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Harley-Davidson moves work offshore: Thanks Trump!

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Facing higher costs from tariffs, Harley-Davidson said it is shifting production of motorcycles sold to European customers from the United States to another site offshore.

The European Union imposed tariffs on a range of US products in response to similar levies that President Donald Trump put on steel and aluminum from Europe. The EU tariffs will add $US2200 ($3000) to the cost of an average motorcycle, threatening "an immediate and lasting detrimental impact to its business," the company said on Monday in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

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2 minutes ago, Lying Malarky said:

Harley were always going to move, now they have someone to blame.

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So, are Harley riders going to ditch the leather and cosplay as Thai transvestites now?

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36 minutes ago, Lying Malarky said:

Harley were always going to move, now they have someone to blame.

Multi-nationalizing is nothing new and follows the script of most of the major automakers. However, being spurred on to make the move that Harely might not otherwise have had to make, due to tariffs and not wage increase is a sad joke. Capital flight due to rising wages and costs has been a battle fought by most developed nations for the last 50 years. To trigger more of it, without appropriate corporate tax cuts or inducements is ill thought, short sighted and resulting in the complete opposite result that was intended by these protectionist policies. The domestic worker loses when they didn't have to. 

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Dont think this will make any difference to real harley riders, all the genuine bikes have already been made. All the modern stuff is for fat fuck accountants.

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13 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

Dont think this will make any difference to real harley riders, all the genuine bikes have already been made. All the modern stuff is for fat fuck accountants.

You saying that if it doesn't leak oil, it's not a real Harley?

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Still waiting for Bikers for Trump to start taking sledgehammers to their hogs. 

Come on people, make a statement!

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48 minutes ago, Mid said:

Untitled.jpg.7036bf222b25660562b64851b6ceadd9.jpg

Damned if that doesn't read like a direct threat to me.

Basically, if H-D dares to set up in another country, Trump plans on taxing them extra as a penalty. That should work real well - what's he going to do, apply 500% tariffs to imported H-D bikes?

Could be a lot of amusement from all this.

FKT

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3 hours ago, Mid said:

Untitled.jpg.7036bf222b25660562b64851b6ceadd9.jpg

except they were already being built in Brazil , India and parts are manufactured in Taiwan, Germany and Japan

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11 minutes ago, dacapo said:

except they were already being built in Brazil , India and parts are manufactured in Taiwan, Germany and Japan

I guess that's why they announced these changes?  Do you think?

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ4_3N7AILPJ6CBXkZuGu-

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5 hours ago, random said:

Facing higher costs from tariffs, Harley-Davidson said it is shifting production of motorcycles sold to European customers from the United States to another site offshore.

The European Union imposed tariffs on a range of US products in response to similar levies that President Donald Trump put on steel and aluminum from Europe. The EU tariffs will add $US2200 ($3000) to the cost of an average motorcycle, threatening "an immediate and lasting detrimental impact to its business," the company said on Monday in a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

 

 

Not to mention Thailand. Why do you think they are moving production there? DUH. Thanks, Obama! 

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Harley management owes it to their employees and shareholders to maximize profits. Sure US employees get screwed but Europeans will get hired. Basically a wash if you look at it on a global basis. This should make the Dems happy since they don't believe in borders and feel that people should be able to move wherever that want. 

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6 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Still waiting for Bikers for Trump to start taking sledgehammers to their hogs. 

Come on people, make a statement!

They already made it BJ, Gutterblack already set the record straight and the orange one has them all lapping it up.  

"Dont think this will make any difference to real harley riders, all the genuine bikes have already been made. All the modern stuff is for fat fuck accountants."

 

They were all ready dead and buried, all the real ones are already made apparently....  So that gives the Hell's Angels  cover and trump putting the death knell on them by making em out to be traitors and not worth anyone's time.  They quit after all, so let them and all their employees, customers and suppliers, as well as their families go to hell...  Un american i tells you, un american...  

 

Fucking sad regardless of who the company is and what their history has been within our boarders.   

 

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6 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Damned if that doesn't read like a direct threat to me.

Basically, if H-D dares to set up in another country, Trump plans on taxing them extra as a penalty. That should work real well - what's he going to do, apply 500% tariffs to imported H-D bikes?

Could be a lot of amusement from all this.

FKT

I do doubt that HD will import bikes. There is a strong world wide market that can be supplied from outside the US.  If this was in the Obama era, HD would also have announced a Headquatrers move to Ireland.

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HD sells less than 100K bikes outside the USA.

Honda sells about 20M.

Yeah - a strong world wide market for Harleys.  :lol:

They are a bit player.

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Harley-Davidson does not make motorcycles.  They make life styles.  The year I did some work on it, they made $560 million dollars, $25 million from making bikes.  The rest came from things like a $25 licencing fee for a Harley tattoo.  (not that anyone paid it)  With ratios like this, you can see that they are not a product company, they are a marketing company.  Their money comes from the bling and accessories at the dealerships and the H-D stores that don't sell motorcycles as well as online and third party.  The H-D store that doesn't sell motorcycles near me does very well. Only about 20% of what the bling supply chain sells is made in the US. (data is from a few years ago)

H-D has had the Aeromacchi factory in Italy since the sixties.  It would come as no surprise how much of the bike came from there, so to build in in Europe is no big jump. And yes, a H-D must leak oil.  Just look at the issue they had going to belt drive.  The engineers at H-D came up with a motor that was essentially two cylinders of the Cosworth Grand Prix engine.  Absolutely gorgeous, but not H-D material and so ended up on the shelf.

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15 minutes ago, Laker said:

Harley-Davidson does not make motorcycles.  They make life styles.  The year I did some work on it, they made $560 million dollars, $25 million from making bikes.  The rest came from things like a $25 licencing fee for a Harley tattoo.  (not that anyone paid it)  With ratios like this, you can see that they are not a product company, they are a marketing company.  Their money comes from the bling and accessories at the dealerships and the H-D stores that don't sell motorcycles as well as online and third party.  The H-D store that doesn't sell motorcycles near me does very well. Only about 20% of what the bling supply chain sells is made in the US. (data is from a few years ago)

H-D has had the Aeromacchi factory in Italy since the sixties.  It would come as no surprise how much of the bike came from there, so to build in in Europe is no big jump. And yes, a H-D must leak oil.  Just look at the issue they had going to belt drive.  The engineers at H-D came up with a motor that was essentially two cylinders of the Cosworth Grand Prix engine.  Absolutely gorgeous, but not H-D material and so ended up on the shelf.

<hijack>

I like bikes - but, I don't think I know which engine you're talking about? The VROD? 

</hijack>

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3 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

<hijack>

I like bikes - but, I don't think I know which engine you're talking about? The VROD? 

</hijack>

No, one that never saw the light of day.  Very limited press release.  The moment it appeared apparently, the marketing people came in and stopped the nonsense.  There was also a thought at the time then to start a new marque out of Italy making an up to date bike that would go up against Ducati, MotoGuzzi, etc., but the separate marketing hurdles were too big.  Haven't had any contact with them for at least 15 years.

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34 minutes ago, Laker said:

Harley-Davidson does not make motorcycles.  They make life styles.  The year I did some work on it, they made $560 million dollars, $25 million from making bikes.  The rest came from things like a $25 licencing fee for a Harley tattoo.  (not that anyone paid it)  With ratios like this, you can see that they are not a product company, they are a marketing company.  Their money comes from the bling and accessories at the dealerships and the H-D stores that don't sell motorcycles as well as online and third party.  The H-D store that doesn't sell motorcycles near me does very well. Only about 20% of what the bling supply chain sells is made in the US. (data is from a few years ago)

H-D has had the Aeromacchi factory in Italy since the sixties.  It would come as no surprise how much of the bike came from there, so to build in in Europe is no big jump. And yes, a H-D must leak oil.  Just look at the issue they had going to belt drive.  The engineers at H-D came up with a motor that was essentially two cylinders of the Cosworth Grand Prix engine.  Absolutely gorgeous, but not H-D material and so ended up on the shelf.

Motorcycles and Related Products Segment Results

$ in thousands

4th Quarter

Full-Year

2017

2016

% Change

2017

2016

% Change

Motorcycle Shipments (vehicles)

47,198

42,414

11.3

241,498

262,221

(7.9)

Revenue

           

 Motorcycles

$801,726

$685,047

17.0

$3,825,206

$4,122,113

(7.2)

 Parts & Accessories

$168,131

$169,445

(0.8)

$804,363

$842,637

(4.5)

 General Merchandise

$71,236

$72,919

(2.3)

$262,776

$284,583

(7.7)

Gross Margin Percent

30.9%

30.7%

0.2 pts.

33.6%

35.1%

(1.5) pts.

Operating Income 

$37,821

$9,271

307.9

$615,958

$773,406

(20.4)

Operating Margin Percent

3.6%

1.0%

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I cannot see the fancy H-D store near me only sells $262K in merchandise, and that is only one store.  You may have to look at the corporate site beyond "motorcycles and related product segment results".  The bling would be under a separate category.  Also, are the dollar figures in "1000s"?

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14 minutes ago, nacradriver said:

Didn't we discuss this sit out of this a while back? Or is this some new shinny object?

Not shiny new.  This would be in yr 2000 time frame.

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2 minutes ago, Laker said:

I cannot see the fancy H-D store near me only sells $262K in merchandise, and that is only one store.  You may have to look at the corporate site beyond "motorcycles and related product segment results".  The bling would be under a separate category.  Also, are the dollar figures in "1000s"?

Yes, I think the $ figures are probably thousands, in gross sales. Figs are from H-D site.

Motorcycles -$801,726,000

General merchandise (which probably includes clothing) - $71,236,000

If we assume radically opposite profit margins of 1% on motorcycles and 100% on clothing, the profit numbers are:

Motorcycles - $8,017,260

Clothing - $35,618,000

Which is probably not too far off. I don't think there's any question the clothing line has a higher profit margin than the motorcycle sales. In gross sales it's less than 10% though.

i suspect repair #s all go to the dealerships, except for parts sales. I didn't see a category that would include royalties and licensing...I suspect that might be a separate corporate entity held by H-D.

 

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I think the important process here is that what H-D sells is not an item, it is a culture and I believe they are very good at doing so.  My brother used to be involved with a company that made mountain bike parts.  They had 35 people down on the floor pushing out things like seat stalks, handle bars, steer horns, etc.  The profit from these people was equaled by the one person in the office that sold the t-shirts, riding chaps, etc.  It is a reality of the non-essential, non-industrial retail market.  Hobie is good at selling lifestyle over product for instance.  They haven't produced a Hobie 16 or 18 in ages and yet that is where the action is in their world.

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1 hour ago, Laker said:

No, one that never saw the light of day.  Very limited press release.  The moment it appeared apparently, the marketing people came in and stopped the nonsense.  There was also a thought at the time then to start a new marque out of Italy making an up to date bike that would go up against Ducati, MotoGuzzi, etc., but the separate marketing hurdles were too big.  Haven't had any contact with them for at least 15 years.

Their VR-1000 road racer wasn't that bad.  Pretty good looking also.  Wish that had gone into production.

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Just now, bridhb said:

Their VR-1000 road racer wasn't that bad.  Pretty good looking also.  Wish that had gone into production.

'Deed so.  I'd love 'em to put the VROD engine in a Buell-like chassis.  that's a real-world bike that'd run on the street with most of the Metric Liter Bikes. 

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

'Deed so.  I'd love 'em to put the VROD engine in a Buell-like chassis.  that's a real-world bike that'd run on the street with most of the Metric Liter Bikes. 

My last "light weight" race bike in WERA a few years ago was a  Buell XB12R......it was.....um.....interesting to ride.

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34 minutes ago, bridhb said:

Their VR-1000 road racer wasn't that bad.  Pretty good looking also.  Wish that had gone into production.

It was a good looking bike. It never was up to speed though IIRC. HD brought in some good riding talent but IIRC made some less than ideal engineering decisions.

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4 hours ago, warbird said:

It was a good looking bike. It never was up to speed though IIRC. HD brought in some good riding talent but IIRC made some less than ideal engineering decisions.

Well, it still had to be a Harley :-).  Yes, they had some talent.....frikin Canadians! (kidding, but to keep this political, but it was amusing!)  Finally an American, complete with fringe cowboy leathers.  It was a good looking bike though, and considering that it was something very different for them, and they really didn't put the effort into i tthat it deserved, it did pretty good.   Will never forgive Harley for what they did to Buell though.  It seems they have a rather brutal business practice.

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MAGA.

What fucking ignorant morons his supporters are.

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And when Harley moves some of its Milwaukee  production offshore those $14 an hour assembly jobs at Foxconn will surely fill the gap left by those family-supporting, unionized Harley jobs.  MAGA

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39 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

And when Harley moves some of its Milwaukee  production offshore those $14 an hour assembly jobs at Foxconn will surely fill the gap left by those family-supporting, unionized Harley jobs.  MAGA

Foxconn...WI gave them $200,000 in state tax credits per job, if they deliver all the jobs promised which is unlikely. Sounds like Gov Walker wants to bankrupt the state. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/1080214001

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33 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Foxconn...WI gave them $200,000 in state tax credits per job, if they deliver all the jobs promised which is unlikely. Sounds like Gov Walker wants to bankrupt the state. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/1080214001

So far, the state local, county and federal giveaways come to just over $4 billion.  Anything bought in WI for the plant is exempt from state sales tax. If all 13000 jobs materialize (quite unlikely as you point out) it will take decades for that $4 billion to turn profitable.  And where are those 13000 workers coming from? 

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43 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

 

So far, the state local, county and federal giveaways come to just over $4 billion.  Anything bought in WI for the plant is exempt from state sales tax. If all 13000 jobs materialize (quite unlikely as you point out) it will take decades for that $4 billion to turn profitable.  And where are those 13000 workers coming from? 

I doubt people are going to flock to Wisconsin for $14/hr factory jobs.  This whole thing is just a con-job...has anyone looked to see if Foxconn has donated to Walker?

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

I doubt people are going to flock to Wisconsin for $14/hr factory jobs.  This whole thing is just a con-job...has anyone looked to see if Foxconn has donated to Walker?

So far as I can tell, and I haven't looked that closely, there are no contributions directly from Foxconn owners or execs to Walker's re-election campaign.  But that does not mean that there aren't PACs or other indirect contributions funded by Foxconn.  An interesting aside is that construction companies and suppliers, electricians, plumbing contractors, etc. who have contributed to Walker's campaigns in the past have picked up quite a bit of the construction and supply work for the plant.

 

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On 6/27/2018 at 4:58 PM, Gutterblack said:

Dont think this will make any difference to real harley riders, all the genuine bikes have already been made. All the modern stuff is for fat fuck accountants.

And fat fuck wannabe Bikers. As Laker pointed out people who buy HD's are swept up in brand association. If you are truly into the joy of riding Motorcycle's the last thing you would buy would be a POS Harley- no matter when or where it was built.

Trump would look great on one.

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47 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

And fat fuck wannabe Bikers. As Laker pointed out people who buy HD's are swept up in brand association. If you are truly into the joy of riding Motorcycle's the last thing you would buy would be a POS Harley- no matter when or where it was built.

Trump would look great on one.

Thats pretty much true, all HD is now, is another corporate monster cashing in on olde worlde sentiment and baby boomers with a few bucks. But King Kenny learnt his shit flat tracking and HD do have a certain appeal in that arena. I quite like the idea of a big old vintage pig with lots of chrome to take out on Sundays, but as far as a real bike no. Give me virtually any litre sportsbike or big adventure type from any manufacturer.

 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

And fat fuck wannabe Bikers. As Laker pointed out people who buy HD's are swept up in brand association. If you are truly into the joy of riding Motorcycle's the last thing you would buy would be a POS Harley- no matter when or where it was built.

Trump would look great on one.

Though slightly off topic, I would tend to agree. :lol:

Back on topic: The majority of their profits come from fashion accessories, which are already made in Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Thailand, etc. Harley has been setting up production off-shore for many years now. That horse bolted long ago. 

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2 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

Thats pretty much true, all HD is now, is another corporate monster cashing in on olde worlde sentiment and baby boomers with a few bucks. But King Kenny learnt his shit flat tracking and HD do have a certain appeal in that arena. I quite like the idea of a big old vintage pig with lots of chrome to take out on Sundays, but as far as a real bike no. Give me virtually any litre sportsbike or big adventure type from any manufacturer.

 

King Kenny?

 

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