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Coquina012

Sad, waterlogged Holder 12 monohull

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Question:  Can I repair a waterlogged Hobie Holder 12 monohull by getting at the foam flotation from the top, by removing the deck?  Details:  I bought this little planing hull to teach my boy to sail, which he resisted.  It's a nice 12 footer that I can drop in my lake next door (7 minutes away) and rip around for an hour or two before dinner, and then I am back with little fuss.  The hull has taken some knocks--right along the keel, and it looks to have some stress fissures also along the keel.  Topsides and deck are in very good shape, and the original owner said it had been garage kept.  It looks it.  The boat has absorbed some water, and the bulkheads have probably kept what's in there long enough to saturate the foam flotation.  So:  How do I get the deck off?  Is it feasible?  I am a wooden boat guy, and I can repair this boat--IF IT IS WORTH the work.  I also pondered the possibility of opening it up along the keel, with drilled holes, but (a) I don't think draining the boat is the problem, I think it is full of waterlogged foam, and (b) I searched as much as I could on Google and can't find a blueprint to show where the keel is--assuming there is an aluminum keel.  I suppose there is the possibility of a ply or hardwood keel embedded in glass, but either way, drilling might damage that and I think my problem is waterlogged foam, not draining standing water. Anticipating questions, the boat has an inner drainplug, but then outside, low along the bottom of aft of the stern, it has an exterior drainplug.  Obviously we can get the water out of the interior of the boat, but when we release the plug that is outside, along the bottom of the stern, all we get is some ugly drippage.   Is this a Craigs freebee or is there a way to get to the foam and get it cleaned out?

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What makes you think that it is waterlogged ? Can you hear sloshing ? Small dinghies can be weighed by balancing them on a bathroom scale.

My guess is that there are no bulkheads or keel structure in there. The deck molding is probably bonded to the hull molding all around the gunwale, at the bottom of the cockpit and at the bottom of the mast socket. I'd install inspection ports, large enough to get an arm through, in areas where I could reach most of the between-molding volumes.

Where to go from there depends on what is inside for flotation and what condition it is in.

Lasers use collapsible water containers filled with air and capped off to provide class-legal internal flotation.

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Feisty:  Thanks for your response.  I think it is waterlogged because : 1.  Sloshing:  more sloshing than a college girl at South Padre Island in March.  2.  Mast Partner:  the mast steps into a glass tube, which is internal to the decks.  The mast tube holds about 12" of water right now, and its total length is about 16".  If I vacuum the tube out, it will continually replace for a while.  Eventually it will clear.  3.  Escapade:  the humorous event that led to my finally looking at this thing was turtling (I mean complete inversion) in about 18 knots of wind Saturday, with my wife.  We turtled the boat because it started sinking.  The boat acquired so much water that it eventually sat down about an inch above the top of the stern.  It was impossible to trim the boat and we got caught trying to tack, and dumped the boat.  On a different, colder day, we might have been in trouble.  Instead it was hilarious.  We had a hell of a sail getting back in, maybe 1 mile from ramp, barely afloat, and with much less steerage.  This is a boat that I have sailed pretty hard for about two years, and it handles, as the hype says, like a Laser for two people.  It will get up in a plane quick, maybe in 6 knots, and will blast on a reach or on a dead run.  It is so waterlogged that it has none of its good characteristics.  I have $500 in the boat with an excellent trailer, so if it is a give away, well, not the end of the world.  I have 7 other boats, and this one had a specific purpose.  I ould keep the trailer and be about break even, with two years of use.  But your suggestion of coming in through a new hatch would give me a visual inspection at least.  In an ideal world I would remove the whole deck, clean out the saturated foam, respray, turn the hull, epoxy the fissures, maybe run a strip of glass along the keel, and be back on the road after a half day of work.  But in an ideal world it would be a wooden international 14, so, you know, disposable boat to an extent.  

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It sounds like there is a bigger issue than waterlogged foam. Like some of those cracks are letting in lots of water as you sail. Fix those and the foam won't really matter once it's mostly drained. If you really want positive flotation, put in a couple of inspection ports in the cockpit and stuff in a bunch of empty plastic bottles. As far as the mast tube filling up, that's just weird. Any free water inside the hull shoild drain out through the stern plug.

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Ride2Live:  "Any free water inside the hull should drain out through the stern plug".  Yes,  I agree.  And nothing is draining out.  I have tilted the boat until it was nearly vertical, still nothing draining out.  So there must be some bulkheads in there that are capturing the water, preventing draining and then absorbing into foam flotation. That is what I am basing my conclusion on that it is saturated, water logged foam.  And I just stuck a ruler in the mast step (tube):  9" of water.  Well, I am going to give about 2 more seconds of thought.  

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Boston Whalers are filled with foam and there is lots of info on the web about drying and repair, might be worth a look. In the end it might be so much work and materials finding a new hull (or whole boat) would be an option. A laser 2, taser, vanguard 15 would all be decent planing double handers.

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For such a benign looking little sailboat, those Holders sure are squirrelly little fuckers.

I sailed a Holder 14 for the first time this afternoon. Turned it turtle in less than an hour. 

It was completely my fault. But that little sob sure did  go upside down quickly!

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Yes, limber holes plugged--good guess.  And no, the boat isn't worth much time. But I have it, and it is sitting there, and it might be salvageable.    I am going to get a saw out tonight or tomorrow and cut some hatches, see if I can see into the hull enough to identify where the limber holes are.  That is very likely what it is--causing water to stand, and then absorb over time into the foam.  

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Cutting out a hatch or 2? Cheap, and you don’t need to buy the hatch to cut the hole. 

Waterlogged foam in a foam sandwich boat? Odd, but throw away if that’s the issue.

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Drill a 1/4" hole in the deck somewhere near the mast step area, turn the boat upside down on sawhorses and drain the water out of bow area.

Turn it back over and cut hole for 6" deck plate. Vac out remaining water and dry as much as possible. Before you put the deck plate in, spooge some fiberglass mat inside around the mast step tube.

Install deck plate, go sailing, leave it open afterwards. Suck out left over water with a shopvac.

Lots of dinghys separate the bow from the side tanks, on purpose, because most dinghys leak some when capsized.

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SeeLevel:  all good suggestions.  Have done that drill and drain suggetion, including teh wet vac.  Have not glasses on the bottom, but easy fix.  First I want to see if I can get the boat dry on the inside, before I waste more time.  Salvageable if it's a half day, not more.  Razr,  "If foam is waterlogged, it's a a throwaway", meaning, if the foam is waterlogged the boat is a throwaway?  I believe you are right if that is your meaning.  For that reason I am cutting some panels this afternoon.  I am going to get it out of my yard if it is not immediately repairable (I have 7 other boats).  This little ripper is useful to me because I live about 7 minutes from Folsom Lake, and I can get this thing door-to-door sailing in 20 mins, including drive time.  So...in the meantime, I am attracted to a Nacra 5.8 that is sitting around lonesome in a field not too far from here..maybe that should be my replacement.  But I do not see the ease of in and out that I have with this little guy.  

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I should add a PS:  I am an amateur wooden boat builder, and my fiberglass repair work has been glass cloth set in epoxy.  This boat APPEARS to have a roto-plastic type hull.  It doesn't seem exactly the same as the popsickle kayaks, but pretty close.  Is this epoxy compatible?  Of course I can just stick something and see, but if someone knows I will be grateful for commentary. 

 

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Sealevel, most of what I did this morning follows your logic.  I cut two deck holes, suitable for the screw in plastic ports, and then got a visual.  There is not visible foam--which surprised me.  The hull is sitting with maybe 3" of water, and the mast tube (partner and step) is visible internally.  It appears to have a wax ring similar to a toilet bowl ring at the joint between the hull and mast foot.  It feels like wax to the touch.  Retro repair or original?  Can't say.  The mast tube is standing with a good 16" of water. 

Going to flip the boat, slurry, then cut two drain plugs near the stern.  Might fix the problem.  IF not, boat goes to landfill or free on craigs. 

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Is the ring hard?  maybe it's a glob  of thickened resin put down when the deck went on, cheap way to attach mast tube bottom to hull.

I think I recall those boat's might be vac- u- formed plastic but it's been a while.

And it would make a pretty darn good drinks cooler for a party.

 

 

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No.  The ring is not totally hardened.   It is certainly not cured epoxy, but I understood what you meant when you said resin.  It feels like hard wax.  I think I have found my leak.  The hull has a bad crush point on the farthest forward roller.  Now I am too far in to back out.  I bought $35 worth of port hatches, and two kayak drain plugs.  I am going to install the two plugs under the stern, in what would probably be the buttocks, or the futtocks, I never get that straight.  Then I will seal up the existing interior drain and after the boat is flipped, lay a heavy layer of glass cloth, at least I will if the rotomolded plastic accepts epoxy.  It is interesting to work on this thing.  In some ways, the boat is too fragile, or at least, the trailer it came with has damaged it.  

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15 minutes ago, Coquina012 said:

No.  The ring is not totally hardened.   It is certainly not cured epoxy, but I understood what you meant when you said resin.  It feels like hard wax.  I think I have found my leak.  The hull has a bad crush point on the farthest forward roller.  Now I am too far in to back out.  I bought $35 worth of port hatches, and two kayak drain plugs.  I am going to install the two plugs under the stern, in what would probably be the buttocks, or the futtocks, I never get that straight.  Then I will seal up the existing interior drain and after the boat is flipped, lay a heavy layer of glass cloth, at least I will if the rotomolded plastic accepts epoxy.  It is interesting to work on this thing.  In some ways, the boat is too fragile, or at least, the trailer it came with has damaged it.  

We have a Hobie Holder 12 on a lake in minnesota. It's a glass boat.

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Most trailers for very small boats aren't heavy enough to get into their suspension much and will just hammer the boats to death ...

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Concur.  Fractured forefoot.  The repair will be fugly, and effective.  I will lay some 6" triaxle glass back and through the dagger board case slot.  

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