leonacj3

Daysailer 22' to 30'

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Hello,
 
I'm looking for a daysailer in the 22' to 30' range with the following wishlist and want to make sure I haven't missed anything (the boats I'm considering are below the wishlist):
 
- Draft no more than 5 feet (open to a swing keel)
- Engine, preferably inboard (gas, diesel or electric - have to travel about 5 miles roundtrip to get to and from the ocean for open water to sail)
- Flushing marine head, because I will be sailing with my teenage daughter and don't want to have to return to the marina if she needs to use the restroom
- Boat that I could easily sail singlehanded for when my daughter is not with me; self-tacking jib ideal
- Along the lines of something that can be sailed singlehanded or with my daughter, prefer an asymmetrical spinnaker or code zero instead of a symmetrical spinnaker
- Prefer a current production boat or one that has been produced within the last 5-10 years
- Doesn't need to be trailer-able - it will be kept in the water
- Ideally the price would be under $75k-$85k but open to spending more for the right boat
- Room in cockpit for 5-6 people comfortably for the days I bring the whole family/friends onboard
- Would like something fast and fun to sail; this is why I'm considering a J/80 even though it doesn't meet some requirements above
- Ideally no teak to reduce maintenance - boat will be left out in the sun in Florida
 
Here are boats I am considering. Please let me know if I have missed anything that I should consider, and also please let me know any thoughts about these boats:
 
Catalina 275 Sport
Beneteau First 25
Beneteau First 22
Tartan Fantail
Morris M29X
Seascape 27
Saffier 23 SE
Alerion Express 28
J/80
 
Thank you!

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Your budget appears to support this package. And it's the only one that ticks all the boxes you have created. Plus you can afford the lift too, which is a good idea in FL. If you're in SW FL, the 4'6" draft is about the max I would want unless you're willing to be a regular with boat US.

 

image.png.1a538fa2195c29e4e85e0857d43cbbc5.png

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41 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

The Harbor 25 strikes me as the everyman's version of the Alerion 28.

Wow, that looks great. Wasn't even on my radar!

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22 minutes ago, lasal said:

Your budget appears to support this package. And it's the only one that ticks all the boxes you have created. Plus you can afford the lift too, which is a good idea in FL. If you're in SW FL, the 4'6" draft is about the max I would want unless you're willing to be a regular with boat US.

lasal, is that the Alerion Express 28?

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13 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Why a flushing marine head?  A composting head would be much less maintenance

Hadn't considered that - just noted that most of what I'm looking at either has a flushing head or a portable head, and I don't want to have to deal with the portable one. I've had boats before with a flushing head and it hasn't been a big deal, especially since there are multiple pumpout stations close to home port.

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Santana 22. I know it is older that most but boat for boat pretty good and tough as nails. Very hard to beat in PHRF racing too.

p1111189735-3.jpg

 

Draft is less than 4. Can be powered by a small outboard. Great boat to get started in.

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J100 is more of a day-sailor than a J80 and has an inboard. They list a shoal draft version but I am not sure how many they made. 

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On the small end, consider a Rhodes 22    I like mine.  Aside from a yearly trailer trip I daysail.   I’m alone 85% of the time.

Marine Head, hatch overhead allows a single handler to stand and keep watch if the wind is polite.   Unique door does expand to allow knee room if you need to sit.  I’m 5’11”

Stub keel & centerboard, floats in 20”and swims in 4’.   Forgiving if the board hits bottom.

Bimini and pop top can be raised under sail if the wind is moderate and the boom can be kept in the top ‘notch’.

8 foot cockpit.

Convenient to single hand.   Cross sheet the jib.   I do a lot of short tacking.

I can get it out of a slip in a crosswind up to 20 knots or more or without bumping my slip neighbor.   The advantage of small.

active class association.   

Newer boats have zero external wood, not even the tiller.   Also a rot free deck core and a fiberglass board instead of iron swing keel.   I looked hard at maintenance.   

The shop is still in business, on a custom basis.   There are several used boats on the market and factory refits available.

 

negatives:   Unique solutions, if you are set in your ways it may not meet your expectations.   The centerboard shape is forgiving if you touch bottom, but doesn’t provide great lift.   It points ok but slips a bit.   It doesn’t like winds over 20 or 25, I reef early if storms threaten.   The in mast furling is convenient since I can be sailing 8 minutes after I lock the car,  but sail shape obviously suffers.  Since you have a long channel one with a traditional rig could be a better option.   It needs an outboard, or the factory torqueedo retrofit option.    My Tohatsu sailmaster 6 can get 25 n m per gallon at half throttle, if I can get ethanol free fuel and it doesn’t vapor lock.

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, steele said:

J100 is more of a day-sailor than a J80 and has an inboard. They list a shoal draft version but I am not sure how many they made. 

My thought as well, but may a bit outside the price range.

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2 hours ago, Remodel said:
18 hours ago, steele said:

J100 is more of a day-sailor than a J80 and has an inboard. They list a shoal draft version but I am not sure how many they made. 

My thought as well, but may a bit outside the price range.

J/95 (http://www.jboats.com/j95) has a similar recipe, but with a centreboard: 3'0" draft with board up.  Wheel steering (yuk) but otherwise similar to J/100.

The two listed on Yachtworld are v spendy: US$142k and $195k

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21 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

The Harbor 25 strikes me as the everyman's version of the Alerion 28.

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2008/Schock-Harbor-25-3084323/Lake-Lanier%2C-NE-of-Atlanta/GA/United-States?refSource=browse listing#.Wz-j8tVKjIU

Here you go.  Checks every block on your list.  Might need to by a new Aysm, but for the price, you've got plenty of room.  Not as nice as the Alerion, but comes with the retractable sprit for the aysm...

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On 7/5/2018 at 4:21 PM, leonacj3 said:

Wow, that looks great. Wasn't even on my radar!

Harbor 25

I looked at one of these about 4 years ago. I thought it was a little tubby looking and the interior a bit overdone ("bead board" and stone countertops?). I have heard that you need to be very careful about the build date, since the quality took a big dip at some point. Do some searching on SA and you should find the thread.

On the plus side, big cockpit and the traveler is aft of it.

Good luck in your search.

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Winner 8 would tick all boxes, I guess. Would need shipping and tariffs probably are a dealbreaker...

Winner-8-4.jpg

or, if a J/80 is the lower end in terms of comfort and motor, a JK 28 may also be an option. 

4_c493f4e9a3.jpeg

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10 hours ago, Matagi said:

Winner 8 would tick all boxes, I guess. Would need shipping and tariffs probably are a dealbreaker...

Winner 8 fails the OP's "Room in cockpit" criterion. It looks okay for 2 people, not the 5–6 which the OP wants

winner8-1170.jpg

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21 hours ago, Matagi said:

or, if a J/80 is the lower end in terms of comfort and motor, a JK 28 may also be an option. 

 

Most everything I've found about the JK 28 is in German, and none I can find for sale in the U.S. Anyone have more information?

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I saw the Beneteau First 22 today. It's a big boat with sails that look too small (maybe because it's built to be a teaching boat they don't want it to get overpowered?). Here's is my refined list with data. Definitely appreciate the suggestions about the Harbor 25!

 

Capture.PNG

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Also sailed the J/80 today. I think that's going to be too much work to try to sail single-handed, and of course it also doesn't have a head, so that one probably will come off the list too.

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I see a lot to like about the Saffier.  Tasty lines, and high ballast ratio on a light hull.

However the self-tacking jib is one of those evil short track types.  Fine upwind in flat water, when a narrowly-sheeted blade is ideal ... but no use once the sheet is eased.  Even when daysailing or cruising, I like my sails to set properly, and that jib would offend me every time I was reaching.

The Hoyt jib boom as used on the Alerion and the Harbor 25 is a much better all-rounder. Both those boats are heavy, but at least their rigs are not crippled. 

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Does it also concern you that there seem to be very few examples of that boat in the US? Seems like it might be more difficult to resell it down the road since less people would know about them. 

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Hey Leon, looks like you're making some good progress and actually getting out on the water, the most important thing.

The Harbor 25 is pretty nice. Note that those have a gas saildrive, Yamaha 9.9, not a diesel. I'd be happy with that powerplant, the main thing being that running narrow passes and channels under power where the waves can get steep, an outboard is far more likely to cavitate than an inboard.

Just a note on draft, as combined I have sailed, fished from a variety of center consoles, and kayaked the entire SW FL coast from Boca Grande to Shark River, almost every pass and bay/sound, and also all around Marathon Key. I don't know what river and pass you'll be transiting to go sailing, but five feet is deep draft for a lot of cool spots. If you wanted to sail Pine Island Sound on a regular basis, for example, a nice cat boat might be something to think about. One with an inboard.

Charlotte Harbor, or Tampa Bay, five feet draft would be ok, until you wanted to anchor in a nice little spot that won't allow five feet. Plus, on a small boat carrying a dingy to get to shore is not easy. A shoal draft boat can often get you close enough to nice little lunch spots where you can walk, swim off the boat right up to a sandy spot a few yards away. You are in Florida after all.

 

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