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pemakris

Severe Hull Damage

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Hello,

I maybe  interested in this boat but I can't estimate the severeness of the damage. The price looks extra good, (9.000) euros for a 40 feet Beneteau Oceanis, year 1992.

Although I am a bit handy(I own a machine shop) I have no experience with hull repairs and fiber glass, neither I can estimate if the location of the hole is at a critical section of the boat so it might be not repairable.

 

Opinions please?

 

14102858_7_b.jpg

14102858_8_b.jpg

14102858_9_b.jpg

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The hole seeps to be at the position where the rudder stock used to be, so yea, it's a critical section ;-)

It is reparable, the extra effort is to replace the rudder.

steps would be more or less:

- Clean and scarf the hole, make an outside mold, re laminate the hull, remove mold, drill hole for rudder post

- place rudder pipe, laminate rudder pipe, laminate structural parts around rudder if damaged, place lower bearing, mount rudder.

Looking at the damage you'll probably need a new rudder as well, and there will probably be damage at the upper bearing (cockpit floor) as well. It looks like the rudder hit something pretty hard. You'll also need a new propellor....

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What he said ^ plus if the rudder was ripped off in a rock incident as evidenced by the bent prop then the interior has had likely a bath and all that entails. Wiring, engine, batteries, etc etc. For $9k, you may as well go and get drunk a lot because there is every chance youll end up pissing it against a wall if you buy it at least if youre drunk you might get laid instead of this thing fucking you.

However if you insist on getting married then for the sake of all christendom please spend 500 on a survey, apart from being a 15k repair job at least if you get the pros to do it, there is going to be all that 1990 worn out crap to deal with as well.

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9 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

What he said ^ plus if the rudder was ripped off in a rock incident as evidenced by the bent prop then the interior has had likely a bath and all that entails. Wiring, engine, batteries, etc etc. For $9k, you may as well go and get drunk a lot because there is every chance youll end up pissing it against a wall if you buy it at least if youre drunk you might get laid instead of this thing fucking you.

 However if you insist on getting married then for the sake of all christendom please spend 500 on a survey, apart from being a 15k repair job at least if you get the pros to do it, there is going to be all that 1990 worn out crap to deal with as well.

Wow, honestly, I enjoy your writing.

 

You are correct, [I just added the link of the ad but it's in Greek].

Ι'll give a try and translate the text on the add (roughly and please excuse my english):

Quote

Stuck in sand and a part of the rubber went into sand and created this hole (30cm by 40cm). [The rudder acted as a lever]. Sea water filled the boat up to her middle. The water was pumped the same day of the accident. The interior was washed with clean water. The engine was moved out of the boat and was washed [???] with petroleum [but it doesn't say about any damage to the engine].The electrical cabling has been destroyed.

 

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59 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

Have you checked the front?

No, I haven't seen her up close. You can see more photos in the link I placed above

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Looks like a bit of a project! Bit of a investment but you could get a nice boat out of it.

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It's kinda subtle, but I think I see a large transverse "wrinkle" in the bottom aft of the skeg that certainly was not in the original mold and might indicate a structural issue ...

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Take Gutterblack’s advice and get a thorough survey done – that could save you a lot of heartbreak and money.

When you are finished rehabing this boat (hull repair, wiring, engine work, refinish interior, probably new sails, etc.) you’ll end up spending $50k and a lot of time for a boat that you could have today for $50K to $60K.  

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/Beneteau-400-Oceanis-3207121/Portsmouth/RI/United-States#.W0NhSbgnYgM

I recognize that there is a location difference but it should serve as a reference point.

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It looks like too much damage for a pro repair to be economical.

If you can do the work yourself it wouldn't cost too much but still a lot. I'd say that $15K estimate would maybe be enough for a DIY repair.

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The key things to consider if contemplating a DIY repair 

Is the rudder shaft straight if yes the then the rudder is repairable. A very small bend can be dealt with. A new rudder is around 8k US plus shipping.

The glass work is straightforward and I have seen worse fixed in a week that includes laying up a new tube for the rudder shaft. BUT will the yard let you do the work yourself, lots of yards don't. Moving the boat will be fairly costly. 

Does the engine still run? Essential you see it running. Do not take anyones word for it you need a video at least.

Expect all electronics to be toast and you will have ongoing corrosion issues with all the wiring. 

If it is in Greece then you may have to satisfy the authorities that the boat is seaworthy after the repair . This will not be a trivial exercise. 

 

 

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I know somebody who fixed similar *looking* storm damage on a very comparable boat.  He wound up getting an extremely nice boat out of the deal.  While he saved a lot of money, even with pro repairs, it wasn't a steal.  The thing took a lot of coin to fix. 

The problem isn't the hole. Anybody can fix a hole.  The problem is the structural damage that may have occurred in addition to the hole.  That sort of damage can be hidden and you really want a good surveyor with some knowledge about this sort of damage to take a look at that. Along with all the other potential problems highlighted above.    

 

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For what you'll put into that boat to make it seaworthy again, not to mention a full rewire and repower (even if the motor is "good," it needs to be reinstalled), you have to decide how much you're willing to pay and how much sweat equity you want to put in. If you already know that you don't personally have the skills to repair this, then you have to shell out the money. Assuming that the all-up replacement is going to be in the 30-40k euro range (at least, after purchase, repairs, and new equipment), you could have this instead, ready to go: https://www.boatshop24.com/en/sun-fizz-40/Sailboat/1229682

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A few of us have been down this route, and it almost never pays off. Think about it this way, if a luxury car cost 300,000 when new and you pick one up for 20 what price level  do you think the parts and service are going to reflect? This is a big boat with a lot of hidden expensive labour just about everywhere., from what youre saying it appears you dont have a lot of experience so its hard for you to make a judgement call. Some people are very capable and might just patch it up, scratch around for second hand everything, load up the surfboards and sail it into the ground. That kind of person doesnt come to the internet for advice. But you dont get something for nothing, by the time you pay hardstand fees, enlist the help of professionals, learn some boatbuilding and associated repair skills you will have paid not only in cash but in time.

The other aspect is why are you considering this vessel? Are you in the 40ft boat market with 50k and happen to stumble across it, or do you have 20k and this seems like a lot of boat for the money?  If your budget does not extend to buying a good average example of this boat (and it probably doesnt i assume) then you should move on. There is no way that this boat could be made as good as one that hasnt sunk without spending a lot of time and money. My advice (if you want a cruising boat like this) is to arrange a bank loan and buy a good example, that way you get to go sailing now and in the long run it will be a lot cheaper.

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It'd be a great deal if you were getting paid the money to dispose of it. If you were to buy it, here's how it would pan out:

It'd take 3 to 4 x the cost to fix it compared to any original estimate.

It's take 3 to 4 x the time to fix it compared to any original estimate.

During that time, the effects would not be subtle. Most likely, you're wanting to buy this boat because you are on a limited budget. Every waking moment of your life will centre around either working your job for income or working on the boat. The money will pour out as fast as it comes in. Wiring, engines, joinery, structural defects etc won't take weeks to complete. They'll take months. And months. And months. If you're persistent, you'll stick at for long enough that you'll get to splash it. At that point you'll have a boat that was no cheaper, and arguably no better, than if you'd just saved the pennies from the day you brought it and then purchased a ready to go similar model on the day you eventually splash. On the other hand, If you fail to persist with this huge project, you will eventually dispose of it for cents on the dollar.

However, if you're not really that interested in sailing and have nothing better to do with your life or finances for the next three to six years, go for it!

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I agree ☝️ 

...but the flip side is that the OP might pick up some skills along the way. This has  not yet been mentioned in the value proposition.

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Hey guys thanks.

You are talking me into sense. 

I would not spend 50K on a boat, no way. I wouldn't spend 50K on anything that does not give you back money. And although charters may give some money back this is a very old boat for Greece (most sailboats for charters are fairly new and beefy here in the Aegean/Ionian sea).
I was willing to spent 20K all together, but apart from 20K being very unrealistic I don't really have the time to work on the boat (I tried a lot to convince my self otherwise).

It's exactly as Gutterblack said, seeing the ad, It felt it's too much boat for the money.

So thanks again, I am keeping away.

 

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Good move. That rudder was definitely not just "stuck in the sand", so the level of internal damage could be extensive.

14102858_a_b.jpg

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That interior area where the fiberglass repair will be taking place?...it's an lovely location to be operating a large grinder.

 

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There has to be some part of the job that's enjoyable to make it worthwhile.

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7 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

There has to be some part of the job that's enjoyable to make it worthwhile.

A masochist you are, seek advice you must!

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Agreed looks like the bulkhead behind the keel is torqued a bit. So check the area all around the keel, and the rest of the bulkheads for tearing apart from the hull.

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