Shootist Jeff

Tour de France - 2018

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Sky releasing pretty detailed info on Diet and "fuel" for Froome in Giro. I think its a good step to try to show that they are being open about everything. Not sure any of the previous pin cushions released this data to public

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/44694122

 

 

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There is literally nothing in there that answers anything about anything. We need detailed medical documentation, by third parties, that lay out physiological conditions.

 

This article does underscore how insanely amateur cycle racing is. Sky is doing absolutely rudimentary work, and everyone is gaga about how 'complex' it is. Literally every Volvo team is 100x more advanced than this basic stuff they have laid out.

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1 hour ago, vibroman said:

Sky releasing pretty detailed info on Diet and "fuel" for Froome in Giro. I think its a good step to try to show that they are being open about everything. Not sure any of the previous pin cushions released this data to public

 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/44694122

 

 

Carmichael publishes (2000) the first detailed look at how a cancer patient trained up to win the 1999 TDF.   High RPM the secret to climbing with the little goats.

Wow, this was so simple, so remarkable.

image.jpeg.7a7ae48e681f3576eb79f5d919297927.jpeg

We all laughed years later as Landis described Carmichael as LA's "beard".

Bought the book, spun myself in low gears and got slightly better.  Clinics around here pushed heavy weighted cycling trainers to improve abilities.  One shop in particular had LA team bikes (Treks of course) and photos wallpapering the place.  The sheep gathered in the light of Lance to sweat and dream.

All the while,  Lemond kept at Armstrong and his legions - 'the  'spinning' is nothing new, it's all about a new doping regime'.  Tell us LA's weight (never did) and we'll lay it all out what's really going on.

Those were the days....

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Dr Fitch to the rescue.   

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-made-terrible-blunder-says-drug-test-adviser-lxcnbrd8f#

There’s only a couple paragraphs and then you need to sign up for moir.   Sigh...,

Cycling press, as far as I can tell, has yet to publish transcript of Sky Team presser.   Weird. 

I still expect to see Froome on Oprah someday.

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8 hours ago, blunderfull said:

Dr Fitch to the rescue.   

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-made-terrible-blunder-says-drug-test-adviser-lxcnbrd8f#

There’s only a couple paragraphs and then you need to sign up for moir.   Sigh...,

Cycling press, as far as I can tell, has yet to publish transcript of Sky Team presser.   Weird. 

I still expect to see Froome on Oprah someday.

Fitch also said Petacchi should't have been suspended.

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Kind of sad Froome beats the system...

But it is going to be kind of interesting to see how the fans treat Froome at the Tour.

How many Devil Costumed giant syringe carrying guys will we see, chasing CF up a mountain...?

How many CF hating painted messages on the road...?

What will his competitors say about CF, after CF kicks their ass up to Alpe d'Huez...?

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19 hours ago, blunderfull said:

 

Cycling press, as far as I can tell, has yet to publish transcript of Sky Team presser.  

Says it all.

Team Sky manager Dave Brailsford speaks to the press ahead of the Tour de France

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19 hours ago, ErieJ24 said:

Kind of sad Froome beats the system...

But it is going to be kind of interesting to see how the fans treat Froome at the Tour.

How many Devil Costumed giant syringe carrying guys will we see, chasing CF up a mountain...?

How many CF hating painted messages on the road...?

What will his competitors say about CF, after CF kicks their ass up to Alpe d'Huez...?

I think this is my biggest beef with this whole melodrama.  He's either guilty or he's not.  But he's innocent until proven guilty, even the most heinous murderer/rapist gets that right in most civilized countries.  So prove he doped or STFU.  I'm absolutely fine if they blood test him immediately before and immediately after every stage.  But until you have actual proof that he cheated, he should be allowed to race without hassle from the fans or his competitors.  I hope someone in the Sky team car is carrying a big metal softball bat to crack any fan's head that interferes with him on the road.  

If CF is proven to have cheated, then I'll be first in line to put that noose around his neck.  Anything before that point is opinion and supposition.

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The only way they'll convince people about clean riders is when Team sky get appointed as drug testers, they'll know exactly what to look for.

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

  But he's innocent until proven guilty

 

For fucks sake. I didn't know how many times we have to go over this. No, he is not innocent until proven guilty. Sport is not a court of law. Public opinion matters, it's the entire basis of what sport is 

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Froome income 4 million pounds a year. (2016)
Smallest team (present in de tour) budget 2016 a whole year, all riders, 4 million.

He was caught with to much of a substance, but his lawyers got him free;

Source:http://www.wbal.com/article/322756/159/froome-cleared-of-doping-by-uci-ahead-of-tour-de-france

"We have always had total confidence in Chris and his integrity," Team Sky principal Dave Brailsford said. "This is why we decided that it was right for Chris to continue racing, in line with UCI rules, while the process was ongoing."

Brailsford added that since the elevated salbutamol reading from stage 18 of the Vuelta was treated as a "presumed" AAF by the UCI and WADA, it required Team Sky to provide further information.

"There are complex medical and physiological issues which affect the metabolism and excretion of salbutamol," Brailsford said.

"The same individual can exhibit significant variations in test results taken over multiple days while using exactly the same amount of salbutamol.

"This means that the level of salbutamol in a single urine sample, alone, is not a reliable indicator of the amount inhaled," Brailsford said.

"A review of all Chris's 21 test results from the Vuelta revealed that the stage 18 result was within his expected range of variation and therefore consistent with him having taken a permitted dose of salbutamol."

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3 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I think this is my biggest beef with this whole melodrama.  He's either guilty or he's not.  But he's innocent until proven guilty, even the most heinous murderer/rapist gets that right in most civilized countries.  So prove he doped or STFU.  I'm absolutely fine if they blood test him immediately before and immediately after every stage.  But until you have actual proof that he cheated, he should be allowed to race without hassle from the fans or his competitors.  I hope someone in the Sky team car is carrying a big metal softball bat to crack any fan's head that interferes with him on the road.  

If CF is proven to have cheated, then I'll be first in line to put that noose around his neck.  Anything before that point is opinion and supposition.

Lock him up! Lock him up!

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4 hours ago, doghouse said:
6 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

But he's innocent until proven guilty

 

For fucks sake. I didn't know how many times we have to go over this. No, he is not innocent until proven guilty. Sport is not a court of law. Public opinion matters, it's the entire basis of what sport is 

We will have to agree to disagree.  I do not condone, even in sports, the concept of mob rule.  There are rules and there are consequences for breaking the rules.  Prove he broke them and toss him out.  If the UCI can't get their shit together enough to prove he's doping, then that is their problem and the overall sport's problem.  But if we allow the fans to dictate the rules based on their fickle whims, we would have chaos in all sports.  That you condone people literally throwing shit on a rider during an event because in your gut you strongly suspect he's cheating says volumes about your situational ethics.  I'm sorry, I thought we had evolved as a species since the 1692 Salem Witch Trials.  Apparently not, as evadent.  

In any event, I'm going to enjoy the next 3 weeks of cycling and I hope Sky gets a 5+ min lead after the TTT and CF crushes everyone in the mountains - just to twist all of you haterz panties into a knot.

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3 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

We will have to agree to disagree.  I do not condone, even in sports, the concept of mob rule. 

 

It's not an opinion, you can't disagree with a fact. Sports are 100% mob rule. The mob pays the bills. Every football stadium is filled with a mob buying tickets. Every merchandise seller is getting money from the mob. It's de facto what sports are. The mob quits partaking, and the sport, poof, disappears.

 

I haven't advocated throwing poop on anyone by the way. No idea where you came up with that.

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1 minute ago, doghouse said:
9 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

We will have to agree to disagree.  I do not condone, even in sports, the concept of mob rule. 

It's not an opinion, you can't disagree with a fact. Sports are 100% mob rule. The mob pays the bills. Every football stadium is filled with a mob buying tickets. Every merchandise seller is getting money from the mob. It's de facto what sports are. The mob quits partaking, and the sport, poof, disappears.

Fair point.  But I would say that people like LA and CF have been overall net positive for the sport of cycling because otherwise the vast majority of the world would never have heard of the TDF.  It would continue to be the obscure, little known event outside of France.  So like it or not, LA and CF have put the sport on the map and have proven the mob will not quit partaking because of them.  Fans may bitch about the cheating, but they also don't want to see a bunch of riders going slowly up the alps because they have no energy to attack because the sport is so clean.  Just saying.

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40 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Fair point.  But I would say that people like LA and CF have been overall net positive for the sport of cycling because otherwise the vast majority of the world would never have heard of the TDF.  It would continue to be the obscure, little known event outside of France.  So like it or not, LA and CF have put the sport on the map and have proven the mob will not quit partaking because of them.  Fans may bitch about the cheating, but they also don't want to see a bunch of riders going slowly up the alps because they have no energy to attack because the sport is so clean.  Just saying.

The vast majority of the world does not live in the US.  Pretty sure the TDF was a worldwide thing before LA.

Too be fair ugly Americans didn’t embrace it till LA.

Greg leMond says hi!

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37 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Fair point.  But I would say that people like LA and CF have been overall net positive for the sport of cycling because otherwise the vast majority of the world would never have heard of the TDF.  It would continue to be the obscure, little known event outside of France.  So like it or not, LA and CF have put the sport on the map and have proven the mob will not quit partaking because of them.  Fans may bitch about the cheating, but they also don't want to see a bunch of riders going slowly up the alps because they have no energy to attack because the sport is so clean.  Just saying.

I'm not sure where to start here. And don't take this the wrong way Jeff, because I'm not bagging on you whatsoever, but you are about as casual a cycling fan as it gets, somewhere in the neighborhood of the wife who watches the Super Bowl and wants Tom Brady to win because she likes his eyes. Cycling was put on the map by Constante Giradengo, Gino Bartali, Fausto Coppi, Louison Bobet, Tom Simpson, Eddy Merckx, Roger DeVlaeminck and more. Hell, even American cycling was put on the map by Greg Lemond. Lance was popular, but that's about it. Froome is so fucking milquetoast he sure isn't making anyone jump on the cycling train. Wiggo did way more for that.

I mean, I don't know what to say if you think Lance has been a overall positive for cycling. I can't think of anyone who has been a quarter as destructive. Cycling's reputation is so bad I don't see any way it could go lower.

As far as the drug stuff, go read about Coppi, Bartali or Merckx soloing over multiple high mountains for 100' of kilometers. Way more exciting than any EPO era nonsense.

 

I love Lance now that he is an admitted doper and asshole btw. In fact, my Stages hat just showed up as I'm typing this.

20180706_122746.jpg

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46 minutes ago, doghouse said:

\snip/

 

I love Lance now that he is an admitted doper and asshole btw. In fact, my Stages hat just showed up as I'm typing this.

20180706_122746.jpg

Help me out here- what's the cap about?

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7 hours ago, doghouse said:

CoppiBartali or Merckx soloing over multiple high mountains for 100' of kilometers. Way more exciting than any EPO era nonsense.

Not going to look up Coppi and Bartali but Merckx got busted 4 times in 8 years and tossed from the Giro so I fail to understand why he is remains in such a position of honor 

In Modern Times people like george hincapie our the real heart breakers because he started here as a junior and was riding at such a high level in his early teens and just went dark to stay in the game 

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2 minutes ago, tommays said:

Merckx got busted 4 times in 8 years and tossed from the Giro so I fail to understand why he is remains in such a position of honor 

 

Because taking drugs doesn necessarily mean you are bad...

 

Not gonna look up Coppi as in who he is or whether he did drugs? 

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7 hours ago, doghouse said:

I love Lance now that he is an admitted doper and asshole btw. In fact, my Stages hat just showed up as I'm typing this.

20180706_122746.jpg

I didde notte no he adimitted to thisse to.  I am dissapoinetted.                      :)

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Drugs there a cheat period and most of the famous have a dark past 

Then there is Induráin with a bust for Salbutamol that got tossed and his EPO Pioneer Doctor Dr. Francesco Concon

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The widely held view is that today's peloton contains the first riders in the history of the Grand tours to be ridding clean. Not all of them mind you...

Dropping Froomes charges so that he can ride the tour is bullshit. And the French fans are gunna let the lanky cunt know it over the next 3 weeks. Hating LA was easy for them because he was an American. A Pom makes it even more so.

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I think a lot of people including myself would like to see Richie get a well deserved win.

But he and G towed the Sky train all over France for the last several years. If Sky is rotten to the core, then  . . .

It's definitely fucked up that this is always part of the TDF discussion. 

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1 hour ago, Dorado said:

I think a lot of people including myself would like to see Richie get a well deserved win.

But he and G towed the Sky train all over France for the last several years. If Sky is rotten to the core, then  . . .

It's definitely fucked up that this is always part of the TDF discussion. 

Richie and sky, a good example of the incestuous nature of the sport and the competitors. 

You don't think ritchie didnt tell his new doctor about the things the old doctor did? You don't think ritchies new doctor thinks that he is smarter than his old doctor?

 

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Like I said earlier, its blood bags and microdosing. The biological passport works of variations, so you set your baseline early in your career and then maintain it at an elevated level. People use various other substances out of competition as well, but the danger is what happened to Contador. His clenbuterol was found with traces of plasticizer. What does that mean? It means he used clenbuterol when training and then accidentally filled one of his blood bags when it was still in his system. Then during competition he took the blood bag and the clenbuterol showed in the test. Oops.

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Froome crashed with 4.5KM to go.  He's almost back in the peloton.  I wonder if someone pushed him into the grass.

NQ also just flatted two tires just outside of 3km.  Ouch.

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Lol. Froome in a ditch.

 

Lance called Nibali to win this thing. He may be right. His race craft is so much better than the rest of these clowns except Valverde.

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With Thomas chafing to win, if he drops another 5 minutes on Froome in stage 9 we could see some real infighting on Sky.

 

Was bummed to see Bernal crash though, that kid is gonna be a star one day.

 

So Uran, Bardet, Martin, TVG, Nibali, Valverde, Fulgsang, Thomas, Roglic and Landa all made it through. 50 seconds up on Froome, Porte and Yates already. Dumoulin made it too, with the TTT he could actually threaten this year, though after the Giro I'm skeptical. 

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5 hours ago, doghouse said:

 

 

....Dumoulin made it too, with the TTT he could actually threaten this year, though after the Giro I'm skeptical. 

Ummm......

Cool if he does, who thought he had the legs to win Giro in first place?

Uncharted waters for TD.

 

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Winning the Giro is nothing like winning the Tour. 

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26 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Winning the Giro is nothing like winning the Tour. 

Yea, but for TD that was a worthy result. You take what you can.

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True. I am not sure he has a tour win in him but he is a class act. I thought the cheering when Froome crashed was uncalled for. A wry smile however...

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It will be interesting to see if Sky can make up the +51 sec lost time in the TTT on Monday??  I'm betting Niboli and Uran are pretty happy right now with a bit of a buffer but do they have the team to minimize loss in the TTT?  

Also with NQ down a minute to his Teammate Valverde, has the team leadership situation been clarified at all now?  Or is it still too early to tell?  

Really interesting first day, fo sho!

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Nasty crash in the last 1KM,  Ouch.  

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7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I'm betting Niboli and Uran are pretty happy right now with a bit of a buffer but do they have the team to minimize loss in the TTT? 

Uran may be hurt a bit in the TTT by Craddock not being able to help much.  US TV coverage suggested one of Craddock's purposes on the team was to be a strong engine in the TTT.  (I'm rooting for Craddock to hang in there to the finish, but I'm worried he may not be able to stay with his team in the TTT, which could quickly turn into him losing enough time to be eliminated tomorrow...  which happened to Ted King in 2013).

Terrible loss for Astana, and Fuglsang's chances, when Sanchez crashed out today.

Nibali's team seems to be intact.  I have no idea how good they are at TTT, but at least they should all be able to give 100%.

 

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I was bummed to see Sanchez out, he is one of my favorite riders.

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I tend to be fascinated by obscure things like elimination times on each stage and the efforts of a rider like Craddock to stay in the event at all.  So I looked up the finishing time coefficient for the TTT.  You have to be within 30% of the fastest team's time.  Back in 2013, Ted King was something like a minute or two beyond that after crashing a day or two prior and then being unable to stay with his team for the TTT.  There IS an option for the "Commisaires' Committee" to make an exception if the stage's average speed was very high, or if the rider suffered an incident during the stage with particularly unfortunate timing, or if the rider was delayed during the stage by an incident ahead, or by impassability of roads.  I think back in 2013 the rules also allowed the committee to make an exception if the rider showed extraordinary valor in his efforts to finish, or something like that...  That was the basis that US fans thought King should be retained by back in 2013, because he worked hard as hell, on his own, in obvious pain, after losing his team in the TTT.  It may be that they removed that verbiage specifically because that day resulted in them wanting to be more mathematical and less opinion-based.  Or it may be that I'm remembering how the commentators explained it instead of what's written in the actual rules.

Anyway, it looks like the estimates for the fastest team's finish are around 39 minutes.  So if Craddock or anyone else loses their team, which seems possible given how many guys hit the deck in Stage 2, they'd need to finish somewhere around 50.7 minutes to avoid the cut.  If anyone out there is watching with that in mind like me, figure 50 minutes is probably safe and 51 is heavily at risk.

Here are the official rules, BTW...

http://netstorage.lequipe.fr/ASO/cycling_tdf/tdf2018-reglement.pdf

English starts on Page 20, and the finish deadline coefficients start on Page 27.

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2 hours ago, doghouse said:

I was bummed to see Sanchez out, he is one of my favorite riders.

Yes the 8 man team format makes a loss like this even more painfull for them. Sanchez deserves respect - he has a big heart and a big motor.

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12 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

It will be interesting to see if Sky can make up the +51 sec lost time in the TTT on Monday??  I'm betting Niboli and Uran are pretty happy right now with a bit of a buffer but do they have the team to minimize loss in the TTT?  

Also with NQ down a minute to his Teammate Valverde, has the team leadership situation been clarified at all now?  Or is it still too early to tell?  

Really interesting first day, fo sho!

I think Adam Yates will be closer to wearing Yellow than Froome after tomorrow. Mitchelton-Scott are the team to beat in the TTT but BMC are no hacks either. I wonder how Portes announcement effects team unity? Any thoughts?

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BTW...  Renardt Janse van Rensburg had a mild crash in the feed zone today.  Replay showed a Bahrain rider throwing a feed bag down deliberately in the middle of a crowd, next to RJvR just before it.  RJvR had a gear issue when he came up.  (Commentators initially thought it was a Katusha rider, and it was zoomed out, so it was hard to be sure, but I'm pretty sure it was the Bahrain rider behind the Katusha guy).

I mention this for the purpose of asking the people more knowledgeable than me about cycling...  Any chance the Bahrain guy was actually trying to cause a pileup?

I tend to think no...  I think it looked like he was deliberately throwing it down because that was indeed what he was trying to do...  trying to throw it hard to the ground between his bike and his neighor's, safely...  and maybe the strap flipped out accidentally or something.  But the footage made it look like maybe he had bad intent, so I figured I'd ask.  Would someone actually do that?  Especially with the knowledge that in the modern age, it will probably be caught on film?

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There's no way there was malicious intent in this situation. Not saying there are not times there could be, but this isn't one of them.

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More castles and then 5 mins of entertainment tonight. Maybe some wind with a bit of luck to liven things up a bit.

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Don't really follow cycling but visited friends in southern France last summer (they are sailors, their boat was on the hard in Uruguay awaiting their return for a summer in Patagonia) and it happened that the TDF passed within a few hundred metres of their home in a very hilly (low mountains?), rural area. There were messages to fave riders painted on the road. My respect for these guys went way up, the roads were incredibly steep and twisting and I made good use of the performance of an Audi A4, can't imagine cycling through the area. This was not a famous part of the Tour, just a pretty rural area with very low population density.

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1 hour ago, doghouse said:

Goddamn I love Peto Sagan.

The guy is a beast!!!

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22 hours ago, LB 15 said:

More castles and then 5 mins of entertainment tonight. Maybe some wind with a bit of luck to liven things up a bit.

I like the castles. Makes me want to buy a helicopter.

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Comments, comments....the CN peeps speak:

’UCI have reviewed CF lawyers documents and declared him winner of first five stages.’

‘WADA have confirmed CF age claim and he now wears White jersey.’

 

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Could be dicey for the GC guys but, they dropped all the five star sections of pave we see in Roubaix.   This all may look anticlimatic when it’s over.   Matty Hayman said it’s going to be weird having to ride looking over your shoulder for your GC guy, Roubaix is eyes forward and hammer.

 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/the-tour-de-france-goes-to-hell-cobbles-preview/

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Just now, Rushman said:

Porte OUT

Crazyness. Most star crossed rider ever.

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Bardet puncture. Not a good tour for him. Has Dillier to pace at least 

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Thoroughly deserved win for Degenkob. Very emotional post race nterview too. Respect.

Amazing that Landa and Bardet got back to the GC peloton just before the finish too.

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brutal stage.....why don't the have mini moguls in the pitch today for the WC final

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Might be best tour stage I've ever seen. Up there with LeMond TT in 89

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4 hours ago, doghouse said:

So Porte actually didn't break anything. Hmm.

Now they are saying he did. Can't even get their story straight.

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Any thoughts on the motor doping scandal that hit yesterday ?  

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On 7/15/2018 at 3:13 PM, doghouse said:
On 7/15/2018 at 3:12 PM, Rushman said:

Porte OUT

Crazyness. Most star crossed rider ever.

And he didn't even make it to the cobblestones before he crashed out.  1st 10km.  WTF?

Edit to add:  I really like RP, but this might qualify as "pusstralian".  

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1 hour ago, echo said:

Any thoughts on the motor doping scandal that hit yesterday ?  

Lol. No scandal hit yesterday. 

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

And he didn't even make it to the cobblestones before he crashed out.  1st 10km.  WTF?

Edit to add:  I really like RP, but this might qualify as "pusstralian".  

Really, if there’s one guy who ought to start CX and MTB it’s Richie.  Toughen up.  Talk to Cadel for crissakes.

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19 minutes ago, blunderfull said:

Nice read.    Portet a real sufferfest @ 8.7%  ?

Bury me with my bike on Aubisque.  Most beautiful run-up through the valley.

 

It was till they paved it, which sucks. Now I think it's really just altitude.

looks like the Aubisque will be fixed in time hopefully. I have a crazy idea of doing the Circle of Death route in the Luchon to Pau direction one day.

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13 hours ago, blunderfull said:
14 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

And he didn't even make it to the cobblestones before he crashed out.  1st 10km.  WTF?

Edit to add:  I really like RP, but this might qualify as "pusstralian".  

Really, if there’s one guy who ought to start CX and MTB it’s Richie.  Toughen up.  Talk to Cadel for crissakes.

Is it just me or does it seem like the quality of the bike handling in the peloton has dropped significantly in the last 5 years or so?  From my admittedly novice views from the cheap seats, there seems to be far more crashes on what should be fairly benign parts of a stage.  Lot of wheel touching, inattention while feeding, etc causing big pileups in the front/middle of the peloton.  I know that's always happened in the past, but it seems far more frequent now.  Has the experience level of the domestiques gone down?  Are riders racing less throughout the year and therefore not used to being in the large pelotons?  Is fatigue a lot higher at these early stages causing inattention and focus?  

The last one (fatigue) is my guess.  Maybe as the sport has gotten cleaner, they are getting exhausted far earlier.  But it just seems to me the regularity of these kinds of crashes is not normal.  

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I don't think so.

Shit Happens randomly (excepting Richie of course)

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1 hour ago, Dorado said:

I don't think so.

Shit Happens randomly (excepting Richie of course)

I understand shit happens.  I'm just saying that shit seems to be happening with much more frequency than before.  Dunno.  I'd have to go back and look at previous tour historical crashes, abandonment rates and such.  Not sure if those stats exist and I'm to busy (lazy) to go search for it at the moment.  

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Why would you only look at the Tour? There's hundreds of other days of bike racing each year, youd end up with something statistically irrelevant. 

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Maybe we're just seeing more as the TV  coverage is improving. 

Haven't seen anyone go through a barbed wire fence lately. 

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Only desperates need buy the NBC ‘Sports Gold’ app for TDF.    Was trash last year and here I am again doing multiple ‘bot tests’ and related nonsense to login.  

Pure 1990’s tech that doesn’t shake hands well with a busload of phones & browsers out there.

Going from World Cup to TDF to Vuelta.   I should turn phone in at some point and seek counseling.

Shout out to Quick-Step for bringing the heat again.  Swashbuckling bunch of badasses.

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