee has chosen not to bound the passage with marks which must be taken on a specific side. So the bridge piers (and potentially the deck, if it's low enough that someone's mast could hit it) are obstructions but no part of the bridge is a mark and there's no penalty for touching it. That's the approach I'd take if I was defending myself in the room anyway... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brass 52 #53 Posted June 12, 2018 48 minutes ago, Expatriated said: 22 hours ago, Brass said: If the SI just specify as the mark 'XXX Island' then the shore and underwater ground forming part of the island form part of the mark. A pier or pylon is plainly NOT an 'anchor line', nor is it 'an object 'accidentally attached' Nope - running aground going round an island is not touching a mark. Think about if you hit the ground tackle of a mark but not the mark itself you haven't touched the mark or if you anchor do you think the anchor has touched the isalnd - well I guess a good throw could get the anchor onto a beach at times. 6 minutes ago, TJSoCal said: I think I would agree with this - you could argue that "island" is only the land portion above the water's surface. So if you run aground in shallow water near an island you have not touched the island. If you're up on the beach you've touched the mark (but probably have bigger problems than a one-turn penalty). OK, I'll come around. I don't accept the anchor-line analogy: 'anchor-line', and 'object accidentally attached' are highly specific words of exception in a Definition. Analogy is not justified Don't agree with 'the water's surface' formulation either. I will agree that the 'island' is the land above the high water mark: that's the way 'land' in land-law works for land along a shore-line. So, if you drive up on the beach, you haven't touched the 'mark' until you get above the high-water mark. Pretty hypothetical: if you drive up like that, your race is pretty much over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JimC 97 #54 Posted June 13, 2018 Isn't a bridge a gate mark? Hence the SI stating that more than one span is acceptable? You can sail the wrong side of the gate on any bridge that crosses a channel to an island, and I see no definition that says it *must* be possible to sail the wrong side of a mark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
r.finn 73 #55 Posted June 13, 2018 14 hours ago, ____G____ said: I assume for weight, I believe he usually gets towed out to the starting mark Melges 32s have engines in a well mounted in the cockpit. That's why you don't see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mid 1,217 #56 Posted June 13, 2018 touch a mark , in any way or fashion , and you spin . end of . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryley 100 #57 Posted June 13, 2018 2 hours ago, overlay said: I bet the Etchell fleet loves that rule. No chance of a resurgence in the 12meters 's then? Bwahahahaha We're talking about handicap fleets. Most handicapping authorities have a line in their bylaws like this: 4. outboard engine, or inboard engine with folding prop, or where appropriate, inboard engine with two-blade solid prop in aperture; auxiliary power, sufficient to propel the boat in calm water at a speed no less than the square root of the waterline length in knots, is mandatory. Boats without auxiliary power will only be issued unofficial certificates. so yeah, Etchells without an outboard and 12m that hasn't already been converted to auxiliary power (are there any left?) would not get official ratings. YMMV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fucket 34 #58 Posted June 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, Mid said: touch a mark , in any way or fashion , and you spin . end of . What's a mark? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mid 1,217 #59 Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, fucket said: What's a mark? short for mark of the course , but you knew that else you are on the wrong site Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fucket 34 #60 Posted June 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Mid said: short for mark of the course , but you knew that else you are on the wrong site What's a mark of the course? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mid 1,217 #61 Posted June 13, 2018 1 minute ago, fucket said: What's a mark of the course? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMB 29 #62 Posted June 13, 2018 5 hours ago, JimC said: Isn't a bridge a gate mark? Hence the SI stating that more than one span is acceptable? You can sail the wrong side of the gate on any bridge that crosses a channel to an island, and I see no definition that says it *must* be possible to sail the wrong side of a mark. There is no requirement to say a mark has to be surrounded by navigable water. A bridge is only a gate mark if its defined that way. I think the table shown above lacks a little clarity, even though the title of the table is Marks of the Course, the column heading is Marks or passage. There are five items in the table, three have the work 'Mark' in either the description or the name, the other two are bridges. The notes allow boats to pass through any span of the fixed...... either side of the swing span. You could argue that the end outer pylons of the bridge are marks, but any central pylon does not have required side (since boats are allowed to pass under the next span along). I would say that if the OA wants the bridge to be a gate mark they can state that, and probably should, clarity is king. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geronimo 6 #63 Posted June 13, 2018 17 hours ago, ____G____ said: I assume for weight, I believe he usually gets towed out to the starting mark The motor died after the gas tanks were swapped during the 23 mile motor to the start.... Bad gas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackdaw 27 #64 Posted June 13, 2018 19 hours ago, ____G____ said: Hmm you know I never thought about it all the boats im on have engines. I know we don't have them on dinghys that race, but I have no idea where the line is drawn that the boat is to big not to have an engine (but you'd think it would be a requirement of a 40nm race). Yeah we are pretty relaxed only a few total assholes. But you got to stay relaxed in Louisiana heat. Interesting reading the GYA-PHRF 'rule' regarding engines. If it is intended to mandate an engine on board, I think it's poorly written. I think I could argue that this does not cover the ground. An assumption is not a mandate, and the statement about speed only applies if an aux system is installed! B. PHRF base handicaps are made on the assumption that the boat is in racing condition, the boat has an auxiliary propulsion system suitable for the boat’s design that is either an outboard motor (which is permitted to be stowed for racing) or equipped with a folding or feathering propeller, and that the hull and appendages are unmodified from their original design. Any auxiliary propulsion system must be capable of producing a boat speed in knots equal to 1.0 times the square root of the length of water line in feet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HookEm 6 #65 Posted June 14, 2018 If it is a mark, my rule books says a yacht which touches a mark which begins, bounds or ends the leg of the course on which she is sailing shall retire immediately, unless she claims that she was wrongfully compelled to touch it by another yacht, in which case she shall protest. Clearly a DSQ for failing to protest. If it is an obstruction, a yacht after fouling an object may, in getting clear, use her own anchors, boats, ropes, spars and other gear; may send out an anchor in a boat; may be refloated by her crew going overboard either to stand on the bottom or to go ashore to push off; but may receive outside assistance only from the crew of the vessel fouled. There is no provision for pushing off. I'm sure this clear it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NOYC Reporter from a FARR 3 #66 Posted June 14, 2018 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NOYC Reporter from a FARR 3 #67 Posted June 14, 2018 1 hour ago, NOYC Reporter from a FARR said: What is the correct penalty turn after hitting a mark? (1) Two Turn Penalty two tacks two gybes. (2) One turn penalty one tack one gybe (3) No Turn required on Wednesday Nights Come On it is Bear Can Racing (4) None of the above Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeBleaux 16 #68 Posted June 14, 2018 I like this public shaming thing, much more fun than the protest room. 2 hours ago, NOYC Reporter from a FARR said: What is the correct penalty turn after hitting a mark? (1) Two Turn Penalty two tacks two gybes. (2) One turn penalty one tack one gybe (3) No Turn required on Wednesday Nights Come On it is Bear Can Racing (4) None of the above Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryley 100 #69 Posted June 15, 2018 7 hours ago, NOYC Reporter from a FARR said: What is the correct penalty turn after hitting a mark? (1) Two Turn Penalty two tacks two gybes. (2) One turn penalty one tack one gybe (3) No Turn required on Wednesday Nights Come On it is Bear Can Racing (4) None of the above it's one turn, but the video you posted doesn't show that the offending boat never took a penalty. since the rules also require that the boat get clear and not interfere with any other boats while taking its penalty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EYESAILOR 112 #70 Posted June 15, 2018 13 hours ago, JoeBleaux said: I like this public shaming thing, much more fun than the protest room. Except.....I wonder if it brings the sport of sailing into disrepute ? It it almost looked like the video came from a support boat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites