Bende

Salvage advise appreciated

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so I am serously considering salvaging this Irma victem

 

She is a sturdy wreck, about 75ft, Allloy, with some serieus dents and a couple of ruptures on the portside, under the sand. in fact, she is lying on a cushion of sand and concrete rubble. weight estimate is about 45-55 tonnes

The waters in front are shallow and rocky crops prevent a cranebarge from getting close enough. However, there is just enough room between the rocks to possebly drag her off the beacht without canopening the entire hull. There is a small road behind the boat. But not big enough to bring in a mobile crane. And even if you can bring in a big enough crane, the road will not support at lift. The entire earia is pretty much built on a sandbank. Her bow proudly sticks about two meter into a house, wich in uninhabited right now. her arse is touching the other house, where two families live. Shes about 4 meters far and one meter hight from the floodline. After the floodline the waterdepth increases quite quick. i have not measured the draft yet, but i think she will float about 20-30 meter from the beach.

http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/hoffpeterdutchyacht/media/IMG_3289_zpsyqyjlei6.jpg.html?filters[user]=147269437&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=5

http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/hoffpeterdutchyacht/media/IMG_3289_zpsyqyjlei6.jpg.html?filters[user]=147269437&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=5

http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/hoffpeterdutchyacht/media/IMG_3289_zpsyqyjlei6.jpg.html?filters[user]=147269437&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=5

http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/hoffpeterdutchyacht/media/IMG_3289_zpsyqyjlei6.jpg.html?filters[user]=147269437&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=5

http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/hoffpeterdutchyacht/media/IMG_3289_zpsyqyjlei6.jpg.html?filters[user]=147269437&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=5

http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/hoffpeterdutchyacht/media/IMG_3289_zpsyqyjlei6.jpg.html?filters[user]=147269437&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&amp

/edit/ why wont the stupid photo's just show?

Firts the boat needs to come a bit more upright, to patch any tear and hole. or maybe just leave her like this and remove the sand underneath it section by section. to apply patches. The remainder of the main mast is quite strong and can be used as a strong point for some careening, given that i add another stay. At the same time take as much weight out of the boat a possible. Half the interior, empty tanks, engines.

I will make a ramp of old telephone poles and 10 meter sections of yachtmast. Streching from under the boat, until we hit some decent waterdepth. There are currently a lot of those on the island, pieces of mast that is. The sand is too sluggish to roll them, but i hope a ramp will let the aluminium hull slide. Using a lot of painstaking handdigging, i think it possible to get quite a couple of flat under the boat, making one tunnel after another to insert them.

When the ramp is finished, il have to remove as much sand as possible before brining in the big tugboat. Pulling her down the ramp arse first. Rudder and prop are not there, and below the waterline she is quite narrow aft. Now the houses are a bit of a problem. The house at the bow has quite some wiggelingspace, and the boat is not really hooked or leaning on it. neither is the house leaning on the boat. The house at the aft had a modest hole in the masonry wich is now closed again by the owner. But the cornor is a reinforeced concrete pilar, wich might get scraped or damaged when we start the tow. I might cut a piece of boat off.

offcourse, she can be cut up onsite, but id like to avoid that, its a cool boat. Bestcase scenario is to tow het off without damage, worst case scenario is is to colapse the two houses and sink the boat in the surf. Im sure everybody has a pieces of mind about the insurance, lawsuits and liability's. Quite frankly, unles your an propper expert on that, i do not want to hear it. That part will be covered.

 

So I have a rough plan, but I would like your feedback, espcially idea's when it comes to not using big equipment. Show me your craziest old-egyptian ideas. Tell me how you would think out of the box with this one,

 

cheers, Peter

 

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6 minutes ago, Bende said:

so I am serously considering salvaging this Irma victem

 

She is a sturdy wreck, about 75ft, Allloy, with some serieus dents and a couple of ruptures on the portside, under the sand. in fact, she is lying on a cushion of sand and concrete rubble. weight estimate is about 45-55 tonnes

The waters in front are shallow and rocky crops prevent a cranebarge from getting close enough. However, there is just enough room between the rocks to possebly drag her off the beacht without canopening the entire hull. There is a small road behind the boat. But not big enough to bring in a mobile crane. And even if you can bring in a big enough crane, the road will not support at lift. The entire earia is pretty much built on a sandbank. Her bow proudly sticks about two meter into a house, wich in uninhabited right now. her arse is touching the other house, where two families live. Shes about 4 meters far and one meter hight from the floodline. After the floodline the waterdepth increases quite quick. i have not measured the draft yet, but i think she will float about 20-30 meter from the beach.

 

http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/hoffpeterdutchyacht/media/IMG_3289_zpsyqyjlei6.jpg.html?filters[user]=147269437&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=5

http://s1376.photobucket.com/user/hoffpeterdutchyacht/media/IMG_3289_zpsyqyjlei6.jpg.html?filters[user]=147269437&filters[recent]=1&sort=1&o=5

 

 

 

 

(hope the photo's show)

 

Firts the boat needs to come a bit more upright, to patch any tear and hole. or maybe just leave her like this and remove the sand underneath it section by section. to apply patches. The remainder of the main mast is quite strong and can be used as a strong point for some careening, given that i add another stay. At the same time take as much weight out of the boat a possible. Half the interior, empty tanks, engines.

I will make a ramp of old telephone poles and 10 meter sections of yachtmast. Streching from under the boat, until we hit some decent waterdepth. There are currently a lot of those on the island, pieces of mast that is. The sand is too sluggish to roll them, but i hope a ramp will let the aluminium hull slide. Using a lot of painstaking handdigging, i think it possible to get quite a couple of flat under the boat, making one tunnel after another to insert them.

When the ramp is finished, il have to remove as much sand as possible before brining in the big tugboat. Pulling her down the ramp arse first. Rudder and prop are not there, and below the waterline she is quite narrow aft. Now the houses are a bit of a problem. The house at the bow has quite some wiggelingspace, and the boat is not really hooked or leaning on it. neither is the house leaning on the boat. The house at the aft had a modest hole in the masonry wich is now closed again by the owner. But the cornor is a reinforeced concrete pilar, wich might get scraped or damaged when we start the tow. I might cut a piece of boat off.

offcourse, she can be cut up onsite, but id like to avoid that, its a cool boat. Bestcase scenario is to tow het off without damage, worst case scenario is is to colapse the two houses and sink the boat in the surf. Im sure everybody has a pieces of mind about the insurance, lawsuits and liability's. Quite frankly, unles your an propper expert on that, i do not want to hear it. That part will be covered.

 

So I have a rough plan, but I would like your feedback, espcially idea's when it comes to not using big equipment. Show me your craziest old-egyptian ideas. Tell me how you would think out of the box with this one,

 

cheers, Peter

 

Sell ticket to watch....

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yeah, it does, hold on..

 

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2 hours ago, fastyacht said:

wow, photobucket s u c k s

In-fucking-deed. There is a two dollar google chrome app that sucks all your photobucket images down in one go. Best 8 quarters I've ever spent, worth it to get away from that steaming shithole of a website.

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The big problem will be to prevent her from rolling over on the ramp if she becomes supported only at the ends.

 

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Who cares if the road doesn't support the crane.  Likely the crane wouldn't do more than crack the pavement anyways.  Wouldn't that be preferable to having a boat there if somebody is willing to hire a crane to move the boat? 

I was just at my father-in-law's place in Beaufort, SC and we took a boat ride and saw three sailboats on the mud, left over from the last hurricane.  One is on the marsh in front of Parris Island.  Ripe for the picking if somebody was willing.

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Humm,

if you laid a few tele poles perpendicular to beach, to support her over the rocks a couple of medium caterpillars could manuver her around the houses and push her back in laterally.

And you'll probably have to add some ballast back in as she comes afloat.

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Using masts to support her is dumb. They will crumple. Masts are thin and not meant for sideways loads. Telephone poles, if wood, yeah OK.  If concrete NO. If steel maybe.

Do you now how big a tug you will need? Have you even guesstimated coeffic. of friction of the alloy hull sliding on wood (greased?) to make a guess on tug bollard pull. Do you understand how to avoid contamination with welding patches on an alum. hull?

Honestly if you're asking these questions here you are over your head.

Who owns the boat now? Old owner or insurance company? 

Maybe watch some videos of big ships being side launched. Might get some ideas.

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A ferro-cement boat went aground in La Paz during Odeal a few years ago.  Grounded in a marshy area, left partially afloat.  Still took weeks of laborious hand work (digging, securing float bladders, removing contents, etc etc) and LOTS of horsepower to move her.  Much more effort (both manpower and hours) than originally assumed.  And this was an undamaged vessel.

Make your realistic assessment of effort and cost, then double the cost, double the time number and go up one time unit (i.e. 2 days becomes 4 weeks) and you might get close to actuals.

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Get all the sand out of the hull before you try to move it.

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1 hour ago, Zonker said:

Using masts to support her is dumb. They will crumple. Masts are thin and not meant for sideways loads. Telephone poles, if wood, yeah OK.  If concrete NO. If steel maybe.

Do you now how big a tug you will need? Have you even guesstimated coeffic. of friction of the alloy hull sliding on wood (greased?) to make a guess on tug bollard pull. Do you understand how to avoid contamination with welding patches on an alum. hull?

Honestly if you're asking these questions here you are over your head.

Who owns the boat now? Old owner or insurance company? 

Maybe watch some videos of big ships being side launched. Might get some ideas.

Don't forget teh environmentally freindly grease. Bananas in the olden times (was it the Great Eastern launch that they told us about that with at school?

 

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We launched a big cruising ketch that had been grounded high and dry on a reef in Cruz Bay St John. I had first been blown on the beach right in the middle of town but then the next hurricane about 10 days later blew it off of that beach and all the way across the anchorage and up on the spit that formed the harbor. A buddy bought it and did a fine job of repairs right where she say. Took way longer that the condos he was right in front of agreed to but 6-7 months later right before 4th on July which was Carnival there, the Governor decided it was time to see if St John had ever gotten cleaned up from the previous seasons hurricanes. He had a fit when he saw the project boat still sitting high on the spit. He put out a decree that my friend had 72 hours to get it out of there or they would cut it up. The boat had been flipped side to side a couple of times in the repairs and there was a cradle that would hold it upright. My friend had been using his dinghy to slowly dredge a channel from deep water to the boat but he was only about half way there. He would run the dinghy with a 10 HP motor after dark while he went to eat and have drinks. It was amazing how the OB motor thrust could create that channel and he would position the dinghy deeper in his canal each day and flush out another 10 feet or so during the dark so no one would notice the churned up sand in the relatively clear harbor. He would have gotten busted for that in about 10 minutes in daylight. He had stockpiled roadside collision galvanized extrusions from a failed attempt by the US federal road admin to build  I-10 across St John to us interstate standards but that is another story. We set the U-shaped guard rails up as a track for the cradle/skid he had built and had about 150' to drag the sled and boat to the head of the self made canal. The guy had rented an old interisland reefer boat (Ex Caneel Ferry) to make the haul and tow but it couldn't budge the rig. Too much sand had washed into the steel tracks and the friction with the 8"x8" runners of the sled were just binding up. We set up a water crash pump to try and wash the troughs clean but still too much friction. We had only a couple hours before the High Noon Showdown with the Governors chainsaw crew who were just watching from the shade and laughing at our efforts. The government Environmental Lawyer and the DPNR Jefe were doing their best to cheer us on as it was going to be their heads on the chopping block if the boat was still there when the Gov arrived on the Noon ferry for the 4th of July parade in town. My friend was keeping his cool pretty well under all the pressure and was hacking up 3/4" galvanized pipe in short lengths that would fit down in the bottom of the steel channels and hopefully act as roller bearings when I got the idea that all we needed was lubricant. I jumped in my dinghy and zipped across the harbor to the cargo dock and ran across the street to the West Indian local Chicken-Fry stand. These places always have several 5 gallon plastic drums of very used Mel-Fry which is the fry oil of choice in most of the Caribbean. By the time they change to fresh fry oil, the old oil looks like molasses. They gladly gave me to buckets of the vicious stuff and returned to the scene of the crime at the boat. I carried both 5 gal buckets up into the shade where they were just starting to get a few rollers in place and gave one to my friend and said, 'Let's try this shit!'

     The DPNR chief saw what we were about to do which was pour it into the steel channels to lube the wooden runners and he ran up shaking his head. I swore it was merely an all natural organic chicken byproduct and he said that if it left a sheen on the water then the Coast Guard would be standing in line to cite us after his Enviro lawyer. He made me drag a bucket over to where the Queen B Enviro lawyer was wilting in the heat and we appealed to her discretion and she said just 'Pour the stuff in and get that damned boat out of sight!'

     No Coasties in sight as of yet so we 'greased the skids' literally and gave the sign to the tow boat and the big Ketch fairly left for the deep waters. Didn't take much to break it loose and start to move and it went as far as our Mel-Fry had made it before amalgamating in the cool waters. It took a couple more pours before the boat slide back into its element. No slick from the chicken grease just some white chunks floating around which were getting gobbled up by the small reef fish! No harm, No foul from the sidelines and we beat the Governors arrival by about 10 minutes. Funny thing was that once the boat was afloat, the disappointed chainsaw crew was turned over to our direction and they helped up clean up all the shoring and steel involved. We kept the skid though and it ended up out in Coral Bay and served the boating community out there for a long time. 

    In the Islands, you won't have to look far for old Reverse Osmosis fiberglass filter casings. They are usually about 6-8" in diameter and 8' long and once the are shot they pile up near the RO plant and rarely get sent back to the States for refurb. They make excellent roller for launching a big boat and are pretty slick even if they don't have a good enough surface to roll on. Don't forget the Mel-Fry!

Image result for mel-fry

Image result for west indian chicken shack

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Great story Rasp.  You've had an interesting life - got as many stories as PB, but with less blood!

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Where is the boat? If it is St Marten be VERY aware that a salvage permit is required and the process is a nightmare with much nitpicking over insurance and proof that no eco damage will occur. At least two two pro salvage organisations have given up in disgust due to the bureaucracy. 

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What about cutting her into pieces that are small enough for one of those monster cargo copters? Fly them out to a more convenient place and weld everything back together. 

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Good point from TQA. My other big salvage effort in the USVI ended up we me getting served by a Deputy from DPNR with a $10,000 per day fine if I didn't get a partially salvaged CSY 44 out of the water and up to the dump within 72 hours! Beware of the liabilities that you incur when taking on such a project.

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Allright, sorry for the late reply, internet can be scratchy here,

offcourse Zonker, im in over my head. But where´s the fun if your not from time to time. I have done comparable jobs before. And yes, there is more professional advice im using aswell, but over the years i have learned one can find surprisingly good tips even in the most grubby corners of the world, like SA! We expect a bollardpull of about  15-25  tonnes when towing. A strong point on the Victoria is the challange. Obviously some clamps and a winch wont do.

 

Thanks Rasputin, thats what i mean, apreciate it. We do consider using those big steel road plates instead of old masts. But they are not easy to come by here. And they are a bit  more expenxive in case we ruin them. But when in place and well greased, it would be a smoother ride.

 

Yes, the boat is in st Martin. On the French side. The corrupt permit sceme is ongoing on the dutch side. The autorities are cooperating quite well. il have in writing permission of a 3 month timeframe, and the free use of lubricants, machines etc before any start.

Any other tips? What are your thoughs on a strong point. Either chain together all the deckpoints, or some sceme were a chain is wrapped around the entire hull and bolted at gunnelheight. Welding on site is a problem.

 

Cheers, Peter

 

 

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Plant some drugs in it then buy it at auction after local drugs enforcement takes it to impound facility.

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- 15-25 T bollard pull will be pretty good. Does the tug have a good winch or is this just a workboat? You can always get more pull with 2 boats pulling together with a slight angle between them.

- chain is pretty harsh on hull plating. Don't do more damage than you have to. I agree with wrapping it around the hull but look into polyester webbing lifting slings / round slings. They need to be well padded around sharp edges (transom or deck edge) but can be very strong. Even big ropes. Never use nylon; too stretchy and when it snaps it can take off a limb or a head pretty fast. Lots of tugboat accidents in the old days.

- Have the rope/sling whatever about 200mm or so below deck edge. Hang with small ropes. Far enough down that it won't slip up over the deck edge; close enough that the deck provides strength in sideways direction.

- reducing friction is going to be key. Well greased logs parallel to waters edge, even if a bit bumpy, will work. Greasing with tallow or chicken fat is a good idea.

- could you unbolt the keel or is the ballast all poured in place? If any ingots, remove them. Anything you can do to remove heavy weights is good.

- airbags to get it floating sooner instead of dragging it into the beach on its side and maybe flooding it. Old truck tire inner tubes. Old plastic barrels. Huge fenders can all work.

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Seems like those heavy duty float tubes would do the trick.  Should be able to run a 220 welder, with an Aluminum squirt gun out there off a generator to get her half ass patched enough to float.  There's probably a set of house jacks somewhere on the island that would help you get her more upright and cribbed out of the sand.

 

As always, please take video.  

You got this.

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