Herman

VOR Leg 11 Gothenburg to The Hague

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9 minutes ago, Elisa said:

You can hear this a lot, good chance there will be a Kiwi entry. Burling, Tuke and Bannatyne have applied already so it seems. 

They’ll only need two more and they’ll have a team.  Kiwi girl?  

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15 minutes ago, Elisa said:

You can hear this a lot, good chance there will be a Kiwi entry. Burling, Tuke and Bannatyne have applied already so it seems. 

Not next edition 2021 with AC on unless Burling and Tuke go as last minute passengers.

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29 minutes ago, dr_dave said:

Nice article from Stuff today:

New Zealand sailor Stu Bannatyne the unsung hero of the round the world race

 

 

 

Very good. I was pretty embarrassed by our local coverage not bringing Stu's achievements to light, it was all the triple crown which neither Tuke nor Burling seemed that fussed about. 

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12 minutes ago, daan62 said:

In a dutch interview Tienpont said he would like to see national teams... guess cloggies and kiwi's both have a nice pool to pick from...

Actually at one point it was mooted he and Bouwe would join forces for this edition before the Akzo money appeared. 

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What time does the In Port race start tomorrow? I swore I would not watch it, but I probably will.

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Actually at one point it was mooted he and Bouwe would join forces for this edition before the Akzo money appeared. 

they both have their own stile of leadership... wonder if it would meld together... on the other hand, Tienpont also managed to work together with Nicholson...

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18 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Not next edition 2021 with AC on unless Burling and Tuke go as last minute passengers.

Maybe they prefer Vor over AC? If it is a Kiwi entry... and with Burling as skipper? 

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2 minutes ago, Elisa said:

Maybe they prefer Vor over AC? If it is a Kiwi entry... and with Burling as skipper? 

Both already contracted to AC

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On 6/28/2018 at 12:56 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Try two investigations one voluntary, one statutory. How many more do you want?

The Randumb doesn't give a shit about investigations.
He is all about pointing  his smelly fingers in his moms basement, offering absolutely no solutions to anything.
During this whole ordeal, he as provided nothing but disgusting vommit, which is what he feeds on.
So fucking sad.

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11 hours ago, southerncross said:

All the Nic interviews.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/207098

Wow . . . good stuff by Nic. All the interviews had lots of good questions and answers. Especially appreciated Greenhalgh's about the key decision moment being about sailing  the shallows last leg. I had thought MAPF had shut the door on DFRT taking the outside option and forced DFRT to take a hail mary inside. (Still catching up . . .  still Renny's uploads to watch).

A bit surprised how almost everyone was looking forward to doing a VOR again. Guess the race not being about the boat was good for the sailors ;)

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2 hours ago, Hwyl said:

What time does the In Port race start tomorrow? I swore I would not watch it, but I probably will.

1130UTC - 1330 local time.

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3 hours ago, dr_dave said:

Nice article from Stuff today:

New Zealand sailor Stu Bannatyne the unsung hero of the round the world race

Good read indeed. Didn't know he is now the VOR sailor with the most wins (4). Batting .500

Quick! Sign up Conrad (he has NZ roots, can sail IMOCAs. fly drones, and could absolutely (sorry, Niall) blow all other OBRs out of the water). 

Who could resist a team of Stu, Pete, Blair, Conrad, and Sophie (if only she'd change her passport)

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1 hour ago, ModernViking said:

The Randumb doesn't give a shit about investigations.
He is all about pointing  his smelly fingers in his moms basement, offering absolutely no solutions to anything.
During this whole ordeal, he as provided nothing but disgusting vommit, which is what he feeds on.
So fucking sad.

I haven't checked recently, but in 500  posts on Ocean Racing Anarchy, he only had 3 posts with anything approaching content. None since.

I like flagging Junk Mail and seeing it disappear from my Mail inbox. Like when spam ads show up as new threads in the forum, the mods haven't objected to the times I've used the "Report Post" option. Silly satisfaction seeing them gone.

Hmmmm. Wonder if the mods would mind seeing a bunch of posts marked as spam. 

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34 minutes ago, stief said:

Who could resist a team of Stu, Pete, Blair, Conrad, and Sophie (if only she'd change her passport)

She already has two. I think dual nationality is the limit unless you are a Russian gangster.

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4 minutes ago, stief said:

Who could resist a team of Stu, Pete, Blair, Conrad, and Sophie (if only she'd change her passport) 

I don't know, a french team ?  :)


To echo from a old post, finally, the winner is a team that has 7 participants who have done the Solitaire du Figaro : Charles, Pascal, Jérémie, Jack, Justine, Franck and Fabien. No AC or Olympic winners. And two victorious skippers from the last three VOR have also won the Solitaire. Voilà for the anecdote.


On the other hand, for 2021, no worries, the best French sailors will probably not be there but will race around the world crewed on trimarans if all goes well on the 2019 solo race. At that time we'll see if Peter Burling will choose the VOR or prefer to have fun on this new race, a race of pioneers. I tend to think that Gitana 17 coming to say hello to Brunel while it was already recorded that the next VOR wouldn't be done on trimaran wasn't innocent, but it's just my opinion. But on the French part of the website of the VOR, Peter Burling had granted an interview where he didn't miss the opportunity to signify, again, all his interest to sail on trimaran ... perhaps a difficult choice for him ... we'll see

 

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2 hours ago, Ekkki said:

if all goes well on the 2019 solo race.

Which is a big "if".  No matter how you look at the question, there has been essentially zero progress on improving the safety of oceangoing multis. As much as a lot of us would love to see these beasts flying around the planet, the continual monotonous rate of accidents leaves me with little confidence they are ready, or will be in the foreseeable future.

OTOH, for PB to want to have a go on a carefully controlled record breaking run, one can hardly blame him. Most of us would love the chance. But there is a big difference when you can choose your time and weather, and stay within easy range of rescue, versus a RTW race.

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15 hours ago, daan62 said:

not a racing sailor, but he is able to uderstand Bouwe's information...

Not surprising as the king has been sailing his whole life on The Green Dragon, De Groene Draeck. The private ship of his mother. Last year my sail team mate Peter encountered the king with his family on the water. They were anchored, and Peter had an engine failure on his sailboat. The surveillance police motorboat towed him to the harbour.

D857C622-D4C2-4451-A499-1BF4A33DA6D5.jpeg

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^^^^nice pic Herm... though I do love that 3:1 purchase on the mainsheet block..then it all goes to custard.

Has the principality run out of money ??

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6 hours ago, stief said:

Good read indeed. Didn't know he is now the VOR sailor with the most wins (4). Batting .500

Quick! Sign up Conrad (he has NZ roots, can sail IMOCAs. fly drones, and could absolutely (sorry, Niall) blow all other OBRs out of the water). 

Who could resist a team of Stu, Pete, Blair, Conrad, and Sophie (if only she'd change her passport)

Add Daryl Wisling, a Kiwi who has oft expressed his desire to skipper a yacht in a major race. This was his second VOR win. Would have competition from the above for that duty but he's still a helluva sailor, wb crewing on Comanche for S2H. 

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^nice pic Herm... though I do love that 3:1 purchase on the mainsheet block..then it all goes to custard.

Has the principality run out of money ??

We had a row in The Netherlands regarding to maintenance cost for the boat, as it turned out that these were EUR 100K per year for a 15 meter boat. Paid by the government, while the ship is a gift from the public to the former queen of The Netherlands and private as such. The premier seems to have informed our parliament inaccurately regarding these costs. The former queen has now paid herself for additional maintenance up to EUR 300K plus..

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13 hours ago, stief said:

Very interesting interview with Marcel, the architect of the leg win. The inshore route was in the picture 4 days before the start. Pascal asked Marcel to be more outspoken in his advice on the routing, and leave less room for doubts. Marcel also prepared a race performance overview of the fleet in which DFRT was clearly on top and told Charles and Pascal that they should be confident on their achievements. Superbe routing + superbe boat speed = the fastest boat on the planet. QED. 

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VOR is live for the last inport race. Last time the VO65’s are part of the race. RIP. 

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26 minutes ago, Herman said:

VOR is live for the last inport race. Last time the VO65’s are part of the race. RIP. 

We are on the Albatros, waving good-bye to these boats that just won my and so many other hearts.

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6 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

We are on the Albatros, waving good-bye to these boats that just won my and so many other hearts.

Indeed. The best case ever made for OD racing was that thrilling last leg of the VOR. The deal with the IMOCA organisation has been signed, sealing the fate of the VO65's. Details will come out on coming Monday according to the Tips & Shaft article. So the VG in 2020 and the VOR in 2021 with the same boats and adjusted rules. 

I have a bit of a hangover from the bbq last night so have to skip the inport :rolleyes:.

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Live feed from Charles facebook page from the onboard cam

 

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5 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

Which is a big "if".  No matter how you look at the question, there has been essentially zero progress on improving the safety of oceangoing multis. As much as a lot of us would love to see these beasts flying around the planet, the continual monotonous rate of accidents leaves me with little confidence they are ready, or will be in the foreseeable future.

OTOH, for PB to want to have a go on a carefully controlled record breaking run, one can hardly blame him. Most of us would love the chance. But there is a big difference when you can choose your time and weather, and stay within easy range of rescue, versus a RTW race.

Maybe, everyone thought that the first to do VG was crazy. For a long time, foreign sailors didn't have much regard for the French who made this race alone or at least the French perceived it in this way, which can explain the comment of Vincent Riou. The sponsors want this race, they have the boats and want to use them. The sailors want this race and the city of Nice wants it too. With a "ridiculous" plateau of two boats at the start this year, there were more than 40 000 visitors on the village and tens of thousands for the departure, so the will is real. I'm not a sailor, you know better than me the constraints of navigation. But I'm convinced that the sailors will do what it takes to secure these boats, if only for the sponsors, to whom they sold the safety of such boats. Are these boats safer when crewed? In any case, we will be fixed quickly anyway.

For PB, he never said he wanted to make a record, he would like to sail on these boats. And
it would be surprising given his profile that race against other boats is a problem, on the contrary. But after all he's young, nothing prevents him from doing both. In fact the problem of a departure from Nice is that they could not validate a record as part of a Jules Verne Trophy.

On this I will also watch the last VO65's parade, it was a beautiful edition. I have followed the race on this forum and it was the first time I looked at an entire VOR and I'm happy to have known this formula before its end. It was long but the script was remarkably written with suspense until the end.

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Does anyone else think that Mapfre did not sail their hardest?

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Special congrats to TTOP for consistently keeping the races interesting. The social campaign too got more attention here than the racing.

Peter Rusch did a nice job summing up today

Quote

Turn the Tide on Plastic win sixth place overall with final In-Port Race comeback

The final race in the 2017-18 edition of the Volvo Ocean Race would prove decisive, with Turn the Tide on Plastic moving off the bottom of the leaderboard...

June 30, 2018 12:42 UTC

Written by Peter Rusch

It took until the final In-Port Race, but Dee Caffari’s Turn the Tide on Plastic moved off the bottom of the race leaderboard on Saturday, after securing sixth place in the Volvo Ocean Race.

The day started with SHK/Scallywag and Turn the Tide on Plastic with equal points on the overall race leaderboard. The tie-break mechanism is the finishing position in the In-Port Race Series and there, David Witt’s Scallywags held the advantage by a three-point margin.

But if Caffari could level the score or get ahead on the In-Port Series leaderboard, then her team would lift themselves into a sixth place finish overall by winning the tie-break.

A lot of things would need to go right for Caffari, and incredibly, it all came to pass.

It didn’t look good early when Turn the Tide on Plastic was penalised for not keeping clear of team AkzoNobel on a close cross. But at the next mark rounding, Scallywag hooked onto the mark, and was stopped while the rest of the fleet sailed past.

Eventually they freed themselves from the mark, but by then they were well behind and running out of time to catch up.

The last place result for Scallywag, combined with a hard-fought fourth place finish for Turn the Tide on Plastic, means Dee Caffari’s team sit in sixth place for the first time in the race.

“We had a good race, we even took a penalty today. But we had very good boat speed, made some good calls, and thankfully there were a couple of boats between us and Scallywag,” an overjoyed Caffari said.

“It’s the best way to finish the campaign for us. We’ll all go away knowing we made some good finishes and and were able to come back. People didn’t know if we could do it, but we have, and it’s just rounded it all off to finish like this.”

That wasn’t the only scoreboard move on Saturday. Hometown hero Bouwe Bekking’s Team Brunel had a perfect start and led the race from beginning to end.

That win, combined with a third place finish on Saturday by team AkzoNobel, means the two Dutch skippers finished tied for third in the In-Port Race Series, with Team Brunel taking the tie-break for the final podium spot by virtue of a better finishing position in the final race.

“We are really happy of course, not just for ourselves but also for the Dutch public. To have us winning and team AkzoNoble come in third you can’t ask for much more than that,” Bekking said.

“It’s nice to finish racing here where I started my career sailing offshore. Very happy to finish it this way, and thankful for all the support here.”

For Bekking, the race victory puts a stamp on a career that has included eight editions of the Volvo Ocean Race. It was a fantastic day for the Dutch sailing hero to take a win.

The Brunel In-Port Race marks the last competition in this edition of the Volvo Ocean Race.

Announcements concerning the next race can be expected shortly.

Volvo Ocean Race In-Port Race Series Leaderboard - Final
1. MAPFRE – 64 points
2. Dongfeng Race Team – 56 points
3. Team Brunel – 50 points
4. team AkzoNobel – 50 points
5. Vestas 11th Hour Racing – 35 points
6. Turn the Tide on Plastic – 25 points
7. Sun Hung Kai / Scallywag – 25 points

Volvo Ocean Race Overall Points Leaderboard - Final
1. Dongfeng Race Team – 73 points 
2. MAPFRE – 70 points 
3. Team Brunel – 69 points 
4. team AkzoNobel – 59 points 
5. Vestas 11th Hour Racing – 39 points 
6. Turn the Tide on Plastic – 32 points *
7. SHK / Scallywag – 32 points *

* Should there be a tie on the Overall Race Leaderboard at the end of the offshore legs, the In-Port Race Series standings will be used to break the tie.
** Should there be a tie on the In-Port Race Series leaderboard, the tie will be broken in favour of the team with the better result in the final race.

https://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/12049_Turn-the-Tide-on-Plastic-win-sixth-place-overall-with-final-In-Port-Race-comeback.html

Now, only 48/93 of Renny's vids and 6 pages of leg thread posts to ketchup . . . 

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4 hours ago, Herman said:

Last time the VO65’s are part of the race. RIP. 

That might be premature Herm. Not a lot of ching ching sounds coming from the RO tent about 2021 notwithstanding that the IMOCA deal was signed yesterday.

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30 minutes ago, stief said:

Special congrats to TTOP for consistently keeping the races interesting. 

Certainly kept Vestas on their toes to the extent Charlie didn't have to show up for 2 legs plus start but not finish 2, but still be ahead of the two at the bottom who started all legs and only one DNF between them.

While the top end was enthralling points wise, who ever came up with the scoring formula allowing that outcome for the tail ender's.. they should find a high bridge and try flying.

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14 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Who ever came up with scoring they should find a high bridge and try flying.

Speaking of flying, the scoring worked to reward the flyers and break up peloton racing. That's what allowed VS11 and SHKS (and others) to keep their standings in the overall: it rewarded them for their podiums, and encouraged the risk of buffalo moves.

Next NOR doubtless will deal better with DNFs and RETs. That scoring has been a failure, but was a good attempt to allow teams like Vestas Wind last time  to stay in the race. 

More like bungee jumping off a bridge ;) 

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For those who missed  much of it . . . 

 

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So MAPF stayed out of the way for the start and didn't interfere with the boats that had skin in the race. Not trying as hard as we know they can, but good sportsmanship/ strategy. "MAPF just Pottering around in 7th", haha.

Ryan Fisher as special guest on SHKS! Well done.

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7 hours ago, Herman said:

Not surprising as the king has been sailing his whole life on The Green Dragon, De Groene Draeck. The private ship of his mother. Last year my sail team mate Peter encountered the king with his family on the water. They were anchored, and Peter had an engine failure on his sailboat. The surveillance police motorboat towed him to the harbour.

D857C622-D4C2-4451-A499-1BF4A33DA6D5.jpeg

he had sailing lessons in folkboat when he was young at the KNZ&RV.

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7 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

^^^^nice pic Herm... though I do love that 3:1 purchase on the mainsheet block..then it all goes to custard.

Has the principality run out of money ??

original setup on that kind of boats... (lemsteraak)

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So many legs and finally what we all have been waiting for....

 

 

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19 minutes ago, stief said:

Next NOR doubtless will deal better with DNFs and RETs. That scoring has been a failure, but was a good attempt to allow teams like Vestas Wind last time  to stay in the race. 

It is never going to be perfect. This race really underlined the problems that happen when you hit the edge cases. 

Part of the problem is that the teams will race to the rules as they stand. With no real penalty for not completing a leg, once you are DFL, there is incentive to just throw the leg and get on with the next. V11: the rules pushed them from many angles.

The HK accident became their choice to retire. Sure, if they had somehow managed to limp the boat across the line to claim a place - whilst there was a dead fisherman in a morgue somewhere - we would have pilloried them. But they could have. I don't think anyone thinks they did the wrong thing by retiring. Not starting the HK-AKL leg was just plain ridiculous. And it wasn't all their fault. Arguably it was one of the failings of the OD rule. If this had been on VO70's they would have patched the hole in a week and sailed the leg. But the VO65 class rule and the boatyard control the repair, and they dictated that the repair could not be effected in HK. So there went another leg. Finally motoring from Port Stanley. Nuts. But there was no incentive to do anything but. Hard to know why they lost the mast. But given some of the other problems with the masts on the same leg, it isn't a sure thing it was the crew's fault. Another loose spreader as seen on TToP at almost the same spot would have done it.  But the core point is that there was no disincentive to just throwing the leg and motoring. Not competing in or finishing a leg should not rank you as effectively finishing right behind boats that did complete the leg. 

OTOH, you need to avoid the situation where a single bit of bad luck wipes you out of contention. Scoring needs to allow you to redeem your failures. The scoring system used is not good at this, and clearly not good at discouraging DNF, DNS, RET. (It is absurd that any problem that sends you to the back of the fleet, even if you finish, has a points penalty that depends upon the number of entrants in the race. Fine if every boat is an equal contender for the prize, but that is rarely the case. Your points penalty, and who wins, the regatta may depend simply upon how many back markers turn up.)

Last year I was wittering on about a Condorcet system. I might revive the idea and have a more concerted play with how it might work. But in its raw form it won't address the problem of leg completion. That is a balancing act, and you will never get it perfect. 

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:lol:

 

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2 minutes ago, Francis Vaughan said:

It is never going to be perfect

So true, but the point is we watch year after year to see how the NOR can evolve, as they attempt to reach for perfection, just like the sailors, the architects, the . . . .

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15 minutes ago, Chasm said:

So many legs and finally what we all have been waiting for...

Fine comic relief. . . . we (wife and son)  laughed ourselves silly watching.

Thought back in Melbourne that Opti racing would be better than M32's for in-port gimmickry. 

 

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So, so happy for TTOP, Dee and her puppies! 

 

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IVs, prize giving etc.:

Volvo Ocean Race 2017-18: VNR 30 June, The Hague In-Port Race
Volvo Ocean Race 2017-18: VNR 30 June, Prize Giving ceremony, The Hague In-Port Race and additional prizes
Volvo Ocean Race 2017-18: VNR 30 June, IV in Italian, Francesca Clapcich, Turn the Tide on Plastic
Volvo Ocean Race 2017-18: VNR 30 June in Swedish with Martin Strömberg of Turn the Tide on Plastic
 

 

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1 hour ago, stief said:

Fine comic relief. . . . we (wife and son)  laughed ourselves silly watching.

Thought back in Melbourne that Opti racing would be better than M32's for in-port gimmickry. 

 

They should really do the in-ports in the traditional craft for the venue:

  • Newport : 12m
  • Cardiff : Coracles
  • Hague : Lee-board barges
  • Hong Kong : Junks
  • Melbourne : 18 foot skiffs

Please fill in the gaps.

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44 minutes ago, spennig said:

They should really do the in-ports in the traditional craft for the venue:

  • Newport : 12m
  • Cardiff : Coracles
  • Hague : Lee-board barges
  • Hong Kong : Junks
  • Melbourne : 18 foot skiffs

Please fill in the gaps.

A refreshing idea VOR, please feel free to steal this idea!

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57 minutes ago, spennig said:

They should really do the in-ports in the traditional craft for the venue:

  • Newport : 12m
  • Cardiff : Coracles
  • Hague : Lee-board barges
  • Hong Kong : Junks
  • Melbourne : 18 foot skiffs

Please fill in the gaps.

  • Abu Dhabi: The Dhow racing was pretty good 2 editions ago. Can't recall quickly about 2014

 

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20 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

Haha, if it was the Norwegian king he’d be teasing witty about not winning, and they all would be drunk. Our king is the best. And a world champion in sailing ;) 

No doubt - I have shared some beverages with HM Harald on and off the water and he certainly is no stiff....................even though he is getting up there in age now

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3 hours ago, Elisa said:

:lol:

 

Lucky bounce off the pool bottom there guys. Amazing set up on the beach.

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Paintwagon, I’ve not seen a thing or word from Nicho.... Was this his last round? How about the others on AkzoNobel?

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I like how Chinese the Chinese team were.

The 'Chineseness' of the Chinese team is a metaphor for "billboardness" of the entire event.

Hire a billboard, hire someone to drive it, crank the handle and count clicks.

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7 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

But in its raw form it won't address the problem of leg completion. That is a balancing act, and you will never get it perfect. 

The concept of dropping a leg but punishing DNS and DNF's would go a long way towards producing equity.

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6 hours ago, spennig said:

Melbourne : 18 foot skiffs

Skiffs are more Sydney.

Victorian Couta boats date back to 19th century chasing barracouta out of Port Phillip Bay in Bass Strait. Once loaded they raced back as first in got the best prices. Were still operating in the 60's to feed Melbourne with fish. Started racing after WWII and with large fleets today many that are works of art.

images (62).jpeg

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Witty with comments at the end about the overall race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=145&v=_0Lj2mtpMEE

Thank for that. He may have been dreaming right to the end, but his final words were catchy:

Quote

 you know this has been an amazing, mental, and emotional roller coaster, this race. And I think I'm glad. Twenty miles to go to finish 57,000 miles, 24 miles of,  47,000, okay,  not one thing has changed.  So as critical as I think I've been of the boats and this and that, which I still stand by, I just will say, this is the most amazing around the world race I've ever seen, for a whole bunch of different reasons

He may criticize the race, but I suspect he'd defend the race from criticism by any outsider. 

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17 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

That might be premature Herm. Not a lot of ching ching sounds coming from the RO tent about 2021 notwithstanding that the IMOCA deal was signed yesterday.

I was actually alternately * (see comment to Stief's post  2 below)sad watching this race (and for the remainder of the day), given the announcement in Tip and Shaft though the lousy translation made it confusing; and await with dread the crew announcement; that it may be the last time for these OD boats, for such a close an exciting race, interesting and entertaining crews, fabulous videos, just to mention a few, oh and the communications on the threads on ORA on SA about this race and all the legs and other issues related to it. 

15 hours ago, stief said:

Yeah, it caught my attention.  I think Richard Mason laughed. 

15 hours ago, stief said:

Fine comic relief. . . . we (wife and son)  laughed ourselves silly watching.

Thought back in Melbourne that Opti racing would be better than M32's for in-port gimmickry. 

 

*and rolling my eyes. What a silly inport race. DF actually trying hard to win. Bouwe putting on a good show for his fans and The King. Broadcasters acting as if there was only one "Dutch" boat in the race instead of 2 and though there really wren't more than a few Dutch crew (and one Chinese on the so-called Chinese boat); Dee's kids getting a penalty; Witty snagging the buoy line a la Dongfeng in, where Ghangzhou? I don't know what happened to Vestas but perhaps the thing I will miss the least about this  edition of the race (and I will miss a lot) is hearing Charlie give one more offing canned line about their mission, blah blah blah. I actually turned my laptop off before SHKS crossed the finish line because I was sad, and tired of the leg. And went fishing. Just got back,  learned Argentina and Portugal are out of the World Cup, got caught up on the posts, and, it's midnight, still light out.  

Witty letting Ryan Fisher drive was a class act. I got teary eyed. 

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1 hour ago, Elisa said:

Got teary eyed watching this. Also had to chuckle again at the pictures of Simeon in the video: jaw even more pronounced when he had such long hair. Hans beautiful daughters. SiFi, Luke, etc. Quite a moving and happy event. Brendlyn so pleased! Thanks, Elisa. 

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8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Akzo's we did it vid.

 

The teams are really upping the quality of their video productions! I think the OBR pic of  the AZKO non-plussed temp navigator with the bird in his hair may be my favorite "people"one of the entire race, and loved the boys Nico and Brad and their chats about their week. Clever. 

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22 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

Got teary eyed watching this. Also had to chuckle again at the pictures of Simeon in the video: jaw even more pronounced when he had such long hair. Hans beautiful daughters. SiFi, Luke, etc. Quite a moving and happy event. Brendlyn so pleased! Thanks, Elisa. 

Not sure about that.  Smells a bit of exploiting the dead guy to me.

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16 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The concept of dropping a leg but punishing DNS and DNF's would go a long way towards producing equity.

It does. But it only works when you have the usual regatta reverse points scheme. That doesn't lend itself to bonus points quite so well, but could be made to do so.  Going this route may be the best answer to balancing the problems.  No matter what one comes up with there will be edge cases where things go awry, but trying to get a more clearly equitable scoring in place is worth doing. Something with a non-linear points allocation is still worth keeping - encouraging winning over just sailing consistently helps.  

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22 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Yes, there were a couple of people visiting today...

Exactly, and quite a crowd and a great atmosphere at the pricegiving!

IMG_20180701_202038_478.thumb.jpg.e1bbb1c9f56cc4428ea1e22d1539ecdf.jpg

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Crews were waiting backstage for their turn, probably their last commitment. Think I recognize those legs...

IMG_20180701_214733_656.thumb.jpg.a2ea521108eef343669c0be8b9b1ae43.jpg

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^^ Those legs are last in the cue here, but luckily didn’t came last in the Volvo Ocean Race! :lol:

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Wiitty & Wife joined the crowd after coming on stage, not sure for what price. He seemed a bit subdued, possibly due to lack of alcohol, unlike me, umm...

IMG_20180701_211640_391.thumb.jpg.4df8b770db356694e2281cb997770b95.jpg

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To all the fuckwits that are trying to deny the Chinese success.

25% of the overall team were Chinese Also it is easy for countries with generations of sailors to have a  "national team". Nobody calls Brunel anything other than Dutch yet the sailing squad breakdown was NED 2; GBR 2; AUS 4; GER 1; NZL 1; ITA 1; USA 2; DEN 1; ARG 2; FRA 1

The  closest to a "national team" was Scallywag, they had 7 Aussies in the squad and were sailing for Hong Kong?

It's not the Olympics - suck it up!

Shanghai Sailor

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On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 11:42 PM, Francis Vaughan said:

. And it wasn't all their fault.

You know something the redress committee didn't Francis?

Read the Rule (62), it clearly states through NO  fault of their own.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Exactly, and quite a crowd and a great atmosphere at the pricegiving!

IMG_20180701_202038_478.thumb.jpg.e1bbb1c9f56cc4428ea1e22d1539ecdf.jpg

Largest crowd ever!  Bigger than Obama's!

Still think using Hans in that way was borderline bad taste.

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24 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

To all the fuckwits that are trying to deny the Chinese success.

25% of the overall team were Chinese Also it is easy for countries with generations of sailors to have a  "national team". Nobody calls Brunel anything other than Dutch yet the sailing squad breakdown was NED 2; GBR 2; AUS 4; GER 1; NZL 1; ITA 1; USA 2; DEN 1; ARG 2; FRA 1

The  closest to a "national team" was Scallywag, they had 7 Aussies in the squad and were sailing for Hong Kong?

It's not the Olympics - suck it up!

Shanghai Sailor

You just reinforced my point sunshine!

Chinese team not Chinese and the Dutch team not Dutch and so on.  It's a facade after all.  Why pretend?

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22 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

To all the fuckwits that are trying to deny the Chinese success.

You are ok Shang ? Didn't see you on the Sailors Terrace, you are a Sailor aren't you ?

And I agree, this guy has had a Chinese make over, so that makes it 50%, right ?

IMG_20180701_225000_412.thumb.jpg.4fa5a663d847c9f02fcf940e50e0da57.jpg

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

To all the fuckwits that are trying to deny the Chinese success.

In order to deny a Chinese success, first there has to be a Chinese success to deny!!!

image.png.94ef6c50db10287977322d5ef66ea957.png

 

 

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Vestas is an american-danish team, with 3 Americans and no American woman. And only one Danish, a woman. One american woman sailed with TTOP. So 4 Americans and 1/2 American boat... no British, Australian or New Zealand boat. They should have been left these 3 nationalities on the docks while they represent 2/3 of the participants ? Don't make the race then? A lot of involvement on this forum to give his point of view on the race but for what actions for this race concretely? And where is it written that it's a competition of nations ?


Moreover it's a curious way to denying the right to other countries to participate if they don't have the necessary number of sailor to form a team. There aren't so many countries that can field a competitive team of 7-9 sailors except the countries already established in ocean racing. Or what would be true for women wouldn't be true for nations?

In any case, thank you for allowing France to be the country that can transmit its expertise to chinese sailors. This's the kind of detail that creates links
and a culture that young chinese sailors will in turn transmit.
 

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4 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

To all the fuckwits that are trying to deny the Chinese success....

It's not the Olympics - suck it up!

 

2 hours ago, random said:

In order to deny a Chinese success, first there has to be a Chinese success to deny!!!

The concept of national teams founded on team participants being of that nationality disappeared in professional sports years ago. 

It gets further complicated when sponsors and key members like skipper may not even be aligned with that nationality. Sailing is no different and where there are some celebrated examples in this race.

CAMPER with Emirates Team NZ in 2011/12 edition was skippered by an Australian (Nico) and the main sponsor a Spanish footware company. The audience had no problem with this team carrying the NZ flag for them.

Therefore whether teams have a national identity or not should be left to the audience to decide and not via some arbitrary crew nationality ratio. To suggest Dongfeng was not treated by the audience as a Chinese Team and particularly the one that counts, the Chinese themselves, is total nonsence. 

The most celebrated case of not having the audience decide the authenticity of nationality and then it all going pear shaped was in the 93/94 Edition. There were rumblings in Spain when Fortuna, sponsored by the government owned tobacco monopoly Tabacalera funded the Englishman Lawrie Smith. When Fortuna lost its mizzen mast 900 mile into the first leg, the plan of continuing, and shipping a new mizzen to Cape Town evaporated when Tabacalera ordered Smith out of the race.

The reason being the Spanish press were not fully supportive of the appointment of Smith with this questionable sloop to ketch frankenboat in the first place and once the chance of winning dissapeared, Tabacalera had no option but to pull the plug with no public support to continuing. To continue may have even extended to negatively impacting upon the government.

Teams that do have some form of national identity like Camper, Brunel and Dongfeng etc may in fact become very important for this races future. To suggest that emanates from crew nationality numbers is poppycock.

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4 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

 

On 7/1/2018 at 1:12 AM, Francis Vaughan said:

. And it wasn't all their fault.

You know something the redress committee didn't Francis

 

I wasn't referring to the collision. I was referring to their inability to start the HK to AKL leg. That was not all their fault. If they had been allowed to perform a repair in HK they could have started the next leg. But the class rule forbade any repair that didn't bring the boat back to as built. So they had to wait for Persico to fabricate the section and have it fitted to Boatyrad and class association approved specification in NZ. They could reasonably have sailed on an overbuilt overweight repair and had the Persico built section fitted once they arrived. None of this has anything to do with their strange request for redress for the prior leg. 

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53 minutes ago, Francis Vaughan said:

. I was referring to their inability to start the HK to AKL leg. 

Everyone forgets about Leg 5, Hong Kong - Guangzhou. Maybe a case of choosing stopovers that are easier to pronounce and spell in the future?

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

 

The concept of national teams founded on team participants being of that nationality disappeared in professional sports years ago. 

It gets further complicated when sponsors and key members like skipper may not even be aligned with that nationality. Sailing is no different and where there are some celebrated examples in this race.

CAMPER with Emirates Team NZ in 2011/12 edition was skippered by an Australian (Nico) and the main sponsor a Spanish footware company. The audience had no problem with this team carrying the NZ flag for them.

Therefore whether teams have a national identity or not should be left to the audience to decide and not via some arbitrary crew nationality ratio. To suggest Dongfeng was not treated by the audience as a Chinese Team and particularly the one that counts, the Chinese themselves, is total nonsence. 

The most celebrated case of not having the audience decide the authenticity of nationality and then it all going pear shaped was in the 93/94 Edition. There were rumblings in Spain when Fortuna, sponsored by the government owned tobacco monopoly Tabacalera funded the Englishman Lawrie Smith. When Fortuna lost its mizzen mast 900 mile into the first leg, the plan of continuing, and shipping a new mizzen to Cape Town evaporated when Tabacalera ordered Smith out of the race.

The reason being the Spanish press were not fully supportive of the appointment of Smith with this questionable sloop to ketch frankenboat in the first place and once the chance of winning dissapeared, Tabacalera had no option but to pull the plug with no public support to continuing. To continue may have even extended to negatively impacting upon the government.

Teams that do have some form of national identity like Camper, Brunel and Dongfeng etc may in fact become very important for this races future. To suggest that emanates from crew nationality numbers is poppycock.

That must have hurt Jack!  Having to be polite!

Blah blah more blah and stuff ... smokescreen for floating billboards.

My Apple computer is more Chinese that the winning team.

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52 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Everyone forgets about Leg 5, Hong Kong - Guangzhou. Maybe a case of choosing stopovers that are easier to pronounce and spell in the future?

Ach! Too true. I never regarded it as a leg. Just a split stopover. No matter what numbering they used. 

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

 

tlu

The concept of national teams founded on team participants being of that nationality disappeared in professional sports years ago. 

It gets further complicated when sponsors and key members like skipper may not even be aligned with that nationality. Sailing is no different and where there are some celebrated examples in this race.

CAMPER with Emirates Team NZ in 2011/12 edition was skippered by an Australian (Nico) and the main sponsor a Spanish footware company. The audience had no problem with this team carrying the NZ flag for them.

Therefore whether teams have a national identity or not should be left to the audience to decide and not via some arbitrary crew nationality ratio. To suggest Dongfeng was not treated by the audience as a Chinese Team and particularly the one that counts, the Chinese themselves, is total nonsence. 

The most celebrated case of not having the audience decide the authenticity of nationality and then it all going pear shaped was in the 93/94 Edition. There were rumblings in Spain when Fortuna, sponsored by the government owned tobacco monopoly Tabacalera funded the Englishman Lawrie Smith. When Fortuna lost its mizzen mast 900 mile into the first leg, the plan of continuing, and shipping a new mizzen to Cape Town evaporated when Tabacalera ordered Smith out of the race.

The reason being the Spanish press were not fully supportive of the appointment of Smith with this questionable sloop to ketch frankenboat in the first place and once the chance of winning dissapeared, Tabacalera had no option but to pull the plug with no public support to continuing. To continue may have even extended to negatively impacting upon the government.

Teams that do have some form of national identity like Camper, Brunel and Dongfeng etc may in fact become very important for this races future. To suggest that emanates from crew nationality numbers is poppycock.

Exactly Jack!

Only fault with your post is you quoted the person who makes a slug appear intelligent although I agree it is sometimes hard to not react in exactly the same way it is hard not to swat a mosquito that lands on your arm.

SS

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All Apple products are more Chinese than anything else

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If I am the "fuckwit" or "slug" Shang references, I think that's a bit harsh. For one thing, I have been a diehard Dongfeng Race Team fan since its inception as followers of this forum know. I was and am emotionally invested in its crew. I was and am ecstatic it won the race. I think it is great for Chinese sailing and for China. My point simply was that, with regard to DFRT, as well as all of the other teams in this edition of the VOR except Mapre, the teams' crew composition did not reflect the nationality with which the team was identified by the VOR, media, etc. throughout the race. Rather, the espoused nationality reflected the team's name/sponsor. Does this matter? Maybe not. It is misleading. But, as Jack more or less says, who cares? If its fans want to think of Team Brunel or Azko Nobel as Dutch teams, fine. I certainly recognize that there were not enough highly qualified Chinese offshore sailors to comprise a competitive VOR team. Sponsors were clearly be allowed at the start of this and every other edition of the VOR to staff a team with whomever it wants (other under 30 rule, and female member rule this edition) from whatever country it wants; there was no "nationality" requirement like there is in the Olympics (though even that is somewhat of a sham), as Shang points out, or in the upcoming AC.  Nationality rules does amp up excitement: the World Cup is a good example. Did I think of Abu Dhabi as an Emirates team the last edition?  No. It had one Emirati sailor. It seemed like Team Ian Walker, frankly. Did it matter? No. 

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29 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

or in the upcoming AC.  Nationality rules does amp up excitement: 

Nationality rules in the AC are not required, as since it's inception has been a nation v nation contest. Nationality rules in the AC have always been set by the defender to secure any natural advantage they might have and nothing more. America did it with design and equipment and ironicaly left an achilles heel that Australia exposed in 83. NZ are doing it now with a crew quota.

A crew nationality quota for this race would kill it off faster than you could blink. Let it happen naturally incl satisfying sponsor aspirations.

 

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28 minutes ago, despacio avenue said:

If I am the "fuckwit" or "slug" Shang references, I think that's a bit harsh. 

Think there was only one in his sights there.

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