mad

Brexit, and all it entails

Recommended Posts

Would you care to explain, or maybe your wife could? 

It would be interesting to hear her thinking on this firsthand. Out of curiosity, which side of the border is she from and when did she last live in Ireland? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, mad said:

Would you care to explain, or maybe your wife could? 

It would be interesting to hear her thinking on this firsthand. Out of curiosity, which side of the border is she from and when did she last live in Ireland? 

Friend of mine's wife is from Northern Ireland. She's in her mid 70's. Hasn't much good to say about the place, tells horrible tales of how you were always being judged on your religion and the myriad ways, some more subtle than others, that people would use to try to find out. She professes to be a Calathumpian.

She's married to a German survivor of WW2, one of 2 out of his entire extended family that survived that war (the other one was an aunt in the USA who'd got out before the war started). He's about to turn 80.

A lot of stuff about Ireland reminds me of the saying about the Bourbons - they forgot nothing and they learned nothing. We'll see what happens with Brexit on that score.

FKT

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FKT covered it pretty well. Even Quebec got rid of church control of society 1/2 century ago.

If you met my wife's family on the Irish side you'd understand.

But enough of that - you go on admiring them if that's what you do.

As I said, the guy in The Commitments had it right IMO.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

My Irish wife would disagree with you and agree with me.

Well, you've already given one example of her, um, rationalism........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

FKT covered it pretty well. Even Quebec got rid of church control of society 1/2 century ago.

If you met my wife's family on the Irish side you'd understand.

But enough of that - you go on admiring them if that's what you do.

As I said, the guy in The Commitments had it right IMO.

I’m not admiring ‘them’, I just asked you a question or 2. To which you  neatly side-stepped. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Here's a really fascinating interview with a Guardian reporter about an 18 month investigative report into the men behind Brexit and the links between Trump, Farage and Russia.

Transcript here

Audio here

The Cambridge Analytica angle is really fascinating.

Good interview. Thanks for the link.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

FKT covered it pretty well. Even Quebec got rid of church control of society 1/2 century ago.

If you met my wife's family on the Irish side you'd understand.

But enough of that - you go on admiring them if that's what you do.

As I said, the guy in The Commitments had it right IMO.

Who are these "them" of which you speak? The Irish as a whole? The people throwing incendiary devices at homes? Those causing riots? 

And which part of the Commitments are your referring to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EU gps system Galileo launched a couple satellites. Partly Uk made. Will they get the order again for the next ones, not sure. Can the Uk defence use the high accuracy setting, most likely.

And May will lead the talks with the Eu directly, passing Raab, May to the rescue...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

36 minutes ago, LeoV said:

EU gps system Galileo launched a couple satellites. Partly Uk made. Will they get the order again for the next ones, not sure. Can the Uk defence use the high accuracy setting, most likely.

And May will lead the talks with the Eu directly, passing Raab, May to the rescue...

Galileo vs GPS vs Glonass.  Unless Europe or the US gets tossed from NATO the defense establishments will have access to the hi-res signals.  Actually, the US turned off Selective Availability a long time ago and are continually updating the system for a variety of missions. 

My 2013 Etrex 10 works with both GPS and Glonass.  Each system (and the chinese) are optimized for their area of operation but all provide more than enough accuracy for most applications.  If the satellite system itself doesn't provide the necessary accuracy you can always use differential GPS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Black Sox said:

Who are these "them" of which you speak? The Irish as a whole? The people throwing incendiary devices at homes? Those causing riots? 

And which part of the Commitments are your referring to?

A generalized comment on the backwardness of Irish society. The same applies to all societies or countries that allow the churches to have significant control over the sociopolitical aspects of those societies.

The Commitments comment refers to when the band member is talking about them being a bunch of white Irish guys performing blues & soul music. If you don't get it, watch the movie again. ;)

But enough of this - I'm not a fan of where Irish society has been and currently is - leave it at that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saorse, na, do some research, talking about the high accuracy EU members get, and the US can block too the Uk and the rest of the world from it.
But more directly Galileo is a multi billion project, and the Uk played a roll in that and made money off it. That will likely be gone, though the brainy workers will be bought and work for French and German contractors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry - I couldn't resist when Hobs posted this one today.

image.png.b40058351a017bbaf2b769f455787b88.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Saorse, na, do some research, talking about the high accuracy EU members get, and the US can block too the Uk and the rest of the world from it.
But more directly Galileo is a multi billion project, and the Uk played a roll in that and made money off it. That will likely be gone, though the brainy workers will be bought and work for French and German contractors.

No, I agree.  I would expect a system built to go into full operation in 2020 to do better than something that has been operational since 1995 creating a whole new industry for free.

I'm not convinced on the need for space based precision on that proposed.  It's nice if it's possible as a by-product of new technology but the 2-3 meters we can get with WAAS and other differential systems is adequate.  If I need measurements of something under a meter I would go with some terrestrial methodolgy.  For example finding breaks in a fiber cable with a time domain reflectometer.  Leica DGPS systems claim sub centimeter accuracy using the old GPS system.

I doubt if the engineers need to leave the UK.  The whole GPS industry has been built all around the world although the system was operated from the US.

That's one reason I like to point out that change is coming and you need to adapt to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think they maybe should have had a plan before the referendum? 

1d6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, mad said:

Credit to Sol for posting this in another thread. 

https://sputniknews.com/world/201807271066727212-us-eu-trade-trump/

 

:P:o

He apparently can't read, and only understands simple concepts. Just like his redhat followers.

From the link:

"According to The Wall Street Journal, the EU representative used simplified flashcards to convey certain trade concepts and ideas to Trump with a maximum of three parameters to explain topics such as car industry or medical equipment. Juncker used more than a dozen of such cards, the media added.

 

The newspaper reported, citing a source, who had been present at the meeting, that it was supposed to be very simple."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2018 at 2:32 AM, Saorsa said:

 do better than something that has been operational since 1995 creating a whole new industry for free.

 

GPS was/is a masterpiece, point final. Galileo is a natural follow-on and useful too as it makes us less dependend, like it or not. Galileo can do more, which is normal.

but your timing is wrong, otherwise I'm a total visionary as the little booklet on GPS basic principles which I wrote as an internal training book, based on the milspecs (each page had a Nato confidential stamp on it) was dated early 1992 ... GPS existed already in the late 80"s , your military released the info end of 80's on the assumption that it would take commercial companies something like 5 years to come up with sets, they were so much surprised that it took us about 1 year that they used our sets during a certain desert shield operation, what was the timing on that one ? grin, are we getting old or what ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2018 at 10:40 AM, Gutterblack said:

Do you think they maybe should have had a plan before the referendum? 

1d6.jpg

love it :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/29/2018 at 3:59 AM, RKoch said:

 

"According to The Wall Street Journal, the EU representative used simplified flashcards to convey certain trade concepts and ideas to Trump with a maximum of three parameters to explain topics such as car industry or medical equipment. Juncker used more than a dozen of such cards, the media added.

Wish I could get my hands on those cards, guess it'll remain an internationally guarded secret. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

A no-deal Brexit poses a substantial risk to public safety, with police officers instantly losing vital access to cross-border investigative powers and databases, the home secretary has been told in a letter from the national body of police and crime commissioners.

In the leaked document – marked “official sensitive” – the police leaders urge Sajid Javid to immediately draft contingency plans, warning that officers faced “a significant loss of operational capacity” should the UK crash out of the EU in March.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/06/police-leaders-warn-home-secretary-public-safety-threat-from-no-deal-brexit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jim-ratcliffe-brexit-uk-richest-man-monaco-move-tax-haven-eu-leave-a8484211.html

Quote

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Britain’s wealthiest man and a key Brexit backer, has decided to leave the UK and live in Monaco.

Despite his previous claims that the UK would be “perfectly successful” outside of the European Union (EU), the billionaire has chosen to leave the country of his birth and move to the principality, whose residents do not pay income tax, on the Mediterranean coast. 

Another pro Brexit supporter slinks away...... with a sailing connection as well 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Jacob Rees-Mogg has sparked a fresh row about the status of the Irish border after Brexit after a video emerged in which he suggests a return to checks “as we had during the Troubles”.

The Conservative MP is seen on the footage from the public meeting suggesting the government could “keep an eye on” the border.

“Ireland would not be a free for all. It would be perfectly possible to continue with historic arrangements to ensure that there wasn’t a great loophole in the way people can get into the UK, to leave us in as bad a position as we are already in,” Rees-Mogg says.

This guy is a disconnected idiot of epic proportions. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/26/have-people-inspected-at-irish-border-after-brexit-says-jacob-rees-mogg?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Michel Barnier trashes Theresa May's Chequers plan for Brexit as 'end' for EU

https://news.sky.com/story/michel-barnier-trashes-theresa-mays-chequers-plan-for-brexit-as-end-for-eu-11488846

Quote

Jacob Rees-Mogg has claimed that he and the EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, bonded in a meeting in Brussels over their shared assessment that Theresa May’s Chequers plan is “complete rubbish”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/03/rees-mogg-barnier-agrees-chequers-deal-is-rubbish

Well this is working out really well...........:wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bonding with Rees Mogg, my god.

Off course the plan now on the table is unacceptable, May must have know that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well we’re feeling really confident on this one then. 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/sep/18/bmw-shut-mini-plant-brexit-no-deal

Quote

BMW plans to shut its Mini plant for a month after the UK’s official departure from the European Union, to minimise the impact of a no-deal Brexit that it fears would cause a shortage of parts.

The German carmaker said it was bringing forward annual maintenance work at the site in Cowley, Oxford – which turns out 1,000 Minis a day – to coincide with the weeks immediately following the UK’s exit from the EU.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good segment on the current Brexit happs.....

https://www.npr.org/2018/09/19/649432639/european-leaders-talk-brexit-in-austria

Hey @mad, one of, if not the biggest, sticking points I keep hearing about is the Irish border.  The discussion seems to be the closing of the border is a huge deal there for obvious reasons.  I get the "why" its a big deal, but who would be driving to close the border if there was a "No Deal Brexit"?  Would the UK close it or would the EU insist to close it, or both?  

My thought would be to just leave it alone, somewhat ignore it and let it run as is - at least from the UK perspective - and let it go on somewhat as normal.  Any closing of the border and subsequent pain would be then be induced by the EU itself, not the UK.  And the EU would be blamed for the problem, not the UK.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Eu can not ignore an open border, so they will erect some kind of border controls. As there will be between the Uk and Eu like Dover.
Would be stupid to have 90% border control, and one place open. Hello smugglers and human trafficking.
And the Tories are in bed with the DUB, a dinosaur North Ireland party with great credentials, humm not.
Something to do with NI belonging to the UK, and not wanting controls in between NI and the UK (a solution for keeping the NI/Ire border open), so it must take place on the NI/Ireland border, simple as fuck.

The Uk is great in blaming the Eu for everything, so one more topic does not hurt. You have to wonder why so many illegals want to go to the Uk, maybe something to do with their laws that differ from most of the Eu...(there are basic rules in all of the Eu to follow, with all countries a different by law).

Oh, as predicted

, November meeting last chance to work a deal out, so easy to predict, Uk still infighting, so the clock ticks on.

Off all the plans brought forward by May, non is acceptable to all EU countries, two already said this latest plan is bad.
You need all countries of the EU to agree, or its hard Brexit.

May basicly said that because the Uk will suffer so the Eu has to be lenient. In what world is that party living. They wanted out.
Source; open letter of May in Die Welt.
https://www.welt.de/debatte/kommentare/article181579426/Theresa-May-May-warns-EU-not-to-treat-UK-unfairly-in-Brexit-talks.html

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Leo, a better summary than I would have written. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Stalin settled ethnic Russians in Estonia. This was not done so that Baltic people could enjoy the fruits of diversity. It was done in an attempt to destroy an existing culture. The English need some of that diversity. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mad, I keep tabs on this exit for a small company of a friend. The role of the DUB is now interesting.

Oh, alternative brilliant idea I came up with, just force Ireland to leave the Eu too :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LeoV said:

Mad, I keep tabs on this exit for a small company of a friend. The role of the DUB is now interesting.

Oh, alternative brilliant idea I came up with, just force Ireland to leave the Eu too :)

My suggestion was better, give Northern Ireland back to the rest of the place. Problem solved.....

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could an islander explain to a colonist why Northern Ireland hasn’t left lessor Britain to stick with Ireland and the EU?   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is great

BIRMINGHAM, England (Reuters) - A solution to providing frictionless trade across the Irish border after Britain leaves the European Union might be found using technology such as Blockchain, finance minister Phillip Hammond said on Monday

“There is technology becoming available (...) I don’t claim to be an expert on it but the most obvious technology is blockchain,” Hammond said when asked about how the government could achieve smooth trade after Brexit.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/21/2018 at 12:32 PM, Lark said:

Could an islander explain to a colonist why Northern Ireland hasn’t left lessor Britain to stick with Ireland and the EU?   

To Protestant Northern Irish, the barest hint that they are not fully as much part of the UK as central London is anathema.

To Catholic Northern Irish, the barest hint that they are not fully as Irish as anyone in downtown Dublin is anathema.

They fought a shooting war over this and might do so again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

To Protestant Northern Irish, the barest hint that they are not fully as much part of the UK as central London is anathema.

To Catholic Northern Irish, the barest hint that they are not fully as Irish as anyone in downtown Dublin is anathema.

They fought a shooting war over this and might do so again.

I didn't know the Protestant faction felt English.  I understood they wanted to be one of four 'equal kingdoms', every bit as good as the folks on the other island and not dictated to by any snobbish occupiers from hundreds of years past.   Or are the Protestants the descendants of the occupiers?   Did the Brexit vote split upon religious lines in Northern Ireland?  Is there intermarriage between Protestants and Catholics, or Irish and Northern Irish, or are they functionally segregated?   My Brother's wedding involved several European guests, often from households of more then one nationality or living in a country other then the birth country.   I got the impression that the borders were becoming a legal fiction to a generation, probably the reality that scared the Brexit supporters into shooting their own foot .    I  understand Northern Ireland had benefited immensely from the EU and Irish commerce, but can see where ideology might be deemed more important then prosperity.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Lark said:

I didn't know the Protestant faction felt English.  I understood they wanted to be one of four 'equal kingdoms', every bit as good as the folks on the other island and not dictated to by any snobbish occupiers from hundreds of years past.   Or are the Protestants the descendants of the occupiers?   Did the Brexit vote split upon religious lines in Northern Ireland?  Is there intermarriage between Protestants and Catholics, or Irish and Northern Irish, or are they functionally segregated?   My Brother's wedding involved several European guests, often from households of more then one nationality or living in a country other then the birth country.   I got the impression that the borders were becoming a legal fiction to a generation, probably the reality that scared the Brexit supporters into shooting their own foot .    I  understand Northern Ireland had benefited immensely from the EU and Irish commerce, but can see where ideology might be deemed more important then prosperity.   

Have some reading material. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Defence_Association

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_loyalism

And for a bit of the latest Brexit clusterfuck. 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/series/brexit-explained

and some basic history 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disasters_in_Great_Britain_and_Ireland_by_death_toll#Over_200_fatalities

Do you not have access to international news or history?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Lark said:

I didn't know the Protestant faction felt English.  I understood they wanted to be one of four 'equal kingdoms', every bit as good as the folks on the other island and not dictated to by any snobbish occupiers from hundreds of years past.   Or are the Protestants the descendants of the occupiers?   Did the Brexit vote split upon religious lines in Northern Ireland?  Is there intermarriage between Protestants and Catholics, or Irish and Northern Irish, or are they functionally segregated?   My Brother's wedding involved several European guests, often from households of more then one nationality or living in a country other then the birth country.   I got the impression that the borders were becoming a legal fiction to a generation, probably the reality that scared the Brexit supporters into shooting their own foot .    I  understand Northern Ireland had benefited immensely from the EU and Irish commerce, but can see where ideology might be deemed more important then prosperity.   

The protestants are/were the occupiers (depending on who you identify with - my own family is on both sides of this one)  and are utterly opposed to anything that makes Northern Ireland not fully part of the UK. Being submerged into the greater EU allowed them to still think that AND not have a border with Ireland. This will go away, it would be like having a lock on your front door and the back door not even on the hinges :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1050386240888016897?s=21

 

Quote

Police still not investigating Leave campaigns, citing ‘political sensitivities’ 

ADAM RAMSAY and JAMES CUSICK 11 October 2018

Exclusive: Months after Scotland Yard received ‘substantial’ evidence of potential criminality by pro-Leave groups, nothing has happened. Is the police probe destined for the political long-grass?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every time I think the USA is the dumbest country on this planet, I come to this thread to remind myself it is a hard fought contest and the UK is looking like they might pull off a victory :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/12/2018 at 6:29 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

Every time I think the USA is the dumbest country on this planet, I come to this thread to remind myself it is a hard fought contest and the UK is looking like they might pull off a victory :rolleyes:

nowhere close :)

Actually what's happening in the UK and the USA makes NZ look smart. :toot:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Brexit negotiations have hit a "real problem" over the issue of the Irish border, government sources have warned.

Ahead of a key summit, the EU is believed to be seeking further reassurances to prevent a so-called hard border involving physical checks.

Hopes of a breakthrough were raised when the Brexit secretary made an unscheduled trip to Brussels on Sunday.

But talks faltered over the need for a back-up plan - known as the backstop - to avoid a hard border.

UK Prime Minister Theresa May has insisted any backstop arrangement should apply to the UK as a whole to avoid creating a new border in the Irish Sea.

But Sunday's talks had broken down after the EU had insisted on a second backstop arrangement - just involving Northern Ireland - if the UK's version wasn't ready in time, Downing Street sources indicated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45859282

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heard an interview on RTE Radio this morning with a UK Conservative, John Redwood, I think. He was educating the presenter to the effect that the vote had been taken and it is now time to just get out, get control of their own trade agreements, not be subject to EU rules etc. At one point he mentioned something like they just want their independence back.

Could be just me but I found it ironic coming from a UK politician talking to an Irish interviewer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Black Sox said:

Heard an interview on RTE Radio this morning with a UK Conservative, John Redwood, I think. He was educating the presenter to the effect that the vote had been taken and it is now time to just get out, get control of their own trade agreements, not be subject to EU rules etc. At one point he mentioned something like they just want their independence back.

Could be just me but I found it ironic coming from a UK politician talking to an Irish interviewer.

:P

Just a bunch of misguided morons grasping at any straw they can, they just haven't realised (still) that we need to comply with EU rules to continue trading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mad said:

:P

Just a bunch of misguided morons grasping at any straw they can, they just haven't realised (still) that we need to comply with EU rules to continue trading.

Fuck the EU. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gary Younge is good on this issue . . also writes for the Guardian 

https://www.thenation.com/article/a-small-nation-that-thinks-its-a-world-power/

the most amazing thing about Brexit is that its backers made no plans for the consequences, and they STILL have not. 

So Boris gets his Brexit and then attacks May's negotiations. 

Amazing - almost Troumpesque in its stupidity. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Black Sox said:

Heard an interview on RTE Radio this morning with a UK Conservative, John Redwood, I think. He was educating the presenter to the effect that the vote had been taken and it is now time to just get out, get control of their own trade agreements, not be subject to EU rules etc. At one point he mentioned something like they just want their independence back.

Could be just me but I found it ironic coming from a UK politician talking to an Irish interviewer.

A recent traveler tells me the Irish Republic media is buzzing with offers to integrate Northern Ireland.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Lark said:

A recent traveler tells me the Irish Republic media is buzzing with offers to integrate Northern Ireland.

Can’t see that happening no matter how badly they feel about it.

Even if they all wanted to, it would take years to sort out and still doesn’t solve the border issues in the short term 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, mad said:

Can’t see that happening no matter how badly they feel about it.

Even if they all wanted to, it would take years to sort out and still doesn’t solve the border issues in the short term 

I've been expecting another referendum if the Brexit crowd doesn't suddenly reveal their secret plan and solve the border issue.   There will be a lot of chaos if they install old style pre EU national boarders between the Irelands.    I don't think reuniting the Irelands makes as much sense as just trying to join the EU on their own, or maybe with the Guernsey Islands as a dowry.   That's why I've been calling it Lessor Britain since Brexit.  Just as Trump had no clue how much travel and commerce occurs between the US and Canada, and how closely linked the two countries are when he started his trade war, I don't think the Brexiters were interested in the reality of their island either.   Napoleon is dead.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lark said:

I've been expecting another referendum if the Brexit crowd doesn't suddenly reveal their secret plan and solve the boarder issue.   There will be a lot of chaos if they install old style pre EU national boarders between the Irelands.    I don't think reuniting the Irelands makes as much sense as just trying to join the EU on their own, or maybe with the Guernsey Islands as a dowry.   That's why I've been calling it Lessor Britain since Brexit.  Just as Trump had no clew how much travel and commerce occurs between the US and Canada, and how closely linked the two countries are when he started his trade war, I don't think the Brexiters were interested in the reality of their island either.   Napoleon is dead.   

Before they can join the EU, they have to leave the UK and that’s the crux. If that even looks to be a possibility, there will be thousands/millions looking to take up residence so they can be included. 

And I’ll be on that list as well. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lark said:

 Napoleon is dead.   

Funny you say that, after he was beaten for the second time, and war had costed millions of lives, the English made the first proposals to unify Europe.
So actually the English are the first European Union lovers :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, LeoV said:

Funny you say that, after he was beaten for the second time, and war had costed millions of lives, the English made the first proposals to unify Europe.
So actually the English are the first European Union lovers :)

Did not know that.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, LeoV said:

I’m going to have fun sending that round. 

I’ve already upset a good few with my one above, including family. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, mad said:

FE0B79A8-5BB4-4819-B4CB-8C5D110EBA1A.jpeg

That's the stupidest thing I've read here today.  But its still early.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, mad said:
14 hours ago, Lark said:

I've been expecting another referendum if the Brexit crowd doesn't suddenly reveal their secret plan and solve the boarder issue.   There will be a lot of chaos if they install old style pre EU national boarders between the Irelands.    I don't think reuniting the Irelands makes as much sense as just trying to join the EU on their own, or maybe with the Guernsey Islands as a dowry.   That's why I've been calling it Lessor Britain since Brexit.  Just as Trump had no clew how much travel and commerce occurs between the US and Canada, and how closely linked the two countries are when he started his trade war, I don't think the Brexiters were interested in the reality of their island either.   Napoleon is dead.   

Before they can join the EU, they have to leave the UK and that’s the crux. If that even looks to be a possibility, there will be thousands/millions looking to take up residence so they can be included. 

And I’ll be on that list as well. 

Now I'm confused. Lark, are you talking about Northern Ireland leaving Britain and joining the EU in their own right? Or becoming part of Ireland and staying in the EU?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, mad said:
Quote

Brexit negotiations have hit a "real problem" over the issue of the Irish border, government sources have warned.

Ahead of a key summit, the EU is believed to be seeking further reassurances to prevent a so-called hard border involving physical checks.

Hopes of a breakthrough were raised when the Brexit secretary made an unscheduled trip to Brussels on Sunday.

But talks faltered over the need for a back-up plan - known as the backstop - to avoid a hard border.

UK Prime Minister Theresa May has insisted any backstop arrangement should apply to the UK as a whole to avoid creating a new border in the Irish Sea.

But Sunday's talks had broken down after the EU had insisted on a second backstop arrangement - just involving Northern Ireland - if the UK's version wasn't ready in time, Downing Street sources indicated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45859282

Mad, I apologize for my ignorance, but please educate me on the Irish border issue.  Who is more scared of a hard border going into effect?  The EU or the UK?  It sounds to me like the EU is more worried about it.  My question is:  Why?  I can't imagine it's really that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things involving the whole of the UK leaving the trade union.  Would there really be a problem with unregulated trade occurring across that border that would hurt the rest of the EU?  Or is it just the principle of it at this point?  Its not like there are massive amounts of trade there anyway.  

And what if the UK just ignored it and didn't erect a border after the hard brexit occurs?  What would happen that day after that was different than the day before?  Personally, I think the UK just just ignore the hard border issue and if the EU put up a wall, the EU themselves would take the brunt of the blame for any hardships it caused, not the UK.  Let the EU be the bad guys on this issue.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's the stupidest thing I've read here today.  But its still early.....

It’s a joke Jeff. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, mad said:

It’s a joke Jeff. 

Yeah, I got that.  But it still seems to correctly capture most of the sentiment of the anti-brexiteer expats over here.  Talk about sour grapes.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, mad said:

:P

Just a bunch of misguided morons grasping at any straw they can, they just haven't realised (still) that we need to comply with EU rules to continue trading.

Again, another likely ignorant question - but what do you mean by "comply with EU rules" to continue trading???  My understanding is there are a huge host of internal EU rules and regulations covering everything from internal social rules, courts, immigration, budget and finance, etc etc that apply to trading within the common EU trade agreement.  I get that.  But many country outside that framework from all over the world "Trade" with the EU without having to comply with those rules.  Correct?  The US, AUS, India, China, Japan, S. Korea, etc all trade with the EU and are not bound to the same rule set as internal EU countries are.  Why cannot the UK simply become another outside trader with the EU and be treated the same as say the US or Japan?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yeah, I got that.  But it still seems to correctly capture most of the sentiment of the anti-brexiteer expats over here.  Talk about sour grapes.....

There’s quite a lot to be sour about. A bunch of old cunts that have happily retired and receiving their pension have decided to fuck about with their kids future. 

Theyll mostly be fine as everything is in place for them, it’s the rest that’s going to have sort the fucking mess out. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, mad said:

Thanks.  That's interesting, but didn't really fully answer my question.  The writer still assumes the audience understands WHY there is a need for a hard border backstop by the EU.  I still don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yeah, I got that.  But it still seems to correctly capture most of the sentiment of the anti-brexiteer expats over here.  Talk about sour grapes.....

Have to laugh at the irony of the ex-pats complaining about it. 

I know of one that wanted to vote leave, but wasn’t eligible to vote as he was overseas. Now he’s crying about his pension payments being locked up in the EU where he was working and the fact that he might have to get a visa etc to go back to work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, mad said:

FE0B79A8-5BB4-4819-B4CB-8C5D110EBA1A.jpeg

Mad, I know this is a joke - but honestly it carries a thread of truth about what the anti-brexiteers are really pissed about.  Yourself included.  The underlying current is that the leave vote was wrong because it was mostly old people who voted leave but they fucked with their kids' futures and that it was just SO UNFAIR!

But you could apply that to pretty much everything in politics.  What's the average age of Parliament?  Or of the US congress?  Pretty much every decision they make affects the future of the country and many of those things will not be potentially realized until they are out of office or dead.  So maybe we should have a cap on being a politician and/or a voter at say 35.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Thanks.  That's interesting, but didn't really fully answer my question.  The writer still assumes the audience understands WHY there is a need for a hard border backstop by the EU.  I still don't.

I’ll have a dig around and see if I can the legal reason behind it. 

I think it’s along the lines of ‘your either in the EU and have seem less borders, if not then there has to be hard border’

The Irish leader has mentioned (maybe in jest) that they may consider legalising cannabis, I can just imagine that flowing happily over the border. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, mad said:

I’ll have a dig around and see if I can the legal reason behind it. 

I think it’s along the lines of ‘your either in the EU and have seem less borders, if not then there has to be hard border’

The Irish leader has mentioned (maybe in jest) that they may consider legalising cannabis, I can just imagine that flowing happily over the border. 

Thanks!

Edit to add:  It seems the UK (inc. N Ireland) and Ireland are already outside the Schengen area.  So therefore my understanding is you still need a Passport to cross into that area.  So why need a hard border when it seems like there is already a de facto border in place already???

20180223PHT98530_original.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, mad said:

I’ll have a dig around and see if I can the legal reason behind it. 

I think it’s along the lines of ‘your either in the EU and have seem less borders, if not then there has to be hard border’

The Irish leader has mentioned (maybe in jest) that they may consider legalising cannabis, I can just imagine that flowing happily over the border. 

Yeah but that's the *EU* problem.

What could they actually do if the UK said fuck it, we're not having a border between NI and the south part? It's not our problem, we're happy with trade to go across the border. YOU deal with it.

Honestly that'd have to be a treally tempting position to take. Make the border an Ireland/EU problem.

FKT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah but that's the *EU* problem.

What could they actually do if the UK said fuck it, we're not having a border between NI and the south part? It's not our problem, we're happy with trade to go across the border. YOU deal with it.

Honestly that'd have to be a treally tempting position to take. Make the border an Ireland/EU problem.

FKT

If copious amounts of cannabis and other items start coming in, it might become the UKs problem as well. 

Have to admit, telling them to deal with it sounds very appealing, though I’m sure there’d be payback somewhere else for that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Black Sox said:

Now I'm confused. Lark, are you talking about Northern Ireland leaving Britain and joining the EU in their own right? Or becoming part of Ireland and staying in the EU?

I thought joining the EU in their own right would be more likely to get the Irish Protestant vote since it would be more a vote for status quo, less of an identity change.   Northern Ireland voted 56% against Brexit and by demographics more of the Brexit supporters have likely died.   Suddenly installing a real boarder will surely have a significant negative affect.   

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Lark said:
5 hours ago, Black Sox said:

Now I'm confused. Lark, are you talking about Northern Ireland leaving Britain and joining the EU in their own right? Or becoming part of Ireland and staying in the EU?

I thought joining the EU in their own right would be more likely to get the Irish Protestant vote since it would be more a vote for status quo, less of an identity change.   Northern Ireland voted 56% against Brexit and by demographics more of the Brexit supporters have likely died.   Suddenly installing a real boarder will surely have a significant negative affect.  

The reason that NI can't stay in the EU after Brexit is because NI is part of the UK, and the UK as a whole voted to leave the EU.

To stay in the EU, NI would have to leave the UK and either become part of IRL or a state in its own right. The DUP doesn't want NI to leave the UK and at the moment the DUP is providing support to the UK government.

On the border issue - as I understand it, after Brexit, there will need to be controls on people and goods transiting between the EU and non-EU. Once the UK, including NI, leaves the EU, that means controls between IRL and NI which, in turn, means a "hard" border on the island of Ireland.

It's a conundrum/stalemate/impossibility.

 

My €0.02

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Black Sox said:

The reason that NI can't stay in the EU after Brexit is because NI is part of the UK, and the UK as a whole voted to leave the EU.

To stay in the EU, NI would have to leave the UK and either become part of IRL or a state in its own right. The DUP doesn't want NI to leave the UK and at the moment the DUP is providing support to the UK government.

On the border issue - as I understand it, after Brexit, there will need to be controls on people and goods transiting between the EU and non-EU. Once the UK, including NI, leaves the EU, that means controls between IRL and NI which, in turn, means a "hard" border on the island of Ireland.

It's a conundrum/stalemate/impossibility.

 

My €0.02

 

Well said. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagine if New Mexico decided they had unrestricted immigration from Mexico. New Mexico residents pass into the rest of the USA with no checks at a border. The only way to keep Mexicans from entering the USA at will would be to fence off New Mexico, which would piss them off to say the least.

* EDIT - If Northern Ireland residents had half a brain and could cut the ancient feud shit out, they could join Ireland and the EU and work hard to suck the entire London financial industry over. Lots of money to be had ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

5 hours ago, mad said:

If copious amounts of cannabis and other items start coming in, it might become the UKs problem as well. 

Have to admit, telling them to deal with it sounds very appealing, though I’m sure there’d be payback somewhere else for that. 

I'm trying to understand how brexit without brexit could become the EUs problem alone, much less if you don't want control over border policy - one of the reasons to leave - why are you leaving?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The UK could do absolutely nothing, in which case anyone wanting to circumvent EU/UK customs and immigration can march right through Ireland. Which entity tries to build a fence/wall first depends on who cares the most. I am betting Ireland has NO interest in doing this and would object strongly to the EU imposing it, so it will likely be down to the UK to do so and thus earn themselves a heap of trouble.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Imagine if New Mexico decided they had unrestricted immigration from Mexico. New Mexico residents pass into the rest of the USA with no checks at a border. The only way to keep Mexicans from entering the USA at will would be to fence off New Mexico, which would piss them off to say the least.

* EDIT - If Northern Ireland residents had half a brain and could cut the ancient feud shit out, they could join Ireland and the EU and work hard to suck the entire London financial industry over. Lots of money to be had ;)

Nice analogy. would that create a Mexican Stand-Off???

To your second point, I gather that, while many financial services entities are leaving London, not many are coming to IRL, opting for Frankfurt, Paris, etc. instead. Because why? Because housing is so fucking expensive in Dublin. I shit you not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites