mikewof

I'm not political expert, but in my inexpert opinion ...

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11 hours ago, J28 said:

Makin’ a double batch of popcorn.  This is gonna be fun!

Save me some.  I'm going to go get some beer.

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3 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Ow..you'll get flamed for that :D

I know, I’m off to show poms how to cook a BBQ properly. I’ll pop back later for the flaming. 

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1 minute ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Save me some.  I'm going to go get some beer.

Any recommendations for a chilled white wine with lunch? 

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back ti wattles contention that the POTUS is an employee.

Twould seem that IF they can rid themselves of this most unsatisfactory employee..then they have to accept his running mate.someone hand picked by the tosser and really only nominally elected.it's fucking tragic

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2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

back ti wattles contention that the POTUS is an employee.

Twould seem that IF they can rid themselves of this most unsatisfactory employee..then they have to accept his running mate.someone hand picked by the tosser and really only nominally elected.it's fucking tragic

Which is exactly how we inherited Gordon Brown and May!!!

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3 minutes ago, mad said:

Which is exactly how we inherited Gordon Brown and May!!!

well if your system is the same as ours..not quite.

May and Brown were simply senior members of the ruling party..they could have chosen someone else.

Like Abbot being repaced by Turnbull..T was not the deputy PM.

Gillard was deputy..but when Rudd replaced her..he wasn't.

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

you think he knows warren co sponsord it? Do you think he even knows what it;s about?

The shame of politics here is that you seem to think it matters.

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20 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

well if your system is the same as ours..not quite.

May and Brown were simply senior members of the ruling party..they could have chosen someone else.

Like Abbot being repaced by Turnbull..T was not the deputy PM.

Gillard was deputy..but when Rudd replaced her..he wasn't.

Either way, you had no choice in the matter.

 

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12 hours ago, mikewof said:

... so far, President Trump isn't nearly as destructive or damaging as either Reagan or G.W.. He hasn't been able to start wars as well as G.W., and he hasn't yet created the kind of fertile soil for future economic collapse as Reagan. And G.W. deserves some twelfth hour praise for the Pacific Ocean Stewardship, so that gives him a foot above Reagan.

Two years in, I think us lefties should just focus on supporting Trump's half-decent measures, try to get whatever productivity that we can out of the next couple years, possibly six. It's getting kind of silly, we're blaming everything on President Trump, which isn't productive. It will backlash in two years if we don't lay off. It's better to let him do what he has to, try to make us happy and alienate his base, like I believe he will alienate them, left to his own legacy-making.

You hit the nail on the head, Trump's greatest asset is liberal hate and he plays it beautifully. When liberal hate compels them to oppose everything Trump all he has to do is propose the popular  and presto, libs reflexively call for the unpopular. Trump proposes tough immigration enforcement (popular)  libs call for eliminating ICE  (unpopular). Trump wins.

The problem with having a opposition hamstrung by their own hate is does not necessarily result in good policy.

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28 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

back ti wattles contention that the POTUS is an employee.

Twould seem that IF they can rid themselves of this most unsatisfactory employee..then they have to accept his running mate.someone hand picked by the tosser and really only nominally elected.it's fucking tragic

Well, there are those who think that we never had a President McCain was because of the party picked successor.

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3 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Either way, you had no choice in the matter.

 

What? Um thats why we vote for a rep..I was quite happy with Rudd and Abbotts removal thanks..so two out of three is pretty good seeing as Rudd was "my partys" leader..and my party removed him.

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9 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

What? Um thats why we vote for a rep..I was quite happy with Rudd and Abbotts removal thanks..so two out of three is pretty good seeing as Rudd was "my partys" leader..and my party removed him.

I was really pissed off when Gillard removed Rudd. I was looking forward to voting against the bastard myself. But it was all good in the end - I got another chance to do that. Pity Abbott turned out to be completely out of his depth as PM but - shrug - getting rid of Rudd was worth it.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:
1 hour ago, mad said:

I’m guessing the Kennedy assassination was the fastest process. 

Ow..you'll get flamed for that :D

Not sure why. My answer was going to be "depends whether there's turbulence" along with a pic of LBJ being sworn in.

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1 hour ago, mad said:

The majority voting in favour of the bill linked don’t appear to be enough to start an impeachment process according to Cmilliken above. 

When was the last time Congress voted with a 70% majority agreement? 

Friday would be my guess, if they were working. And they'll do it again frequently tomorrow, if they're working.

If you ever bore yourself with CSPAN, you'll see lots of things being done by unanimous consent. If they pan back a bit, you'll see that this means no cameraman spoke up in opposition.

But your question gets to the issue: it was asked how quickly we could replace a President if "we decided" to do so. Very, very quickly if there's unanimous consent, which does happen all the time. The chances of it happening in the case of an impeachment in real life are remote, but it could.

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1 minute ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Not sure why. My answer was going to be "depends whether there's turbulence" along with a pic of LBJ being sworn in.

I've been told that Dead Kennedys are no joking matter 

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But back on topic. And Waffles rather absurd OP.

Here's a few reasons why Trump is a threat and should not be appeased.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jul/08/donald-trump-uk-visit-contempt-for-european-allies

Whose side is Trump’s America on? The answer is becoming more and more obvious

As the US president arrives in Britain on a ‘working visit’, his contempt for European allies poses an increasing threat

 

Nato summits are generally unremarkable affairs, but this week’s two-day gathering in Brussels will be an exception. European members of the transatlantic alliance are pondering their biggest conundrum since its creation almost 70 years ago: is the US a friend – or a foe?

Only 18 months ago, the question would have been dismissed as absurd. But the globally destructive impact of Donald Trump’s chaotic presidency has shattered conventional wisdom and left strategic and geopolitical certainties in ruins.

The problem is not only that Trump will again insist on the other 28 Nato members increasing their defence spending, on the specious grounds the US is being “ripped off”. It’s not merely that he has queried the founding treaty’s article 5 commitment to collective defence, or that he may close US military bases in Germany.

The more fundamental problem is that the US president is questioning the purpose of Nato, despite it having advanced US security and economic interests since 1949, undercut efforts to forge greater European unity that could have challenged US dominance, kept the Soviet Union/Russia at bay, and (mostly) maintained peace in Europe.

Bottom line: Trump simply doesn’t buy into, or understand, basic concepts such as collective security, burden-sharing, forward defence and the balance of power. He just doesn’t get it.

 

This myopic, isolationist view, consistent with his “America First” outlook, reflects Trump’s hostility to multilateralism in general. He scorns the UN, and has cut its US funding and boycotted its human rights council in Geneva. He repudiates World Trade Organisation rules, adopting unilateral, protectionist tariffs that spark trade wars and threaten European jobs.

Trump tore up the Paris global climate change treaty, pulled out of the UN-endorsed 2015 Iran nuclear deal so beloved of Europe, and recently urged France to follow Britain in abandoning the EU – an organisation he treats with contempt. He singlehandedly wrecked last month’s G7 summit of leading democracies in Canada, petulantly rejecting its conclusions and insulting his hosts.

More gallingly, Trump treats old friends worse than ostensible enemies, personalising political interactions and resorting to bullying, rudeness and open misogyny. Angela Merkel has been singled out for special abuse. At the G7 meeting, he tossed two Starburst sweets at the Germans chancellor and said: “Here, Angela, don’t say I never give you anything.”

(my highlighting, that's shocking)

 

Ever since he grabbed Theresa May’s hand at their first White House meeting last year, Trump has treated the British prime minister with patronising disrespect. His crass interventions in British life, for example via tweets promoting the far-right group Britain First, and attacking London’s Muslim mayor, Sadiq Khan, were extraordinarily insulting. The Queen’s famous sang-froid may be tested to destruction when his visit to Britain begins on Thursday.

If Trump’s crude, nationalistic policies and uncouth persona were the only problems, the European allies might just cope. But in recent months, as he has jettisoned experienced advisers and his belief in his own infallibility has grown, Trump has moved from difficult partner to potential enemy.

The question grows ever more pressing: whose side is Trump’s America really on?

Trump’s sycophantic courting last year of the Saudi royals and China’s authoritarian president, Xi Jinping, were early indications of his preference for dictators over democrats. His recent summit with Kim Jong-un did nothing to curb North Korea’s nuclear arms buildup. But it did reveal Trump’s almost indecent love of raw power and ostentation.

This ugly trait will be on show again when he meets Vladimir Putin, Russia’s he-man president, in Helsinki on 16 July. Jon Huntsman, the US ambassador to Moscow, insists that Trump will focus on Russia’s “malign activity”, be it in Ukraine, in cyberspace, or in conducting chemical weapons attacks in Syria and Salisbury.

Trump has also promised to quiz Putin over covert Russian meddling that benefited his 2016 election campaign, activity confirmed last week by a US senate report. But will he really do so in the private, closed-doors summit he has demanded?

A more likely prospect is more crapulous fawning over an autocratic leader who exercises a mysterious hold over Trump and, most Nato members believe, threatens European security.

As with Kim in Singapore, Trump’s big day out with Putin in Helsinki will be noisily declared, by him, to be an outstanding success contributing to global harmony. If, as is suggested, the two men agree to extend the New Start nuclear arms treaty, that will be a rare plus.

But just as likely are unilateral, Nato-busting Trump moves to ease sanctions on Russia over Ukraine, a deal to keep Bashar al-Assad in power in Syria, the “normalisation” of Putin’s regime, and other concessions undermining the post-Salisbury western consensus.

In an augury of worse to come, Trump will also seek Putin’s support over Iran. US efforts to force regime change in Tehran are gathering pace, principally by halting Iranian oil sales and trying to starve out the mullahs. Even as European diplomats struggle to sustain open lines to Tehran, the US navy is gearing up for confrontation if Iran’s revolutionary guards retaliate, as threatened, by closing the Strait of Hormuz and blocking all Gulf oil exports.

Here, in a nutshell, is why Trump’s US increasingly poses a threat to Britain and Europe. In a reckless bid to impose his will on a sovereign people,he is risking a global energy crisis, a new war in the Middle East and the safety and prosperity of all America’s allies. With friends like him, who needs enemies?

 

 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Any recommendations for a chilled white wine with lunch? 

Dr. Loosen Riesling   

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Trump has made hate and anger a normalcy............it's ok to hate people. It's ok to belittle people.  It's ok to viciously attack people with words and actions and demean people in order for them to acquiesce.... these actions are far more costly and bad for our nation than ANY positive thing he has done or will do....THIS legacy will continue even after the dumb fuck is 6 ft. under ......he has brought out the WORST in Americans..........and it is sad

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5 minutes ago, dacapo said:

Trump has made hate and anger a normalcy............it's ok to hate people. It's ok to belittle people.  It's ok to viciously attack people with words and actions and demean people in order for them to acquiesce.... these actions are far more costly and bad for our nation than ANY positive thing he has done or will do....THIS legacy will continue even after the dumb fuck is 6 ft. under ......he has brought out the WORST in Americans..........and it is sad

and apparently it's OK to throw things at women.

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

A few of his trade barriers make some sense to protect nascent industries. He picked a qualified and effective DOE head, who does support alternative energy.

His qualified head of the DOE didn't even know about 90% of what the agency does, claimed during his own presidential bid that he would do away with it, and was a buffoon as Governor of Texas. That fact Texans kept him in power for so very long is what makes me cringe at the thought that these same morons will be voting for Trump again.

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I did a quick search on the OP.  He doesn’t know much about anything but sure has an opinion about everything.

The first post is a breathtakingly ignorant assesment of Trumps first months in office. Taxes, tariffs (tax hike on middle class and job killer) deficits the disastrous changes at departments of the interior, EPA,  DOE, HUD, State  and on and on will take a decade to fix. We are set to loose the race to 5G estimated to be a $12T technology opportunity.  Right now the yield curve is the flattest it’s been since 2007. The OP doesn’t know what that portents but he sure has an option on it.

its disturbing.

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Any recommendations for a chilled white wine with lunch? 

Caymus Conundrum California white 2012, if you can find it.

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23 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Caymus Conundrum California white 2012, if you can find it.

Not generally a fan of blends, but this stuff is good. Any year........

-DSK

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26 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not generally a fan of blends, but this stuff is good. Any year........

-DSK

Their reds are in a league of their own.

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Any recommendations for a chilled white wine with lunch? 

I really am enjoying an Argentinian Pinot Grigio lately.  I'll see if I can remember the make later.  Its great for Lunch because its really light.  

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11 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

 

 

 

How come right wingers have such a problem with understanding

Analogy

sarcasm

irony

Lack of imagination i suppose.

I think I've asked this before.

Same reason that most musicians, artists and GOOD comedians tend left.

Sorry but when you have to repeatedly say “that’s a joke” or “that was irony” maybe it’s you.

When you get called for your blind anger at people who don’t agree with you 100% you pretend it was meant to be sarcasm. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

It's really pretty simple and is well illustrated on this very forum.

They just ain't very smart.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/the-hot-button/study-links-low-intelligence-with-right-wing-beliefs/article543361/

America is currently being controlled by the bottom tier of society. A dictatorship of the proletariat.

If the republicans are less intelligent then why do the Dems complain about how ballots are too difficult for their voters to understand? You never hear about Republicans fucking up a “butterfly” ballot and voting dem by mistake? How can that be? 

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8 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

yeah..that's usually pretty eva dent, but is there a link between lack of imagination and intelligence?

Imagination must go to the left. Because they are making up shit all the time. 

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"Trump's greatest asset is liberal hate and he plays it beautifully."

Not true, Trump's greatest asset is a Republican party that has been fully co-opted by the Dixiecrats. No longer the party of Lincoln, Roosevelt and Eisenhower, it's the party of Harding, Thurmond and Wallace. The mature fruit of Nixon's Southern Strategy tree.

1948 Dixiecrat Platform (pure segregation edited out)

 

Platform of the States Rights Democratic Party
August 14, 1948
 

 

Unanimously Adopted at Oklahoma City, August 14, 1948

- 1 -

We believe that the Constitution of the United States is the greatest charter of human liberty ever conceived by the mind of man.

- 2 -

We oppose all efforts to invade or destroy the rights guaranteed by it to every citizen of this republic.

- 3 -

We stand for social and economic justice, which, we believe can be guaranteed to all citizens only by a strict adherence to our Constitution and the avoidance of any invasion or destruction of the constitutional rights of the states and individuals. We oppose the totalitarian, centralized bureaucratic government and the police nation called for by the platforms adopted by the Democratic and Republican Conventions.

- 4 -

We stand for ...; the constitutional right to choose one's associates; to accept private employment without governmental interference, and to earn one's living in any lawful way. We oppose the ... the control of private employment by Federal bureaucrats .... We favor home-rule, local self-government and a minimum interference with individual rights.

- 5 -

We oppose and condemn the action of the Democratic Convention in sponsoring a civil rights program calling for ... social equality by Federal fiat, regulations of private employment practices, voting, and local law enforcement.

- 6 -

We affirm that the effective enforcement of such a program would be utterly destructive of the social, economic and political life of the Southern people, and of other localities in which there may be differences in race, creed or national origin in appreciable numbers.

- 7 -

We stand for the check and balances provided by the three departments of our government. We oppose the usurpation of legislative functions by the executive and judicial departments. We unreservedly condemn the effort to establish in the United States a police nation that would destroy the last vestige of liberty enjoyed by a citizen.

- 8 -

We demand that there be returned to the people to whom of right they belong, those powers needed for the preservation of human rights and the discharge of our responsibility as democrats for human welfare. We oppose a denial of those by political parties, a barter or sale of those rights by a political convention, as well as any invasion or violation of those rights by the Federal Government. We call upon all Democrats and upon all other loyal Americans who are opposed to totalitarianism at home and abroad to unite with us in ignominiously defeating Harry S. Truman, Thomas E. Dewey and every other candidate for public office who would establish a Police Nation in the United States of America.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=25851

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Just now, chinabald said:

If the republicans are less intelligent then why do the Dems complain about how ballots are too difficult for their voters to understand? You never hear about Republicans fucking up a “butterfly” ballot and voting dem by mistake? How can that be? 

You should know better than to ask those types of uncomfortable questions of this crowd.

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2 hours ago, Remodel said:

His qualified head of the DOE didn't even know about 90% of what the agency does, claimed during his own presidential bid that he would do away with it, and was a buffoon as Governor of Texas. That fact Texans kept him in power for so very long is what makes me cringe at the thought that these same morons will be voting for Trump again.

He's turned out to be a good for renewable energy as far as I could tell from my personal experience there. And remember, Texas is the top renewable wind energy state in the USA, even ahead of California. That obviously wasn't all Rick Perry, but he did promote or and create some favorable policy there.

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46 minutes ago, chinabald said:

If the republicans are less intelligent then why do the Dems complain about how ballots are too difficult for their voters to understand? You never hear about Republicans fucking up a “butterfly” ballot and voting dem by mistake? How can that be? 

Because the righties were smarter at protecting the ballot than the lefties. Remember Diebold?

The lefties trusted the process and they got screwed. Now they no longer trust the process.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not generally a fan of blends, but this stuff is good. Any year........

-DSK

I tried wine once. It kind of reminded me of beer, but with all the deliciousness removed.

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2 hours ago, Fakenews said:

I did a quick search on the OP.  He doesn’t know much about anything but sure has an opinion about everything.

The first post is a breathtakingly ignorant assesment of Trumps first months in office. Taxes, tariffs (tax hike on middle class and job killer) deficits the disastrous changes at departments of the interior, EPA,  DOE, HUD, State  and on and on will take a decade to fix. We are set to loose the race to 5G estimated to be a $12T technology opportunity.  Right now the yield curve is the flattest it’s been since 2007. The OP doesn’t know what that portents but he sure has an option on it.

its disturbing.

What's really disturbing is how shockingly bad University of Florida's recruiting has become. The only half decent recruit gets himself arrested. It's remarkable what a shitshow that program has become.

Survey says ... bottom of the SEC!

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

I've been told that Dead Kennedys are no joking matter 

It's adorable when Brits and Aussies connect with U.S. punk ... almost like they were part of it.

You'll always have Billy Bragg, but Jello? Unlikely ... like beaming radio waves to a caveman.

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13 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I tried wine once. It kind of reminded me of beer, but with all the deliciousness removed.

I used to respect you.  But this post proves you are nothing more than a trailer trash caveman.  I loves me some good beer, but wine is sublime.  

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1 hour ago, chinabald said:

If the republicans are less intelligent then why do the Dems complain about how ballots are too difficult for their voters to understand? You never hear about Republicans fucking up a “butterfly” ballot and voting dem by mistake? How can that be? 

Because they can color between the lines without getting bored.  

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3 hours ago, Dog said:

You hit the nail on the head, Trump's greatest asset is liberal hate and he plays it beautifully. When liberal hate compels them to oppose everything Trump all he has to do is propose the popular  and presto, libs reflexively call for the unpopular. Trump proposes tough immigration enforcement (popular)  libs call for eliminating ICE  (unpopular). Trump wins.

The problem with having a opposition hamstrung by their own hate is does not necessarily result in good policy.

As a lefty, I'm concerned that we're not using him to any kind of advantage. He has already shown himself to be receptive to working with us. We're so caught up in this narrative of him being Satan incarnate that we don't see what's actually happening.

We read hyperbole like the kind that Meli cuts and pastes here, and we don't remind ourselves where we actually are.

I liked Obama, but his drone war was a human rights disaster. We have a chance to address this problem with Trump's new drone policy. But we're so busy repeating that evil incarnate thing that it doesn't even have room in the newspapers. I have at least ten examples like this.

We have an opportunity, because he has contained the extremists in a manageable space. We can work on urban poverty and good economic policy, if we could just lift our eyes up for a few moments.

I take care of my 94 year old WWII-wounded dad. His speech patterns are straight Trump, not because of his politics, but because of his generation. Trump is confusing because his relatively youngish looks betray his age. We don't understand him, he doesn't understand us, and at least part of that is just shitty generational communications.

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

As a lefty, I'm concerned that we're not using him to any kind of advantage. He has already shown himself to be receptive to working with us. We're so caught up in this narrative of him being Satan incarnate that we don't see what's actually happening.

We read hyperbole like the kind that Meli cuts and pastes here, and we don't remind ourselves where we actually are.

I liked Obama, but his drone war was a human rights disaster. We have a chance to address this problem with Trump's new drone policy. But we're so busy repeating that evil incarnate thing that it doesn't even have room in the newspapers. I have at least ten examples like this.

We have an opportunity, because he has contained the extremists in a manageable space. We can work on urban poverty and good economic policy, if we could just lift ou eyes up for a few moments.

Mikey, I feelz ya.  But if you keep saying this stuff, you will be labeled a bright Red Trumpy dick licker by the elk here.  You can't say ANYTHING even slightly neutral much less positive about Il Cheetolini without being called a trumpo supporter.  So just be careful......

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12 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I used to respect you.  But this post proves you are nothing more than a trailer trash caveman.  I loves me some good beer, but wine is sublime a drink for lonely women and Europeans.

Fixed that for ya.

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6 hours ago, random said:

Ooo yeah.  The place is fucked now, it will never be the same again.

Trump is not the problem, he is just the symptom of why it is fucked.  A country that would elect that lying criminal pussy grabber. is fucked for good.  You can get rid of him but the culture that put him there will remain.

I heard an interview today on the AUS ABC where a commentator said that the US will become torn apart by the strain between wanting to continue dominating the world, and the total inability to do that anymore.

Spot on

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45 minutes ago, mikewof said:

As a lefty, I'm concerned that we're not using him to any kind of advantage. He has already shown himself to be receptive to working with us. We're so caught up in this narrative of him being Satan incarnate that we don't see what's actually happening.

We read hyperbole like the kind that Meli cuts and pastes here, and we don't remind ourselves where we actually are.

I liked Obama, but his drone war was a human rights disaster. We have a chance to address this problem with Trump's new drone policy. But we're so busy repeating that evil incarnate thing that it doesn't even have room in the newspapers. I have at least ten examples like this.

We have an opportunity, because he has contained the extremists in a manageable space. We can work on urban poverty and good economic policy, if we could just lift our eyes up for a few moments.

I take care of my 94 year old WWII-wounded dad. His speech patterns are straight Trump, not because of his politics, but because of his generation. Trump is confusing because his relatively youngish looks betray his age. We don't understand him, he doesn't understand us, and at least part of that is just shitty generational communications.

Some current problems have a time horizon, especially climate change, and must be resisted even though Trump is petty and requires complete devotion in his vassals.    When people started to reach across the isle on areas where Trump’s claimed goals aligned with their own Trump threw his wall up as a roadblock.   He also reverses himself so abruptly, based on Fox editorials, any agreement counts as much as a contract with a poor man.   Trump effectively walked away from his own infrastructure goals in favor of the billionaire relief act and increased military spending.   I see little opportunity to work with him and distrust anything he says.

He is a charismatic campaigner, his base continues to love him.   The midterms will not change the balance of power, but may prevent Trumps faithful form consolidating unlimited power.   Owning the Congress, courts and White House is potentially scary, as even the constitution has to be interpited by the courts.   

ARTICLE 124.  In order to ensure to citizens freedom of conscience, the church in the U.S.S.R. is separated from the state, and the school from the church. Freedom of religious worship and freedom of anti-religious propaganda is recognized for all citizens. 

ARTICLE 125. In conformity with the interests of the working people, and in order to strengthen the socialist system, the citizens of the U.S.S.R. are guaranteed by law : 

a) freedom of speech; 

b) freedom of the press; 

c) freedom of assembly, including the holding of mass meetings; 

d) freedom of street processions and demonstrations; These civil rights are ensured by placing at the disposal of the working people and their organizations printing presses, stocks of paper, public buildings, the streets, communications facilities and other material requisites for the exercise of these rights. 

The following quotes are translated from the soviet constitution of 1936.    Rights mean nothing if not protected by the courts.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

He has already shown himself to be receptive to working with us.

He has? Where? Trump fucks over anyone and everyone. What would liberals get out of cooperating with Trump other than rolled?

Trumps play is to focus narrowly on his base. Everything is for his base. That's why he engages in culture wars like the NFL. That's why he has his shitty immigration policy - assholes like Dog in the base love it and can lie and pretend the nation loves it (it doesn't). Everything is for his narrow base and to keep them motivated, angry, and tied to him.

Trumps not a politician, he's a hyper-politician. Every other President at some point cared about people other than their base and tried to be the President of everyone. Trump abandoned that. California has a natural disaster? Trump doesn't give a fuck. Some red county in the south has a disaster? Trump's all over it with support and condolences.

Don't think of him within the bounds of normal - he's not. He's worse in every way.

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4 hours ago, Dog said:

The problem with having a opposition hamstrung by their own hate is does not necessarily result in good policy.

well duh, the Republican hate of 2008-2016 produced the morally bankrupt values free Republican party of 2018. all you can point to is a  a supreme court justice; every other "accomplishment" is a betrayal of what you claimed to believe and the thing that gives you the most pleasure is pissing off the lefties. The Republicans act like you Dog - trolling the lefties day in, day out, there's no plot, no plan, no values, just trollin' trollin' trollin'.

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17 hours ago, mikewof said:

... so far, President Trump isn't nearly as destructive or damaging as either Reagan or G.W.. He hasn't been able to start wars as well as G.W., and he hasn't yet created the kind of fertile soil for future economic collapse as Reagan. And G.W. deserves some twelfth hour praise for the Pacific Ocean Stewardship, so that gives him a foot above Reagan.

Two years in, I think us lefties should just focus on supporting Trump's half-decent measures, try to get whatever productivity that we can out of the next couple years, possibly six. It's getting kind of silly, we're blaming everything on President Trump, which isn't productive. It will backlash in two years if we don't lay off. It's better to let him do what he has to, try to make us happy and alienate his base, like I believe he will alienate them, left to his own legacy-making.

Trump wants to destroy Liberal Democracy.  Putin wants to destroy Liberal Democracy. If they do, will there be enough creativity left to be what we have been?  If you look at Russia’s Democracy, the answer is no.  

Trump has already won-  he has started punishing blue states.  Some states may hang on, but the rest of the country is arrayed against them.  There will be no protection of the minority.  A few character or even actual assassinations of Well known Liberals, which have already started on social media (and here, as far as threats) and it’ll be over, the dam will break, and the acceptance of Trump’s America will be complete.  

 

 

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The Supreme Court is going to rule on a case whether the president can pardon state crimes next term, so I’m sure our right wing brethren are licking their lips.  Any bets how the court will vote?

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If you believe in state's rights, then the court should say neit to federal pardons of state crimes.  If you believe in strong central government, you should cheer if they say "mui bueno! do what you want el Presidente!"

Personally, I like States' rights.  I hope they don't encourage more executive abuse by dangling that option.

 

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8 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Russia, Cuba, France..South Africa.egypt.the revolution of the prols is a bit of a myth.

A myth? These were revolutions started by a dissatisfied "middle class"?

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4 minutes ago, mikewof said:

A myth? These were revolutions started by a dissatisfied "middle class"?

lead by the MC

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

What's really disturbing is how shockingly bad University of Florida's recruiting has become. The only half decent recruit gets himself arrested. It's remarkable what a shitshow that program has become.

Survey says ... bottom of the SEC!

I’m no Gator fan (though ny nutty Gator buddy is working hard on me) but this is an example of the absolute fact free, knowledge free gasbaggery you vomit everyday. Setting aside the fact that your post is wildly of topic, here’s a real CFB exper analys t says about the gators in 2018.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/florida-football/phil-steele-names-florida-improved-team-nation-heading-2018/

now you don’t know who he is nor understand his analysis but boy oh boy I’m sure you have an opinion.

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

He has? Where? Trump fucks over anyone and everyone. What would liberals get out of cooperating with Trump other than rolled?

Trumps play is to focus narrowly on his base. Everything is for his base. That's why he engages in culture wars like the NFL. That's why he has his shitty immigration policy - assholes like Dog in the base love it and can lie and pretend the nation loves it (it doesn't). Everything is for his narrow base and to keep them motivated, angry, and tied to him.

Trumps not a politician, he's a hyper-politician. Every other President at some point cared about people other than their base and tried to be the President of everyone. Trump abandoned that. California has a natural disaster? Trump doesn't give a fuck. Some red county in the south has a disaster? Trump's all over it with support and condolences.

Don't think of him within the bounds of normal - he's not. He's worse in every way.

I've already given some examples of some functional lefty policy of his, under-the-radar stuff, but critical. But aside from that, I would much prefer someone like Trump whom we don't trust, and keep a sharp eye, than a smooth charismatic like Reagan, or (to a lesser degree) G.W..

To me, George Orwell produced the best yet blueprint of what to avoid, and the inherent illusion of a bimodal governance. He lived that reality first fighting the Fascists in Spain, and then nearly being imprisoned by the Communists there. Therefore, I believe it's important to have a memory, to retain the memories. Some posters here (typically not American) seem to live in a world where history is malleable. We do need to remember that G.W. elegantly bulldozed us right into two major wars that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of women, children and innocents. We need to remember that he nearly brought in global economic collapse with his promotion of short-term profit-taking. We need to remember that Reagan essentially invented the legacy of spend-and-blame, and that he made Warren Harding look like a lightweight with the most overt act of treason in our history.

Is President Trump a yutz? Yeah, he's a yutz. But for all the hyperbole sprouted by people who don't live here, don't have a stake in our own internal stability, President Trump is a minor-league criminal compared to G.W. and Reagan. And again, he has created some specific, well-needed initiatives. On the other hand, as long as we're remembering that Eastasia has always been at war with Oceania, remember that Obama -- with all of his allure and charisma -- seemed to have little compunction with firing Hellfires on wedding parties of brown people, even with him literally behind the digital sights, a likely violation of the Geneva Convention.

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22 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

I’m no Gator fan (though ny nutty Gator buddy is working hard on me) but this is an example of the absolute fact free, knowledge free gasbaggery you vomit everyday. Setting aside the fact that your post is wildly of topic, here’s a real CFB exper analys t says about the gators in 2018.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/florida-football/phil-steele-names-florida-improved-team-nation-heading-2018/

now you don’t know who he is nor understand his analysis but boy oh boy I’m sure you have an opinion.

It's good that you're not a Gators fan, because wow, they really suck. It's a shame what has happened to them. Hopefully they can work the fundamentals and gain some self-respect again.

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10 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

lead by the MC

Ah, that's a completely different thing, isn't it? Educated people tend to be mouthpieces for these revolutions, and educated people tend to either rise up from poverty, or identify with poverty. But that's not at all the same thing as your suggestion that these revolutions were always the product of a dissatisfied middle class. Some of these countries didn't even have a middle class of sufficient numbers to rebel. And if you think that the end of Apartheid wasn't the result of a few million oppressed Africans kept just on our edge of starvation by welfare, then you're high.

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3 hours ago, learningJ24 said:

Butterfly ballot of the 200 presidential election

Holy shit. I've never seen this photo. I was going to suggest a little parallax error in that photo, but that's what a voter would have seen. Some photos speak a thousand words, that one speaks two words, "stolen election."

By the way, off the subject of politics, I saw the newspaper article last month with you and your wife, I'm glad that part of these mess is finally over for your family. Best wishes in her continued recovery and your philanthropy.

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12 minutes ago, mikewof said:

We need to remember that he nearly brought in global economic collapse with his promotion of short-term profit-taking.

you should probably remember that it was the legacy of 25+ years of bipartisan deregulation and cronyism aided and abetted by 40 years of short term management group think. 

the section on Maryland Cup at the end here is a good example of the trends:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/disposable-america/563204/

 

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13 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

you should probably remember that it was the legacy of 25+ years of bipartisan deregulation and cronyism aided and abetted by 40 years of short term management group think. 

the section on Maryland Cup at the end here is a good example of the trends:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/disposable-america/563204/

 

It's true. He saw the end game on his watch, but yes, the scourge of short-term profits are apolitical.

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4 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

well if your system is the same as ours..not quite.

May and Brown were simply senior members of the ruling party..they could have chosen someone else.

Like Abbot being repaced by Turnbull..T was not the deputy PM.

Gillard was deputy..but when Rudd replaced her..he wasn't.

Brown was gifted his position by Blair and the party, May decided to step into the position and all it entailed.

Then decided to fuck around by having an election to try and increase her majority, that failed along with wasting 3 months of negotiations with the EU. 

Saying that, we didn’t, and still don’t have a plan to negotiate, so it’s all a shower of shit anyway. 

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8 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Either way, you had no choice in the matter.

 

Do you not see that as an issue? They are voted for by the people to represent the people and yet they can run amok as and when they feel like it. 

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8 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

and apparently it's OK to throw things at women.

Is that before or after he grabs them by the pussy?!!

i feel sick typing that. 

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

Because the righties were smarter at protecting the ballot than the lefties. Remember Diebold?

The lefties trusted the process and they got screwed. Now they no longer trust the process.

Exactly, it’s been a wake up call for many parts of the world. 

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

It's adorable when Brits and Aussies connect with U.S. punk ... almost like they were part of it.

You'll always have Billy Bragg, but Jello? Unlikely ... like beaming radio waves to a caveman.

I’m not sure which edition of UK history you’re referring to, but Billy Bragg was an inconsequential bore from day one, with fuck all relevance or following. 

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47 minutes ago, mad said:

Do you not see that as an issue? They are voted for by the people to represent the people and yet they can run amok as and when they feel like it. 

WHy, yes, I do see that as an issue.  That's why I raised it and it is one of the great weaknesses of the Parliamentary system.  With congress abdicating its responsibility to control the POTUS we have a different problem.

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7 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

WHy, yes, I do see that as an issue.  That's why I raised it and it is one of the great weaknesses of the Parliamentary system.  With congress abdicating its responsibility to control the POTUS we have a different problem.

It was more the US issue I was referring to, but yes, there seems to be an issue with both systems. 

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9 minutes ago, mad said:

It was more the US issue I was referring to, but yes, there seems to be an issue with both systems. 

No system can ever be perfect.  But as individual thought gets buried in party conflicts they all get worse.

 

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13 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

No system can ever be perfect.  But as individual thought gets buried in party conflicts they all get worse.

 

I’m not interested in party conflicts, they can have all the internal feuds they want.

Its when both parties, and many supporters are so tied up in it that they no longer focus on the issues at hand. 

This is the same for both the US, the UK and increasingly other countries in the EU. The biggest common cause behind this appears to be Russian influence and down right greed from all sides. 

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10 hours ago, Saorsa said:

The shame of politics here is that you seem to think it matters.

SaorsaTrump.thumb.jpg.eae576340bf5491f36e40d81f030e55a.jpg

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6 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I used to respect you.  But this post proves you are nothing more than a trailer trash caveman.  I loves me some good beer, but wine is sublime.  

You know, I joke, but I once had an Aussie Shiraz, drier than a Suez whore's handbag. Holy crap, was that good. I remember it made my knees actually weak when I stood up. The danger of that stuff is that you have no idea how shitfaced you can get while you're enjoying the taste. I guess I'm just a lonely female or a European.

My wife used to have an art gallery, we learned very quickly why galleries serve lots of white wine and champagne in plastic flutes ... lube up the buyers and then when they inevitably spill their glass, the cleanup is no big deal compared to smashed crystal filled with red.

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6 minutes ago, random said:

 

SaorsaTrump.thumb.jpg.eae576340bf5491f36e40d81f030e55a.jpg

Count me a Trump Reconsiderer, I think there is tremendous opportunity in constructing policy with this administration.

Twenty years ago, I put domestic rare earth development in the top ten most pressing U.S. economic problems. G.W. ignored the problem, then by Obama I moved it up to top 5. Obama mostly ignored the problem too. It got even more pressing with that advent of solar PV and electric vehicles. Now President Trump is addressing the problem in a somewhat functional way. That's important for me, regardless that he is adored by Supremacist scumbags.

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1 minute ago, mikewof said:

You know, I joke, but I once had an Aussie Shiraz, drier than a Suez whore's handbag. Holy crap, was that good. I remember it made my knees actually weak when I stood up.

Mike, so how many glasses did you drink?

If it was just one, that sounds a tall story.  Shiraz is sometimes 15%, standard wines are 12 -13%.  Sounds like a bullshit story to me.

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6 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Count me a Trump Reconsiderer, I think there is tremendous opportunity in constructing policy with this administration.

Twenty years ago, I put domestic rare earth development in the top ten most pressing U.S. economic problems. G.W. ignored the problem, then by Obama I moved it up to top 5. Obama mostly ignored the problem too. It got even more pressing with that advent of solar PV and electric vehicles. Now President Trump is addressing the problem in a somewhat functional way. That's important for me, regardless that he is adored by Supremacist scumbags.

Mikewof.jpg.d58fad6b1b1fd32372e8cac1154cbfb5.jpg

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Though I’m newish here I picked up on Mikey quickly. He has a story about just about everything it’s all a boatload of crap.

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1 hour ago, mad said:

I’m not sure which edition of UK history you’re referring to, but Billy Bragg was an inconsequential bore from day one, with fuck all relevance or following. 

I agree, lyrically he's about as interesting as the cheese in a dairyman's slippers, but if memory serves, he was once held up as an evocation of the era of SoCal punk in Britain by Meli. She was friends with him, or maybe Nick Cave, I can't remember ... wait, maybe it was Billy Mackenzie. Actually, Mackenzie was pretty dang good, especially his stuff with Paul Haig.

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1 minute ago, Fakenews said:

Though I’m newish here I picked up on Mikey quickly. He has a story about just about everything it’s all a boatload of crap.

Yeah, like the time a University of Florida fan broke into my truck to sleep in the driver's seat, after the the Tide beat the Gators. He had to sleep off his weekly misery.

Kentucky fans, Arkansas fans, Mississippi fans, Auburn, all respectful. But after the UF games, it was trash and spilled beer on my lawn. I wonder if maybe UF fans own stock in the fire ant bait companies?

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See what I mean?  Bullshit stories left and right.  I bet he has some bullshit sailing stories that involve high winds and seas.  Too bored to check just now.

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11 minutes ago, random said:

Mike, so how many glasses did you drink?

If it was just one, that sounds a tall story.  Shiraz is sometimes 15%, standard wines are 12 -13%.  Sounds like a bullshit story to me.

A couple bottles. Good stuff. Sorry if you can't believe that your countrymen make some good Shiraz, but it was really very excellent. I don't know much about wine, but I can't remember ever having a better wine.

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10 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

See what I mean?  Bullshit stories left and right.  I bet he has some bullshit sailing stories that involve high winds and seas.  Too bored to check just now.

Yeah, I have all kinds stories about how shockingly bad those Gators performed.

And I have another little story too ... about the time I helped get your vindictive ass evicted from this place for a couple of blissful years.

The only reason you're back now is because BJ is no longer a mod. It won't last though, you have a supernatural ability to piss people off. It's uncanny, you could get yourself tossed out of a convention of deaf and blind carnival operators.

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

As a lefty, I'm concerned that we're not using him to any kind of advantage. He has already shown himself to be receptive to working with us. We're so caught up in this narrative of him being Satan incarnate that we don't see what's actually happening.

We read hyperbole like the kind that Meli cuts and pastes here, and we don't remind ourselves where we actually are.

I liked Obama, but his drone war was a human rights disaster. We have a chance to address this problem with Trump's new drone policy. But we're so busy repeating that evil incarnate thing that it doesn't even have room in the newspapers. I have at least ten examples like this.

We have an opportunity, because he has contained the extremists in a manageable space. We can work on urban poverty and good economic policy, if we could just lift our eyes up for a few moments.

I take care of my 94 year old WWII-wounded dad. His speech patterns are straight Trump, not because of his politics, but because of his generation. Trump is confusing because his relatively youngish looks betray his age. We don't understand him, he doesn't understand us, and at least part of that is just shitty generational communications.

OK which reich-winger hacked into Wolfey’s system and posted this?

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