mad

Brexit, and all it entails

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If labour wants to fuck up the Tories they should vote for May's plan.

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Corbyn has stated that labour will vote against along with the DUP, May had lost the majority the minute the DUP went against it all. 

I getting the feeling we could end up with another general election, based maybe on an in or out referendum style party vote, though there was talk about there being no way back anyway. 

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Could be if Corbyn can not whip his party in line.

Thought time is running out for elections etc, D,J,F and March, 4 months...

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3 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Could be if Corbyn can not whip his party in line.

Thought time is running out for elections etc, D,J,F and March, 4 months...

Corbyn couldn’t drag his disorganised arse of the fence and lead if his life depended on it. Anybody’s guess what happens next. 

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It might happen, but I’m not taking any bets anymore. 

It’s basically a poison chalice, nobody wants to lead for or against anymore. 

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12 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Is there any precedent for undermining a referendum?

I always thought a referendum was legally binding?

Until the next referendum?

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6 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

A referendum on a referendum?  That's a conundrum!

A repetitive redundant referendum conundrum?

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16 hours ago, LeoV said:

Yep, its only a deal about the split, will go on for years and years about future trade deals. Actually it will never stop, or only with a very hard brexit with involves no trade, no movement over borders, in short a wall between UK and Europe :) Mexico will pay for it. And even then the fisherman will fight wars...

When is the parliament vote ? The hardline brexiteers must be hoping on this one.

PS I laughed about the BOB's .

11th or 12th of December are being mentioned. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46337053

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14 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Is there any precedent for undermining a referendum?

I always thought a referendum was legally binding?

Quote

Referendums are not legally binding, so legally the Government can ignore the results; for example, even if the result of a pre-legislative referendum were a majority of "No" for a proposed law, Parliament could pass it anyway, because parliament is sovereign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_in_the_United_Kingdom

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This infovideo explains everything.   

 

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16 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Different to Australia.

Referendums are defined in our Constitution.

What you call a referendum,  we would probably call a plebiscite.

 

Many of us would call it a f*cking disaster...

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41 minutes ago, The Main Man said:

Many of us would call it a f*cking disaster...

And it’s far from over! A fuck up of truly epic proportions. 

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25 minutes ago, LeoV said:

 This isn’t going to stop, no matter what the outcome is. We don’t have the resources to stop it! 

I wonder much assistance there will be from France and Holland etc to slow this down? 

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Just around my house, every day refugees on the way to the UK, trying to sneak in lorries going to Rotterdam hoping to enter one that goes to the UK.
Every week arrests. Its unstoppable. Lots of Albanians for some reason.
Why do they want to go to the UK ? Because its the easiest country to earn money in the black circuit ?
?appId=21791a8992982cd8da851550a453bd7f&

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21 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Just around my house, every day refugees on the way to the UK, trying to sneak in lorries going to Rotterdam hoping to enter one that goes to the UK.
Every week arrests. Its unstoppable. Lots of Albanians for some reason.
Why do they want to go to the UK ? Because its the easiest country to earn money in the black circuit ?
?appId=21791a8992982cd8da851550a453bd7f&

I’ve never seen any real comparative figures or reasons between settling in mainland europe and the UK.

It must be that it’s easier, because personally I’d try and settle in Spain, Portugal  or France etc.  Somewhere warmer and with better food than the UK. :P

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I believe it has something to do with no personal registration, so much easier to work in the illegal circuit. Something very rare over here. Almost impossible. You need a social number for everything, employers fined heavy if they have illegals working..

AH, found it;
Then, after six months in the country, they can apply for a work permit. But they can easily find work without a permit, because the black economy in Britain is worth some £80bn a year - four times the size of France's. There is no penalty for an employer who hires an illegal immigrant. Ultimately, only one in 40 illegal immigrants to Britain is repatriated.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/06/worlddispatch.jonhenley

NOTE, this was 2001, the 6 months wait for work permit is gone now, but the black economy not.

So nothing to do with the EU, it UK law. There are a lot of Dutch asylum seekers getting after yrs their status approved, full rights on everything and they disappear legally to the UK,

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Oh, and some of them speak English, as they were part of the great British Empire, or have family over there. So they think UK is easier for them, learning German is hard...
In Spain and Italy you do not make much money, and there a lot of illegals al ready who protect their turf. So hard to find work.

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7 minutes ago, LeoV said:

On the funny side, is the British Fish and Chips possible under hard Brexit ? Herring and Chips does not sound nice...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46361999
 

Looks like we might have to come to some sort of trade deal......................oh wait a minute..... we had one of those.:wacko:

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The fishers really supported Brexit, but they must have known that they export most of their catch.
Do they really think the UK will eat the fish they hate :)

Again under this, the EU take away our fishing, and small communities are suffering, the truth is that the Uk could make laws  too diversify the quota's to smaller fishing vessels.
But big money holds them back;

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2016/05/15/investigation-big-fish-quota-barons-squeeze-out-small-scale-fishermen/
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/06/uk-fishing-fleets-unlikely-to-gain-from-brexit-despite-goves-claims-say-experts

Okay, one of them is Eu based, but works by a UK firm, paying taxes in the UK, employing Uk fishers.
There is something wrong with those ships never landing the England  fish in the England, but frozen onboard and going to Netherlands and Scotland directly.
But changing that will only benefit lorry drivers, not the English fisherman. It  will be offloaded in the Uk, and directly transported to Scotland or the Eu.

So again, as with illegal immigrants, its an internal UK problem, which they try to solve by getting out of the EU, barking against the wrong tree.

This quote of second link says it all;

Under the EU rules, the UK already has and always has possessed the power to alter the way quota is allocated, and if it wished could make more of the quota available to smaller vessels. Successive governments have declined to do so, partly because of the complexity of changing the allocations, which might face legal challenges from the owners of big vessels, but also out of free-market ideology.

The government’s admission on page 12 of the white paper, that it will not seek to make radical changes to this arrangement even when the UK leaves the EU, shows the limitations in “taking back control” over fisheries policy.

And another fresh link:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/23/brexit-waters-fishing-industry-eu

I find it hard to find how many Uk fishers are fishing in Eu waters, I know there was a scallop war.

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25 minutes ago, LeoV said:

The fishers really supported Brexit, but they must have known that they export most of their catch.
Do they really think the UK will eat the fish they hate :)

Again under this, the EU take away our fishing, and small communities are suffering, the truth is that the Uk could make laws  too diversify the quota's to smaller fishing vessels.
But big money holds them back;

https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2016/05/15/investigation-big-fish-quota-barons-squeeze-out-small-scale-fishermen/
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/06/uk-fishing-fleets-unlikely-to-gain-from-brexit-despite-goves-claims-say-experts

Okay, one of them is Eu based, but works by a UK firm, paying taxes in the UK, employing Uk fishers.
There is something wrong with those ships never landing the England  fish in the England, but frozen onboard and going to Netherlands and Scotland directly.
But changing that will only benefit lorry drivers, not the English fisherman. It  will be offloaded in the Uk, and directly transported to Scotland or the Eu.

So again, as with illegal immigrants, its an internal UK problem, which they try to solve by getting out of the EU, barking against the wrong tree.

This quote of second link says it all;

Under the EU rules, the UK already has and always has possessed the power to alter the way quota is allocated, and if it wished could make more of the quota available to smaller vessels. Successive governments have declined to do so, partly because of the complexity of changing the allocations, which might face legal challenges from the owners of big vessels, but also out of free-market ideology.

The government’s admission on page 12 of the white paper, that it will not seek to make radical changes to this arrangement even when the UK leaves the EU, shows the limitations in “taking back control” over fisheries policy.

And another fresh link:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/23/brexit-waters-fishing-industry-eu

I find it hard to find how many Uk fishers are fishing in Eu waters, I know there was a scallop war.

I agree with you and all of the above...........cannot fathom out what the UK population were thinking when they went ahead and voted for this mess.

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I am not against the idea of thinking about leaving the EU, why not, maybe its better. But on false premises... many must have voted with their underbelly, uninformed...
The UK is really in a stranglehold now, nothing seems to work. Maybe a miracle will happen and the bill passes the 11th.

Found the answer on British fishing in Eu waters,
https://www.ft.com/content/84f51c84-5fe2-11e7-91a7-502f7ee26895

Looks like the Scots fish in Scottish waters, the English in English waters and in France, Ireland and in Norway.
Seems they have a deal with Norway about the much loved cod, an exchange of quota. This muddles the quota numbers.
It looks like the UK is worse off in the quota, only 30 percent of fish in UK waters fished by UK fisherman, seems strange. But if you look at the North Sea, they only own 30 percent from UK waters. A lot of fish is migratory, so we only have to catch them before they reach UK waters, they will be smaller and less profitable, but fisherman want to fish.
So that is the reality behind that number, the UK grounds are the place the get fat, so its more profitable to wait till they are there. Leaving better fish for the UK and Eu fishing industry. If UK blocks Eu fishers, they will fish on the smaller ones, so needing more, leaving less fish for the UK industry. It was a win win, now it can lead to loss loss.
Overall the deal seems better for the EU then for the UK, but has been for hundreds of years. So why was it never changed in the past?

Funny, Grove as minister of food is sun of a fish merchant;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/15/michael-gove-father-company-eu-policies-fish-processing-aberdeen
Michel Barnier sun of a fisherman.

https://cdn.theguardian.tv/mainwebsite/2016/06/13/160613BrexitMythbuster_desk.mp4

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2 hours ago, mad said:

I agree with you and all of the above...........cannot fathom out whether what the UK population were thinking when they went ahead and voted for this mess.

FIFY.

For the record, I'm still predicting a "Reversal Referendum".

Question: There is a deal, of sorts, on the table, agreed between Mrs May, (whose reward is in heaven, by the way), and the other 27 EU leaders. So she brings it back to for Parliament to ratify by voting to approve it. If they vote not to approve it, does that mean it's off the table and we're back to square one, or does some other kind of exit inevitably happen?

I'm mentally comparing the scenario to one where I send you, Mad, off to buy a boat for me. You agree terms with the vendor and come back to me for approving the contract. I refuse, for whatever reason, so the entire transaction collapses.

Could a similar process happen here, and because the actual exit mechanism can't be agreed, no exit happens?

Sorry if that's a little fuzzy and simplistic. My middle names.

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21 hours ago, Black Sox said:

FIFY.

For the record, I'm still predicting a "Reversal Referendum".

Question: There is a deal, of sorts, on the table, agreed between Mrs May, (whose reward is in heaven, by the way), and the other 27 EU leaders. So she brings it back to for Parliament to ratify by voting to approve it. If they vote not to approve it, does that mean it's off the table and we're back to square one, or does some other kind of exit inevitably happen?

I'm mentally comparing the scenario to one where I send you, Mad, off to buy a boat for me. You agree terms with the vendor and come back to me for approving the contract. I refuse, for whatever reason, so the entire transaction collapses.

Could a similar process happen here, and because the actual exit mechanism can't be agreed, no exit happens?

Sorry if that's a little fuzzy and simplistic. My middle names.

Its not impossible, but then again, nobody on any side of this really knows what will happen.  We haven't since it started.

Maybe if there had been more of these warnings before the vote, the public might have woken up a little.

Quote

The UK will be poorer economically under any form of Brexit, compared with staying in the EU, new government analysis suggests.

Official figures say the UK economy could be up to 3.9% smaller after 15 years under Theresa May's Brexit plan, compared with staying in the EU.

But a no-deal Brexit could deliver a 9.3% hit, the new estimates say.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46366162

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This is an interesting idea.  I don't see it being very popular with the EU!!

Quote

A free port, sometimes called a free trade zone or special economic zone, is normally an area of a country where its taxes and tariffs do not apply. So you can import goods, store them and re-export them without bothering the tax collectors.

And these days they go further, allowing firms to import raw materials, make finished goods and then export them, with none of the border taxes that the rest of the country has to pay.

Under current EU rules that is not possible, but after Brexit it could be a huge boost for areas like Teesside.

For Ben Houchen, the Mayor of the Tees Valley and the man behind the idea, turning Teesside into a free port is just common sense.

"They have them in the Middle East, they have them in North America and in the Far East," he says. "It is a tool in our arsenal that we are not using."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46349717

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And, Trump weighs in again

"May's comments come after US President Donald Trump added himself to the chorus of skeptics doubting her proposal -- saying it isn't clear if the agreement will allow a US-UK trading partnership."I think we have to take a look at seriously whether or not the UK is allowed to trade. Because you know, right now, if you look at the deal, they may not be able to trade with us," Trump said on the White House's South Lawn."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/27/politics/trump-brexit-deal-claims-gbr-intl/index.html

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1 hour ago, mad said:

This is an interesting idea.  I don't see it being very popular with the EU!!

Why not, after Brexit, that area will  trade with the UK, not with the EU I presume.
So they import metal from the EU or US or India, no import tax, they make a can out of it, and sell it on the Uk market without VAT and tariffs. The UK lost income.
The moment it will be exported to the EU, a tariff will be placed on it, Eu still gets what it wants.
They are not that stupid that they think they can export free too the EU ?

Oh, and they exist already. Its called enterprise zones.
https://enterprisezones.communities.gov.uk/about-enterprise-zones/
But I wonder about this:

What benefits do Enterprise Zones offer for UK economy?
Enterprise Zones are helping to attract more foreign investment into the country, and are bringing jobs and businesses across England.
Is foreign investment not down at the moment due to Brexit ?

 

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3 hours ago, LeoV said:

Why not, after Brexit, that area will  trade with the UK, not with the EU I presume.
So they import metal from the EU or US or India, no import tax, they make a can out of it, and sell it on the Uk market without VAT and tariffs. The UK lost income.
The moment it will be exported to the EU, a tariff will be placed on it, Eu still gets what it wants.
They are not that stupid that they think they can export free too the EU ?

Oh, and they exist already. Its called enterprise zones.
https://enterprisezones.communities.gov.uk/about-enterprise-zones/
But I wonder about this:

What benefits do Enterprise Zones offer for UK economy?
Enterprise Zones are helping to attract more foreign investment into the country, and are bringing jobs and businesses across England.
Is foreign investment not down at the moment due to Brexit ?

 

It is at the moment, but hardly surprising, why would anyone want to invest until they understand how raw materials are going to enter and produce leave? 

I wonder if this is some type of plan or idea for the UK to become some form of low tax industrial base? Not that there’s that much industrial left, it’s been sold off and outsourced to Asia and........ oh yes, europe. 

Edit

The enterprise zones are areas that are trying to provide a local tax incentive and subsidies to new startups and existing SME’s. The free trade zone is something far more involved and appears to be aimed at removing the need for import and export duties being applied as long as the final product is not for UK consumers. 

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Ah, did know the free trade area was bigger then enterprise, but it is in the same style. Tax relief for companies.
I wonder, export to who, not the Eu, so with a free trade deal with the rest of the world. So the UK competing with India, Vietnam and China.
Risky.

Twelve days to go for the vote.

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Just did some reading;
Brexiters pretend post-Brexit Britain will forge its own standards in trade, but that is false. We're a medium-sized country surrounded on both sides by massive trading entities. The reality is we'll either snuggle into the EU ecosystem or the US ecosystem - it's as simple as that.
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/07/27/this-is-what-no-deal-brexit-actually-looks-like

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I was in the UK shortly after the Brexit vote.  The folks I was talking to as I traveled all had a common theme.  At some point, some decision from Brussels had made a change in the way they did business or lived their lives.  Much of it from the application of unnecessary European standards.

They weren't always some great inconvenience or drastic alteration but it seemed like everything you did was being picked on by having a nagging wife.

Things like needing CE markings on just about every damn thing you used.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Things like needing CE markings on just about every damn thing you used.

guaranty most everything sold in the UK while be marked CE after brexit too; UK market alone is too small for many manufacturers to only care about it.

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46 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

guaranty most everything sold in the UK while be marked CE after brexit too; UK market alone is too small for many manufacturers to only care about it.

Hell, most of the stuff sold in Canada has a CE label in addition to UL or CSA. Why restrict your market unnecessarily?

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14 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Hell, most of the stuff sold in Canada has a CE label in addition to UL or CSA. Why restrict your market unnecessarily?

US too

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15 hours ago, Saorsa said:

I was in the UK shortly after the Brexit vote.  The folks I was talking to as I traveled all had a common theme.  At some point, some decision from Brussels had made a change in the way they did business or lived their lives.  Much of it from the application of unnecessary European standards.

They weren't always some great inconvenience or drastic alteration but it seemed like everything you did was being picked on by having a nagging wife.

Things like needing CE markings on just about every damn thing you used.

 

 

That’s the crock of shit, false flag excuse that a few used. As for the comment about CE markings, I’ve never heard that mentioned once as a grievance. 

Its like Wofsey, if in doubt make shit up to sound as if you understand. 

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Saorse just making shit up to stir the pot.

I watched the BBC show Question time, Brexit talk with some MP of a few party's (Labour, Tory and Libdem), a pub chain owner and a Rastafarian poet. And live questions from public.
You would think after two years the public would have learned what the serious points are. Still stupid remarks as, the Eu needs our money... And no MP reacting on that.
MP(labour) blatantly blaming EU for things the UK could do already, even within the EU (Fish quota for small businesses)
An MP (Tory) is a Brexit proponent and defending May's deal.(if someone turns like that with good arguments you should listen, even if he could be wrong)
The poet was funny about the fish, they should stay in the sea, as he is vegan :)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bt7j7t/question-time-2018-29112018

Overall I get the idea that most people on both sides are dug in, and do not listen to each other. Politicians and public.
 

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Oops, talked to my friend the exporter, a no deal leave will have big consequences for the transport sector.
Wild stories fly in the port of Rotterdam.

For example a wild story: If no deal Brexit:
A UK lorry driving into EU must have a permit, and there will not be enough of them.
So its back to unloading at the border, or swapping the truck including the driver.
Driving without permit is illegal and you are not insured.

So a quick research, looks like it is true;
https://www.bifa.org/news/articles/2018/nov/apply-now-for-the-european-conference-of-ministers-of-transport-ecmt-permits
The application process for 2019’s annual permits opened on 26 November 2018 and will close at 23.59 hours on  Sunday 21 December 2018. With the expected allocation of permits likely to cover only 5% of the current vehicle journeys made between the UK and EU, operators are being urged to apply now or risk being unable to travel in the event of a ‘No Deal’ outcome.  The Department for Transport (DfT) expects the number of applications for ECMT permits will exceed the number of permits available. British operators will only have access to 984 annual permits for 2019, which will be restricted to the most modern vehicles (EURO VI), so the DVSA will allocate permits based on a certain set of criteria.

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4 hours ago, mad said:

As for the comment about CE markings, I’ve never heard that mentioned once as a grievance. 

 

I guess you don't own a restaurant or pub with a lot of glassware.

Most had time to replace with normal wear and tear but some of the smaller ones I frequented had a big buy to make.

 

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Ah information from a bar, that is legit.
That is an UK law, not a EU law,  here we do not have this as a law, or France, or Spain. I see them sometimes in a bar.
Again UK having a problem, restaurants serving smaller pints then a pint should be, and use a EU directive (guideline) and make that a law. Later people blaming the EU for it.

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3 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I think the biggest - BY FAR - issue with Brexit was keeping Mexicans Damn Foreigners out. The "Build A Wall" crowd more or less.

And voters wanting to stick something up to the elite.

PS with a no deal Brexit, for every EU foreigner they kick out, there will be a UK national coming back (pensioners), or an non EU immigrant to fill up the workplace from the EU national, and more illegal immigrants.

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On 11/30/2018 at 3:01 PM, Saorsa said:

I guess you don't own a restaurant or pub with a lot of glassware.

Most had time to replace with normal wear and tear but some of the smaller ones I frequented had a big buy to make.

 

Toughened Nonic Glass 20oz (57cl) L@10oz CE

TOUGHENED NONIC GLASS 20OZ (57CL) L@10OZ CE

Pack Size - 48
£25.49
ADD TO BASKET
 
 
53 pence per glass!! And lets not forget that the breweries dish out glasses every month or 2 as part of promotion deals.

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Quote

The UK faces a "constitutional crisis" if Theresa May does not publish the full legal advice on her Brexit deal on Monday, Labour has warned.

The PM says the advice is confidential, but some MPs think ministers do not want to admit it says the UK could be indefinitely tied to EU customs rules.

Sam Gyimah, who quit the government on Friday, said releasing the advice was "key to restoring trust in politics".

Attorney General Geoffrey Cox will make a statement about it later.

He is set to publish a reduced version of the legal advice at 14.00 GMT - despite calls from MPs from all parties to publish a full version.

MPs say this will not not respect a binding Commons vote last month, which required the government to lay before Parliament "any legal advice in full".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46419790

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On 11/30/2018 at 3:22 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

I think the biggest - BY FAR - issue with Brexit was keeping Mexicans Damn Foreigners out. The "Build A Wall" crowd more or less.

And that was another false flag.

Quote

The number of EU citizens moving to the UK has continued to drop, but more people coming from elsewhere means the overall migration rate is unchanged.

Figures show net migration - the difference between how many people came to the UK for at least 12 months and how many left - was 273,000 last year.

EU net migration was 74,000 in the year to the end of June 2018, while non-EU net migration was 248,000.

The ONS said more Asian citizens had been moving to the UK for work.

The Office for National Statistics says 219,000 EU citizens arrived in the UK, as 145,000 left, making net EU migration the lowest it had been since 2012.

The data also showed non-EU net migration was the highest since 2004.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46384417?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c302m85qe1vt/uk-immigration&link_location=live-reporting-story

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On 11/30/2018 at 10:25 AM, LeoV said:

Ah information from a bar, that is legit.
That is an UK law, not a EU law,  here we do not have this as a law, or France, or Spain. I see them sometimes in a bar.
Again UK having a problem, restaurants serving smaller pints then a pint should be, and use a EU directive (guideline) and make that a law. Later people blaming the EU for it.

There was already a law that required that pub glasses be marked as a pint or half before they joined the EU.  The EU reg seemed to be that if you put a measure on something it also had to have the CE mark.

Keeping track of the vagaries of the EU bureacracy is of little interest.  I merely reported that virtually everyone had some example of what they considered EU interference from fishing, to immigration to the markings on glasses.

If someone really wanted to stay they should, perhaps, have considered going out to vote instead of assuming that everything would go their way without effort on their part.

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6 hours ago, mad said:

Members of the commonwealth and former colonies have always had access to British immigration.  It is referred to as the 'Right of Abode'.  There is a slight difference in passports since one is referred to as a citizen and the other as a subject.  There is also a 'Certificate of Entitlement' which differs from both of those categories.

A lot of Jamicans came in after WWII and a lot of Indians and Pakistanis in the 60s.

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

Members of the commonwealth and former colonies have always had access to British immigration.  It is referred to as the 'Right of Abode'.  There is a slight difference in passports since one is referred to as a citizen and the other as a subject.  There is also a 'Certificate of Entitlement' which differs from both of those categories.

A lot of Jamicans came in after WWII and a lot of Indians and Pakistanis in the 60s.

Exactly, unfortunately those that voted for Brexit based on the immigration issues were sorely misinformed and totally ignorant of that fact. 

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

There was already a law that required that pub glasses be marked as a pint or half before they joined the EU.  The EU reg seemed to be that if you put a measure on something it also had to have the CE mark.

Keeping track of the vagaries of the EU bureacracy is of little interest.  I merely reported that virtually everyone had some example of what they considered EU interference from fishing, to immigration to the markings on glasses.

If someone really wanted to stay they should, perhaps, have considered going out to vote instead of assuming that everything would go their way without effort on their part.

I highly recommend that you take a return trip and speak to the same people and see how they currently feel. I can guarantee you that they complained about similar interference from UK government before the EU and will continue for the foreseeable future, whatever the outcome maybe. 

Ask them how they feel about the devaluation in the pound, the likely delays when going through passport control whilst popping to Europe for a holiday, the lack of capped data roaming, the rescinding of labour laws etc, etc 

Strangely enough, the areas that voted out were the ones that most benefitted from EU funding, areas of the North, Cornwall and Wales for example. There will and rightfully should be tears from these areas and others when they realise that they’ve shot themselves in the foot for the next decade or two. 

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12 minutes ago, mad said:

I highly recommend that you take a return trip and speak to the same people and see how they currently feel. I can guarantee you that they complained about similar interference from UK government before the EU and will continue for the foreseeable future, whatever the outcome maybe. 

Ask them how they feel about the devaluation in the pound, the likely delays when going through passport control whilst popping to Europe for a holiday, the lack of capped data roaming, the rescinding of labour laws etc, etc 

There's a reason they're referred to as Whinging Poms. With love, of course.

Sore-Ass thinks this is a new thing.

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

There's a reason they're referred to as Whinging Poms. With love, of course.

Sore-Ass thinks this is a new thing.

Well we’ve all got something to whinge about now. Happy days :P

He also hasn’t got the insight, foresight or a fucking clue what he’s talking about, much like those that voted out.  

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50 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

There's a reason they're referred to as Whinging Poms. With love, of course.

Sore-Ass thinks this is a new thing.

How can you tell a British Airways jet has landed?

You can still here the whine even though the engines have stopped.........

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

There's a reason they're referred to as Whinging Poms. With love, of course.

Sore-Ass thinks this is a new thing.

If you were to search the site for 'Whinging Pommie Bastard' or 'Ten Pound Pom' you will find I have used the term for years.

 

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2 hours ago, Saorsa said:

If you were to search the site for 'Whinging Pommie Bastard' or 'Ten Pound Pom' you will find I have used the term for years.

uh, a 10-pound pom is an aussie or maybe a kiwi. i mean, it's great you've used the term for years to refer to people who don't live in the isles......

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6 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

uh, a 10-pound pom is an aussie or maybe a kiwi. i mean, it's great you've used the term for years to refer to people who don't live in the isles......

10 pound poms refer to UK immigrants to Aus. 

saorsa is easily confused. 

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I see today that an opinion from the EU says that Britain can back out of Brexit. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/04/britain-legally-cancel-brexit-eu-parliament-court-remain

I also see that Farage has left UKIP. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46448299

Plus the government voted in contempt...shit's getting real.

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Dreadom, that was fun, they should have showed the infighting of the UK family too, like grand paps (Reese Mogg), the drunk uncle (Boris), the transgender ( Corbyn) etc.
Man it would be a good theatre show in the future.

The shit is getting very real.

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The EU will come back to the negotiating table if parliament votes down Theresa May’s deal with Brussels, according to Romano Prodi, a former European commission president.

Prodi, who twice served as Italian prime minister and had Jean-Claude Juncker’s job until 2004, said that the EU needed to do everything it could to avoid the “economic catastrophe” of a no-deal Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/08/eu-will-negotiate-after-may-loses-commons-brexit-vote-says-prodi?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

If this is the case? Its seems the EU are being far more grownup and pragmatic than the British. 

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Some sensible words there.
Maybe they (Eu and UK) could have had an emergency meeting and sweetened the backstop emergency plan by putting a limit on it. Say 15 yrs.
Would take the edge out of some critics, and showed some cooperation. With the mess the UK politicians are making of it, the Eu on the other side is looking inactive.
We do not hear much of what is going on on their side, as they keep in line and quiet. Maybe to quiet. Marketing was never their forte.
That the Eu is stile in line and not infighting over Brexit is something the Brexiteers did not expect to happen. They thought they would fight and the UK could profit from that. Wrong calculation.

A few months to go...
Remember the backlog in traffic in Kent a few year's ago, will happen again if no deal.
A few messy months. At least they are preparing;
https://democracy.kent.gov.uk/documents/s88112/Item 7 - Brexit.pdf

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Well this is the one and only chance to grab that lifeline.......................and I bet we decide to just fucking ignore it!!!<_<

Quote

The European Court of Justice has ruled the UK can cancel Brexit without the permission of the other 27 EU members.

The ECJ judges ruled this could be done without altering the terms of Britain's membership.

A group of anti-Brexit politicians argued the UK should be able to unilaterally halt Brexit, but they were opposed by the government and EU.

The decision comes a day before MPs are due to vote on Theresa May's deal for leaving the EU.

MPs are already widely expected to reject the proposals during a vote in the House of Commons on Tuesday night.

BBC Brussels correspondent Adam Fleming said the ruling made staying in the EU "a real, viable option" and that may "sway a few MPs" in the way they vote.

But he said "a lot would have to change in British politics" to see the UK remain in the EU, with Mrs May and the government having to change its mind to make it a "political reality".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-46481643

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44 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Nah, that would make sense.

Mad, get your international driver license sorted before the masses, if you drive in the Eu that is.

Meanwhile in the capital market;
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/dec/10/hedge-funds-make-big-bets-against-post-brexit-uk-economy

Still working out if we'll be allowed in first! :P

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Theresa May is to make a statement to MPs at 15:30 GMT amid reports Tuesday's vote on her Brexit deal is being delayed.

That will be followed by a statement from Commons leader Andrea Leadsom - and then a statement from the Brexit secretary on Article 50.

Two cabinet sources have told the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg Tuesday's planned Brexit vote will be delayed.

There is not yet any official confirmation of the move.

Downing Street had been insisting the vote would go ahead, despite Mrs May being widely expected to lose it.

A third Cabinet source has told the BBC the vote is "definitely off".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46509288

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You couldn't make this shit up if you tried!!:wacko:

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43 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Clock is ticking... how many weeks to go ?

while a few hours ago Grove said it would go on, what a mess.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/10/commons-brexit-deal-vote-definitely-go-ahead-michael-gove

When confronted with losing by over a hundred votes, even they know its a pointless waste of time (much like the last 2 years)  

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1 hour ago, LeoV said:

WTF,
Theresa May is to make a statement to MPs at 15:30 GMT amid reports Tuesday's vote on her Brexit deal is being delayed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46509288

From your link.

Quote

Mrs May's Commons statement will be followed by a statement from Commons leader Andrea Leadsom - and then a statement from the Brexit secretary Stephen Barclay on Article 50 - the legal mechanism taking the UK out of the EU on 29 March.

I wonder what this might mean??

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30 months passed since Brexit vote, 3 months and two weeks to go. And not sure who will be PM in 3 weeks.

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2 minutes ago, LeoV said:

30 months passed since Brexit vote, 3 months and two weeks to go. And not sure who will be PM in 3 weeks.

Might as well start the New Year with a new PM and or government. :o:P:lol:

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Or a new UK, England and Wales only listening to the remarks of SNP and some NI parties. 20 days to arrange two referenda, could be done :)

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34 minutes ago, LeoV said:

Or a new UK, England and Wales only listening to the remarks of SNP and some NI parties. 20 days to arrange two referenda, could be done :)

No Hope, everyone's on Christmas shutdown in 10 days time. 

We might as well get drunk and worry about this in the new year. :lol:

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Drink some Belgium beers while you can :) And get really drunk.

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It's getting damn hard to figure out what's next from this side of the pond.

Theresa out?
Hardliner in? Euro-centrist in? 
New plebiscite?

Dang.

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“Pathetic cowardice it is from prime minister,” wrote the first minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon. “This can’t go on... A PM and government that have run out of road and now need to get out of the way.”

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3 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

“Pathetic cowardice it is from prime minister,” wrote the first minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon. “This can’t go on... A PM and government that have run out of road and now need to get out of the way.”

There seems to be a lot of that, but you have a referendum that says "let's get out"(likely influenced by Russia) and a gov't that is looking at disaster in the face if getting out happens, and blinks.

Does it just "end"

That won't be a soft landing. 

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Doesn't look like this has been posted here so I'll do the honours.

Hilarious - if you're into Lord of the Rings anyway :lol:

 

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4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

There seems to be a lot of that, but you have a referendum that says "let's get out"(likely influenced by Russia) and a gov't that is looking at disaster in the face if getting out happens, and blinks.

Does it just "end"

That won't be a soft landing. 

The Ireland/N. Ireland border is what's stuck in the throat of the dumb fuck Brexiters.  

The EU will not hang out Ireland.  They are making an example-- of England and of Ireland.  When the EU tells Ireland to jump, Ireland says, "how high!?" They had a couple of referendums they re-did when the EU called bullshit on them.   In return, the EU is demonstrating that if you are a tiny country like Ireland but loyal to the EU, they have your back.   Brexit will be horrible for Ireland-- soft, no deal, what ever.   

Today the EU just said they won't re-consider the deal.  So the dumb Brexiters have really run out of road.  

Another referendum looks more and more likely