mad

Brexit, and all it entails

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1 hour ago, mad said:

You guys????................ there are several generations born who had nothing to do with that decision, how long are you going to hold that grudge? (The sins of our fathers..........)  As you said, you recovered decades ago.  Do we really need to start going back in time and apportion blame for things many had nothing to do with.

How is the relationship with the EU and Aus and NZ now?

I don't actually hold a grudge, it's just realpolitik. The UK did what it thought was in its best interests regardless of past associations.

By the same token my sympathy is also quite limited as to your current situation. I frankly regard it as a potential opportunity to regain a market that was closed to us when you entered the Common Market so I see little downside for Australia in your leaving. It's nothing personal, just business, same as when your country did it.

As for our relationship with the EU, it's much as it always has been. The French block us from the agricultural products as much as they can get away with. There's talk of a free trade agreement but it won't be worth having IMO, unless a miracle occurs.

I think you guys are going to get severely reamed just to serve as an example to any other ingrate country that might want to leave.

FKT

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hmm..Between Trump, china and the EU and the UK, I think we're all going to get severely reamed, so holding back on the schadenfreude (Rhododendron?? I love my spellchecher) for a bit might be in order.

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3 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

hmm..Between Trump, china and the EU and the UK, I think we're all going to get severely reamed, so holding back on the schadenfreude (Rhododendron?? I love my spellchecher) for a bit might be in order.

I have a good supply of beer, wine and popcorn. It's all good. As long as I'm back home before the shit hits the fan that is, and Brexit isn't likely to take a real dump this year so I should be OK. Trump - well, who knows? I doubt even he does.

Mining seems to be picking up again so somebody has confidence in manufacturing.

FKT

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Just now, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I have a good supply of beer, wine and popcorn. It's all good. As long as I'm back home before the shit hits the fan that is, and Brexit isn't likely to take a real dump this year so I should be OK. Trump - well, who knows? I doubt even he does.

Mining seems to be picking up again so somebody has confidence in manufacturing.

FKT

And libraries are like koalas..protected.

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Just now, Shortforbob said:

And libraries are like koalas..protected.

No need for librarians though..... we can digitise all the books and put them online. Oh wait, Google already has and now the copyright expiry is at the heat death of the universe or the Second Coming, whichever occurs first.

Actually libraries and the required support staff are one of the things I am unreservedly happy to pay for. Probably the only reason I made it to university considering where I attended high school (and how frequently I didn't bother and went to the library instead).

FKT

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2 more resignations from yesterday.

Quote

Two vice-chairs of the Conservative Party are quitting their posts in protest at Theresa May's Chequers Brexit compromise plan.

Maria Caulfield and Ben Bradley warned the PM her plan would not capitalise on the opportunities of Brexit.

"This policy will be bad for our country and bad for the party," Ms Caulfield said.

and

Quote

Ahead of his first visit to the country as US President on Thursday, Donald Trump said the UK was "somewhat in turmoil" and it was "up to the people" whether Theresa May stays as prime minister.

He also praised Mr Johnson, describing him as a "good friend of mine".

So there's an extra silver lining to Boris being out of the picture for a while.:)

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4 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Who knows? That's the whole problem.

What if the EU says that the UK has to accept freedom of peoples' movement, an 'equitable' share of refugees as assessed by Germany, the Euro instead of the Pound, the Customs Union but by the way, since you left, you get no seats in the EU assemblies and no voting rights or vetoes? Because that seems to be where things are heading. Well, I haven't read anything about the Euro but the rest is kind of there.

Perhaps it's time to gift Northern Ireland to the south bit and then deal with the Channel Tunnel to get hard borders since a lot of the angst seems to be over the Irish border.

The good part of all this is, there can be little downside for Australia and potentially a lot of upside. Kind of entertaining in a way.

FKT

You can fuck right off with that, thank you very much.

B)

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30 minutes ago, Black Sox said:
4 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Who knows? That's the whole problem.

What if the EU says that the UK has to accept freedom of peoples' movement, an 'equitable' share of refugees as assessed by Germany, the Euro instead of the Pound, the Customs Union but by the way, since you left, you get no seats in the EU assemblies and no voting rights or vetoes? Because that seems to be where things are heading. Well, I haven't read anything about the Euro but the rest is kind of there.

Perhaps it's time to gift Northern Ireland to the south bit and then deal with the Channel Tunnel to get hard borders since a lot of the angst seems to be over the Irish border.

The good part of all this is, there can be little downside for Australia and potentially a lot of upside. Kind of entertaining in a way.

FKT

You can fuck right off with that, thank you very much.

B)

We don't need to start that shit again

Image result for protestants protest northern ireland conflict

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5 hours ago, mad said:

We don't need to start that shit again

Image result for protestants protest northern ireland conflict

Agree 100%.

I meant it from a purely economic point of view. There is no way we could afford it.

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On 7/7/2018 at 9:08 AM, Mickey Rat said:

The Helsinki summit is literally a chance to stop a new Cold War, so why do you think that a deal between the US and Russia is such a bad thing and that it will weaken western trade and military alliances? 

Trump is weakening the trade and military alliances all by himself.

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6 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Trump is weakening the trade and military alliances all by himself.

Weakening trade imbalances and getting more money from your so called NATO partners? You are giving him way too much credit. 

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On 7/11/2018 at 6:16 AM, mad said:

We don't need to start that shit again

Image result for protestants protest northern ireland conflict

One of the best editorial cartoons I ever saw was after an IRA atrocity - the pilot announcing to the planes passengers;

"Ladies and gentlemen, we are approaching Ireland - please set your watches back 300 years."

The guy in The Commitments had it right.

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This is outrageous.

Can you imagine the reaction of the USA if the leader of any other country, being hosted in the home of the head of state, gives an interview to a tabloid and openly suggested that his or her host be removed as head of state?

Throw him out on his fat arse.

“If they do a deal like that, we would be dealing with the European Unioninstead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal. If they do that, then their trade deal with the US will probably not be made,” he said.

 

“We have enough difficulty with the European Union. We are cracking down right now on the European Union because they have not treated the United States fairly on trading.”

Trump accused the prime minister of ignoring his advice on Brexit negotiations. “I would have done it much differently. I actually told Theresa May how to do it, but she didn’t agree, she didn’t listen to me. She wanted to go a different route,” he said.

He cast doubt on whether the prime minister was delivering the Brexit that the British people had voted for in 2016. “The deal she is striking is a much ­different deal than the one the people voted on. It was not the deal that was in the referendum. I have just been hearing this over the last three days. I know they have had a lot of resignations. So a lot of people don’t like it.”

Trump, who is due to meet Theresa May for bilateral talks at her Chequers residence on Friday, was heavily critical of the Brexit deal and called into question any future UK-US trade deal. “If they do a deal like that, we would be dealing with the European Union instead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal,” he told the Sun.

Conservative MP Sarah Wollaston said Trump was “determined to insult” May and added that “The divisive, dog-whistle rhetoric in his Sun interview is repulsive. If signing up to the Trump world view is the price of a deal, it’s not worth paying.”

Ben Bradshaw, Labour MP for Exeter, called the courting of Trump by the UK “humiliating”. “Our prime minister is so weak she still rolls out the red carpet for a man who does nothing but insult her. Humiliating,” he wrote.

Darren Jones, Labour MP for Bristol North West, echoed those sentiments, writing: “Well this has gone well then. What a humiliating week for Britain (excluding the valiant efforts of our football team!).”

 
 

 

Former Labour party Ed Miliband tweeted a link to a news story about Trump’s comment, and said: “The theory that if we are nice to Trump he’ll be nice to us doesn’t seem to be going brilliantly ...”

Labour MP Anna Turley questioned whether the US president should now be allowed to meet the Queen during his four-day visit. He is due to take tea with her at Windsor Castle on Friday afternoon.

“Trump is a racist and disrespects our nation. Why does he get to meet our Queen? And those Tories saying we should respect him simply because he is elected president – by that logic shouldn’t he respect our prime minister and London’s mayor?” tweeted the MP for Redcar.

 
 
 
Read more

In the US, Democrat congressman Brendan Boyle took issue with Trump’s comment that he was popular in Britain despite the protests planned around the country. Trump had said in the interview: “I believe that the people in the UK – Scotland, Ireland ... they like me a lot.”

Boyle pointed out to the president that “Ireland is not part of the UK. It’s been an independent country for about 100 years ... Please stop embarrassing us on the international stage.”

The Conservative American commentator Ben Shapiro also objected to Trump’s interview, tweeting that undermining May even “as Labour moves toward power” was “classic Bad Trump”.

In his interview the president criticised London mayor Sadiq Khan, saying he had done “a bad job” on terrorism and that there had been too much immigration in Europe.

Rupa Huq, the Labour MP for Central Ealing and Acton, said: “A dash of Islamophobia lobbed at Sadiq Khan who he blames for terrorism. Awful stuff.”

Stella Creasy, the Labour and Co-operative MP for Walthamstow, condemned what she saw as “Trump’s demonisation of immigration and UK” and wrote: “Time to stop holding his hand and instead start holding the door open for him.”

In 2017 the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, vetoed the idea of Trump speaking inside the chamber, saying Trump was unfit to address MPs, because of parliament’s opposition to to racism and to sexism.

Another Labour MP, Lilian Greenwood, shared a picture of Barack Obama, writing that Brits love a US president “worthy of the title”.

There was little in the way of notable responses from pro-Brexit MPs to Trump’s Sun interview, however Jacob Rees-Mogg, leader of the European Research Group of pro-Brexit Tory MPs, tweeted a link to it without comment.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/13/mps-voice-outrage-at-repulsive-donald-trump-broadside-against-theresa-may

 

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"I know they have had a lot of resignations. So a lot of people don’t like it.”

Coming from Trump.

Priceless.

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Some folks in GB are suggesting that PM May have her own Hugh Grant "Love Actually" moment.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/13/theresa-mays-love-actually-moment-pm-putting-donald-trump-place/

If you are not familiar with the movie it is an enjoyable chick flick in which Hugh Grant plays a newly chosen PM and Billy Bob Thornton plays the US president.  The pres is a bit of a bully (life imitating art?) And Grant catches the pres trying to play a bit of grabass with a young woman who works for the PM.  In a speech later describing the pres' visit, Grant as the PM stands up for GB

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17 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

This is outrageous.

Can you imagine the reaction of the USA if the leader of any other country, being hosted in the home of the head of state, gives an interview to a tabloid and openly suggested that his or her host be removed as head of state?

Throw him out on his fat arse.

“If they do a deal like that, we would be dealing with the European Unioninstead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal. If they do that, then their trade deal with the US will probably not be made,” he said.

 

“We have enough difficulty with the European Union. We are cracking down right now on the European Union because they have not treated the United States fairly on trading.”

Trump accused the prime minister of ignoring his advice on Brexit negotiations. “I would have done it much differently. I actually told Theresa May how to do it, but she didn’t agree, she didn’t listen to me. She wanted to go a different route,” he said.

He cast doubt on whether the prime minister was delivering the Brexit that the British people had voted for in 2016. “The deal she is striking is a much ­different deal than the one the people voted on. It was not the deal that was in the referendum. I have just been hearing this over the last three days. I know they have had a lot of resignations. So a lot of people don’t like it.”

Trump, who is due to meet Theresa May for bilateral talks at her Chequers residence on Friday, was heavily critical of the Brexit deal and called into question any future UK-US trade deal. “If they do a deal like that, we would be dealing with the European Union instead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal,” he told the Sun.

Conservative MP Sarah Wollaston said Trump was “determined to insult” May and added that “The divisive, dog-whistle rhetoric in his Sun interview is repulsive. If signing up to the Trump world view is the price of a deal, it’s not worth paying.”

Ben Bradshaw, Labour MP for Exeter, called the courting of Trump by the UK “humiliating”. “Our prime minister is so weak she still rolls out the red carpet for a man who does nothing but insult her. Humiliating,” he wrote.

Darren Jones, Labour MP for Bristol North West, echoed those sentiments, writing: “Well this has gone well then. What a humiliating week for Britain (excluding the valiant efforts of our football team!).”

 

 

 

Former Labour party Ed Miliband tweeted a link to a news story about Trump’s comment, and said: “The theory that if we are nice to Trump he’ll be nice to us doesn’t seem to be going brilliantly ...”

Labour MP Anna Turley questioned whether the US president should now be allowed to meet the Queen during his four-day visit. He is due to take tea with her at Windsor Castle on Friday afternoon.

“Trump is a racist and disrespects our nation. Why does he get to meet our Queen? And those Tories saying we should respect him simply because he is elected president – by that logic shouldn’t he respect our prime minister and London’s mayor?” tweeted the MP for Redcar.

 
 
 
Read more

In the US, Democrat congressman Brendan Boyle took issue with Trump’s comment that he was popular in Britain despite the protests planned around the country. Trump had said in the interview: “I believe that the people in the UK – Scotland, Ireland ... they like me a lot.”

Boyle pointed out to the president that “Ireland is not part of the UK. It’s been an independent country for about 100 years ... Please stop embarrassing us on the international stage.”

The Conservative American commentator Ben Shapiro also objected to Trump’s interview, tweeting that undermining May even “as Labour moves toward power” was “classic Bad Trump”.

In his interview the president criticised London mayor Sadiq Khan, saying he had done “a bad job” on terrorism and that there had been too much immigration in Europe.

Rupa Huq, the Labour MP for Central Ealing and Acton, said: “A dash of Islamophobia lobbed at Sadiq Khan who he blames for terrorism. Awful stuff.”

Stella Creasy, the Labour and Co-operative MP for Walthamstow, condemned what she saw as “Trump’s demonisation of immigration and UK” and wrote: “Time to stop holding his hand and instead start holding the door open for him.”

In 2017 the Speaker of the House of Commons, John Bercow, vetoed the idea of Trump speaking inside the chamber, saying Trump was unfit to address MPs, because of parliament’s opposition to to racism and to sexism.

Another Labour MP, Lilian Greenwood, shared a picture of Barack Obama, writing that Brits love a US president “worthy of the title”.

There was little in the way of notable responses from pro-Brexit MPs to Trump’s Sun interview, however Jacob Rees-Mogg, leader of the European Research Group of pro-Brexit Tory MPs, tweeted a link to it without comment.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/13/mps-voice-outrage-at-repulsive-donald-trump-broadside-against-theresa-may

 

Rees Mogg is a spineless little caricature, he’s deluded and has never been connected with reality. Which makes it very disturbing when you think about the people that voted for him. 

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

So, hard Brexit then. Because, given the general EU attitude to the 'members' I can't see them agreeing politely to this - assuming it can be taken at face value.

Getting rid of foreign fishing vessels would be a bonus in itself, if only there were actually any fish left to catch.

FKT

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12 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

So, hard Brexit then. Because, given the general EU attitude to the 'members' I can't see them agreeing politely to this - assuming it can be taken at face value.

Getting rid of foreign fishing vessels would be a bonus in itself, if only there were actually any fish left to catch.

FKT

GB seems to be setting itself up for either a hard brexit or just bend over, grasp ankles and grit your teeth. 

The EU is most certainly aiming for the second. Not sure GB has the balls to stand up any more, mainly because they refuse to work together. Grandstanding appears the most important activity, debate and compromise has been left at the door. So the rough rogering is the most likely outcome.  

Then they will wipe the tears from their eyes and blame everyone else. The whining will be epic for decades to come. 

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I do a lot of driving with BBC playing on my radio. It seems there are a lot of very well informed pundits who admit they have no certainty about the results of Brexit.

as all I know is what I have heard and read, I know much less than the experts. . 

As I have read the posts above I have Learned many of the authors are more ignorant than I about the potential results. 

One thing is certain, the more positive any author is about the results, the more ignorant and foolish that author appears. 

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11 minutes ago, mad said:

It’s (almost) fucking laughable, they’re still arguing over the proposal the EU are most likely to bounce straight back out of the meeting. 

I read that May said that if this isn't agreed to, there very likely won't be a Brexit.

What does *that* mean? My understanding is, the UK is *out* as of next year. Period. The only thing left on the table is what terms & conditions will follow.

Or is May going to go to the EU and say 'Sorry, it's all too hard. Can we change our minds please? We really want to come back.'

That should go well.......

FKT

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Quote

Britain’s former trade commissioner in Brussels, Lord Mandelson, is making common cause with hardline, anti-EU Tories, saying Theresa May’s latest Brexit blueprint would lead to “national humiliation” and leave the country in a worse position than if it turned its back on the entire European economic system.

In an extraordinary intervention that shows that even the most ardent Remainers in parliament find the plans unacceptable, the Labour peer says the plans would deliver “the polar opposite of taking back control”, and would mean “the EU would ultimately call the shots, not just now but indefinitely”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/mandelson-brexiters-may-eu-humiliation-opinium-poll?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Well now the remainers have had enough as well!!! 

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23 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

What does *that* mean? My understanding is, the UK is *out* as of next year. Period. The only thing left on the table is what terms & conditions will follow.

Or is May going to go to the EU and say 'Sorry, it's all too hard. Can we change our minds please? We really want to come back.'

That should go well.......

 

It would go just fine.

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21 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

How did anyone think that 40+ years of integration could be reversed easily?

 

A question that’s been asked on a daily basis and that nobody has an answer to. 

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34 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I read that May said that if this isn't agreed to, there very likely won't be a Brexit.

What does *that* mean? My understanding is, the UK is *out* as of next year. Period. The only thing left on the table is what terms & conditions will follow.

Or is May going to go to the EU and say 'Sorry, it's all too hard. Can we change our minds please? We really want to come back.'

That should go well.......

FKT

Revoke article 50 and have another general election? 

I doubt it would happen, but it has to be considered at some stage soon. 

Or a second referendum, but we don’t have time for that. 

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May should sue the EU, lol.
Watching Andrew Marr with May...

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15 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

It would go just fine.

The screams from the hardline Brexiteers would be deafening. 

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5 minutes ago, LeoV said:

May should sue the EU, lol.
Watching Andrew Marr with May...

So I’m not the only sad person who watches Sunday politics   :P

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1 minute ago, mad said:

So I’m not the only sad person who watches Sunday politics   :P

It is so much more entertaining then our Sunday politics :0

After Brexit with no deal, the Uk will get a two year period to change all that is needed, but it will fail and suffer in the meantime. Then new talks will be done with the EU, another two years of confusion. Pound will drop.
Then there will be a new referendum, and remain will probably win. People hate insecurity if it takes to long.
Or something totally different.

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8 minutes ago, LeoV said:

It is so much more entertaining then our Sunday politics :0

After Brexit with no deal, the Uk will get a two year period to change all that is needed, but it will fail and suffer in the meantime. Then new talks will be done with the EU, another two years of confusion. Pound will drop.
Then there will be a new referendum, and remain will probably win. People hate insecurity if it takes to long.
Or something totally different.

Throw another general election into that mix as well. 

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What is the earliest and latest datum for an election ?
Shortest is one year after the latest, when was May elected ?

Ah, 5 May 2022, normally or

A motion of no confidence passed in Her Majesty’s Government by a simple majority and 14 days elapses without the House passing a confidence motion in any new Government formed."

A motion for a general election is agreed by two thirds of the total number of seats in the Commons including vacant seats (currently 434 out of 650)

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

It is so much more entertaining then our Sunday politics :0

After Brexit with no deal, the Uk will get a two year period to change all that is needed, but it will fail and suffer in the meantime. Then new talks will be done with the EU, another two years of confusion. Pound will drop.
Then there will be a new referendum, and remain will probably win. People hate insecurity if it takes to long.
Or something totally different.

at that moment in your timeline (which is pretty possible) it would not anymore be about "remain" but about" re-entry", which would be again a totally different ballgame, at that point the question would come up if there can be a difference in process between an -ex member coming back or a country wanting to become a member like a couple Balkan countries that are still in the pipeline

just a couple of minutes ago on radio heard a comment that even if the brits would have another vote now and the vote would be "stay", it would not matter as the process is irriversible since in laws,rules and whatever, there is just no provision to recall it ... disclaimer, don't know if that was just an opinion or hard truth.

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I read that May said that if this isn't agreed to, there very likely won't be a Brexit.

What does *that* mean? My understanding is, the UK is *out* as of next year. Period. The only thing left on the table is what terms & conditions will follow.

Or is May going to go to the EU and say 'Sorry, it's all too hard. Can we change our minds please? We really want to come back.'

That should go well.......

FKT

How can there NOT be a brexit???  Is she going to the EU and tell them:  "Haha, we were just kidding".  

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12 minutes ago, Albatros said:

at that moment in your timeline (which is pretty possible) it would not anymore be about "remain" but about" re-entry", which would be again a totally different ballgame, at that point the question would come up if there can be a difference in process between an -ex member coming back or a country wanting to become a member like a couple Balkan countries that are still in the pipeline

just a couple of minutes ago on radio heard a comment that even if the brits would have another vote now and the vote would be "stay", it would not matter as the process is irriversible since in laws,rules and whatever, there is just no provision to recall it ... disclaimer, don't know if that was just an opinion or hard truth.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39291512

its debatable, but it’s seems a possibility.    

Quote

In the recent UK Supreme Court case on Article 50, both sides assumed that it was irrevocable and the court judgement concluded: "We are content to proceed on the basis that that is correct, without expressing any view of our own." 

So this is not an issue that has been formally tested in a UK court. 

But European Council President Donald Tusk has said that he believes Article 50 can be reversed. 

When asked if the UK could unilaterally withdraw its Article 50 notification during the next two years, he said, "Formally, legally, yes."

Lord Kerr - the former British ambassador to the EU, who helped draft Article 50 - agreed.

 

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11 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

How can there NOT be a brexit???  Is she going to the EU and tell them:  "Haha, we were just kidding".  

It’ll be a huge slice of humble pie to consume. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

It’ll be a huge slice of humble pie to consume. 

I'd really, really, really like to see you do that. The entertainment value would be enormous.

Not to mention, no other country on the entire *planet*, let alone the other EU members, would ever take anything you said seriously again.

You think *Trump* is causing credibility problems for the USA? A mere bagatelle compared to backing out of Brexit.

FKT

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4 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I'd really, really, really like to see you do that. The entertainment value would be enormous.

Not to mention, no other country on the entire *planet*, let alone the other EU members, would ever take anything you said seriously again.

You think *Trump* is causing credibility problems for the USA? A mere bagatelle compared to backing out of Brexit.

FKT

Exactly, it’ll never happen. 

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May Hits back at Trump..Sue the EU?:o

watch her laugh :D

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44838028

Later, speaking to the BBC, Ms May said Mr Trump had previously advised her to sue the European Union as part of her Brexit strategy, revealing a piece of advice Mr Trump said on Friday she had ignored for being too "brutal".

"He told me I should sue the EU," Ms May told BBC television.

"Sue the EU. Not go into negotiations — sue them."

 

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3 hours ago, mad said:

It’ll be a huge slice of humble pie to consume. 

anyway you go is a huge slice of humble pie to consume.

the only way that isn't is the fantasy of Trump "sue the EU" and the usual conservative lot. As stated in a US oped today

Quote

A common thread linking “hard” Brexiteers to nationalists across the globe is that they resent the very idea of governing as a complex, modern, fact-based set of activities that requires technical expertise and permanent officials.”

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Just now, Lark said:

The debate worries about the Irish boarder, the plight of the rich bankers, foreign owned car industry.    What of the human toll?   I’ve met several people of my generation or younger in relationships without boarders.    How will they be affected?   

 

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Brexit campaign group Vote Leave has been fined £61,000 and referred to the police after an Electoral Commission probe said it broke electoral law.

The watchdog said it exceeded its £7m spending limit by funnelling £675,315 through pro-Brexit youth group BeLeave.

The founder of BeLeave, Darren Grimes, has been fined £20,000 and referred to the police, along with Vote Leave official David Halsall.

Vote Leave said the "wholly inaccurate" report was politically motivated.

The Vote Leave campaign, which was fronted by Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, won the contest to be the official Leave campaign in the 2016 referendum on whether Britain should stay in the European Union.

 

Quote

It is impossible to say how overspending by the Vote Leave campaign affected the referendum result. It all went to one marketing firm, which developed highly-targeted Facebook advertising.

In a quote since removed from the Aggregate IQ website, Vote Leave campaign director Dominic Cummings said: "We couldn't have done it without them."

Aggregate IQ websiteImage copyrightAGGREGATE IQ DATA

Former Vote Leave activist Shahmir Sanni, who went public with allegations about overspending earlier this year, told BBC Radio 4's The World at One the extra cash spent by BeLeave had affected the referendum outcome - saying such a sum "can make all the difference".

Anti-Brexit Labour peer Lord Adonis said Vote Leave's overspending "could have been decisive" in the 2016 referendum because it was a close result but he did not want to re-run that campaign.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992

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A pity there was a contest to be the only leave campaign. The in fight was may be hidden by this.

But May deserves a holiday :)

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1 hour ago, mad said:

It is impossible to say how overspending by the Vote Leave campaign affected the referendum result. It all went to one marketing firm, which developed highly-targeted Facebook advertising.

In a quote since removed from the Aggregate IQ website, Vote Leave campaign director Dominic Cummings said: "We couldn't have done it without them."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44856992

It had to have been the Russians!  

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1 minute ago, Shootist Jeff said:

It had to have been the Russians!  

It would not be surprising at all if there was some back-door funding and assistance from Russians. IIRC, that's what the Cambridge Analytica investigation is looking in to. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

summary:  Theresa May will be gone soon

BTW - I called it.

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12 hours ago, RKoch said:

It would not be surprising at all if there was some back-door funding and assistance from Russians. IIRC, that's what the Cambridge Analytica investigation is looking in to. 

I suspect Putin’s help is attractive because his very capable organization doesn’t bill, unlike the more legitimate market research and dirty tricks companies.   Useful angle when political spending is limited (or the politician has a bad credit history).

 

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Has May said Vote Leave had no influence and she trusts Putin?? 

 

(Like a guy from another English speaking country just did in Helsinki) 

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17 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

It had to have been the Russians!  

 

Carole CadwalladrVerified account @carolecadwalla
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NEW: this is Dana Rohrabacher aka ‘Putin’s favourite Congressman’ revealed y’day as unnamed congressman cited in FBI affidavit of Russian agent, Maria Butina. I first posted this in July last year. It’s now deleted. Yet another thing for @nigel_farage to not answer questions on?

 

 

DiXfUXwWkAAa3ip.jpg

 

 

Well the connections seem to be getting closer and closer

and the connections between AggregateIQ and Cambridge Analytica etc here.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/31/aggregateiq-canadian-tech-brexit-data-riddle-cambridge-analytica

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16 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

BTW - I called it.

Its not exactly a secret that she is on borrowed time.

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On 7/15/2018 at 10:11 AM, Lark said:
On 7/15/2018 at 10:11 AM, Lark said:

The debate worries about the Irish boarder, the plight of the rich bankers, foreign owned car industry.    What of the human toll?   I’ve met several people of my generation or younger in relationships without boarders.    How will they be affected?   

 

Not sure which Irishman you're talking about nor where he was boarding.

Perhaps AirBnB can help the younger generation find boarders?

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When will Boris have his recognition speech ? Will be interesting.

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5 hours ago, mad said:
22 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

BTW - I called it.

Its not exactly a secret that she is on borrowed time.

I deserve at least a little credit.  At least I know who your PM is when most yanks can't find the UK on a map of the world.:D

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43 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I deserve at least a little credit.  At least I know who your PM is when most yanks can't find the UK on a map of the world.:D

Presumably the military provides special training in the location of various countries they may be flying to or bombing.    Clearly your knowledge is a step above the standards of the American education system.   

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2 minutes ago, Lark said:

Presumably the military provides special training in the location of various countries they may be flying to or bombing.    Clearly your knowledge is a step above the standards of the American education system.   

True.  We had special geography classes in most likely the countries to blow the fuck up.  

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Boris speaks, we have enough time, yeah.

Raab talking today with Eu, will be interesting too.

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On 7/15/2018 at 1:32 AM, Ease the sheet. said:

How did anyone think that 40+ years of integration could be reversed easily?

 

They saw how quickly Trump fucked up 200 years of U.S. policy and activity and said "Hey, that looks easy".

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
On 7/15/2018 at 12:32 PM, Ease the sheet. said:

How did anyone think that 40+ years of integration could be reversed easily?

 

They saw how quickly Trump fucked up 200 years of U.S. policy and activity and said "Hey, that looks easy".

Yeah, except trump was in office for all of about 2 months when the Brexit vote happened, so I don't think he had enough time yet to fuck up 200 years of US policy by then.  It was a nice thought, but a fail analogy.  Try again......

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39 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yeah, except trump was in office for all of about 2 months when the Brexit vote happened, so I don't think he had enough time yet to fuck up 200 years of US policy by then.  It was a nice thought, but a fail analogy.  Try again......

Perhaps.  I think trump was more a middle man than an influencer......

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yeah, except trump was in office for all of about 2 months when the Brexit vote happened, so I don't think he had enough time yet to fuck up 200 years of US policy by then.  It was a nice thought, but a fail analogy.  Try again......

He was fucking around before he made office, the tie-up with Bannon and Farage and Cambridge Analytica is known and is still being uncovered. You don't have to be in office to fuck around with stuff, just an agenda, as is proved by the others involved.

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6 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yeah, except trump was in office for all of about 2 months when the Brexit vote happened, so I don't think he had enough time yet to fuck up 200 years of US policy by then.  It was a nice thought, but a fail analogy.  Try again......

Well he has since proven them right then hasn't he?

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4 hours ago, mad said:

He was fucking around before he made office, the tie-up with Bannon and Farage and Cambridge Analytica is known and is still being uncovered. You don't have to be in office to fuck around with stuff, just an agenda, as is proved by the others involved.

Tell us, please, how that directly impacted Brexit? 

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15 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Tell us, please, how that directly impacted Brexit? 

There are links above showing the connection between all the parties and the subsequent illegal campaign funds, have you read any of them? 

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5 hours ago, mad said:

He was fucking around before he made office, the tie-up with Bannon and Farage and Cambridge Analytica is known and is still being uncovered. You don't have to be in office to fuck around with stuff, just an agenda, as is proved by the others involved.

The Mercer family (money behind Breitbart and Bannon) were heavy financial backers of Trump, and also were the financial backers of Cambridge Analytica that was using propaganda to boost Brexit support. IOW, Nazis going global. 

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11 minutes ago, mad said:

There are links above showing the connection between all the parties and the subsequent illegal campaign funds, have you read any of them? 

Those links don't support this claim: 

5 hours ago, mad said:

He was fucking around before he made office, the tie-up with Bannon and Farage and Cambridge Analytica is known and is still being uncovered. You don't have to be in office to fuck around with stuff, just an agenda, as is proved by the others involved

I don't like Trump any more than y'all do - but, he didn't make the Dingo eat the baby, and claims like that really diminish your point.    Could the same people who helped finance Trump have had an interest in seeing a vote for Brexit?  Indeed - but, that's a bit different than you alleged. 

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21 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Tell us, please, how that directly impacted Brexit? 

You never wondered why farage was on the campaign trail with trump?

Surely a foreigner speaking for trump at a rally or two made the news there?

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On 6/20/2018 at 2:58 PM, mad said:

Image result for trump, farage, banks photograph

 

Anybody really believe there's no connection??

Does this help for those that can’t see the connection? 

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Back to Brexit entailments;

Dutch carpet company, 40% sales in the Uk, is preparing for Brexit.
He is not afraid that Uk producers will eat in his sales, as tariffs hit them as well on raw material. (70% of cost).
He is worried about the Pound dropping and economy of the UK slumping meaning less orders.
Looking for other markets.
https://www.nu.nl/economie/5373098/zo-bereidt-tapijtenproducent-zich-brexit.html

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https://www.channel4.com/news/exclusive-court-documents-claim-new-arron-banks-links-with-russia

Quote

The statement of his former business partner says: “I was finally made aware in October [2015] that in truth, Banks had been dealing with Russians who contemplated investing in the mines…. I was informed by Banks that he had travelled to Russia and discussed with them the diamond opportunities as well as gold mining opportunities in Russia. He further indicated that he would be meeting with the Russians again during November [2015].”

He also claims in the documents that Banks raised money from investors for the mines, but instead put the funds into the Brexit campaign and other interests.

 

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49 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Back to Brexit entailments;

Dutch carpet company, 40% sales in the Uk, is preparing for Brexit.
He is not afraid that Uk producers will eat in his sales, as tariffs hit them as well on raw material. (70% of cost).
He is worried about the Pound dropping and economy of the UK slumping meaning less orders.
Looking for other markets.
https://www.nu.nl/economie/5373098/zo-bereidt-tapijtenproducent-zich-brexit.html

This is pretty much a certainty. The Brits jetting off for there beloved holidays in europe are already experiencing that the pound doesn’t go as far. Seems that this is another issue that the Brexit voters didn’t consider. :huh:

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13 minutes ago, mad said:

B550F9DC-E6D0-4D16-9148-BF7BEF9BDCD7.jpeg

Probably a bit late for that.....

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Probably a bit late for that.....

Probably, I don’t expect the courts or the government have the guts to seriously look into this. If they do? it’ll take years. 

 

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In the meantime, Listen to this to see the disconnected idiots making decisions!  How the fuck did this guy get elected to represent the people??

 

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Russia had their hand in Brexit just as they had their finger in Cheeto.

Quote

Russians Offered Business Deals to Brexit’s Biggest Backer

LONDON — Arron Banks, a British financier who bankrolled the campaign for Britain to leave the European Union, has long bragged about his “boozy six-hour lunch” with the Russian ambassador eight months before the vote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/world/europe/russia-britain-brexit-arron-banks.html

 

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22 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Russia had their hand in Brexit just as they had their finger in Cheeto.

Quote

Russians Offered Business Deals to Brexit’s Biggest Backer

LONDON — Arron Banks, a British financier who bankrolled the campaign for Britain to leave the European Union, has long bragged about his “boozy six-hour lunch” with the Russian ambassador eight months before the vote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/world/europe/russia-britain-brexit-arron-banks.html

 

This story originally broke about 2 years ago, and it’s taken this long to make the general news!!  Most people that talked about it were labelled anti Brexit conspiracy nuts. 

Bit late for the country to finally fucking wake up!!

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24 minutes ago, mad said:

Pretty predictable really. When people cut their noses off to spite their faces...the mouth usually cries foul and the hand says "but that's not what was supposed to happen".:rolleyes:

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