thomm124

Annapolis- Bermuda Race (Unique Experience)

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So I sailed North from VA Beach/Norfolk on Friday. My outboard died (overheated) on the way out Little Creek, but I said the hell with it.

I'll have a problem trying to dock now or in a few days and I knew the wind was suppose to come up. (although it hadn't at this point early afternoon)

So after I crossed the shipping channel (Thimble Shoal Channel) just ahead of a ship, the wind picked up and I had the tide. My Bristol 27 at one point actually hit 7.8 knots in the deep channel near the anchored tankers close to Cape Charles.

Anyway, I sailed on up to maybe 10 miles or so North of Cape Charles (30 miles from where I started) where the land dips way in to the East.  (near Smith Beach) North of Cherry Point and maybe even with Eastville.

I sailed here because the wind was heavy SE and I found a nice calm spot west of the Eastern Shore, but with my luck during the night, the wind rotated to the SW so I had bay waves knocking my boat around much of the night and got little sleep

So when I got up I carefully fixed coffee with my propane hot plate while the boat still pounded into the waves, but a least now the waves were head on and not on the beam.

After I got straight, I raised sail and sailed off my anchorage barely missing running aground as the wind was pushing me toward shore. Depth finder showed 1' under the keel as I made the turn.

So now I'm headed just North of west (270) since my Bristol simply will not point. It's around 8 am or so.

A mile or so off after I get the autopilot hooked up and things get somewhat normal (decks are slippery etc) I get to look around and spot a sail. (blue hull/ maroon bottom seen when he got closer) His heading is different than most boats I see coming down the bay. (I didn't know there was a race happening!) He is headed to the spot where I was anchored which was maybe 200-300 yards off the shore

He carries his tack way too long for a cruiser (which is what I've been trying to learn to be after racing beach cats for 15 years, Florida Gulf Coast, beach cat racing heaven at least it was back in the day)

I can't really tell the boat type yet since he is a ways away so I'm thinking I wonder if I can point with this guy. I have position being west of him with a SW wind. I know he's going fast but...….hey, I'm a racer guy or was

So I see he runs this tack way long, on the tracker for the race it shows he must have picked up some land effect breeze. I didn't know any of this at the time but when he tacked, I'm like. Nope, you can't point with that guy. I thought It might have been an old full keeler trying to get to Harbor Fest.

So now I'm sailing my Bristol (I love her lines) and see another boat with a black jib. He has a good line going as I'm trying to get SE to Kiptopeke where my son is meeting me with tools to repair the outboard. So I sail way west to line up with him then tack and as luck would have it there is a tanker coming up the bay and I'm going to cross too close so I tack back. This over 30 minutes or so.

There are 18 tankers anchored in this area. So after tacking twice to clear two moving tankers, I'm headed SE again but directly at another tanker so I have to sail off the wind a bit to avoid. I was so concerned with the tanker (he was blocking the wind and I didn't want the strong outgoing tide pushing me into him) that I never saw another race boat that crossed maybe 4 boat lengths in front of me. The boat was at least 40' plus.

So long story short (er), The first boat I saw was Tenacious which is a 44' sailboat funded by Congress for the Naval Academy.

https://www.usna.edu/Sailing/lectures/navy44.php

The one with the black jib that I thought I might follow his line may have been S/V Sly which is an XP44.

I'm not sure which boat crossed my bow (I was on starboard btw!) but it could have been Divide by Zero a Frers 45 

Btw, the race started at 1330 On Friday from near Annapolis

Race Tracker.

http://www.bermudaoceanrace.com/

So now my question is do I buy this Pearson 10m (PHRF 141) I found that needs stuff but has good sails for $8-10K or an Ericson 36 (PHRF 108) asking price $22,000 that has everything?

 

 

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Yeah, the AB race.  Good stuff.

Which boat?  The Ericson.

Because going fast is better than going slow.  Plus it is a turn key program.  (They said.)  It'll be easy.  (They said.)

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The problem is the Ericson is in Maryland, Rock Hall and I'm in VA Beach. The Pearson is close by and cheaper (well, cheaper at first) Plus I singlehand sail a lot and the boat will get banged a bit during docking at times. (so older/cheaper may be better in this case)

Also, I'll only race every now and then since I used to race almost every weekend for like 9-10 months a year when in Florida from the mid to late 90's to around 2006.

I'll just be happy with a boat that will perform a bit better than my good old Bristol 27

020.jpg

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I drove to Alabama from the DC area to look at the boat we bought. Sometimes you have to travel a bit to get what you want. The Ericson 36 is one of the few Ron Holland designed Ericsons and is a very good looking boat in my opinion. I think it would be worth the drive to at least look at. 

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1 hour ago, Ajax said:

Get the Ericson. You'll never sail that Pearson to its rating.

In my experience, sailing the Ericson to it's rating will be a bitch too.  I raced on one for a number of years.  Perhaps that's too anecdotal and perhaps they do better elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, thomm124 said:

The problem is the Ericson is in Maryland, Rock Hall and I'm in VA Beach. The Pearson is close by and cheaper (well, cheaper at first) Plus I singlehand sail a lot and the boat will get banged a bit during docking at times. (so older/cheaper may be better in this case)

Also, I'll only race every now and then since I used to race almost every weekend for like 9-10 months a year when in Florida from the mid to late 90's to around 2006.

I'll just be happy with a boat that will perform a bit better than my good old Bristol 27

020.jpg

 

 

Full keel will track much better, for a Singlehander, than a Spin Keel, Fade Rudder boat!

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1 hour ago, thomm124 said:

The problem is the Ericson is in Maryland, Rock Hall and I'm in VA Beach. The Pearson is close by and cheaper (well, cheaper at first) Plus I singlehand sail a lot and the boat will get banged a bit during docking at times. (so older/cheaper may be better in this case)

Also, I'll only race every now and then since I used to race almost every weekend for like 9-10 months a year when in Florida from the mid to late 90's to around 2006.

I'll just be happy with a boat that will perform a bit better than my good old Bristol 27

020.jpg

 

Oh come on, they are both in the Chesapeake Bay. The distance of the Ericson isn't worth quibbling about. I'm sure there are a ton of people here who'd help you get it home.

I singlehand a lot also. My (revised) advice:  Buy the one with the more friendly singlehanding layout...or the one that can be most easily modified to a good, singlehanding layout.  Those Pearson 10m's originally came with a tiller.  Does the one you're interested in have the tiller or has it been modified for a wheel?

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33 minutes ago, Ajax said:

 

Oh come on, they are both in the Chesapeake Bay. The distance of the Ericson isn't worth quibbling about. I'm sure there are a ton of people here who'd help you get it home.

I singlehand a lot also. My (revised) advice:  Buy the one with the more friendly singlehanding layout...or the one that can be most easily modified to a good, singlehanding layout.  Those Pearson 10m's originally came with a tiller.  Does the one you're interested in have the tiller or has it been modified for a wheel?

It has the wheel and a spare/emergency tiller. It will be my first boat with a wheel

 

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1 hour ago, billy backstay said:

 

 

Full keel will track much better, for a Singlehander, than a Spin Keel, Fade Rudder boat!

Yeah, but the Bristol only has a 19.75' waterline whereas the Pearson's waterline is 29'.

I'm thinking the Pearson  will track ok and be pretty stable as well and maybe not be sailing on it's ear all the time like it is now with the Bristol

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1 hour ago, Slick470 said:

I drove to Alabama from the DC area to look at the boat we bought. Sometimes you have to travel a bit to get what you want. The Ericson 36 is one of the few Ron Holland designed Ericsons and is a very good looking boat in my opinion. I think it would be worth the drive to at least look at. 

I traveled 5 miles to find the Bristol and paid $2,000 for it.. The Pearson was at my marina!

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I went from a 1971 Bristol 30 to a C & C 40 for the same reason.    Bristol could not gt out of its own way.  I single-hand all the time...with a properly installed auto-pilot.   For the 4 grand a relatively small distance way go with the better equipped boat.  

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18 minutes ago, sail69 said:

I went from a 1971 Bristol 30 to a C & C 40 for the same reason.    Bristol could not gt out of its own way.  I single-hand all the time...with a properly installed auto-pilot.   For the 4 grand a relatively small distance way go with the better equipped boat.  

Yeah, I have an autopilot for my Bristol. I've had the boat 7 years.

The Pearson come with lots of good sails plus spinnakers but I'll have to buy an autopilot for it. Looks like the Ericson has Main and Jib only. 

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So if you want to be able to point, the Ericson is the boat to go with.  As on IOR design, upwind sailing is it's forte.  Its also 800lbs lighter than the Pearson on the same waterline, and carries more sail area (600 sq ft to 524 sq ft).  Plus the Ericson is beamer, which translates into more room below, as well as a stiffer boat.  It all adds up to why the Ericson rates 33 sec/mile faster than the Pearson...

I agree that racing the Ericson to its rating might be harder to do, but I'm not sure that's a boat issue as much as it is an owners issue.  For $25K you can get a boat that rates in PHRF A in most areas (A2 Annapolis, A in Hampton Roads).  There you are racing against folks who likely have an annual race budget in excess of the price you paid for the boat.  I raced a brand new J/109 (rated 69) in those fleets (A1 in Annapolis, A in Hampton). With all new sails and gear, I managed the occasional podium finish.  Fast forward 6 years, and with largely the same crew, on an old S2 9.1, (rated 135) with a new main, but otherwise used sails in decent condition, I also managed the occasional podium.  The lesson is in the faster fleets, guys spend more, have well prepped boats, with more new gear.  In B fleet, that eases of some, and eases some more in PHRF C. So my bet is part of the reason Grrr and company had trouble sailing to the rating was that the competition was tougher, and chances are, the Ericson wasn't equipped with all the latest and greatest.  Obviously this is a generalization and an assumption, and I could be off base...

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2 hours ago, Crash said:

So if you want to be able to point, the Ericson is the boat to go with.  As on IOR design, upwind sailing is it's forte.  Its also 800lbs lighter than the Pearson on the same waterline, and carries more sail area (600 sq ft to 524 sq ft).  Plus the Ericson is beamer, which translates into more room below, as well as a stiffer boat.  It all adds up to why the Ericson rates 33 sec/mile faster than the Pearson...

I agree that racing the Ericson to its rating might be harder to do, but I'm not sure that's a boat issue as much as it is an owners issue.  For $25K you can get a boat that rates in PHRF A in most areas (A2 Annapolis, A in Hampton Roads).  There you are racing against folks who likely have an annual race budget in excess of the price you paid for the boat.  I raced a brand new J/109 (rated 69) in those fleets (A1 in Annapolis, A in Hampton). With all new sails and gear, I managed the occasional podium finish.  Fast forward 6 years, and with largely the same crew, on an old S2 9.1, (rated 135) with a new main, but otherwise used sails in decent condition, I also managed the occasional podium.  The lesson is in the faster fleets, guys spend more, have well prepped boats, with more new gear.  In B fleet, that eases of some, and eases some more in PHRF C. So my bet is part of the reason Grrr and company had trouble sailing to the rating was that the competition was tougher, and chances are, the Ericson wasn't equipped with all the latest and greatest.  Obviously this is a generalization and an assumption, and I could be off base...

I think I've race maybe 500 races. I'm very proud of this one though where I was able to make the first mark rounding ahead of the fleet which was maybe 10 miles against faster boats. It was a downwind start and I was on a 17' cat with a spinnaker singlehanded. I took a mod hit with an added jib but nailed the start so it worked out

http://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?t=86

I'm buying this boat for a bit more performance than my Bristol, and a bit more room. I think it will be fun to be able to point closer than 60 degrees off the wind again. My beach cats would point close to 30 degrees off......at least the Nacra 6.0 and the F-17 would. The Hobie 16's not so close.

I may race every now and again for fun though, but it's not like a necessity

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2 hours ago, mookiesurfs said:

I like the Ericson. Would the 6.25' draft be an issue where you sail?

Not if I just want to race, but to sail North there are few places I can get into. I can sail into Onancock Creek though all the way to the Wharf.

With this boat though I can probably sail out to Chesapeake Light and have a nice view with the speed it will have without being up all night

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The Ericson would make a really nice distance racer.  Annapolis-Newport, Annapolis-Bermuda, Down-the-Bay, are all races you could do in the Ericson...

There's some good point to point/middle distance racing there on the Southern Bay that'd be fun to do as well...Cape Charles Cup, "Round the Lights Race, and a couple others I can't think of right now...

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20 minutes ago, Crash said:

The Ericson would make a really nice distance racer.  Annapolis-Newport, Annapolis-Bermuda, Down-the-Bay, are all races you could do in the Ericson...

There's some good point to point/middle distance racing there on the Southern Bay that'd be fun to do as well...Cape Charles Cup, "Round the Lights Race, and a couple others I can't think of right now...

Yeah, I may do a few races, but the logistics etc to view repeatedly the Ericson then go and sail down the bay are nearly an impossible thing for me to accomplish. I'll spare you the details. The Pearson is here, affordable and tough

Plus PHRF racing is what it is so with a 29' waterline the Pearson can't be counted out. It comes with newer sails and spinnakers whereas the Ericson has main and jib

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Here's another consideration: The Pearson 10M was equipped with a variety of engines during its production. Which engine does your candidate have?

Atomic-4: Ok...IF it was maintained well.  Westerbeke: Ok.  Farymann:  Can you get parts for this?  Volvo:  run away!  They are reliable but when they do fail, parts prices are exorbitant!

Look, I don't know where PHRF gets that base rating of 141 for the 10M. You're just never going to sail it to that.  I sail a Tartan 33 that weighs 2500lbs. less than your boat and has an SA/D of 18.37 compared to the 10M at 15.67.  The 10M has a total sail area of 524 sq. feet compared to my 531 sq. feet.  My base rating is something like 156.  I don't understand how the 10M owes me time with those numbers.

Forget the racing for a moment.  Even when cruising, you still have to sail up and down the bay. You're either running/reaching or smashing upwind into a chop or ghosting along in light summer airs. You know who's going to deliver all that for you? The Ericson.  The Pearson won't point as well and will get sticky in light air.  The Pearson only carries 40 gallons of water. The Ericson 70. 

I do get that price is a factor and the Pearson isn't a bad boat, the Ericson is just better.  Oh, just for fun here's another E-36 closer to you, for less money. ;)

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/57020

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3 hours ago, Ajax said:

Here's another consideration: The Pearson 10M was equipped with a variety of engines during its production. Which engine does your candidate have?

Atomic-4: Ok...IF it was maintained well.  Westerbeke: Ok.  Farymann:  Can you get parts for this?  Volvo:  run away!  They are reliable but when they do fail, parts prices are exorbitant!

Look, I don't know where PHRF gets that base rating of 141 for the 10M. You're just never going to sail it to that.  I sail a Tartan 33 that weighs 2500lbs. less than your boat and has an SA/D of 18.37 compared to the 10M at 15.67.  The 10M has a total sail area of 524 sq. feet compared to my 531 sq. feet.  My base rating is something like 156.  I don't understand how the 10M owes me time with those numbers.

Forget the racing for a moment.  Even when cruising, you still have to sail up and down the bay. You're either running/reaching or smashing upwind into a chop or ghosting along in light summer airs. You know who's going to deliver all that for you? The Ericson.  The Pearson won't point as well and will get sticky in light air.  The Pearson only carries 40 gallons of water. The Ericson 70. 

I do get that price is a factor and the Pearson isn't a bad boat, the Ericson is just better.  Oh, just for fun here's another E-36 closer to you, for less money. ;)

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/57020

That one looks sold. You see all the writeup is gone which is what many folks do that cannot find the delete ad button there on sailboat listings

Speaking of boats, looky here what I found this AM:

https://norfolk.craigslist.org/boa/d/1967-cal-40/6616445348.html

I just love the old boats but 40'? Geez that's big to maybe use for a daysailor and weekender while I still work

Here's where I got the PHRF. http://www.phrfne.org/page/handicapping/base_handicaps but it's probably due to your keel why the Pearson rates faster. Pearson 10M fin keel is near 6' deep and has a different shape.....

The Pearson has an Atomic 4 which is very, very clean. (there's no gas smell when you pull off the cover) I looked at the boat last Fall. The boat needs quite a few things though like a decent anchor, autopilot, dodger, depth finder (the one on it doesn't work) but I just like the boat.

I'm 60 plus so I should be able to maintain that engine since I had cars back in the day with similar engines.

 

 

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Wow, the Cal40 is legendary but yeah, 40 feet makes a hard daysailor.

Ok, according to PHRF of the Chesapeake, the 10M base handicap is 156 which makes a lot more sense and your point about the keel is well taken.  The 10M is big and roomy and tough. If it ticks your boxes, go for it.  :)

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9 minutes ago, Ajax said:

Wow, the Cal40 is legendary but yeah, 40 feet makes a hard daysailor.

Ok, according to PHRF of the Chesapeake, the 10M base handicap is 156 which makes a lot more sense and your point about the keel is well taken.  The 10M is big and roomy and tough. If it ticks your boxes, go for it.  :)

Those Tartan 33's are pretty boats.

My first four sailboats were as follows: Hobie 16, Hobie 16, Nacra 6.0, Nacra I17R w spinnaker 

 

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My Parents owned a P26, P30, P10M (Tall Mast), P424, they missed the P10M.  I almost bought the one at my club before buying the 36.7, and oh yah, owned the MP30 for over 30 years (that is Mighty Pearson 30).  Send me a PM, and I can turn you on a site for 10Ms.  It was the first boat we really raced, and it had an A4, and pressurized hot and cold water away from the dock.  You can still single hand it, and if you winch the jib in tight, and let the main out a lot, a fisherman's reef will work like a champ for you as she sails at a beam to the wind.

As for racing PHRF in the Chesapeake (which I know a little about) here is how you define it:

Non-Spin - I got a boat

C Fleet - I got a spin

B Fleet - I got instruments

A Fleet - I got a checkbook

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29 minutes ago, Bruce T. Shark said:

My Parents owned a P26, P30, P10M (Tall Mast), P424, they missed the P10M.  I almost bought the one at my club before buying the 36.7, and oh yah, owned the MP30 for over 30 years (that is Mighty Pearson 30).  Send me a PM, and I can turn you on a site for 10Ms.  It was the first boat we really raced, and it had an A4, and pressurized hot and cold water away from the dock.  You can still single hand it, and if you winch the jib in tight, and let the main out a lot, a fisherman's reef will work like a champ for you as she sails at a beam to the wind.

As for racing PHRF in the Chesapeake (which I know a little about) here is how you define it:

Non-Spin - I got a boat

C Fleet - I got a spin

B Fleet - I got instruments

A Fleet - I got a checkbook

Geeze, why didn't you say something sooner?  How does the P10M sail in general? How do you think it would stack up to the Ericson? You're the voice of real experience! :)

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