mad

Brexit, and all it entails

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On 10/16/2018 at 1:26 PM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Yeah but that's the *EU* problem.

What could they actually do if the UK said fuck it, we're not having a border between NI and the south part? It's not our problem, we're happy with trade to go across the border. YOU deal with it.

Honestly that'd have to be a treally tempting position to take. Make the border an Ireland/EU problem.

FKT

I already said that exact thing in post #368

On 10/16/2018 at 11:16 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

And what if the UK just ignored it and didn't erect a border after the hard brexit occurs?  What would happen that day after that was different than the day before?  Personally, I think the UK just just ignore the hard border issue and if the EU put up a wall, the EU themselves would take the brunt of the blame for any hardships it caused, not the UK.  Let the EU be the bad guys on this issue.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I already said that exact thing in post #368

 

You still cant' wrap your head that the UK needs the preferential access they have to the EU to be price and time competitive do you? See, statements from people with real world experience: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/04/nissan-becomes-latest-manufacturer-to-warn-against-hard-brexit The UK wants this shit for a reason, the EU has little incentive to give in.

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I already said that exact thing in post #368

 

It has the potential to spark the sectarian violence up again, along with a profitable smuggling racket. Absolutely the last thing needed is to resurrect the borders again. 

The EU may negotiate slightly on this, but retribution will be taken elsewhere. 

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Quote

Russia is among 20 countries that are looking to squeeze a commercial advantage from Brexit after blocking an attempt by the international trade secretary, Liam Fox, to fast-track a World Trade Organization deal on the UK’s terms of trade with the world.

Whitehall is now facing “up to two dozen” different negotiations with countries over how much meat and dairy produce will be permitted into the British market and what tariffs the UK will set on imports.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/26/russia-brexit-liam-fox-wto-plan-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

 

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3 weeks to go... deal is in the making according to Raab, said that before. It is terrible quiet in the media over here, the talks must be constructive, or totally irrelevant :)

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We’ve just had a budget announcement, so they’re busy being slightly slayed for that. 

The silence from our side is probably panic finally setting in.

 I wonder what would happen if we had no deal and we just tried to carry on as before with most of it?  Because that’s basically what most (not all by any means) people would be happy to deal with.  Those that are having second thoughts would be happy and don’t lose face, the remain side don’t lose as much as they thought, even the Brexit lot get a tick in the box, blue passports again and a shiny 50 pence coin  :P

Would all the EU countries suddenly start border controls on all freight movements? New immigration at the airports and tunnel etc? 

Just a slightly drunken idea, 

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40 minutes ago, mad said:

We’ve just had a budget announcement, so they’re busy being slightly slayed for that. 

The silence from our side is probably panic finally setting in.

 I wonder what would happen if we had no deal and we just tried to carry on as before with most of it?  Because that’s basically what most (not all by any means) people would be happy to deal with.  Those that are having second thoughts would be happy and don’t lose face, the remain side don’t lose as much as they thought, even the Brexit lot get a tick in the box, blue passports again and a shiny 50 pence coin  :P

Would all the EU countries suddenly start border controls on all freight movements? New immigration at the airports and tunnel etc? 

Just a slightly drunken idea, 

No more whacked out an idea than Brexit was. They must have been really drunk when they came up with that one.

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19 hours ago, mad said:

Would all the EU countries suddenly start border controls on all freight movements? New immigration at the airports and tunnel etc?  

Just a slightly drunken idea, 

Yep, freight from Eu mainland to Ireland will be fucked as in the past it went through the Uk, should now be double taxed as there is no deal.
Freight to the UK, for the first years long waiting lines at the border till there is a preference schedule or something like that in place for regular traders.
 

People will be lucky if the Uk will get a visa exempt status an roll into etias;
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document.html?reference=EPRS_BRI(2017)599298

But will take a few years to sort out. In the meanwhile, queue with all other visa travellers, better yet, first go to the embassy of France, Spain whatever and arrange your visa :)

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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/02/theresa-may-arron-banks-leave-eu-campaign-investigation

Quote

A Labour MP has asked Theresa Maywhether she or any other minister had ever declined a request from the security services to conduct an investigation into the controversial Leave.EU campaign donor Arron Banks.

 

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Hundreds of internal emails leaked by former employees from Eldon Insurance and Rock Services to the Observer reveal that – despite categorical denials by Banks – insurance staff worked on the Leave.EU campaign from their company offices.

Threats, bullying, vindictiveness: how Arron Banks repels charges against him| Carole Cadwalladr

Any work carried out in the months before the referendum should have been declared under electoral law.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/03/arron-banks-faces-new-claims-of-misleading-mps-over-brexit?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

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On 11/2/2018 at 7:53 AM, LeoV said:

Yep, freight from Eu mainland to Ireland will be fucked as in the past it went through the Uk, should now be double taxed as there is no deal.
Freight to the UK, for the first years long waiting lines at the border till there is a preference schedule or something like that in place for regular traders.
 

People will be lucky if the Uk will get a visa exempt status an roll into etias;
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/en/document.html?reference=EPRS_BRI(2017)599298

But will take a few years to sort out. In the meanwhile, queue with all other visa travellers, better yet, first go to the embassy of France, Spain whatever and arrange your visa :)

I can see the possible problem with visas and queuing at the border. But wouldn’t the same shit happen to any Euro person as well. Seems everyone only talks about the shitfight in the UK. But the same shit will affect Europeans and European companies. Both sides seem to have a lot to lose if they are not willing to act like adults. 

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50 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I can see the possible problem with visas and queuing at the border. But wouldn’t the same shit happen to any Euro person as well. Seems everyone only talks about the shitfight in the UK. But the same shit will affect Europeans and European companies. Both sides seem to have a lot to lose if they are not willing to act like adults. 

Already mentioned it earlier, but I wonder if it’s beneficial for both sides will we just end up with something pretty close to what we already have? The transition period will get extended and tied up in paperwork for years, eventually everyone gets so fucked off with it all and we just start to ignore the elephant in the room and figure out what works....... a little like it does now. 

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58 minutes ago, mad said:
1 hour ago, Gissie said:

I can see the possible problem with visas and queuing at the border. But wouldn’t the same shit happen to any Euro person as well. Seems everyone only talks about the shitfight in the UK. But the same shit will affect Europeans and European companies. Both sides seem to have a lot to lose if they are not willing to act like adults. 

Already mentioned it earlier, but I wonder if it’s beneficial for both sides will we just end up with something pretty close to what we already have? The transition period will get extended and tied up in paperwork for years, eventually everyone gets so fucked off with it all and we just start to ignore the elephant in the room and figure out what works....... a little like it does now. 

What Mad said, possibly with a reversal referendum thrown in, just to formalise it.

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7 hours ago, Black Sox said:

What Mad said, possibly with a reversal referendum thrown in, just to formalise it.

My understanding was that once the leave was triggered there is no easy way back in. It would need the other EU countries to change the rules. Which while possible, if I was one of those countries, I would want to fuck the UK up somewhat at the same time. 

Unfortunately the infighting by both sides, remain and leave, has made the UK look weak and ready for a good arse reaming. Partly to stop anyone else trying to leave, but also because it is the UK. And who doesn’t want to stick it to them. Or the French. 

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4 hours ago, Gissie said:
12 hours ago, Black Sox said:

What Mad said, possibly with a reversal referendum thrown in, just to formalise it.

My understanding was that once the leave was triggered there is no easy way back in. It would need the other EU countries to change the rules. Which while possible, if I was one of those countries, I would want to fuck the UK up somewhat at the same time. 

Unfortunately the infighting by both sides, remain and leave, has made the UK look weak and ready for a good arse reaming. Partly to stop anyone else trying to leave, but also because it is the UK. And who doesn’t want to stick it to them. Or the French. 

If, and it's a huge if, Britain somehow changed their position and said they wanted to remain in the EU, I suspect that the civil servants, politicians, diplomats in the EU and Britain would work night and day to find a way to make it work. As you say, there would probably be some point-scoring and needling but I think they would ALL be relieved.

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It’ll be interesting where the investigation into the funding and the possible efforts to thwart that investigation lead!! 

What happens if they prove illegal meddling in the whole process? 

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More from a legal point of view for the people that carried it out was my question.  This whole process has cost a fucking shitload of money, if half of it has been caused or made worse because of illegal behaviour, then some fuckers deserve some prison time! 

Yes I know, it won’t ever happen. 

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I'll be in England next July and August.  I'm guessing I'll still be able to buy fish and chips and get a proper pint of beer instead of something close in milliliters.

 

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8 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

I'll be in England next July and August.  I'm guessing I'll still be able to buy fish and chips and get a proper pint of beer instead of something close in milliliters.

 

Have you looked on the shelf of US grocery stores?

-DSK

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2 minutes ago, VOA said:
24 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Have you looked on the shelf of US grocery stores?

It's been a good while but I didn't see a proper chippy the whole time I was there. They have a chippy in Wallmart now or summink? 

I dunno wot you'd call a "proper chippy" personally that phrase makes me think of a certain type of girl. Sometimes you see them grocery stores, yes.

But as to Saorsa's complaint about the commie-inspired metric system, pretty much everything in the US is metric too. But you have to be paying attention to notice stuff like that.

-DSK

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57 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

I'll be in England next July and August.  I'm guessing I'll still be able to buy fish and chips and get a proper pint of beer instead of something close in milliliters.

 

How would you even know what a proper pint is? Your measurement system couldn’t even get that right using the same units. 

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19 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

he'll complain the beer in his proper pint is warm.

Only by drinking it, he won’t understand what numbers mean in Centigrade. :)

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Read the title of the thread numbskull, it’s a bit of a giveaway. 

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3 hours ago, mad said:

How would you even know what a proper pint is? Your measurement system couldn’t even get that right using the same units. 

I spent ten years in the UK and was one of the early members of CAMRA.

 

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno wot you'd call a "proper chippy" personally that phrase makes me think of a certain type of girl. Sometimes you see them grocery stores, yes.

But as to Saorsa's complaint about the commie-inspired metric system, pretty much everything in the US is metric too. But you have to be paying attention to notice stuff like that.

-DSK

That's not true.  I still by meat and produce in pounds.  I just checked a can of vegetables.  It said 14.5 oz, 411 grams.  The 14.5 came about when the 1 pound cans were reduced about 10% and rounded to .5.

I have noticed that sugar once sold in 5 pound bags now sell at a  weight 4 pounds.

A 20oz soda shows up as 1.25 pints or 501 ML.

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1 minute ago, Saorsa said:

That's not true.  I still by meat and produce in pounds.  I just checked a can of vegetables.  It said 14.5 oz, 411 grams.  The 14.5 came about when the 1 pound cans were reduced about 10% and rounded to .5.

I have noticed that sugar once sold in 5 pound bags now sell at a  weight 4 pounds.

A 20oz soda shows up as 1.25 pints or 501 ML.

I rest my case :lol:

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10 hours ago, Gissie said:

Unfortunately the infighting by both sides, remain and leave, has made the UK look weak and ready for a good arse reaming. Partly to stop anyone else trying to leave,

I keep hearing this over and over that a lot of Brussel's desire to prevent a fair deal is about deterring others from doing a runner as well. 

But it also occurs to me that mayhaps the EU itself is not such a great thing if they fear rats leaving a sinking ship once one goes.  Is it really that good of a "Union" if they have to keep member states in through threats and intimidation?  I suspect the foundation of the EU itself is a lot more fragile than anyone wants to let on.

If you love someone, set them free....

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11 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I keep hearing this over and over that a lot of Brussel's desire to prevent a fair deal is about deterring others from doing a runner as well. 

Play different songs, then maybe you will hear something new. And get some new brains too.
Oh, and the Eu is already  making invasion plans for the UK, the fifth colon already in action.
 

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27 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Play different songs, then maybe you will hear something new. And get some new brains too.
Oh, and the Eu is already  making invasion plans for the UK, the fifth colon already in action.
 

"5th Colon"???

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

Play different songs, then maybe you will hear something new. And get some new brains too.
Oh, and the Eu is already  making invasion plans for the UK, the fifth colon already in action.
 

Ooooohhhh!!!! That sounds nasty! 

Guess we’re really in the shit. 

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Sorry, but every time I see the thread title I keep reading:

”Brexit and all its entrails”.......

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2 hours ago, Sidecar said:

Sorry, but every time I see the thread title I keep reading:

”Brexit and all its entrails”.......

Would have made a better title, can I use that for part 2? :P

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I think "Briton can not possibly survive without Brussels oversight" would have been a better title. So what if they were the world's superpower before Churchill took the helm. 

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27 minutes ago, Mickey Rat said:

I think "Briton can not possibly survive without Brussels oversight" would have been a better title. So what if they were the world's superpower before Churchill took the helm. 

Much could be said about the US. :)

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12 hours ago, mad said:

Would have made a better title, can I use that for part 2? :P

You’re welcome.......

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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-dominic-raab-trade-eu-france-calais-dover-economy-finance-deal-a8624036.html

Quote

Dominic Raab has been ridiculed after saying he “hadn’t quite understood” the importance of cross-Channel trade to the UK economy.

The extraordinary admission came as the Brexit secretary also warned shoppers to expect less choice of goods if leaving the EU damages the trade route from France.

 

Speaking at an event for tech firms, Mr Raab said Theresa May was pursuing a future trade deal that recognised the “peculiar geographic economic entity” of the UK, as an island nation

We are truly fucking doomed with these clowns in charge. 

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26 minutes ago, mad said:

Some circus somewhere is having a clown shortage, seems enough ran off from the circus to join the government to screw up two countries :o

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It is unbelievable that the Uk negotiators have to propose plans knowing they will have problems with the parliament or the house to get approval.How the fuck do you make a deal that way. The Uk is so divided... and played not very well on the table, asking a lot (free trade) with not much in return.And in the Eu a few counties can block it too, but there is more room for deals there.

The Uk and Eu negotiations went on till 2.45 this morning. So at least they are trying.
Talks in in the Eu states that having a deal is more about the Uk making up their mind and stop the infighting, then that there is a problem making a deal.
The Backstop is crucial.. no deal on that, hard brexit, no trade deal possible.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-politics-44615404

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On 11/13/2018 at 5:36 PM, LeoV said:

So there is a deal, curious how many mp will resign...

Well many were already outraged about the deal they hadn’t even seen yet so...

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If this deal gets voted for, it bought 2 extra years of talks.
But its a step in the right direction...

When is the Uk paying the  "financial settlement" from the UK, thought to be about £39bn ? That would be hard to take.

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On 11/5/2018 at 3:49 AM, Mickey Rat said:

I think "Briton can not possibly survive without Brussels oversight" would have been a better title. So what if they were the world's superpower before Churchill took the helm. 

Which Briton?

 

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And a deal that leaves no side happy. 

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Talked to the guy I am watching this for, his reply, good, 2 years more non restricted trade with the Uk.

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Ouch;
Union citizens and United Kingdom nationals, and their respective family members, who
have resided legally in the host State in accordance with Union law for a continuous period of
5 years or for the period specified in Article 17 of Directive 2004/38/EC, shall have the right to
reside permanently in the host State under the conditions set out in Articles 16, 17 and 18 of
Directive 2004/38/EC. Periods of legal residence or work in accordance with Union law before and
after the end of the transition period shall be included in the calculation of the qualifying period
necessary for acquisition of the right of permanent residence.

 

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Trademarks and IPO covered too, as expected.

For the rest I glanced, damn so many details like Gibraltar, medicines, prisoners, access to medical files etc...
If Brex does an exit, it will have to hire a lot of civil workers to deal with al this, paperwork, customs, safety guards, police etc.
Really, any exporter (like my friend) to the Uk will jump on any possibility to change their market to an Eu one.
Much easier and no Pound Euro exchange risks.

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5 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Which Briton?

 

 

I'm not sure, I'll have to look it up. Oh, here it is: The Britons, also known as Celtic Britons or Ancient Britons, were Celtic people who inhabited Great Britain from the British Iron Age into the Middle Ages. So yeah, I think they can manage. B)

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Hey Mad or other Brits..... what's the likely outcome of a "Hard Brexit"??  My understanding is that is a No Deal exit.  Is the UK completely locked out of the EU market for good?  Or would they then have to negotiate individual trade deals?  I know (I think) that the UK cannot negotiate with individual euro countries for trade, as that would have to go through Brussels.  But would the EU really completely cut them off from any trade?  

I guess I just understand why the UK and the EU can just work out a side deal and maybe "downgrade" the UK's membership to something like Switzerland or Norway, but who have EU like trade deals?  Is it purely a punitive thing by the EU at this point?

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Raab gone, that is quick and weird.
In his resignation letter,

1 Mr Raab said he could not support it because the regulatory regime proposed for Northern Ireland "presents a very real threat to the integrity of the United Kingdom".
2 And, he added, the "backstop" arrangements aimed at preventing the return of a hard Irish border would result in the EU "holding a veto over our ability to exit".
3 "Above all, I cannot reconcile the terms of the proposed deal with the promises we made to the country in our manifesto at the last election," he told the prime minister.

McVey gone too.

 

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Hard Brexit it is, then!  :o

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Probably, May needs to many votes outside her coalition in parliament, but you never know.
Now it is a choice between no deal or this deal (if May still stands in a few months or hours) and not doing Brexit (possible with new election and very iffy, like a couple who stays together for the kids).
It is crazy that the Brexit mp quits over the deal he made. Why did he not resign earlier ? The contents of the deal are no surprise, it is weird.

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7 hours ago, LeoV said:

Probably, May needs to many votes outside her coalition in parliament, but you never know.
Now it is a choice between no deal or this deal (if May still stands in a few months or hours) and not doing Brexit (possible with new election and very iffy, like a couple who stays together for the kids).
It is crazy that the Brexit mp quits over the deal he made. Why did he not resign earlier ? The contents of the deal are no surprise, it is weird.

Rats deserting the sinking ship and desperately trying to save their political careers is my take. 

 

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12 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I guess I just understand why the UK and the EU can just work out a side deal and maybe "downgrade" the UK's membership to something like Switzerland or Norway, but who have EU like trade deals?  Is it purely a punitive thing by the EU at this point?

That's pretty much the deal that was just negotiated.

The one that's getting shot down because there's more short term political gain pitching Brexit fantasy it appears.

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12 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Hey Mad or other Brits..... what's the likely outcome of a "Hard Brexit"??  My understanding is that is a No Deal exit.  Is the UK completely locked out of the EU market for good?  Or would they then have to negotiate individual trade deals?  I know (I think) that the UK cannot negotiate with individual euro countries for trade, as that would have to go through Brussels.  But would the EU really completely cut them off from any trade?  

I guess I just understand why the UK and the EU can just work out a side deal and maybe "downgrade" the UK's membership to something like Switzerland or Norway, but who have EU like trade deals?  Is it purely a punitive thing by the EU at this point?

There’s definitely some punitive action from the EU, but who can blame them. If you want to be in the club, you have to pay your dues and abide by the rules. 

No way were we ever going to getter a better deal by leaving, unfortunately, a slim majority believed the hype and fell for it. Though just about both sides are united now with their dislike of this  outcome. 

The Italians seem to be quite happy to push through their budget against the wishes of the EU and look like they’ll just flick the finger at the EU and carry on. 

Which is exactly what we should have done at times we didn’t agree. You can’t storm out of a party and then spend time banging on the window screaming at those inside, they don’t give a shit! 

By the same token, I’m fairly sure there’d have to be a lot of negotiation after a so called no-deal. There’s still going to be trade and there will be many that don’t want to see that go away. 

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In the short term, watch out for them getting it through parliament and possibly a leadership battle (though I doubt any of the whiny fucks have got an idea or the balls to takeover) 

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33 minutes ago, mad said:

The Italians seem to be quite happy to push through their budget against the wishes of the EU and look like they’ll just flick the finger at the EU and carry on. 

 

Greece seems to be doing pretty much the same.

Why bother if nobody plays by the rules?

What is less certain, however, is whether the EU has learned anything from the past eight years. A year ago, the European commissioner for economic affairs, Pierre Moscovici, admitted that the decisions made behind closed doors regarding the Greek bailout were a scandal of democratic process.

The lack of transparency and the imposition of austerity as the only solution for the southern European countries hit by the financial crisis since 2008, at a time when other countries like Germany continued to prosper, has cast doubts on the entire European project. Ever since then, Euroscepticism has been spreading and can be seen as a contributing factor behind Brexit and the rapid ascendency to power of a number of nationalistic, xenophobic far-right parties across the continent.

For those of us who still believe in a social Europe, the real patient is the EU and the eurozone – a new treatment is urgently needed.

 

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5 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Greece seems to be doing pretty much the same.

Why bother if nobody plays by the rules?

 

 

Exactly, should have stayed, reaped the benefits and stuck a finger up every now and again when we didn’t something. 

Successive governments have completely missed out on playing the game and extracting maximum benefit. 

Its fucking pathetic. 

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This was/is the best deal on the table. From the Eu side small things can change, but not the basics.
Funny was that members of parliament already were against it before they had any knowledge of the deal as it was not published yet. Shows you politics takes over pragmatism. Some just want to have a no deal situation. And shouting that it is against democracy while they do not care about that... it is really disgusting to watch. Its a divorce were the parents do not care about the children.

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2 minutes ago, LeoV said:

This was/is the best deal on the table. From the Eu side small things can change, but not the basics.
Funny was that members of parliament already were against it before they had any knowledge of the deal as it was not published yet. Shows you politics takes over pragmatism. Some just want to have a no deal situation. And shouting that it is against democracy while they do not care about that... it is really disgusting to watch. Its a divorce were the parents do not care about the children.

^^^^^

this is as good as it’s going to get, Hopefully a few calmer heads will prevail when it comes to voting it through. Though at the last count, she needs full support and 47 more votes!! 

Dont hold your breath on this happening, the childish petulance and petty point scoring is in full flow. 

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Yep, so this deal will get downvoted, 29 March no deal Brexit looms.
 

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For those closer to the action, is NI the big problem. Seems from here that the EU worked out this was the soft spot to focus on and give no quarter. Everything else was solvable, but Ireland was an unsolvable cluster fuck, as usual, and the EU knew it. 

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On 11/12/2018 at 10:49 PM, mad said:

 

11 hours ago, LeoV said:

Raab gone, that is quick and weird.
In his resignation letter,

1 Mr Raab said he could not support it because the regulatory regime proposed for Northern Ireland "presents a very real threat to the integrity of the United Kingdom".
2 And, he added, the "backstop" arrangements aimed at preventing the return of a hard Irish border would result in the EU "holding a veto over our ability to exit".
3 "Above all, I cannot reconcile the terms of the proposed deal with the promises we made to the country in our manifesto at the last election," he told the prime minister.

McVey gone too.

 

And you wonder why’s he gone??

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

For those closer to the action, is NI the big problem. Seems from here that the EU worked out this was the soft spot to focus on and give no quarter. Everything else was solvable, but Ireland was an unsolvable cluster fuck, as usual, and the EU knew it. 

It is a very major issue, along with the whole potential import and export border controls. That could cause all sorts of issues with food supply etc  

The biggest issue is going to be potentially watch the political system tear itself apart to pieces over there own power fight. 

Combine the 2 and it’s not a great thought. 

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

For those closer to the action, is NI the big problem. Seems from here that the EU worked out this was the soft spot to focus on and give no quarter. Everything else was solvable, but Ireland was an unsolvable cluster fuck, as usual, and the EU knew it. 

The British government is in coalition with NI politicians.  Without a deal that is acceptable to those politicians,  no May government. ....

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This proposal worked out to be for 2 yrs a non control border with trade flowing freely. A mayor concession for Eu to give. Never expected that. NI staying in the Eu. That is what makes hard Brexiteers so angry, it gives Eu still power in NI as it has to agree with Eu laws (as if any deal let the UK trade without following EU trade rules/standards)
Scotland is furious too, why NI gets a special treatment and why not Scotland too.

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Will she hold her job?

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49 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

The British government is was in coalition with NI politicians.  Without a deal that is acceptable to those politicians,  no May government. ....

FIFY

thats just disappeared out the window.  

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47 minutes ago, LeoV said:

This proposal worked out to be for 2 yrs a non control border with trade flowing freely. A mayor concession for Eu to give. Never expected that. NI staying in the Eu. That is what makes hard Brexiteers so angry, it gives Eu still power in NI as it has to agree with Eu laws (as if any deal let the UK trade without following EU trade rules/standards)
Scotland is furious too, why NI gets a special treatment and why not Scotland too.

It’s got the potential to split the country even further, and in a radical way. I might move to NI. 

You don’t need to start a war, just enough to get a country to tear itself apart. 

But I doubt it’s going to be voted for. 

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8 minutes ago, mad said:

It’s got the potential to split the country even further, and in a radical way. I might move to NI. 

You don’t need to start a war, just enough to get a country to tear itself apart. 

But I doubt it’s going to be voted for. 

That’s the brilliance of Putin. He hamstrung both his major foes and didn’t have to fire a shot.

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21 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

That’s the brilliance of Putin. He hamstrung both his major foes and didn’t have to fire a shot.

There are some very concerning coincidences with the background and the people involved in both. Which almost certainly means they’re not coincidence. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

There are some very concerning coincidences with the background and the people involved in both. Which almost certainly means they’re not coincidence. 

Like that slimeball Farage.

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On 6/20/2018 at 2:58 PM, mad said:

Image result for trump, farage, banks photograph

 

Anybody really believe there's no connection??

 

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2 hours ago, mad said:

It is a very major issue, along with the whole potential import and export border controls. That could cause all sorts of issues with food supply etc  

The biggest issue is going to be potentially watch the political system tear itself apart to pieces over there own power fight. 

Combine the 2 and it’s not a great thought. 

Just find the whole I/NI thing weird. In theory they are different countries but are willing to fight to keep a free border and act like the same country. Looks like the EU really worked this point well, for them. Of course expecting Ireland problems to be solved this era are silly. 

As for tearing themselves apart, this is happening. The good part is Corbyn is such a dick he hasn’t been able to capitalise on the clusterfuck. The bad part is he is such a dick and he may get in. 

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10 hours ago, Gissie said:

Just find the whole I/NI thing weird. In theory they are different countries but are willing to fight to keep a free border and act like the same country. Looks like the EU really worked this point well, for them. Of course expecting Ireland problems to be solved this era are silly. 

As for tearing themselves apart, this is happening. The good part is Corbyn is such a dick he hasn’t been able to capitalise on the clusterfuck. The bad part is he is such a dick and he may get in. 

Putting a hard border back in place could well launch the whole sectarian issue again, people happily go back and forth for work and trade.  This was the premise of being in the EU and nobody really wants a hard border in place there.

Corbyn has done fuck all apart from sit on the fence throughout the whole process, he's an embarrassment, but then again most of them are.  

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Trying to understand the NI/I question hurts my head. The whole Good Friday Agreement and the rights mentioned in it are Eu law based. So its more then a border control, it goes way deeper, basic rights.And who decides them.

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3 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Trying to understand the NI/I question hurts my head. The whole Good Friday Agreement and the rights mentioned in it are Eu law based. So its more then a border control, it goes way deeper, basic rights.And who decides them.

Nobody wants to go down in history as the person responsible for repealing the Good Friday agreement!  

This and so many other subjects were never mentioned or considered before the vote, we walked into it almost blind.  

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