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SailBlueH2O

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Jeepers....that is good news....and unexpected I would think. Quite a survival story but it sounds like now that they are found they still have some daunting issues to figure out in order to finally complete the rescue.

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Mrs PB and I did a cave dive in the Cenotes in Yucatan - Dos Ojos. It was...........dark...........and a little unsettling........and that was a guided dive in a well explored cave rated as an easy dive. Although the "guideline" left me a little wanting in confidence. :huh: Pic is Mrs PB. Flash didn't carry very far..........

Much respect for these rescuers..............

Dos Ojos Cenotes 137.jpg

Dos Ojos Cenotes 146.jpg

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Spelunking above and under the water no thanks...I bow to the well trained and disciplined rescuers...and can only imagine the feeling of the first rescuer to set eyes on the cold ,huddled group...this is humanities  common denominator ...

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21 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Spelunking above and under the water no thanks...I bow to the well trained and disciplined rescuers...and can only imagine the feeling of the first rescuer to set eyes on the cold ,huddled group...this is humanities  common denominator ...

I have been affiliated and participated in several international rescue drills and efforts. I am continually amazed at the quality and consistency of the human effort and desire to rescue people in mortal danger. Makes me proud to be human.

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However they can get them out, whether draining the cave or via rescue divers, matters not to me as long as they get out safe.

But, as a recreational diver, I take an interest in dive rescues though I would never enter a cave beyond its cavern opening.  And if it's a long cave dive to "dive" them out, there's risk in that. 

I hope their last flashlight hadn't gone out.  Waiting there in the dark for almost ten days??  Aaack.

 

But what great news!  I had hoped for the best.

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Apparently there is some considerations relative to rehabbing them in place before a dive extrication is attempted because they are pretty weak and rattled or take the risk and bring right out. Land teams are looking for easier ways on as well. It is far from over.

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4 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Apparently there is some considerations relative to rehabbing them in place before a dive extrication is attempted because they are pretty weak and rattled or take the risk and bring right out. Land teams are looking for easier ways on as well. It is far from over.

Hard part is over....IMO...all the rescued will be fed...98.6....in wet suits with either their own SCUBA or with a buddy breath escort...with back up support all along the way out ...these are Boy Scouts....it is all part of their way of thinking....this is a wonderful story

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I missed something. How did these fellows get into that situation?   There's no judgement and I share gratitude for the valor associated with getting these kids home.

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7 minutes ago, atoyot said:

I missed something. How did these fellows get into that situation?   There's no judgement and I share gratitude for the valor associated with getting these kids home.

I am not certain...but think they were exploring/hiking in caves that became flooded and they were lucky to have found safe ground...

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No telling them it was a really dumb idea until they've been safe at home at least a month, 'kay??

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Read- Shibumi

 

A classic spy novel from the bestselling author, Trevanian, about a westerner raised in Japan who becomes one of the world's most accomplished assassins

Nicholai Hel is the world’s most wanted man. Born in Shanghai during the chaos of World War I, he is the son of an aristocratic Russian mother and a mysterious German father and is the protégé of a Japanese Go master. Hel survived the destruction of Hiroshima to emerge as the world’s most artful lover and its most accomplished—and well-paid—assassin. Hel is a genius, a mystic, and a master of language and culture, and his secret is his determination to attain a rare kind of personal excellence, a state of effortless perfection known only as shibumi.

Now living in an isolated mountain fortress with his exquisite mistress, Hel is unwillingly drawn back into the life he’d tried to leave behind when a beautiful young stranger arrives at his door, seeking help and refuge. It soon becomes clear that Hel is being tracked by his most sinister enemy—a supermonolith of international espionage known only as the Mother Company. The battle lines are drawn: ruthless power and corruption on one side, and on the other . . . shibumi.

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27 minutes ago, warbird said:

Read- Shibumi

 

A classic spy novel from the bestselling author, Trevanian, about a westerner raised in Japan who becomes one of the world's most accomplished assassins

Nicholai Hel is the world’s most wanted man. Born in Shanghai during the chaos of World War I, he is the son of an aristocratic Russian mother and a mysterious German father and is the protégé of a Japanese Go master. Hel survived the destruction of Hiroshima to emerge as the world’s most artful lover and its most accomplished—and well-paid—assassin. Hel is a genius, a mystic, and a master of language and culture, and his secret is his determination to attain a rare kind of personal excellence, a state of effortless perfection known only as shibumi.

Now living in an isolated mountain fortress with his exquisite mistress, Hel is unwillingly drawn back into the life he’d tried to leave behind when a beautiful young stranger arrives at his door, seeking help and refuge. It soon becomes clear that Hel is being tracked by his most sinister enemy—a supermonolith of international espionage known only as the Mother Company. The battle lines are drawn: ruthless power and corruption on one side, and on the other . . . shibumi.

I read it in the late 70's....what I rmember most was espousing a simple minimalist lifestyle...do I remember correctly ?...aside form the storyline

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Kids may be in the cave for some time yet.  NBC News story:

 

Quote

Rescuers may have found the 12 schoolboys and their soccer coach who had been trapped in a Thai cave complex for nine days, but the team's ordeal is far from over.

The group could be stuck in the cave "up to three or four months," Ben Reymenants, a locally based diving instructor who is assisting with the effort, told NBC News on Tuesday. Two Thai Navy doctors have volunteered to be "locked up" in the cave with the team, he added.

 
 

Two other complications: Heavy rains forecast for northern Thailand could exacerbate flooding in the cave, and the boys do not know how to swim.

 

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I've been watching this with interest and I'm very glad they were able to find the group. Hopefully they will be able to get out without too much drama. Now that they can be resupplied, boredom is hopefully their biggest challenge. 

There are caves in the US that are mostly dry, but have a water entry that is only accessible at certain water levels. One in Missouri that I did a spelunking trip into you entered via a stream in canoes. There was just enough room for the relatively flat topped canoe to transit through the opening. You laid down in the canoe on your back and used your hands to pull yourself and your gear into the cave. Once on the other side the cave opened up to a much larger area. The guides then showed us where the stash of supplies were. If I recall, there was a month or so of provisions for a 10 or so person group and it was located 20 or so feet above the cave floor on a ledge. 

The guides indicated that it was rare that groups were stuck in the cave, but it did happen occasionally. They were really careful to schedule trips around heavy rain storms. 

Very cool cave and I'm glad I was able to go on that trip. It had several passages where you had to go completely underwater to transit between rooms. Several mud tunnels between that were not for the claustrophobic, but a lot of fun if you're not.

 

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2 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Kids may be in the cave for some time yet.  NBC News story:

 

 

It’s a pretty thorny problem. With the rains they are predicting they may just have to swim them out. But it’s a frigging mile swim reportedly with some very narrow passages.....very narrow......and currents.....it’s far from an easy swim for trained adult divers. There is no way they are gonna have 12 year old kids who do not swim to manage a regulator......wonder if they have any of those sub escape full face rigs available to them.......

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2 hours ago, Slick470 said:

I've been watching this with interest and I'm very glad they were able to find the group. Hopefully they will be able to get out without too much drama. Now that they can be resupplied, boredom is hopefully their biggest challenge. 

There are caves in the US that are mostly dry, but have a water entry that is only accessible at certain water levels. One in Missouri that I did a spelunking trip into you entered via a stream in canoes. There was just enough room for the relatively flat topped canoe to transit through the opening. You laid down in the canoe on your back and used your hands to pull yourself and your gear into the cave. Once on the other side the cave opened up to a much larger area. The guides then showed us where the stash of supplies were. If I recall, there was a month or so of provisions for a 10 or so person group and it was located 20 or so feet above the cave floor on a ledge. 

The guides indicated that it was rare that groups were stuck in the cave, but it did happen occasionally. They were really careful to schedule trips around heavy rain storms. 

Very cool cave and I'm glad I was able to go on that trip. It had several passages where you had to go completely underwater to transit between rooms. Several mud tunnels between that were not for the claustrophobic, but a lot of fun if you're not.

 

When we dove the cenote the entrance was quite a ways up a rutted dirt road in the jungle. You could hardly tell if you didn’t know where it was. The frigging mosquitos and other biting bugs were SO BAD that once out of the Jeep, I never got dressed and into the water so fast in my life! Even so we got eaten......

Its very odd to be putting on scuba gear out of the back of a Jeep in the middle of the jungle.....very odd....

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A Thai Navy diver has died while working in the “tunnel” to place tanks in case of a rescue need. 

Respect sir. 

Fair winds.

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5 hours ago, Point Break said:

A Thai Navy diver has died while working in the “tunnel” to place tanks in case of a rescue need. 

Respect sir. 

Fair winds.

Yeah, I just saw that too.  Very sad.  And the article I read said he was doing it as a "volunteer" rather than as an official duty.

Also latest is there is a new urgency to get the kids out in the next 48 hours with new heavy rains coming.  This is not good.  http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-06/desperate-push-to-free-boys-from-thai-cave-within-48-hours/9946754

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On 7/3/2018 at 6:12 PM, Point Break said:

It’s a pretty thorny problem. With the rains they are predicting they may just have to swim them out. But it’s a frigging mile swim reportedly with some very narrow passages.....very narrow......and currents.....it’s far from an easy swim for trained adult divers. There is no way they are gonna have 12 year old kids who do not swim to manage a regulator......wonder if they have any of those sub escape full face rigs available to them.......

I was wondering about military re breathers...whether that might be less intimidating for the inexperienced kids  ???

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14 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I was wondering about military re breathers...whether that might be less intimidating for the inexperienced kids  ???

Not sure. Depth shouldn’t be a problem but it takes the divers 6 hours to make the trip. Not sure what the duration of the modern rebreathers are. Also.....it’s been a long time (no strike that, a long long time) so perhaps the technonology is better....but the air was always kinda icky tasting and a bit warm....maybe freak the kids out? If the current technology matches the conditions, I’m sure they’ve thought about it. 

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On 7/3/2018 at 6:16 PM, Point Break said:

When we dove the cenote the entrance was quite a ways up a rutted dirt road in the jungle. You could hardly tell if you didn’t know where it was. The frigging mosquitos and other biting bugs were SO BAD that once out of the Jeep, I never got dressed and into the water so fast in my life! Even so we got eaten......

Its very odd to be putting on scuba gear out of the back of a Jeep in the middle of the jungle.....very odd....

Yeah, this was without any scuba gear, but it was also surreal to be hauling canoes up a hill in a forest and dropping them into a relatively small pool. Caves are pretty cool like that. 

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Long swim from Wales to Thailand. First words "Prynhawn Da. Ydych chi wedi gweld ein merlod?" 

Have you seen our pony?

 

 

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On 7/4/2018 at 6:12 AM, Point Break said:

It’s a pretty thorny problem. With the rains they are predicting they may just have to swim them out. But it’s a frigging mile swim reportedly with some very narrow passages.....very narrow......and currents.....it’s far from an easy swim for trained adult divers. There is no way they are gonna have 12 year old kids who do not swim to manage a regulator......wonder if they have any of those sub escape full face rigs available to them.......

Maybe... I'm just throwing this out there...they could sedate them  and two guys to one kid swim them out and wake them up once they are out,,,maybe  they could rig up some sort of tow bag, pull the kid feet first and the guy tailing could monitor the kids breathing and hold the kids tank 

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21 minutes ago, captpiratedog said:

Maybe... I'm just throwing this out there...they could sedate them  and two guys to one kid swim them out and wake them up once they are out,,,maybe  they could rig up some sort of tow bag, pull the kid feet first and the guy tailing could monitor the kids breathing and hold the kids tank 

I think you're on the right track.

Or howabout bringing in a bunch of Bangkok whores, one to the man, and perform an impromptu subterranean marriage ceremony in the dim light.

Then, when each marriage is complete, turn on some bright, generator-powered Klieg lights, so that everyone can get a good look at their new life partner, including all appendages. Statistically, 85% of them will run/swim/claw for the surface, no need for additional complexities. The remaining 15% may choose to remain underground in wedded bliss.

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Ibu is that you? most would say!  however...i dont really think they are going to have a big as problem as they are stressing.. if all goes well and there are no equipment malfunctions, kids are generally fairly brave, they went into the cave  knowing it was the momma forbids you to go in there cave.. got stuck , now want to get out. generally, kids with an adult with them feel safe and the whole thing may very well be treated as an adventure rather than hazard..knowing all the totally hazardous shit I have done thinking it was adventurous I'd have been ready yesterday to do the dive out if I was there as a 12 yo kid... 

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

I think you're on the right track.

Or howabout bringing in a bunch of Bangkok whores, one to the man, and perform an impromptu subterranean marriage ceremony in the dim light.

Then, when each marriage is complete, turn on some bright, generator-powered Klieg lights, so that everyone can get a good look at their new life partner, including all appendages. Statistically, 85% of them will run/swim/claw for the surface, no need for additional complexities. The remaining 15% may choose to remain underground in wedded bliss.

Maybe a marriage counselor?

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5 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Maybe a marriage counselor?

For Mike? 

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19 hours ago, mad said:

For Mike? 

Thanks, but I have that covered, at least for the next 700 milliliters or so, give or take a few errant drops of water.

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About 2000 EST CNN on Sirius was reporting they were moving equipment and kicking reporters out.   They also had 13 ambulances on standby.     Hopefully good news soon?

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4 out so far.  All diving with assistance. Huge respect for the kids to do that and even more for the divers to train and then take them through a nasty dive.  Hope for more to be out soon.

 

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1 hour ago, Tunnel Rat said:

Update 6 out now :D

Sweet!  

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Interesting that the Thai PM is with the families right now. They have decided not to re unite the families nor tell them which children are safe and which still have to escape.

The families are showing solidarity in what must be an agonizing situation.

 

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32 minutes ago, fufkin said:

Interesting that the Thai PM is with the families right now. They have decided not to re unite the families nor tell them which children are safe and which still have to escape.

The families are showing solidarity in what must be an agonizing situation.

 

I can dig it...13 strong 

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14 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

I can dig it...13 strong 

News said they took the older/stronger ones out first so in theory....it will get a little tougher this next round with younger more fragile kids.

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2 hours ago, Point Break said:

News said they took the older/stronger ones out first so in theory....it will get a little tougher this next round with younger more fragile kids.

I read yesterday the plan was reversed.   Not sure what reality is.   I could see both ways.    I’m impressed by the solidarity instead of half the parents celebrating while the rest wait in fear. 

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7 minutes ago, Lark said:

I read yesterday the plan was reversed.   Not sure what reality is.   I could see both ways.    I’m impressed by the solidarity instead of half the parents celebrating while the rest wait in fear. 

News said the reason was fear of infection because the children’s immune systems are likely compromised from the prolonged deprivation. They are arranging a glass separation for the parents to see the children without exposing them. Not sure the solidarity thing is in play. 

The Thai govt is being pretty circumspect on the updates and unformation. Good for them.

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19 minutes ago, Point Break said:

News reports they are all out. WFD!

Truly!

I don't often use the term "Hero".  But these divers that got the kids out while risking their own lives are true heros!  

Details are emerging on how this was pulled off:

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/jul/10/thailand-cave-rescue-team-begin-operation-to-free-last-of-trapped-boys

709778815_Caverescue.PNG.61193bf3f3560295c1d79a13665e9a7a.PNG

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On 7/3/2018 at 9:40 AM, SailBlueH2O said:

I read it in the late 70's....what I rmember most was espousing a simple minimalist lifestyle...do I remember correctly ?...aside form the storyline

Spelunking to the outflow.

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Looking forward to the review (hoping they have one) or at least an overview of the operation. I've run some pretty big operations but nothing this complex....at least it seems complex to me......might just be that I'm totally unfamiliar with cave operations and have never run an extended dive rescue operation. There are a ton of logistic and operational questions I have. 

One for the cave divers here.........so they clearly staged tanks along the way as the operation would require multiple tanks for each person (I'd guess during the swim only operation before they got the tunnel improved at LEAST 10 per diver for the round trip). So how do they change out the tanks? My only experience is recreational diving (well....since about 1972 anyway so I imagine things have changed quite a bit) so......do they have a whole setup for each tank (BC, reg, second, gauges etc) or do you suppose they change just the tanks and move all their stuff over to the new tank? Is it quick connects now or standard recreational yoke fitting? When we need to change bottles, we have to leave the contaminated atmosphere to do it. Our version of the "safe second" for "buddy breathing" is a female quick connect that the guy you breath with just disconnects his (he'll have a male end on his hose then) and plug into the female quick connect. We practice the disconnect and hookup while blinded endlessly because it has to be second nature. So.............how does it work cave diving?

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Throughout all this I never saw the answer.  How in the heck did they get that far in before the thing flooded?  Did they shimmy through the choke points and use climbing gear to get past the cliffs that require full gear to get out??  Or did they come in a different way??  Pretty dumb thing to do with 11 yo in tow if they went in the same way they got out..  

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24 minutes ago, shaggy said:

Throughout all this I never saw the answer.  How in the heck did they get that far in before the thing flooded?  Did they shimmy through the choke points and use climbing gear to get past the cliffs that require full gear to get out??  Or did they come in a different way??  Pretty dumb thing to do with 11 yo in tow if they went in the same way they got out..  

A good question...but my question along that line of thinking is....so a coach/responsible adult and his soccer team went that deep into the unknown....I mean yeah...cool...lets go check out this cave...for the inexperienced a few hundred meters would be enough for me to get a feel for what it was like...but no lets go deeper and farther....just a walk on flat ground the distance they went into the unknown is head scratching ....anyway they sure got an adventure....after monsoon season it will be a huge clean up operation

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That coach has a lot to answer for.

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1 hour ago, SailBlueH2O said:

A good question...but my question along that line of thinking is....so a coach/responsible adult and his soccer team went that deep into the unknown....I mean yeah...cool...lets go check out this cave...for the inexperienced a few hundred meters would be enough for me to get a feel for what it was like...but no lets go deeper and farther....just a walk on flat ground the distance they went into the unknown is head scratching ....anyway they sure got an adventure....after monsoon season it will be a huge clean up operation

I can imagine a scenario of sheltering and exploring a cave either to cool down or to escape the rain,    The water blocks the exit and starts to rise, so you climb your way in looking for another way out,   Up and down either looking to escape, or at least to stay above the flooding water, until you can’t go any further.   

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7 minutes ago, Lark said:

I can imagine a scenario of sheltering and exploring a cave either to cool down or to escape the rain,    The water blocks the exit and starts to rise, so you climb your way in looking for another way out,   Up and down either looking to escape, or at least to stay above the flooding water, until you can’t go any further.   

Excellent observation...

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The heroes in this that no one is really talking about are the divers who found them originally.  In addition to the actual rescue Op, I'd really like to hear how they found them in the first place.  I recall hearing they were searching multiple branches of the cave spiderweb.  Going into the unknown took some incredible balls.  Not to take anything at all away from the divers who went back and forth to the kid's, but at least they had a known path.  The first ones in are insane.

Here's some info on the brits: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/10/family-british-diver-thai-cave-rescue-waiting-celebrate-car/

 

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7 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Best nuts and bolts explanation of the rescue I've read so far

https://apnews.com/a6901820d8b24de494222e31928f8c89

Holy moly, that’s a cool story. This is definitely going to make a blockbuster movie eithe made by Jerry Bruckheimer or Steven Spielberg. Wow!

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55 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Holy moly, that’s a cool story. This is definitely going to make a blockbuster movie eithe made by Jerry Bruckheimer or Steven Spielberg. Wow!

They didn't blow the cave up so Bruckheimer's out.

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6 hours ago, IStream said:
7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Holy moly, that’s a cool story. This is definitely going to make a blockbuster movie eithe made by Jerry Bruckheimer or Steven Spielberg. Wow!

They didn't blow the cave up so Bruckheimer's out.

Good point.

I'm still somewhat surprised that randumb didn't hypothesize a conspiracy and coverup story for why the kids were in the cave.  Maybe the soccer coach was a PLA intel operative and he was looking for where his people were stashed after MH370 "disappeared".  Or maybe the cave is a secret portal directly to DFG. 

In which case Oliver Stone would be the logical choice as director/producer.

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, the reason it took so long is the Seal Team had to move TONS of rocks gravel & sand, 

, to cover the plane so the kids wouldn't see it on the way out ,, 

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