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Hindsight,  but did they have personal EPIRBs?

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14 minutes ago, More Cowbell2 said:

Hindsight,  but did they have personal EPIRBs?

That isn't known atm. But if he was unable to activate his inflatable vest  it's doubtful he could activate a personal EPIRB. Also, they don't work underwater. From the information known, it appears the boat and crew were prepared, and all the correct actions taken. Yet a tragedy occurred. Sometimes that happens.

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I have not read the circumstances of the MOB...anyone know what was happening at the moment the guy went over the side ?

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46 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I have not read the circumstances of the MOB...anyone know what was happening at the moment the guy went over the side ?

A sailboat race.  

 

If you’ve ever sailed in or around Chicago in those conditions, you know just how nasty the sea state can be.  A 200+ NM long fetch coming down the lake to a shallow southern end.  Waves get very steep and the wave period is very short.

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Just now, dcbsheb said:

A sailboat race.  

 

If you’ve ever sailed in or around Chicago in those conditions, you know just how nasty the sea state can be.  A 200+ NM long fetch coming down the lake to a shallow southern end.  Waves get very steep and the wave period is very short.

Yeah I know that much....again what were the circumstances when he went over....

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Can we give it a day or 2 before the  SA ‘post mortem’ begins?

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54 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I have not read the circumstances of the MOB...anyone know what was happening at the moment the guy went over the side ?

Only the people on Imedi, and not necessarily all of them, know the answer to that question.

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1 minute ago, mad said:

Can we give it a day or 2 before the  SA ‘post mortem’ begins?

I am not second guessing anything...just curious what he was doing just before he went over. 

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11 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I am not second guessing anything...just curious what he was doing just before he went over. 

I didn’t say you were...just suggesting to leave it a day or 2 and let the crew get their heads together and release a statement. 

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Rest of the ride should be better for teams still racing. We’re coming into Muskegon on the ferry now and seas are pretty flat, 1-3 at most.  Was closer to 4-6(+) on the Milwaukee side.  Sure they are happy for a respite. 

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Imedi in now entering the harbor after searching through the night - 17+ hours.

Hoping they are not mobbed by reporters.  Gotta be very tough for them.

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45 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Yeah I know that much....again what were the circumstances when he went over....

Just give it a rest.  At the appropriate time, an official statement will be released.  Until then, let’s keep the speculation and second guessing alone.  What we should all be doing now is praying for and supporting the families & loved ones of those affected.

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3 minutes ago, dcbsheb said:

Just give it a rest.  At the appropriate time, an official statement will be released.  Until then, let’s keep the speculation and second guessing alone.  What we should all be doing now is praying for and supporting the families & loved ones of those affected.

Well what are you doing here then .... follow your own advice ~~~~

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30 minutes ago, Morgan Crewed said:

Imedi in now entering the harbor after searching through the night - 17+ hours.

Hoping they are not mobbed by reporters.  Gotta be very tough for them.

They have unfortunately experienced every sailor's nightmare and I hope that with the support of family, friends, and the sailing community at large, that they can get through this difficult time.  My sincerest best thoughts and prayers for all affected by this tragedy.  

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I had a brief exchange with one of the guys from Arma via FB, very late last night.  I'm sure many from that crew will weigh in here.  His comments:


"Yeah, not a good day. We joined them and searched until dark in pretty terrible conditions. 20-25 knots of breeze from the North and waves that were consistently 6-8 feet and occasionally 10 feet. We did come across a blue throwable cushion, and their MOB module. It was very eye opening to see how close we had to be to these things to see them. They would repeatedly disappear in the waves. In a search area this big and in these conditions, you’d need a lot of luck on your side to find your crew mate. Our hearts go out to the crew of the Imedi and this sailor’s family and friends."

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5 hours ago, RKoch said:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/chicago-yacht-club-race-mackinac-man-overboard/

Sounds like CG will resume search at daylight. It doesn't say for how long. 

They should have searched all night regardless of how futile it might be.  We pay them to go out and hassle boaters on Sunday afternoons.  We pay the Chicago PD to buzz the playpen with their choppers.  This is their whole purpose.  And they can't run through the night?  All the mac racers are running their boats through the night for a purpose far less important.  

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I'm pretty disappointed by the number of "we found out once we got cell service" posts on social media right now. It's been several years since the days of shutting off the VHF after the start was acceptable. Continuously monitoring 16 is a federal requirement and is called out in the SIs in addition to the prescribed call ins. I understand shit happens, as we lost our masthead antenna during the storm in last years CYC Mac and our emergency antenna is pretty much equivalent to a handheld, but the volume of people I'm seeing saying this is staggering.

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23 minutes ago, Shife said:

I'm pretty disappointed by the number of "we found out once we got cell service" posts on social media right now. It's been several years since the days of shutting off the VHF after the start was acceptable. Continuously monitoring 16 is a federal requirement and is called out in the SIs in addition to the prescribed call ins. I understand shit happens, as we lost our masthead antenna during the storm in last years CYC Mac and our emergency antenna is pretty much equivalent to a handheld, but the volume of people I'm seeing saying this is staggering.

To be fair, a lot of boats would have everyone on the rail for a little while after the start. Combined with having the hatch shut due to the weather, most wouldn’t hear the radio. Once watch rotations start, there’s usually someone that can hear the radio. 

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1 minute ago, Monkey said:

To be fair, a lot of boats would have everyone on the rail for a little while after the start. Combined with having the hatch shut due to the weather, most wouldn’t hear the radio. Once watch rotations start, there’s usually someone that can hear the radio. 

Nowadays they have fully weatherproof vhfs.  Silly not to have one in the cockpit.  

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3 minutes ago, Monkey said:

To be fair, a lot of boats would have everyone on the rail for a little while after the start. Combined with having the hatch shut due to the weather, most wouldn’t hear the radio. Once watch rotations start, there’s usually someone that can hear the radio. 

That was a valid argument when remote mics were expensive and found on commercial vessels. There really isn't an excuse to be without this capability anymore. A remote mic also allows you to kill the audio in the cabin and only have it on deck so the off watch can rest without the noise of the VHF.  I don't want to get into a stupid argument over bullshit, so this is my last comment on the issue.

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Just now, Shife said:

That was a valid argument when remote mics were expensive and found on commercial vessels. There really isn't an excuse to be without this capability anymore. A remote mic also allows you to kill the audio in the cabin and only have it on deck so the off watch can rest without the noise of the VHF.  I don't want to get into a stupid argument over bullshit, so this is my last comment on the issue.

Only the argument made against your premise would be stupid bullshit. 

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4 minutes ago, Shife said:

That was a valid argument when remote mics were expensive and found on commercial vessels. There really isn't an excuse to be without this capability anymore. A remote mic also allows you to kill the audio in the cabin and only have it on deck so the off watch can rest without the noise of the VHF.  I don't want to get into a stupid argument over bullshit, so this is my last comment on the issue.

To be fair...it seems the nearby boats were aware and responded to the situation.....that said a "Prudent Mariner" would have VHF monitoring in any offshore race with those unstable weather conditions....it is surprising to me if Ch 16 or whichever dedicated race channel was not monitored...pretty easy to tell by the chatter rate if the volume needs to be turned up 

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

Nowadays they have fully weatherproof vhfs.  Silly not to have one in the cockpit.  

Sure, but a waterproof handheld stuffed in a line bag would be hard to hear... and then it'll be out of range within a couple hours (short antenna). And that's compounded by transmitting boats also using handhelds.

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Just now, JoeO said:

Sure, but a waterproof handheld stuffed in a line bag would be hard to hear... and then it'll be out of range within a couple hours (short antenna). And that's compounded by transmitting boats also using handhelds.

I am talking about either a regular VHF mounted in the cockpit or a remote mic connected to the one at the chart table.  In the real world, VHFs are used to call for bridges, locks, when crossing paths with ships, etc.  It needs to be in the cockpit where it is useful.  I don't think that the issue here was lack of attention when the MOB was made.    

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After listening to the PC...it does not seem anything more could have been done....the poor soul did not have his head above water for very long...

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9 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

After listening to the PC...it does not seem anything more could have been done....the poor soul did not have his head above water for very long...

That, of course, is the sad reality of the situation to a certainty of 99% or more.  But what about the 1%?  And what the fuck else did our search and rescue teams have going last night that was more important?

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

That, of course, is the sad reality of the situation to a certainty of 99% or more.  But what about the 1%?  And what the fuck else did our search and rescue teams have going last night that was more important?

From my PC recall ....there were 3 helo's and many race boats searching ASAP to a well marked last known position.....for 7 hours of daylight.... 

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1 minute ago, jzk said:

That, of course, is the sad reality of the situation to a certainty of 99% or more.  But what about the 1%?  And what the fuck else did our search and rescue teams have going last night that was more important?

The crew saw him go under. The rescue folks would’ve known this. I don’t want to sound crass, but it isn’t worth risking more lives at night in bad weather for a body recovery. The crew of Imedi staying out to search was extremely admirable and probably something they felt they had to do out of loyalty. I can’t imagine what they’re going through. 

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1 minute ago, SailBlueH2O said:

From my PC recall ....there were 3 helo's and many race boats searching ASAP to a well marked last known position.....for 7 hours of daylight.... 

All good stuff.  Until they called off the search at night.

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Just now, Monkey said:

The crew saw him go under. The rescue folks would’ve known this. I don’t want to sound crass, but it isn’t worth risking more lives at night in bad weather for a body recovery. The crew of Imedi staying out to search was extremely admirable and probably something they felt they had to do out of loyalty. I can’t imagine what they’re going through. 

Its true.  A night search would have been by all accounts futile.  But what about the 1% chance?  We pay the CPD to blast around Chicago like fucking cowboys burning fuel and throwing up wakes on Sunday afternoons.  CPD helicopters buzz the playpen tooting their sirens presumably looking for titties really creating a dangerous situation.   They can go out and search at night.  It would not be "risking lives" any more than all the mac racers risking their lives for a sailboat race.  They are professionals.  This is what they do.  So fucking do it.

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Just now, jzk said:

All good stuff.  Until they called off the search at night.

I get how you feel....it is tough to accept  reality when life and death are in the balance....the guy was seen and area marked....but never seen again....gone under the surface ~~~Sad~~~

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Just now, SailBlueH2O said:

I get how you feel....it is tough to accept  reality when life and death are in the balance....the guy was seen and area marked....but never seen again....gone under the surface ~~~Sad~~~

And I get what you are saying.  Somewhere between a long shot and a no shot.  But we have all gone out in bad whether for far less important things.  This is why we have these people.  Worst case it is an excellent training exercise for next time.  What if you were freezing your ass off clinging to a cushion at 2am knowing that no one was looking for you until sunrise? 

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6 minutes ago, jzk said:

All good stuff.  Until they called off the search at night.

A boat isn't going to see shit at night in 6' waves. Pointless to remain out there.  And a chopper is only useful for its infrared vision...once the body cools off, even that's useless.... if even afloat. I'm sure the search continued until any hope of survival was gone. 

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1 minute ago, RKoch said:

A boat isn't going to see shit at night in 6' waves. Pointless to remain out there.  And a chopper is only useful for its infrared vision...once the body cools off, even that's useless.... if even afloat. I'm sure the search continued until any hope of survival was gone. 

Its more pointless to have the Conservation Police, Chicago Police, and the US Coast Guard (and sometimes the state police) all patrolling the playpen for rule breakers on a Sunday afternoon.  A boat can see plenty in 6" waves with a nice spotlight.  Much more than they can see at the dock.  Its true.  It was probably over 30 minutes into it.  But so what?  What did they have going that was more important last night?

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3 minutes ago, jzk said:

Its more pointless to have the Conservation Police, Chicago Police, and the US Coast Guard (and sometimes the state police) all patrolling the playpen for rule breakers on a Sunday afternoon.  A boat can see plenty in 6" waves with a nice spotlight.  Much more than they can see at the dock.  Its true.  It was probably over 30 minutes into it.  But so what?  What did they have going that was more important last night?

Apples and oranges logic....SAD....the poor soul slipped beneath the waves~~~ soon after going over the side ...

 

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1 hour ago, SailBlueH2O said:

To be fair...it seems the nearby boats were aware and responded to the situation.....that said a "Prudent Mariner" would have VHF monitoring in any offshore race with those unstable weather conditions....it is surprising to me if Ch 16 or whichever dedicated race channel was not monitored...pretty easy to tell by the chatter rate if the volume needs to be turned up 

Monitoring 16 is required by the SIs. Saying "we  didn't hear about it until we got cell coverage" implies you weren't following the rules of the race. I'm not saying that's the case, but that's what is implied.

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plenty of boats searching for many many hours in very challenging conditions. along with the first responders by sea and air. crew confirmed seeing him go under. cannot imagine what those hours must have felt like and I hope I never do. the rest is just armchair opinions. maybe wait for more information or talk to people actually involved in the rescue operation. 

hoping for strength that allows for the families to work through a most difficult time

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51 minutes ago, jzk said:

Its more pointless to have the Conservation Police, Chicago Police, and the US Coast Guard (and sometimes the state police) all patrolling the playpen for rule breakers on a Sunday afternoon.  A boat can see plenty in 6" waves with a nice spotlight.  Much more than they can see at the dock.  Its true.  It was probably over 30 minutes into it.  But so what?  What did they have going that was more important last night?

Merlin reported they had very limited visibility in 6' waves, in broad fucking daylight. Stop it with the stupidity. 

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Stupid to Not have that "OneThing" you Need when you Need(ed) it !!!

inevitably  :-(

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Just to relate my own experience... About 35 years ago I was out on a J-24 coaching a team of women sailors. Middle of a large bay, about 8kn wind, neglible waves, bright sunny day. At one point we heard noises that sounded like seagull cries. We couldn't see any, which left us scratching our heads. After another minute or two, we discerned that the seagull cries sounded like the word 'help'. We immediately doused the spinnaker, and taking a guess we started sailing back upwind...still couldn't see anything. After several minutes, we were finally able to make out 2 small dots on the water about 150 yards away...two heads. Man and woman somehow fell off their Hobie 18, became separated, and the boat sailed away from them. They had on life jackets, been in the water about 45 minutes. It was lucky we happened to be there and rescue them...absolutely ideal wind and water conditions. Darkness, high wind and waves?.... never would have even known they were there, let alone locate them. A head on the water's surface is a really small object. If the mob is underwater it's utterly hopeless. 

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It looks like Many boats have retired.  How can that be possible?

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2 hours ago, RKoch said:

Merlin reported they had very limited visibility in 6' waves, in broad fucking daylight. Stop it with the stupidity. 

Quite a bit more visibility than from the dock. 

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Here are conditions right now.  Can you see anything? 

IMG_20180722_151257.jpg

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

Here are conditions right now.  Can you see anything? 

IMG_20180722_151257.jpg

Let it go jzk

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

Here are conditions right now.  Can you see anything? 

IMG_20180722_151257.jpg

Only you making a continued cunt of yourself. Give it a rest.

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2 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

Only you making a continued cunt of yourself. Give it a rest.

If you ever go in the water, I sincerely hope they don't put a clown such as yourself in charge of the rescue. 

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11 minutes ago, jzk said:

If you ever go in the water, I sincerely hope they don't put a clown such as yourself in charge of the rescue. 

Jzk... it seems clear that it was not a lack of effort... but lack of bouyancy...

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29 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Let it go jzk

He’s a troll, just ignore him. 

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I have two friends on Imedi and haven’t spoken to one yet as I am sure they are in shock. At 66 years of age I have wound down my racing career. I am just not in the shape I used to be in. I can not swim in the water like I use to. I cannot imagine going into the water at my age with full foul weather gear and boots on and be able to keep my head out of water especially in those conditions. It was daytime Jon apparently had on his  PFD maybe no teather which is not unusual for daytime rough weather. Apparently his PFD didn’t inflate. The crew of Imedi responded expertly. The crew saw him slip under.  Could there have been a better MOB response NO. This is just a tragic accident and my heart goes out to family, friends and crew of Jon and Imedi.  There is a slight risk every time we go off shore of accidents happening. This story could very well be about me as I had an experience very similar to this one but with a lucky outcome. I didn’t go overboard but very nearly did in similar conditions. During one stormy Cabo race on Condor ( Andrews 68) I was driving during the day upwind and in the worst part of the storm, heavy rain 20-30 knots on the nose and 10+ foot waves. Minimum crew (5) on deck as most were down below staying out of the weather with many sea sick. A small head sail up no main doing 9-11 knots when a big side wave crashed over the deck. I wasn’t clipped in but did have on my PFD. I was nearly washed over but was able to barely hold on to the wheel. Could I have been recovered? Who knows? 

It is up to each one of us to maintain our safety gear, like packing a parachute,  if it don’t work it’s on us. Sometimes no mater what things don’t work right. I would like to think after my bad experience I would always clip on but each of one of us takes a measure of risk in everything decision we make but they are our decisions. 

Check your safety gear and when in doubt clip on and try  to stay on the boat. If not we live and die with our decisions. 

It seems Jon passed away doing what he loved. My heart felt simpathy goes out to his family, friends and the crew on Imedi. 

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2 minutes ago, mad said:

He’s a troll, just ignore him. 

Ok... if he is he is a sick troll... I just figured he was in shock/ denial... that said this race has a nasty history for all the “offshore “ hours they claim.... with all due respect for those suffering 

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Thoughts and prayers are with Jon's family.  Fair winds, sailor.

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Who are these arse clowns that know more about the conditions on the water from the comfort of their moms basements than the actual sailors and rescue professionals? I know this will go on and on as the SA inquisition  tries to pin the blame on someone but the fact is one hand for yourself and one hand for the boat. All sailors know this and what is really means, if you dont accept it and think that someone is definitely going to rescue you then you had better take up knitting. Rescue is a bonus, not an automatic done deal. Its tough but that's our sport. I mean this for the trolls who get into the blame game, not for the lost sailor.

I am absolutely sure that everyone involved in the search put everything into it, but at some point there is a cutoff and I cant imagine how the crew would feel sailing away. They will be distraught that they could not find their shipmate, and my sympathies go to them and family and friends who may never have a body to mourn.

A cool analysis is not so easy on this forum due to trolls, but making an assumption, (ignoring the reason for the fall) if the life vest did not inflate then perhaps a discussion on the merits of auto vs manual may be worthwhile.

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4 minutes ago, tweaker said:

I have two friends on Imedi and haven’t spoken to one yet as I am sure they are in shock. At 66 years of age I have wound down my racing career. I am just not in the shape I used to be in. I can not swim in the water like I use to. I cannot imagine going into the water at my age with full foul weather gear and boots on and be able to keep my head out of water especially in those conditions. It was daytime Jon apparently had on his  PFD maybe no teather which is not unusual for daytime rough weather. Apparently his PFD didn’t inflate. The crew of Imedi responded expertly. The crew saw him slip under.  Could there have been a better MOB response NO. This is just a tragic accident and my heart goes out to family, friends and crew of Jon and Imedi.  There is a slight risk every time we go off shore of accidents happening. This story could very well be about me as I had an experience very similar to this one but with a lucky outcome. I didn’t go overboard but very nearly did in similar conditions. During one stormy Cabo race on Condor ( Andrews 68) I was driving during the day upwind and in the worst part of the storm, heavy rain 20-30 knots on the nose and 10+ foot waves. Minimum crew (5) on deck as most were down below staying out of the weather with many sea sick. A small head sail up no main doing 9-11 knots when a big side wave crashed over the deck. I wasn’t clipped in but did have on my PFD. I was nearly washed over but was able to barely hold on to the wheel. Could I have been recovered? Who knows? 

It is up to each one of us to maintain our safety gear, like packing a parachute,  if it don’t work it’s on us. Sometimes no mater what things don’t work right. I would like to think after my bad experience I would always clip on but each of one of us takes a measure of risk in everything decision we make but they are our decisions. 

Check your safety gear and when in doubt clip on and try  to stay on the boat. If not we live and die with our decisions. 

It seems Jon passed away doing what he loved. My heart felt simpathy goes out to his family, friends and the crew on Imedi. 

Well said. I’ll actually admit I skipped worrying about my life jacket this year knowing I was going to skip the Macs. Not anymore. Recharge kit will be here before my next race. I don’t know what happened, I just wish it hadn’t. 

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23 minutes ago, mad said:

He’s a troll, just ignore him. 

Yeah advocating a search and rescue makes one a troll.  Best just to light a candle and change one's Facebook profile picture. 

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5 minutes ago, jzk said:

Yeah advocating a search and rescue makes one a troll.  Best just to light a candle and change one's Facebook profile picture. 

No. ..persisting in making stupid remarks makes you a troll. You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. 

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4 minutes ago, RKoch said:

No. ..persisting in making stupid remarks makes you a troll. You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. 

I do know that right this minute there are more law enforcement units patrolling navy pier than looking for this poor guy, and I think that sucks. You are free, of course, to make excuses. 

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

I do know that right this minute there are more law enforcement units patrolling navy pier than looking for this poor guy, and I think that sucks. You are free, of course, to make excuses. 

Were you out searching?

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14 minutes ago, jzk said:

Yeah advocating a search and rescue makes one a troll.  Best just to light a candle and change one's Facebook profile picture. 

Having spent a good deal of time talking to the person who oversees search and rescue on the lake, I can assure you they know a hell of a lot more about the chances of recovery and risks to those involved than you do. If you think they do one search and rescue a week  or a day, you are way off.  They don’t need practice. This sailor is not the only person who will drown on the lake this week, just the only one you know of. Cheeky Rafiki is a great example of a search going on too long and putting people at risk because of powerful people making requests.

 

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Stop! Out of respect for the lost sailor his family and those that searched for him …. Please STOP.

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28 minutes ago, jzk said:

Yeah advocating a search and rescue makes one a troll.  Best just to light a candle and change one's Facebook profile picture. 

Go away George. This is not the time or place. 

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The crew on my boat are incredible mariners and human beings and should be very proud of themselves. We were running search grids for around 3 hours I think. Conditions were 20kts sustained gusting to 26 in the search area. Waves were minumum 5 ft with 8-9ft sets rolling through.  You couldn't see anything in the  unless you were on top of it, including the deployed MOM-8. Wind was blowing hard enough to crease the inflatable pole over. This could've been because we didn't find/see it until approx 2 1/2 hours after it was deployed.  Being on a SAR is a weird shitty feeling.  All we wanted to do is find this person and get them home to their family.  If you see something in the water your adrenaline goes sky high in hopes that its what you are looking for and the MOB is going to be alive and well and stoked to see you.  We thought we found him at one brief point but it was a blue throwable.  Finding that, and then the MOM-8 gave us hope, but we were unable to find him.  For the safety of my crew, we retired from the search just before dusk, it was a very quiet ride in.  

Myself and my entire crew express our deepest sympathy for the family, friends and crewmates of the sailor lost yesterday.

 

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2 hours ago, tweaker said:

I have two friends on Imedi and haven’t spoken to one yet as I am sure they are in shock. At 66 years of age I have wound down my racing career. I am just not in the shape I used to be in. I can not swim in the water like I use to. I cannot imagine going into the water at my age with full foul weather gear and boots on and be able to keep my head out of water especially in those conditions. It was daytime Jon apparently had on his  PFD maybe no teather which is not unusual for daytime rough weather. Apparently his PFD didn’t inflate. The crew of Imedi responded expertly. The crew saw him slip under.  Could there have been a better MOB response NO. This is just a tragic accident and my heart goes out to family, friends and crew of Jon and Imedi.  There is a slight risk every time we go off shore of accidents happening. This story could very well be about me as I had an experience very similar to this one but with a lucky outcome. I didn’t go overboard but very nearly did in similar conditions. During one stormy Cabo race on Condor ( Andrews 68) I was driving during the day upwind and in the worst part of the storm, heavy rain 20-30 knots on the nose and 10+ foot waves. Minimum crew (5) on deck as most were down below staying out of the weather with many sea sick. A small head sail up no main doing 9-11 knots when a big side wave crashed over the deck. I wasn’t clipped in but did have on my PFD. I was nearly washed over but was able to barely hold on to the wheel. Could I have been recovered? Who knows? 

It is up to each one of us to maintain our safety gear, like packing a parachute,  if it don’t work it’s on us. Sometimes no mater what things don’t work right. I would like to think after my bad experience I would always clip on but each of one of us takes a measure of risk in everything decision we make but they are our decisions. 

Check your safety gear and when in doubt clip on and try  to stay on the boat. If not we live and die with our decisions. 

It seems Jon passed away doing what he loved. My heart felt simpathy goes out to his family, friends and the crew on Imedi. 

I wanted to say similar. Well said and, fuck. Horrible. Just takes a knock on the melon on the way in and well, that's all she wrote. I believe they did everything right and it just went sideways.

I just didn't feel it was my place to speculate.

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I participated in the search yesterday and it is time to speak up to counter all the arm chair quarter backs...

I made a no go decision with the boat owner (who brought me up to help with the race) Friday night due to rigging issues. I was sitting at the bar enjoying a dark and stormy when the MOB call came in. Staring me in the face was an 86’ Viking with a three level fly bridge. My first thought was that would be a great boat to help in the search. I decided to see if the owner and/or captain were on boat and ask if they’d be willing to help.

Both were on board, visiting from Florida, and immediately they agreed to assist in the search. We hailed the USCG, they gave coordinates, and we went out. The search grid was only 5 miles from CYC. USCG had us set up a 1.5 mile east/west and .2 mile south turn grid pattern. We did this until the USCG called off the search. 

I was on the fly bridge with binocs actively looking the entire time. The weather was ridiculous with breaking waves and spray from the waves were blowing over the top of fly bridge. After a couple of hours, I identified one target about 500 yards off our bow and my heart skipped a beat. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a black rubber fender.

There were over 20 boats and three helicopters out there running crossing grids over nearly 50 square miles.

Until you have done a search pattern in weather, you have no clue what it is like search for a needle in a haystack. And completely impossible to locate any targets at night in those conditions. The Imedi team continued to search well past the USCG calling off the search (after nearly 8 hours).

It was sobering, and if you weren’t out there, keep your bullshit speculation to yourself.

A huge thank you to David who owns the Viking 86 (pictured) for not hesitating to go out and burn $1000’s in fuel to helo in the search.

0BC1701E-AB0A-44C5-8A83-44D75F2AEA96.jpeg

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57 minutes ago, sailjunke said:

I participated in the search yesterday and it is time to speak up to counter all the arm chair quarter backs...

I made a no go decision with the boat owner (who brought me up to help with the race) Friday night due to rigging issues. I was sitting at the bar enjoying a dark and stormy when the MOB call came in. Staring me in the face was an 86’ Viking with a three level fly bridge. My first thought was that would be a great boat to help in the search. I decided to see if the owner and/or captain were on boat and ask if they’d be willing to help.

Both were on board, visiting from Florida, and immediately they agreed to assist in the search. We hailed the USCG, they gave coordinates, and we went out. The search grid was only 5 miles from CYC. USCG had us set up a 1.5 mile east/west and .2 mile south turn grid pattern. We did this until the USCG called off the search. 

I was on the fly bridge with binocs actively looking the entire time. The weather was ridiculous with breaking waves and spray from the waves were blowing over the top of fly bridge. After a couple of hours, I identified one target about 500 yards off our bow and my heart skipped a beat. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a black rubber fender.

There were over 20 boats and three helicopters out there running crossing grids over nearly 50 square miles.

Until you have done a search pattern in weather, you have no clue what it is like search for a needle in a haystack. And completely impossible to locate any targets at night in those conditions. The Imedi team continued to search well past the USCG calling off the search (after nearly 8 hours).

It was sobering, and if you weren’t out there, keep your bullshit speculation to yourself.

A huge thank you to David who owns the Viking 86 (pictured) for not hesitating to go out and burn $1000’s in fuel to helo in the search.

0BC1701E-AB0A-44C5-8A83-44D75F2AEA96.jpeg

 

IMG_20180722_184624.jpg

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Prayers to the family.   

 

Thank you to the folks who put their own neck on the line to do the search.

 

 

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Well done DC. Horrible scenario. Positive that Family and friends appreciate the efforts of all who all who assisted in the SAR.

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10 hours ago, jzk said:

Its true.  A night search would have been by all accounts futile.  But what about the 1% chance?  We pay the CPD to blast around Chicago like fucking cowboys burning fuel and throwing up wakes on Sunday afternoons.  CPD helicopters buzz the playpen tooting their sirens presumably looking for titties really creating a dangerous situation.   They can go out and search at night.  It would not be "risking lives" any more than all the mac racers risking their lives for a sailboat race.  They are professionals.  This is what they do.  So fucking do it.

Please take off your bonnet and let that bee fly away.  

You sure know what you think, I''ll say that.  But you're hostility to whose who might actually be doing the rescue sure doesn't give them any encouragement to go above and beyond.  Did one of those "cowboys" once spill your drink or something?

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50 minutes ago, ghannan98 said:

Well done DC. Horrible scenario. Positive that Family and friends appreciate the efforts of all who all who assisted in the SAR.

Thanks, Jorge. I couldn’t just sit around. I’ll be at the club Wednesday night and fill you guys in.

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14 hours ago, jzk said:

I do know that right this minute there are more law enforcement units patrolling navy pier than looking for this poor guy, and I think that sucks. You are free, of course, to make excuses. 

 

Seriously have you ever done a SINGLE SAR CASE?  I have five years of duty doing just this exact thing.  You're comments are truly clueless, and when presented with the facts you continue to double down.  Once of the hardest calls to make is when to call off the search.  This entire ordeal is horrible, but honestly short of the weather you couldn't have hoped for a better scenario, lots of boats around, near shore, plenty of assets to assist already on scene.  If there was any chance of him being found the odds where in his favor, however even the crew have stated they saw him slip under the water and not come back up.  Its just a horrible scene and my thoughts go out to his family and friends losing someone in this manor sucks.  

 

I am certain in the days and weeks to come, there will be more information about this event and the events leading up to it. Hopefully people will learn from it and make the proper changes moving forward like was done with the Wing-Nut incident a few years back.  

 

 

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this is why you should wear a harness.thoughts to the family god speed my freind.

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15 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

Who are these arse clowns that know more about the conditions on the water from the comfort of their moms basements than the actual sailors and rescue professionals? I

Only one ass clown is claiming anything like that.  The vast majority of posters understand.  Thanks to all of you for posting.

Matt Knighton was a longtime crew aboard IMEDI and he is leading the effort to produce a video tribute to Jon.  If anyone has any short video or good photos of Jon, post them here or give me a shout if you want to stay anonymous.  

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15 minutes ago, Trendsetter said:

 

Seriously have you ever done a SINGLE SAR CASE?  I have five years of duty doing just this exact thing.  You're comments are truly clueless, and when presented with the facts you continue to double down.  Once of the hardest calls to make is when to call off the search.  This entire ordeal is horrible, but honestly short of the weather you couldn't have hoped for a better scenario, lots of boats around, near shore, plenty of assets to assist already on scene.  If there was any chance of him being found the odds where in his favor, however even the crew have stated they saw him slip under the water and not come back up.  Its just a horrible scene and my thoughts go out to his family and friends losing someone in this manor sucks.  

 

I am certain in the days and weeks to come, there will be more information about this event and the events leading up to it. Hopefully people will learn from it and make the proper changes moving forward like was done with the Wing-Nut incident a few years back.  

 

 

I agree that there was a 99.9% chance that any search would be futile.  Search anyway.  Searching that area just isn't that hard.  If we can afford to fly choppers over the playen to see the ladies, we can afford to send them over this area.  The other law enforcemnet units blast all over the navy pier area regularly.  Just for this day, have them roam the search area.  Just keep looking.

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080311-fair_winds.jpg

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10 minutes ago, fyschebone said:

USCG operational costs eff. 2015.  Likely gone up since then.    

USCG operation rates.JPG

I submit that there would not be much marginal increase in overall cost if boats and some aircraft were directed towards this search.  There were boats out yesterday tooling around Navy pier.  How much more would it have cost for them to tool around the search area?  How much would it have cost to take off one day of playpen paperwork checking to tool around the search area?  CPD sends up its choppers just to fly around DuSable and the playpen on Sunday afternoon during no emergency situation.  What is the purpose of those flights?  Direct some of those flight hours towards flying over the search area.  And for a private boat to go out there and look around, the cost is an afternoon of boating and maybe a few gallons of diesel.  Not such a big cost when you consider a fellow sailor is still out there.  

Keep the hate going all you want, but I say we keep looking.

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15 hours ago, TripleZeros said:

The crew on my boat are incredible mariners and human beings and should be very proud of themselves. We were running search grids for around 3 hours I think. Conditions were 20kts sustained gusting to 26 in the search area. Waves were minumum 5 ft with 8-9ft sets rolling through.  You couldn't see anything in the  unless you were on top of it, including the deployed MOM-8. Wind was blowing hard enough to crease the inflatable pole over. This could've been because we didn't find/see it until approx 2 1/2 hours after it was deployed.  Being on a SAR is a weird shitty feeling.  All we wanted to do is find this person and get them home to their family.  If you see something in the water your adrenaline goes sky high in hopes that its what you are looking for and the MOB is going to be alive and well and stoked to see you.  We thought we found him at one brief point but it was a blue throwable.  Finding that, and then the MOM-8 gave us hope, but we were unable to find him.  For the safety of my crew, we retired from the search just before dusk, it was a very quiet ride in.  

Myself and my entire crew express our deepest sympathy for the family, friends and crewmates of the sailor lost yesterday.

 

this was chilling and heart wrenching to read. Thank you for your efforts. 

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This is heartbreaking news.

My thoughts are with the families, friends of the lost one and for the valiant crews that searched as long as they did. 

The Chicago Mac and racing in general has seen it's share of tragedy of late. Our sailing community is weary of such news.

Too often Lake Michigan's beauty masks its quick and unforgiving cruelty.

Godspeed.

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, jzk said:

I submit that there would not be much marginal increase in overall cost if boats and some aircraft were directed towards this search.  There were boats out yesterday tooling around Navy pier.  How much more would it have cost for them to tool around the search area?  How much would it have cost to take off one day of playpen paperwork checking to tool around the search area?  CPD sends up its choppers just to fly around DuSable and the playpen on Sunday afternoon during no emergency situation.  What is the purpose of those flights?  Direct some of those flight hours towards flying over the search area.  And for a private boat to go out there and look around, the cost is an afternoon of boating and maybe a few gallons of diesel.  Not such a big cost when you consider a fellow sailor is still out there.  

Keep the hate going all you want, but I say we keep looking.

Dude the eyewitness report is that he went under almost immediately.  An airplane isn’t going to let one see underwater.  People did the best possible job they could.  You. Come off as a complete asshole.  

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4 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

Dude the eyewitness report is that he went under almost immediately.  An airplane isn’t going to let one see underwater.  People did the best possible job they could.  You. Come off as a complete asshole.  

I am the asshole that wants to keep looking for the guy even though, as you say, the chances of finding him are near 0.  He is still out there.  We should keep looking.  We should divert the playpen resources to looking for this guy. 

He deserves it.

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Your right we need to deploy 5000 navy seal and sonar to search for him.  Unfortunately his body may never be recovered.  Make Michigan holds thousands I’m certain.  You are diminishing the memory of this man and if the family gave a shit about your comments they’d tell you to shut up.  You’re an attention whore.

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5 minutes ago, jzk said:

I am the asshole that wants to keep looking for the guy even though, as you say, the chances of finding him are near 0.  He is still out there.  We should keep looking.  We should divert the playpen resources to looking for this guy. 

He deserves it.

Are you out looking - or are you just jerking off at your keyboard?

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1 minute ago, Christian said:

Are you out looking - or are you just jerking off at your keyboard?

Is that a serious question?

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2 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

Your right we need to deploy 5000 navy seal and sonar to search for him.  Unfortunately his body may never be recovered.  Make Michigan holds thousands I’m certain.  You are diminishing the memory of this man and if the family gave a shit about your comments they’d tell you to shut up.  You’re an attention whore.

The attention whores are well visible on this forum.  I just think we should keep looking for the guy.  

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