Saorsa

If you want to "save the planet" and the human race

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Funny that, when I was on holiday I was standing at the check in desk in Athens with a young man bound for Lesbos. He was part of a project team The aim of which was to track trash drift on ocean currents via satellite and co ordinate the drift on the ground with nets to harvest the plastics.

sadly only works for surface trash but interesting.

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We have grocery bags from Trader Joe's that last a year or two. They are made of recycled plastic. The only time I don't use them is when I need more disposable plastic bags for dog duty.

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Plastic is made from hydrocarbons.  Hydrocarbons are a source of energy. 

If there was a way to extract energy (safely and cleanly) from plastic, it would go from being a pollutant to a resource to be collected, bought, sold and used.  

We need plastic-burning electrical generating stations paying money for waste plastic.  That would clean up a lot of the problem really fast.  

Anyone else have an idea on how to make plastic garbage a commodity?  

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I think that we need to just get going on this and other environmental issues. We sometimes get so hung up on all or nothing solutions that we don't make the personal choices that really add up in the long run. Saying that there is a huge problem in developing nations is only shifting the blame. We can control the mess we make and they need to control what they make. I noticed last winter than Antigua and Grenada both had programs to eliminate the use of plastic shopping bags. What I find bizarre when I shop in the US (most recently in Nevada is that they put an object with a handle in a plastic bag, sometimes doubling the bags. Found this with six packs of beer bottles. In really poor countries plastic bottles are very often used and resused for containers for other stuff. In southern Indonesia you bought gasoline for your scooter at a road side stand in a 2 litre plastic coke bottle.

 

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The world will continue and evolve quite happily in some shape and form long after we have made ourselves extinct. 

Image result for human evolution timeline clock  

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5 minutes ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

I think that we need to just get going on this and other environmental issues. We sometimes get so hung up on all or nothing solutions that we don't make the personal choices that really add up in the long run. Saying that there is a huge problem in developing nations is only shifting the blame. We can control the mess we make and they need to control what they make. I noticed last winter than Antigua and Grenada both had programs to eliminate the use of plastic shopping bags. What I find bizarre when I shop in the US (most recently in Nevada is that they put an object with a handle in a plastic bag, sometimes doubling the bags. Found this with six packs of beer bottles. In really poor countries plastic bottles are very often used and resused for containers for other stuff. In southern Indonesia you bought gasoline for your scooter at a road side stand in a 2 litre plastic coke bottle.

 

It starts with dumb things. Remove plastic straws from the yacht club. Provide a filtered water source at the club. Use compostable replacements for plastics. All those things can be done almost immediately.

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6 minutes ago, bugger said:

Plastic is made from hydrocarbons.  Hydrocarbons are a source of energy. 

If there was a way to extract energy (safely and cleanly) from plastic, it would go from being a pollutant to a resource to be collected, bought, sold and used.  

We need plastic-burning electrical generating stations paying money for waste plastic.  That would clean up a lot of the problem really fast.  

Anyone else have an idea on how to make plastic garbage a commodity?  

Plastic waste disposal is actually becoming more of an issue because China announced that they will no longer allow imports of plastic waste. They were importing huge quantities of plastic from other countries for recycling. I think we can take guidance from the 3Rs principle. First reduce use of plastics in the first place. Many places are eliminating the use plastic shopping bags and the world has not stopped functioning. We use multi-use plastic and cloth bags that have lasted for about 2 years so far. I would like to see us go back to using glass bottles for beer and soft drinks that are refilled multiple times. We have a good system in Ontario for beer and something more than 90% go back to the breweries. Finally recycle. This only works if as pointed out a use can be found for the discarded plastics. Some can be broken down and the chemical components used to make new products. Last call would be burning but I think this produces major problems with the release of nasty chemicals (furans and the like) that are dangerous in parts per billion. Where I live we have a good recycling program but stuff that is not recycled is burned in a modern incinerator that does produce electricity.

 

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13 minutes ago, Keith said:

looks like the world needs to deal with China's disrespect for everything but wealth and money.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44738952

Yeah, but they signed a treaty.  That's gotta count for something.

The worstest thing though is that the  bastards are tired of importing our plastic garbage so we can't pretend it just disappears after it hits the green bin.

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1 minute ago, Saorsa said:

Yeah, but they signed a treaty.  That's gotta count for something.

The worstest thing though is that the  bastards are tired of importing our plastic garbage so we can't pretend it just disappears after it hits the green bin.

The worst part is, China is one of the largest and highest polluters on the planet, and everyone else likes too look the other way.

and of course we have always needed to clean up the use of plastic, its been a serious problem for a long time.

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32 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Funny that, when I was on holiday I was standing at the check in desk in Athens with a young man bound for Lesbos. He was part of a project team The aim of which was to track trash drift on ocean currents via satellite and co ordinate the drift on the ground with nets to harvest the plastics.

sadly only works for surface trash but interesting.

That's interesting.  What will the nets be made of?

I like the Trash Wheel that they use in Baltimore Harbor.

MTW-blog-pic-e1463409918904.jpg

Make it robotic and solar powered.  Add a bit ore to it to create a device to compress and fuse the trash into a large block, say a cubic meter or so, and either harvest it or just dump it overboard.

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46 minutes ago, bugger said:

Plastic is made from hydrocarbons.  Hydrocarbons are a source of energy. 

If there was a way to extract energy (safely and cleanly) from plastic, it would go from being a pollutant to a resource to be collected, bought, sold and used.  

We need plastic-burning electrical generating stations paying money for waste plastic.  That would clean up a lot of the problem really fast.  

Anyone else have an idea on how to make plastic garbage a commodity?  

Baltimore has a trash burning plant. Nasty nasty chemicals come out of it :o

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China produces a lot of pollution, unless you calculate it per capita and then well, USA we're #1 (by a factor of 4).  They are also working hard to replace coal with wind and solar, the USA? Thanks to Trump not so much.  We don't need no stinkin EPA.  Coal, burn baby burn.

Some interesting articles out making pavers/bricks/stones from recycled plastic. 

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3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

China produces a lot of pollution, unless you calculate it per capita and then well, USA we're #1 (by a factor of 4).  They are also working hard to replace coal with wind and solar, the USA? Thanks to Trump not so much.  We don't need no stinkin EPA.  Coal, burn baby burn.

Some interesting articles out making pavers/bricks/stones from recycled plastic. 

Is CO2 "pollution" in this context? We use a lot of energy per capita, but other than that I thought we were pretty clean. Surely China has cornered the market for industrial chemical baby food and poisonous dog treats?

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1 minute ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Is CO2 "pollution" in this context? We use a lot of energy per capita, but other than that I thought we were pretty clean. Surely China has cornered the market for industrial chemical baby food and poisonous dog treats?

Yes, should have been more specific.  Of course if we can continue on our current course we can equal China in all kinds of stuff.  Meanwhile, we can avoid baby food and dog treats, air? eh, still a problem. 

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Is CO2 "pollution" in this context? We use a lot of energy per capita, but other than that I thought we were pretty clean. Surely China has cornered the market for industrial chemical baby food and poisonous dog treats?

They produce a lot of that pollution making and shipping stuff to us.  It would be a good thing to reduce consumption rather than recycle.

 

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8 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

They produce a lot of that pollution making and shipping stuff to us.  It would be a good thing to reduce consumption rather than recycle.

 

Yes, we have outsourced our pollution laws. Saying it differently, we don't care if China is polluted, as long as Akron is not.

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Who is this “we” you speak of?

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38 minutes ago, J28 said:

Who is this “we” you speak of?

Amerika

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3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

That's interesting.  What will the nets be made of?

I like the Trash Wheel that they use in Baltimore Harbor.

MTW-blog-pic-e1463409918904.jpg

Make it robotic and solar powered.  Add a bit ore to it to create a device to compress and fuse the trash into a large block, say a cubic meter or so, and either harvest it or just dump it overboard.

A step in the right direction.  Click on the link and read the stats.  I live and work in the Jones Falls Watershed.

And, there are 2 more deployed around the Harbor.

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3 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Baltimore has a trash burning plant. Nasty nasty chemicals come out of it :o

They swear it's clean, but I have my doubts.

Here is the website for that plant - Wheelabrator

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

A step in the right direction.  Click on the link and read the stats.  I live and work in the Jones Falls Watershed.

And, there are 2 more deployed around the Harbor.

I had Saorsa up at the Anchorage Marina just before moving south.  There was a huge drain that fed out into the harbor there.  It was boomed and after every rain there must have been half a ton or more that got flushed out into the harbor.  They had a manned pickup boat at the time that looks a similar design but not not so cute or energy efficient.

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1 minute ago, Saorsa said:

I had Saorsa up at the Anchorage Marina just before moving south.  There was a huge drain that fed out into the harbor there.  It was boomed and after every rain there must have been half a ton or more that got flushed out into the harbor.  They had a manned pickup boat at the time that looks a similar design but not not so cute or energy efficient.

That is Canton, where the 2nd device, named "Professor Trashwheel", was deployed. 

The 3rd device, named "Captain Trashwheel", is on the south side of the Patapsco, near Brooklyn.

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4 hours ago, mad said:

The world will continue and evolve quite happily in some shape and form long after we have made ourselves extinct. 

Image result for human evolution timeline clock  

That's why I put"save the planet" in quotes.

The planet will abide.

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4 hours ago, mad said:

The world will continue and evolve quite happily in some shape and form long after we have made ourselves extinct. 

Image result for human evolution timeline clock  

I have a question about "Inferred origin of life?" being identified as occurring at 9:18 at that point on the clockface.  Someone make a (minor) mistake?

Add to it everything identified as occurring between 51:12 and 54:59 appearing after the 11.

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Drop in the bucket, but these guys impressed me.   My new sailing hat with chin strap, after I lost my leather one in a capsize and my favorite cap in heavy winds.    I tacked back and forth for half an hour but couldn't find the last one I lost.    

This was made of 6 recycled water bottles.    The packaging tags and string are recycled and biodegradable.    It did ship in a moisture protecting plastic bag, but that was both 'degradable' and equipped with a carrying handle to be reused.   Cost was a couple dollars less then the Chinese made one at Cabela's.   

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Amerika

So you were just free-stylin’.  Probably sounded good in your head.  Once out in the ether, not so good.

But keep tryin’ - you’ll come up with a cogent thought sometime!

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25 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I have a question about "Inferred origin of life?" being identified as occurring at 9:18 at that point on the clockface.  Someone make a (minor) mistake?

Add to it everything identified as occurring between 51:12 and 54:59 appearing after the 11.

Who the fuck uses analog watches anymore, anyways?

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:
31 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I have a question about "Inferred origin of life?" being identified as occurring at 9:18 at that point on the clockface.  Someone make a (minor) mistake?

Add to it everything identified as occurring between 51:12 and 54:59 appearing after the 11.

Who the fuck uses analog watches anymore, anyways?

Good point.  It is funny that all clocks at school, except for the electronic one controlling the bells, are analog.  Every student who completes my class can read one, regardless of whether they could when they entered.

Anyway, if a student turned in something with that level error, I'd return it to be edited for "accuracy".

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Something I don't understand about this. The big push right now seems to be plastic bags and plastic straws.

When I was a kid straws were paper. Until the mid 70's bags were brown paper.

Why won't it work now?

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5 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

We have grocery bags from Trader Joe's that last a year or two. They are made of recycled plastic. The only time I don't use them is when I need more disposable plastic bags for dog duty.

Organic food is is not better and probably worse for the environment. 

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Something I don't understand about this. The big push right now seems to be plastic bags and plastic straws.

When I was a kid straws were paper. Until the mid 70's bags were brown paper.

Why won't it work now?

A British Colombian would think that way. The pulp industry is  wonderful for the environment. 

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23 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:
5 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

We have grocery bags from Trader Joe's that last a year or two. They are made of recycled plastic. The only time I don't use them is when I need more disposable plastic bags for dog duty.

Organic food is is not better and probably worse for the environment. 

Are you operating under the (incorrect) assumption that Trader Joe's is exclusively organic?

I know you'll deny that, and attempt to insult me, but your comment refers only to organic food, and not the variety Trader Joe's offers.

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Ok how about this. I am renovating and one of the new items is outdoor flood lighting surrounding all the buildings. I decided against dedicated LED fixtures in favor of traditional flood lamps. The LEDs may have a theoretical life of 50000 hours but in practice they fail sooner. Dedicated fixtures with integral LEDs can't be fixed and it is unlikely identical replacements will be available in the future.  Plus they have to be rewired, But LED flood lamps will be available and are easy to unscrew and replace. 

Normal incandescent floods come in cardboard boxes of 12 and more. The LEDs in contrast  come singly in a big bright cardboard Box with a molded plastic clam shell insert. theses in turn are packed 4 to a Display tray inside a larger cardboard box. The forty flood lamps created enough waist to fill a 60 gallon recycling bin. If these were generic incandescent the waste would be a tenth of that. 

If you are going to brag about the energy efficiency and protecting the environment with your LEDs why piss that away with tons of marketing waste.

Reminds me of those awful CFLs and the Mercury they have added to the land fills. 

So many of the "save the environment " movement's ideas are feel good environmental disasters. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Are you operating under the (incorrect) assumption that Trader Joe's is exclusively organic?

I know you'll deny that, and attempt to insult me, but your comment refers only to organic food, and not the variety Trader Joe's offers.

Trader Joe's is fine, just don't delude yourself that you are saving the environment shopping there.

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1 minute ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Ok how about this. I am renovating and one of the new items is outdoor flood lighting surrounding all the buildings. I decided against dedicated LED fixtures in favor of traditional flood lamps. The LEDs may have a theoretical life of 50000 hours but in practice they fail sooner. Dedicated fixtures with integral LEDs can't be fixed and it is unlikely identical replacements will be available in the future.  Plus they have to be rewired, But LED flood lamps will be available and are easy to unscrew and replace. 

Normal incandescent floods come in cardboard boxes of 12 and more. The LEDs in contrast  come singly in a big bright cardboard Box with a molded plastic clam shell insert. theses in turn are packed 4 to a Display tray inside a larger cardboard box. The forty flood lamps created enough waist to fill a 60 gallon recycling bin. If these were generic incandescent the waste would be a tenth of that. 

If you are going to brag about the energy efficiency and protecting the environment with your LEDs why piss that away with tons of marketing waste.

Reminds me of those awful CFLs and the Mercury they have added to the land fills. 

So many of the "save the environment " movement's ideas are feel good environmental disasters. 

By "traditional flood lamps", do you mean incandescent?  For how long will you be able to buy them?  Cost per kWh?

If you are only objecting to the marketing, you may have a point.

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2 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Trader Joe's is fine, just don't delude yourself that you are saving the environment shopping there.

Did anyone claim that as their reason for shopping there?  I must've missed it.

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Point on the wasteful packaging and having a reusable fixture when the LED fails.  Also easier to screw a new LED into the fixture in sloppy weather then to replace the fixture.  Demerit point on using incandescent bulbs for anything but a chicken warmer.   

Do you need the light pollution in the first place?   

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5 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

By "traditional flood lamps", do you mean incandescent?  For how long will you be able to buy them?  Cost per kWh?

If you are only objecting to the marketing, you may have a point.

Just the marketing packaging  

These are the lamps I am using. These are packed 4 in display tray and then a larger corrugated cardboard box. They are selling environmentalism with environmentally harmful packaging.  

Picture 1 of 5

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24 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

The LEDs may have a theoretical life of 50000 hours but in practice they fail sooner.

Oh really?  So how many hours did yours last?

Sounds like more of the usual unsubstantiated shill bullshit to me.

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6 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Stop using plastic and figure out a way to clean it up.

Just stopping won't help a lot.  Quite a bit comes from the underdeveloped world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/01/20/by-2050-there-will-be-more-plastic-than-fish-in-the-worlds-oceans-study-says/?utm_term=.c7f9c5dd3d00

CF000313%2018x24.jpg

PHO-09Mar14-154288-1024x768.jpg&w=1484

 

There is considerable suspicion that  Chris Jordan stages his bird photos.  I think he dismisses that complaint, arguing that it is art with a message. 

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9 minutes ago, random said:

Oh really?  So how many hours did yours last?

Sounds like more of the usual unsubstantiated shill bullshit to me.

I installed the first set of LED flood lamps about 3 years ago and turn the house floods on an average of 3 hours per night. Less for the Stables, Guest house and other out buildings and of the 40 or so lamps about 10 failed within those 3 years. I'll see how long these sylvania lamps last. 

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Something I don't understand about this. The big push right now seems to be plastic bags and plastic straws.

When I was a kid straws were paper. Until the mid 70's bags were brown paper.

Why won't it work now?

It still does. Our YC replaced the plastic straws with paper ones.

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8 minutes ago, random said:
32 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

The LEDs may have a theoretical life of 50000 hours but in practice they fail sooner.

Oh really?  So how many hours did yours last?

Sounds like more of the usual unsubstantiated shill bullshit to me.

I’ve heard more in the realm of 25,000 hours.

Interesting reading  

https://insights.regencylighting.com/understanding-led-lifespan-how-long-do-led-lamps-and-fixtures-actually-last

 

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16 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I installed the first set of LED flood lamps about 3 years ago and turn the house floods on an average of 3 hours per night. Less for the Stables, Guest house and other out buildings and of the 40 or so lamps about 10 failed within those 3 years. I'll see how long these sylvania lamps last. 

Seriously Jack.  Do you think that anyone here believes a single word that you post?

You have no credibility, you only do it to shit post political bullshit for others to find.  You are a lying dishonest cunt, we all know that.

Grabbed any pussy lately?

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7 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Stop using plastic and figure out a way to clean it up.

Just stopping won't help a lot.  Quite a bit comes from the underdeveloped world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/01/20/by-2050-there-will-be-more-plastic-than-fish-in-the-worlds-oceans-study-says/?utm_term=.c7f9c5dd3d00

CF000313%2018x24.jpg

PHO-09Mar14-154288-1024x768.jpg&w=1484

 

In my time here this is the only post you’ve made I can agree with.  I ditched  plastic cups and bottles last year.  Don’t have much use for straws.  One good idea would be to ban milk and juice plastic bottles.  They used to come in glass or paper

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1 hour ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Just the marketing packaging  

These are the lamps I am using. These are packed 4 in display tray and then a larger corrugated cardboard box. They are selling environmentalism with environmentally harmful packaging.  

Picture 1 of 5

40 bulbs at 1100 lumens looks pretty small for your stated purpose.    I think your lighting designer let you down.  

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7 hours ago, bugger said:

Plastic is made from hydrocarbons.  Hydrocarbons are a source of energy. 

If there was a way to extract energy (safely and cleanly) from plastic, it would go from being a pollutant to a resource to be collected, bought, sold and used.  

We need plastic-burning electrical generating stations paying money for waste plastic.  That would clean up a lot of the problem really fast.  

Anyone else have an idea on how to make plastic garbage a commodity?  

There are two well known techniques for decomposing plastics.  The first is a gasifier.  The second is a pyrolyzer.  For plastics, it's mostly going to be a gasifier.  For generic organics and some special cases, a pyrolyzer offer some unique advantages but they are a less generally applicable technology.  Both work but both have issues with materials handling for which there are solutions.  They're generically more expensive than land filling because land filling is dig a hole and bury.  That's pretty tough to compete with price wise.

Both are generically 'banned' by most communities because they're considered 'incinerators' because we don't distinguish technologies very well. 

That isn't an issue of invention.  This is an issue of politics. 

 

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1 hour ago, random said:

Sounds like more of the usual unsubstantiated shill bullshit to me.

And who would know better than you?

I just replaced an LED that lasted no longer, maybe not as long as an incandescent.

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1 hour ago, random said:

Oh really?  So how many hours did yours last?

Sounds like more of the usual unsubstantiated shill bullshit to me.

My Amazon special turned into a strobe light after maybe 40 hours of use over a year.   I like screw in instead of replacing the shit quality fixture.   

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1 hour ago, random said:

Oh really?  So how many hours did yours last?

Sounds like more of the usual unsubstantiated shill bullshit to me.

Ah - that explains why I just had to replace one I installed 3 years ago and was used less than 3 hours/day. I obviously didn't realise that it was still working fine, just that the light emitted had shifted out of my visible spectrum......

FKT

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

40 bulbs at 1100 lumens looks pretty small for your stated purpose.    I think your lighting designer let you down.  

What is my stated purpose?  The choice of lamp was dictated  by Lowes who was changing brands and had discounted them to 4.99 each. Then ran a further clearance sale of any on sale lamp under $5  at $1 each. 

So I could not resist; $60 to relamp all my exterior spots and have 20 spares?  And they illuminate just fine. 

 

image.png

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We have 8 narrow floods in the kitchen. Started with incandescent cause, we’ll, that’s what there was. Went to fluorescent but was never happy with the color not the start up time. Went LED and loved it. Till 1/2 started flickering. We now have a hodgepodge of different LEDs. Stated life isn’t anywhere close to real life, when you turn on&off with frequency and have dirty power. 

I suppose it would be cheaper to just leave them on all the time as theyre so efficient, rather than have them burn out from cycling on and off. Seems silly however.

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11 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

wrong image. My bad

 

It doesn't matter which image, you still aren't very bright.

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21 hours ago, bugger said:

Plastic is made from hydrocarbons.  Hydrocarbons are a source of energy. 

If there was a way to extract energy (safely and cleanly) from plastic, it would go from being a pollutant to a resource to be collected, bought, sold and used.  

We need plastic-burning electrical generating stations paying money for waste plastic.  That would clean up a lot of the problem really fast.  

Anyone else have an idea on how to make plastic garbage a commodity?  

It's true that plastic has lots of hydrogen energy in it, but unlike relatively loose hydrogen bonds like in methane, the hydrogen in long-chain hydrocarbons like in plastic are bound into very strong and complicated molecules. Pulling the hydrogen out of them almost always takes lots more energy than you can get from the hydrogen itself. And that's the reason plastics are so valuable, it's because of those relatively stable molecules ... because you can put food or water or chemicals into a plastic container and have little interaction between the contents and the container. 

But when you burn plastics, you can't just burn the hydrogen, because of those complex molecular chains, you end up burning all the other crap too, and then you form all sorts of weird and toxic new molecules. There are ways to gassify certain plastics, and get out the hydrogen bit by by, in a more clean way, but that only works for certain plastics. The thing about plastics is that it's like saying "boats." There are hundreds on hundreds of types of plastics and variations of molecules, every one has different challenges to recycle or dispose or convert.

We don't really need new ideas on how to make plastic garbage a commodity, we're decent at that already when we recycle it. It's more about making it a global effort, because the profit margins on recycling plastic are so narrow. A much more necessary first step is to look at the oceans as an ecosystem, rather than a place to dump all our shit. Cmillikan's point is the point here, this isn't a scientific issue, it's a political one.

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15 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

I’ve heard more in the realm of 25,000 hours.

Interesting reading  

https://insights.regencylighting.com/understanding-led-lifespan-how-long-do-led-lamps-and-fixtures-actually-last

 

The LEDs themselves last tens of thousands of hours and longer.

But we can't screw LEDs into a light fixture because they're typically made to operate on about 5 VDC. So the LEDs are packaged with something like a rectifier, and a little computer control in there, and then the elephant makes his appearance, the heat management on those fuggers is an outright bitch.

Because old fashioned light bulbs didn't give a rat's ass about getting hot, they liked to get hot. But LEDs operate on a solid state bandgap, they have to stay relatively cool, or else the material dissociates and they no longer work. So that cheap little LED bulb has all kinds of heat-management technologies built into it, and if you put it into a fixture where the heat gets trapped, then the bulb won't last long. Old LED bulbs used to have those heat fins to let the heat out better.

And of course, there has to be a little planned obsolescence too, because the light bulb companies aren't going to tool up to the tune of billions of dollars to make LED bulbs if their future market evaporates with bulbs that last fuckin' forever. So they don't last forever. They'll last a little longer than old bulbs in most common fixtures, but unlike CFLs, they don't have mercury in them, and unlike incan, they are much more efficient per unit of visible light. (They're actually the exact same efficiency as old-fashioned light bulbs if you consider the whole spectrum.)

I suspect that if you have a very good, heat-venting fixture, in a cool climate, that you can get some incredibly long lives out of LED bulbs.

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13 hours ago, cmilliken said:

That isn't an issue of invention.  This is an issue of politics. 

And this is the whole point. Plastics are one of the most incredible inventions of the last hundred-some years. They save energy, they save lives, they save food. We don't need to stop using plastics, if anything, we need to use more plastics. We need to shitcan our fucked-up resolve that don't care about keeping plastics in a closed use loop. We need to stop shitting anywhere we can drop our drawers.

The full-cycle energy cost of plastics almost always beats glass and paper and other more "natural" choices, especially because we can so cheaply reuse plastic. It's an issue of politics, and also personal resolve. I know that our town's recycling efforts are are very good, if that PET plastic bottle makes it into the recycling can, it's going to be reused. I make the effort to make sure that the plastic and the paper, the metal and the glass get into that can, and I clean it, I separate the little pieces like peeling the paper label off the can, and the plastic film off the cardboard box. Dirty, fat-stained cardboard like a pizza box can't be recycled, that goes into compost.

But others in my family sometimes can't be bothered, they just toss it into the trash can. I can complain about the politics, and I will, but I need to get my family on board with good recycling first. It's an issue of education too.

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On 7/9/2018 at 9:51 PM, d'ranger said:

It doesn't matter which image, you still aren't very bright.

I do glow slightly in the dark.

Oh and I was bright enough to get into Stuyvesant and MIT.  How about you? 

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2 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I do glow slightly in the dark.

Oh and I was bright enough to get into Stuyvesant and MIT.  How about you? 

Malarky.thumb.jpg.11399e782f06328afae1a1c809e1a3d5.jpg

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7 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

I do glow slightly in the dark.

Oh and I was bright enough to get into Stuyvesant and MIT.  How about you? 

This is new. I mean, using your old ID of Happy Jack, you regaled is with tales of having “attended” MIT. When challenged to produce a photo of your diploma, you lied about some stupid restriction regarding showing it. I have had 3 students who are MIT alum and they’ve never heard of that policy. In fact, 2 outright laughed at the absurdity of your claim. 

Nw, you claim to have attended Stuyvesant. Do they have the same restriction?

You must have been young when you immigrated from Canada, if you attended HS in NYC. Under 13 young. 

I call “bullshit”. 

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On 7/9/2018 at 11:54 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

Baltimore has a trash burning plant. Nasty nasty chemicals come out of it :o

Just attended a talk about the Wheelabrator and its impact on Baltimore and the surrounding area.  Sobering stats. 

I plan to incorporate much of the data into lessons this coming school year.

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On 7/11/2018 at 9:09 PM, Bus Driver said:

You must have been young when you immigrated from Canada, if you attended HS in NYC. Under 13 young. 

Based on the posting history, I could believe he's still younger than 13.

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On 7/11/2018 at 4:09 AM, Bus Driver said:

This is new. I mean, using your old ID of Happy Jack, you regaled is with tales of having “attended” MIT. When challenged to produce a photo of your diploma, you lied about some stupid restriction regarding showing it. I have had 3 students who are MIT alum and they’ve never heard of that policy. In fact, 2 outright laughed at the absurdity of your claim. 

Nw, you claim to have attended Stuyvesant. Do they have the same restriction?

You must have been young when you immigrated from Canada, if you attended HS in NYC. Under 13 young. 

I call “bullshit”. 

Read closely, he’s not even claiming attending. Just “getting in” which could be read as acceptance. But then he did his 2 years, and went back to Utah St.

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bright enough to get into Stuyvesant and MIT.

All that means is he found the address and walked in the door.

From whence he was promptly ejected.

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Starbucks bans plastic straws

(resulting in the use of more plastic)

Fake News Tom.  You continue to post misinformation

You are a shill for everything that's wrong with the planet.

Nice job re-posting shit paid for by vested interest.

"David H. Koch, one of billionaire Koch brothers and co-owner of Koch Industries, is listed as a Trustee of the Reason Foundation. [3] Julian Morris, past Executive Director of the International Policy Network (UK), and a prominent climate change skeptic, is the Vice President of Research for the Reason Foundation. [4] According to Greenpeace, the Reason Foundation has received over $2,325,758 million from Koch-related foundations since 1997Data archived from Conservative Transparency, going back to the 1980s lists funding at over $2.9 million.[9][10] "

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Tom's mates

KochBros.thumb.jpg.5634ca9bff462f6afaf36d15d4eeab6e.jpg

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Looks like we're going to have to ... GASP.. deal with our own garbage..  Looks like China has some negotiating power in the trade wars after all.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trash-piles-us-china-closes-door-recycling-012928312.html

 

US waste handlers say they expect China will close its doors to all recycled materials by 2020 -- an impossibly short deadline.

"There is no single and frankly, probably not even a group of countries, that can take in the volume that China used to take," warns Adina Renee Adler of the Washington-based Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries.

 

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This one bums me big time.  I hope some other country takes up the slack, or some dying town in the Midwest.   

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For the last 20 or so years, several Indian tribes have offered up their land for storage of waste but it gets routinely blocked by State and Federal action.

We relegated the plains Indians to some of the most God-forsaken parts of the country... and they may have actually found a use for the crappy land we 'gave' them.

I hope that people make the hard choices and get on with dealing with our garbage.  We've been 'outsourcing' it for far to long IMHO.

 

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Some town in Nebraska?  was willing to take the prisoners from Gitmo but Congress said no.   If flatlander Christians are willing to face off with Muslim terrorists, they surely could recycle our waste.     My hat didn’t have to come from Sri Lanka.  

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On 7/9/2018 at 1:13 PM, SloopJonB said:

Something I don't understand about this. The big push right now seems to be plastic bags and plastic straws.

When I was a kid straws were paper. Until the mid 70's bags were brown paper.

Why won't it work now?

 

Are you listening ?

graduate-plastics_sm1.jpg

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10 hours ago, cmilliken said:

Looks like we're going to have to ... GASP.. deal with our own garbage..  Looks like China has some negotiating power in the trade wars after all.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trash-piles-us-china-closes-door-recycling-012928312.html

 

US waste handlers say they expect China will close its doors to all recycled materials by 2020 -- an impossibly short deadline.

"There is no single and frankly, probably not even a group of countries, that can take in the volume that China used to take," warns Adina Renee Adler of the Washington-based Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries.

 

Yes as I said The worst thing is that the  bastards are tired of importing our plastic garbage so we can't pretend it just disappears after it hits the green bin.

Remember the great garbage barge scandal of 1987?

We may have to start charging China a deposit on shipping containers.

 

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