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Yesterday my son Will received his diploma in Yacht and Powercraft Design with High Honours from Southampton Solent.

I wish he was allowed share some of his work here, some of it is quite stunning. He received one of the top thesis grades in the program and designed a brilliant boat, among other things. Sadly SSU doesn't allow sharing of these sorts of things to fight plagiarism, so we're all the poorer.

He's headed back to Betts Boats in Anacortes in August.

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Congrats Will!

 

And BJ, This is one of the milestones where it is appropriate to congratulate parents, so kudos to you and your wife for raising this fine young man.

(it amuses me when people get congratulated for having a baby, the appropriate thing then is to say "good luck, hope it goes well"...  this has gone well!)

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Ain't the internet grand? They also gave Jason Ker and a former Captain of the Queen Mary 2 honorary doctorates. And the closing remarks from the Chancellor - former First Sea Lord Admiral The Right Honourable Lord West of Spithead - were bboth heartfelt and amusing. A nice ceremony overall, and delightfully efficient getting everyone through.

 

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3 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

I wish he was allowed share some of his work here, some of it is quite stunning. He received one of the top thesis grades in the program and designed a brilliant boat, among other things. Sadly SSU doesn't allow sharing of these sorts of things to fight plagiarism, so we're all the poorer.

Congrats to Will.

Is that a "forever" ban? Is there any loophole? Like maybe Bob could draw a cartoon of what Will did or something? Very curious what he came up with.

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BJ, Will has a very bright future ahead of him. I would hire him in a heartbeat to design a boat. You and your wife should be very proud. I will visit Will this summer.

 

For the record, I have seen some of his work and it is brilliant. He will be the next Bob Perry (only a bit quieter.)

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Congrats to Will and all the Porter family.  Looking forward to seeing Will's work.

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2 hours ago, kimbottles said:

For the record, I have seen some of his work and it is brilliant. He will be the next Bob Perry (only a bit quieter.)

Now I really want to see!

Wait, didn't that Perry guy design dangerously high-performance "cruisers" in his youth?

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Let me just say one word.....: "Plastics".

 

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He's tall isn't he? Congrats and well done!

I look forward to hearing more about him as he advances his career and portfolio. 

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You and your wife done good - you raised a winner.

Congratulations to all of you.

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Congratulations to all of you!

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Nice ! Thanks for posting !

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Nice to hear about this great success. Congratulations to Will and the family (and extended family) that raised him.

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I can't share my work, but I can throw up a few renders. This is my dissertation, a 47 foot well performing livaboard cruising boat. VPP results suggest 220 mile days in 16 true on a reach. 

31311327_1907163729376574_6823742953534521344_o.jpg

31347889_1907163709376576_2857144659140935680_o.jpg

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31381197_1907163746043239_8122608692399964160_o.jpg

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Well done BJ. Also well done on clearly outpunting your coverage when marrying.

Congratulations to Will. I recently had the pleasure of meeting a couple of young naval architects who are on staff at Brooklin Boat Yard. Amidst all of the griping and complaining about "kids today", we sometimes lose sight of the many, many exceptional young people out there.

My summer intern this year is an extraordinary young lady, pre-med at Yale, who outperforms expectations at every turn.

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5 hours ago, Elegua said:

He's tall isn't he? Congrats and well done!

I look forward to hearing more about him as he advances his career and portfolio. 

It's the hat. He's only about 6'4".

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6 hours ago, DDW said:

Let me just say one word.....: "Plastics".

 

Yeah, I expected something completely different when I opened this thread!  Congratulations!

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10 hours ago, kimbottles said:

BJ, Will has a very bright future ahead of him. I would hire him in a heartbeat to design a boat. You and your wife should be very proud. I will visit Will this summer.

 

For the record, I have seen some of his work and it is brilliant. He will be the next Bob Perry (only a bit quieter.)

Does he play guitar?

:D

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12 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Congrats to Will.

Is that a "forever" ban? Is there any loophole? Like maybe Bob could draw a cartoon of what Will did or something? Very curious what he came up with.

Pretty much forever any many aspects of his work. No drawings, technical data, writeups, etc.

The thesis was literally 100 pages of incredibly detailed design work.

Renderings apparently are OK as they are not easily useful to be plagiarized.

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Well done to all the Porters.

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I cannot believe that is the young boy who passed through the Chesapeake some years ago. AMAZING! Well done!

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8 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

It's the hat. He's only about 6'4".

Hmmm......Maybe it's because I remember you as taller. :D

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yes , i was just about to comment on Mr Potters stature B)

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Congrats from an old Southamton grad....just seems a long time ago......enjoy it and you will learn something from every boat, every trip and every walk around a marina or boatyard.

(and I'll claim a tiny tiny tiny bit of credit for being the first in the original thread 'where should Will go to school' to suggest Southampton Solent.......)

 

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Well done Will. Seems odd that they are so worried about plagarism. So many good theses are online these days.

Nice job on the rendering too. I like the extra wide cabin top. 

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2 hours ago, Elegua said:

Hmmm......Maybe it's because I remember you as taller. :D

I was 6' even when I was Will's age, though I think I've lost a cm or two since then.

I'm actually the short guy in my family, though we run broad across the shoulders. Believe it or not Will's frame and height come more from his mother's side. She's tiny, but her brothers are both in excess of 6'4" and slim of build.

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2 hours ago, Zonker said:

Well done Will. Seems odd that they are so worried about plagarism. So many good theses are online these days.

Nice job on the rendering too. I like the extra wide cabin top. 

Yes, seems odd to me as well. There are loads of boring master thesis gathering dust in the hope that somebody might open it sometime and when it gets to boat porn we can't access it. So unfair!

Congratulations Will.

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12 minutes ago, Panoramix said:
2 hours ago, Zonker said:

Well done Will. Seems odd that they are so worried about plagarism. So many good theses are online these days.

Nice job on the rendering too. I like the extra wide cabin top. 

Yes, seems odd to me as well. There are loads of boring master thesis gathering dust in the hope that somebody might open it sometime and when it gets to boat porn we can't access it. So unfair!

Congratulations Will.

I suspect it's a school-wide policy affecting all disciplines with which the yacht design folks get swept up.

Given the size of the program and the familiarity of the professors with each student, if someone stole a drawing and tried to pass it off I suspect they'd get caught out pretty quickly.

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The really stupid thing about the policy is that students can access past dissertations through the library anyways. There is a whole database of them online. 

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Thanks for posting the renderings, willp. The plagiarism rules do seem a bit nonsensical if you can access them anyway.

Your cruiser seeks to combine the advantages of a flush deck with the nicety of having side decks. In both cases, well done and I like where you put them.

The area where they meet is, I'm sorry to say, Admirable. But I'm a huge fan of the Society so that doesn't bother me a bit.

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Will,  They are just using the term plagiarism to deflect attention from what they really mean,  that the university owns the content you produced using university resources.  Any intellectual property, revenue potential or publication rights are owned by the university.

The lead paragraph from their policy pretty much sums it up:    "The University needs to protect its investment and rights in teaching and support materials, so that they can be enhanced, developed and improved over time as teaching students is a core activity. Similarly, the university needs to protect its rights to exploit IP when university facilities or resources have been used to develop the IP."    https://portal.solent.ac.uk/documents/academic-services/policies-procedures-guidelines/intellectual-property-rights-policy.pdf

The university, and all universities, arrange deals with academic publishers to make the content available under controlled situations, like the databases you access in the library.  These methods further cement the provenance of the informatio, discoveries, and the rights of the university to profit from it should a commercial use arise.  They restrict your publication in open forums like this to prevent commercial entities from copying that work, building the products, and very legally defending that they used publicly available free information from the internet as the base of their work.

Ahhh, the dirty world of academic publishing and intellectual property ownership in academics...    History somehow got us here driven from financial interests in the university.  Students, and even more so, professors are losing here.  Professors are starting to make small gains, and demand publication rights before signing with universities.  Students do have a real beef here... In a commercial world, the claim would be that you paid the university for use of their facilities and your professors were your employees... so their contribution to your work is a work-for-hire.  And in government funded universities, that your taxes funded it as well.  

Unfortunately, students funding lawyers to challenge the university is so unlikely that these policies will continue.

Now, back to sailing.... Very cool looking design!

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12 minutes ago, teamt said:

Will,  They are just using the term plagiarism to deflect attention from what they really mean,  that the university owns the content you produced using university resources.  Any intellectual property, revenue potential or publication rights are owned by the university.

The lead paragraph from their policy pretty much sums it up:    "The University needs to protect its investment and rights in teaching and support materials, so that they can be enhanced, developed and improved over time as teaching students is a core activity. Similarly, the university needs to protect its rights to exploit IP when university facilities or resources have been used to develop the IP."    https://portal.solent.ac.uk/documents/academic-services/policies-procedures-guidelines/intellectual-property-rights-policy.pdf

The university, and all universities, arrange deals with academic publishers to make the content available under controlled situations, like the databases you access in the library.  These methods further cement the provenance of the informatio, discoveries, and the rights of the university to profit from it should a commercial use arise.  They restrict your publication in open forums like this to prevent commercial entities from copying that work, building the products, and very legally defending that they used publicly available free information from the internet as the base of their work.

Ahhh, the dirty world of academic publishing and intellectual property ownership in academics...    History somehow got us here driven from financial interests in the university.  Students, and even more so, professors are losing here.  Professors are starting to make small gains, and demand publication rights before signing with universities.  Students do have a real beef here... In a commercial world, the claim would be that you paid the university for use of their facilities and your professors were your employees... so their contribution to your work is a work-for-hire.  And in government funded universities, that your taxes funded it as well.  

Unfortunately, students funding lawyers to challenge the university is so unlikely that these policies will continue.

Now, back to sailing.... Very cool looking design!

It makes more sense now, I wasn't aware of this, it's a bit sad, originally academia was meant to better human kind, not to do private work. it is also grossly unfair to design consultancies who (quite rightly) have to pay for the labour of their engineers/architects.

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Higher Education is a $1.3 trillion industry, and scientific and technical academic publishing is a $25 billion industry with a staggering 35% or more profit margin for market leaders.

On the bright side, that makes a lot of potential customers for Will's most excellent designs.

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I've always found that if you ask the writer of an interesting paper, they will happily sent it to you. (Shout out to Arash Eslamdoost who published the paper below that is really helping me with a current project)

2018 Analysis of the thrust deduction in waterjet propulsion – The Froude number dependence

Nobody but dive support boats use waterjets on a boat that only goes 12 knots. Very hard to predict resistance I am finding because most displacement hulls don't have immersed transoms!

Back to the congratulations:  Will - if you ever get to Vancouver, look me up. I'll show you around our office of about 75 persons. Lots of very clever people designing workboats. 4 guys just in the CFD department and full time cluster than is running stuff 24/7...

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Well done!

Congratulations to Will, and to his parents for being supportive of his ambitions and achievements.  

While the photo shows BJ in a suit, I think there is some probability he is either in bare feet or beach sandals.   :)

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You might be on to something. There is a certain resemblance here.

 

95ea55cc90f2c62705df004f1ed219a8--wilma-flintstone-marriage-vows.jpg

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Congratulations to Will, BJ, his mother, and the whole herd of other folks who had a hand in guiding him.

May your future be bright!

Dave

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Good luck Will.

I think that rendering is pretty unique with the full width deck and the aft cabin. I wouldn’t be able to design anything as interesting.

Good job folks! This one won’t be languishing in your basement 

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Congrats Will! Awesome job.  Mom and Dad, yah done good!  Drinks on me when you get to Hampton again!

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Belated congratulations from me, BJ. Both to your son for his accomplishments and to the parents who raised the son they're (deservedly) well proud of.

Though I have to say, having met you & your missus in person, it's hard to believe he gets his height from her side of the family. Then again, I come from short stock. :lol:

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Well, boys do inherit their intelligence from their mother...

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10 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Belated congratulations from me, BJ. Both to your son for his accomplishments and to the parents who raised the son they're (deservedly) well proud of.

Though I have to say, having met you & your missus in person, it's hard to believe he gets his height from her side of the family. Then again, I come from short stock. :lol:

I've got a cousin - the artist that did the statue for the Satanic Temple - who is 6'4+ and looks like he could be Will's brother. He was the spitting image of me as a kid; you could mix our elementary school pix up and they'd be tough to sort. There's height on my side too, but I didn't get much of it relative to the other men.

Kathy's brothers are about 6'3" and 6'5".

 

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3 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Well, boys do inherit their intelligence from their mother...

Thank God for that!!

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congrats to will and the porter family.

it seems like yesterday when bj first told will was going to study yacht design and they were deciding where to go to.

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Congratulations to Will and the whole family. BJ and company must be immensely proud. I look forward to seeing what comes off Will's digital drawing board going forward 

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Just saw this. Congrats Will, and Kudos to BJ and wife for raising such a fine smart kid. I predict a bright future.

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On 7/12/2018 at 7:30 AM, willp14335 said:

I can't share my work, but I can throw up a few renders. This is my dissertation, a 47 foot well performing livaboard cruising boat. VPP results suggest 220 mile days in 16 true on a reach. 

31311327_1907163729376574_6823742953534521344_o.jpg

31347889_1907163709376576_2857144659140935680_o.jpg

31369164_1907163796043234_1713478104682332160_o.jpg

31381197_1907163746043239_8122608692399964160_o.jpg

You need to spend a little less time on the computer and a bit more time at sea.

Non continuous side decks on a chined tip truck are a recipe for disaster.

Your floors are going to be quite high to make that extended coach roof width useful and at 47ft it will be commodious enough without. 

Congrats on the Diploma.

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3 hours ago, Priscilla said:

You need to spend a little less time on the computer and a bit more time at sea.

Non continuous side decks on a chined tip truck are a recipe for disaster.

Your floors are going to be quite high to make that extended coach roof width useful and at 47ft it will be commodious enough without. 

Congrats on the Diploma.

He's only had so many years on the planet. How many more was he supposed to spend on a boat?

I think the partial flush deck thing is an interesting idea but you make a good point.

If I step out from behind that dodger to go forward, those extendo-stanchions look like a bit of a reach, even for my orangutan arms.

Some handles on the dodger roof would be good.

One good thing: going up the side deck, there's no way I'd have the inevitable fuel and water jugs in my way. Which does raise the question of where they would be, since they do seem inevitable.

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

He's only had so many years on the planet. How many more was he supposed to spend on a boat?

I think the partial flush deck thing is an interesting idea but you make a good point.

If I step out from behind that dodger to go forward, those extendo-stanchions look like a bit of a reach, even for my orangutan arms.

Some handles on the dodger roof would be good.

One good thing: going up the side deck, there's no way I'd have the inevitable fuel and water jugs in my way. Which does raise the question of where they would be, since they do seem inevitable.

With hydrogenerators, a boat that sails well in light winds can do without the fuel jugs and if you have a watermaker you just need to carry 1l per person per day in case of emergency. Most boats from here who go for the round the atlantic sabbatical don't carry jugs on deck, it can be dangerous if you end up in bad weather.

TBH I like the concept of the boat, I just think that the deck is too busy, in an hypothetical worldf if I was the client I would probably have asked the saloon and the galley to be in the rear cabin, the dodger would end further forward and it would be possible to step straight from the cockpit to the deck. Separating the sleeping area from the galley/saloon/cockpit is good in my books and only big boats can do it effectively.

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56 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

With hydrogenerators, a boat that sails well in light winds can do without the fuel jugs and if you have a watermaker you just need to carry 1l per person per day in case of emergency. Most boats from here who go for the round the atlantic sabbatical don't carry jugs on deck, it can be dangerous if you end up in bad weather.

I can't stand jugs on deck. You've addressed two of three reasons I see them. What about fuel for the dink? (You know, the one that will do a 20 knot cruising speed with 4 aboard?)

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4 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:
8 hours ago, Priscilla said:

You need to spend a little less time on the computer and a bit more time at sea.

Non continuous side decks on a chined tip truck are a recipe for disaster.

Your floors are going to be quite high to make that extended coach roof width useful and at 47ft it will be commodious enough without. 

Congrats on the Diploma.

He's only had so many years on the planet. How many more was he supposed to spend on a boat?

I think the partial flush deck thing is an interesting idea but you make a good point.

If I step out from behind that dodger to go forward, those extendo-stanchions look like a bit of a reach, even for my orangutan arms.

Some handles on the dodger roof would be good.

One good thing: going up the side deck, there's no way I'd have the inevitable fuel and water jugs in my way. Which does raise the question of where they would be, since they do seem inevitable.

It's possible that Priscilla isn't aware that Will spent three of his twenty-one years living on a boat and has more blue water miles than most adults commenting on internet forums about these things.

There's a lot of...stuff...spelled out in painstaking details that Will isn't allowed to share. If he could put the thesis up it would answer a lot of questions, but he can't do that.

The jerry cans...there are two lockers on each side of the stern that will each hold five jerry cans below deck. Of course you can use the lockers for other things, but there's no real need to lash cans on deck since you can store ten in vented lockers out of the sun and waves.

As far as "chined tip truck" goes, that's just being rude. The math behind the boat shows a stable, fast design. It won't be tippy. The thesis wouldn't have gotten one of the highest marks they gave out if it was unsafe, tippy or dangerous in the eyes of his professors.

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2 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I can't stand jugs on deck. You've addressed two of three reasons I see them. What about fuel for the dink? (You know, the one that will do a 20 knot cruising speed with 4 aboard?)

For this I don't have an answer apart from not having a 20 knots dink!

I think that many use a small 2 or 3hp outboard, a 10l can that fits in the lockers will feed the thing for a while, then when it is finished you just row...

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2 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:
3 hours ago, Panoramix said:

With hydrogenerators, a boat that sails well in light winds can do without the fuel jugs and if you have a watermaker you just need to carry 1l per person per day in case of emergency. Most boats from here who go for the round the atlantic sabbatical don't carry jugs on deck, it can be dangerous if you end up in bad weather.

I can't stand jugs on deck. You've addressed two of three reasons I see them. What about fuel for the dink? (You know, the one that will do a 20 knot cruising speed with 4 aboard?)

Will hates them too. He's never forgiven me for putting them on Evenstar...

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4 hours ago, savoir said:

What would be the disaster ?

Posting a rendering in a thread without being able to post all the detail defending the design when the inevitable detractors show up...

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9 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

The jerry cans...there are two lockers on each side of the stern that will each hold five jerry cans below deck. Of course you can use the lockers for other things, but there's no real need to lash cans on deck since you can store ten in vented lockers out of the sun and waves.

Hooray for Will!

(And dinks that will do 20 knots with four aboard!)

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The people who criticize jerry cans on deck tend to be people who have never sailed in a place where the nearest diesel is 500 miles away and even then you have to hike to a gas station.

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9 minutes ago, savoir said:

The people who criticize jerry cans on deck tend to be people who have never sailed in a place where the nearest diesel is 500 miles away and even then you have to hike to a gas station.

Very few people go to such places.

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26 minutes ago, savoir said:

The people who criticize jerry cans on deck tend to be people who have never sailed in a place where the nearest diesel is 500 miles away and even then you have to hike to a gas station.

The people who criticize jerry cans on deck also tend to be people who deplore the tendency to motor through calms and to burn diesel to power a condo-style stash of gadgetry.

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1 hour ago, savoir said:

And they carry jerry cans on deck when they do.

This. I agree jerry cans on deck are an eyesore, inconvenient, and everything other criticism made. But sometimes fuel capacity needs to be temporarily expanded for a delivery, when otherwise not needed. I've done that, also cribbed and lashed a 90 gal tank onto the cockpit sole of a powerboat, and lashed a couple 55 gal drums on the foredeck of a CSY to deliver to islands (it's motorsailing upwind most of the way). Do what ya gotta do for a temporary solution. The permanent solution is adding extra proper tankage, of course. 

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32 minutes ago, RKoch said:

This. I agree jerry cans on deck are an eyesore, inconvenient, and everything other criticism made. But sometimes fuel capacity needs to be temporarily expanded for a delivery, when otherwise not needed. I've done that, also cribbed and lashed a 90 gal tank onto the cockpit sole of a powerboat, and lashed a couple 55 gal drums on the foredeck of a CSY to deliver to islands (it's motorsailing upwind most of the way). Do what ya gotta do for a temporary solution. The permanent solution is adding extra proper tankage, of course. 

Unless it is a very bad boat it is quicker to sail upwind than motorsail.

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3 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Very few people go to such places.

But those of us that have tend to bring jerry cans.

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3 hours ago, savoir said:

The people who criticize jerry cans on deck tend to be people who have never sailed in a place where the nearest diesel is 500 miles away and even then you have to hike to a gas station.

Or places with fuel but without fuel docks.

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44 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

Unless it is a very bad boat it is quicker to sail upwind than motorsail.

That's a pretty broad and useless generalization as it pays no attention to the reality of the situation.

I've got about an 800 nm range under power. My choices when I'm sailing more than a few hundred miles are very different than when making coastal jaunts.

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Will has put his design out there and I have offered my opinion.

If you want to reinvent the wheel with a design concept be prepared to listen to other opinions or your career will be pretty short.

That hull will ride on its chine and heeled to weather imagine trying to journey forward clambering over the aircraft carrier coach roof.

Vertigo comes to mind along with the opportunity to get clocked by that boom.

I am not raining on the young fellas parade just calling it as I see.

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Or places with fuel but without fuel docks.

Did you try buying diesel in Luganville ? It's about a half mile walk.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

This. I agree jerry cans on deck are an eyesore, inconvenient, and everything other criticism made. But sometimes fuel capacity needs to be temporarily expanded for a delivery, when otherwise not needed. I've done that, also cribbed and lashed a 90 gal tank onto the cockpit sole of a powerboat, and lashed a couple 55 gal drums on the foredeck of a CSY to deliver to islands (it's motorsailing upwind most of the way). Do what ya gotta do for a temporary solution. The permanent solution is adding extra proper tankage, of course. 

We carry 4 x yellow (diesel), 2 x gas (red), and 2 x water jugs (blue).

Diesel in my mind is NOT for motoring. At rated cruising RPM my main engine can consume up to 10L/hour. So 20 gallons of diesel will give me about eight hours of motoring, or about 60-70 miles, max. Pretty useless on a long trip.

However, 20 gallons of diesel will also give me about 30-40 hours of genset time +/-. And THAT is enough to keep the boat systems running for a couple of weeks of sailing. So I can keep going with lights, furlers, instruments, autopilots, refrigeration etc. to cover a couple of thousand more miles under sail.

The red cans are our working dinghy fuel. We live on the boat, we use the dinghy every day. So that's our working reserve. Depending on where we are relative to town, one jerry can typically lasts between one and two weeks.

The water is there for emergency. In case something bad happens to the tanks. Or in case we have to ditch it's 10 more gallons I can cut loose and toss in the life raft.'

We also learned a lesson on the Mayday incident we had back in 2012 about having tanks that were easy to disconnect to give away in case others need help.

 

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9 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Will has put his design out there and I have offered my opinion.

If you want to reinvent the wheel with a design concept be prepared to listen to other opinions or your career will be pretty short.

That hull will ride on its chine and heeled to weather imagine trying to journey forward clambering over the aircraft carrier coach roof.

Vertigo comes to mind along with the opportunity to get clocked by that boom.

I am not raining on the young fellas parade just calling it as I see.

 

 

 

It's not my career, it's my kid's. But I've seen the analysis on the hull numbers, you have not. I've seen the report and the 100 page study behind that rendering; you never will. He didn't put the "design" out there, he put a render. There are no hull lines or numbers.

I think you are rude, to make comments with the tone you have. And I think you are misinformed. I know nothing about you, for all I know you are a professional yacht designer. I am not, so I'm not prepared to argue head to head.

But I do know the professionals that reviewed Will's work did not share your scorn for it. In fact his work has been quite well received. There is nothing to suggest the hull will "ride on it's chine", suggesting it will without more data is asinine. The hull is shaped that way for a reason, it's not done to make it unstable.

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7 minutes ago, savoir said:

Did you try buying diesel in Luganville ? It's about a half mile walk.

No, but we've refueled the boat by jerry can before.

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Crikey take a chill pill.

I too have kids and each one is making Einstein and Marie Curie look like beginners just like yours I suppose.

22 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

It's not my career, it's my kid's. But I've seen the analysis on the hull numbers, you have not. I've seen the report and the 100 page study behind that rendering; you never will. He didn't put the "design" out there, he put a render. There are no hull lines or numbers.

I think you are rude, to make comments with the tone you have. And I think you are misinformed. I know nothing about you, for all I know you are a professional yacht designer. I am not, so I'm not prepared to argue head to head.

But I do know the professionals that reviewed Will's work did not share your scorn for it. In fact his work has been quite well received. There is nothing to suggest the hull will "ride on it's chine", suggesting it will without more data is asinine. The hull is shaped that way for a reason, it's not done to make it unstable.

 

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

That's a pretty broad and useless generalization as it pays no attention to the reality of the situation.

I've got about an 800 nm range under power. My choices when I'm sailing more than a few hundred miles are very different than when making coastal jaunts.

That was in response to those who need to stack jerry cans on deck. If you need that much fuel to motorsail upwind, it is not to go across the bay or even the English channel presumably if you need that much fuel you intend to cover big distances against the wind under power.  Most decent sailboat will cover the distance under sail better especially as on a journey that last more than 12 hours the chances are that there will be windshifts that will help you.

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2 hours ago, Panoramix said:

That was in response to those who need to stack jerry cans on deck. If you need that much fuel to motorsail upwind, it is not to go across the bay or even the English channel presumably if you need that much fuel you intend to cover big distances against the wind under power.  Most decent sailboat will cover the distance under sail better especially as on a journey that last more than 12 hours the chances are that there will be windshifts that will help you.

Agreed. Most of the advocates of jerry cans I know are long distance cruisers, not coastals.

Carrying cans coastally is unecessary and an assault on aesthetics.

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4 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Unless it is a very bad boat it is quicker to sail upwind than motorsail.

A CSY is a clam-crusher that barely sails at all, let alone upwind. And my experience, based on thousands of miles of deliveries, is that if you're trying to make decent time, short handed, then using  motorsailing upwind when appropriate is the least demanding on crew and easiest on boat and gear. While owners pay by the day, they don't appreciate fucking around.

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7 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Agreed. Most of the advocates of jerry cans I know are long distance cruisers, not coastals.

Carrying cans coastally is unecessary and an assault on aesthetics.

If you go to places like Madagascar, yes but going round the Atlantic is long distance cruising and you don't need cans as long as your boat sails well.

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8 hours ago, RKoch said:

A CSY is a clam-crusher that barely sails at all, let alone upwind. And my experience, based on thousands of miles of deliveries, is that if you're trying to make decent time, short handed, then using  motorsailing upwind when appropriate is the least demanding on crew and easiest on boat and gear. While owners pay by the day, they don't appreciate fucking around.

I like the challenge of making a CSY, MacGregor, Sun Cat, or something similarly lame in performance go upwind, and have done so on all of them. For fun, not if I really have to get somewhere.

 

15 hours ago, savoir said:

The people who criticize jerry cans on deck tend to be people who have never sailed in a place where the nearest diesel is 500 miles away and even then you have to hike to a gas station.

I've done that once, minus the hike. But I've tripped over friggin' cans on the rail in the Bahamas and in a marina in Miami, where I probably could have thrown the damn things to the fuel dock. They do have to live somewhere when you get back from the Bahamas. Preferably somewhere out of the sun, out of the way, and not in any way vented to the cabin. So, again, Hooray for Will!

I've never carried diesel on the rail, just outboard fuel and water. If you have a fast dink and like the out islands, there's really no such thing as enough outboard fuel.

It's fair to say my boating experience is a mile wide and an inch deep compared to most people I know. I think it's because, while my kayaking friends were kayaking, I was fishing, diving, water skiing, Jet skiing, or sailing. Still extensive enough to hate cans on the rail.

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11 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

We carry 4 x yellow (diesel), 2 x gas (red), and 2 x water jugs (blue).

Helpful tip picked up from Sol during last year's hurricane seaons:

They're all the same plastic. Those colors are decoration and to make it easy to tell which one you're grabbing. But the BLUE ones still have a spout and a vent and no mysterious pour-prevention mechanism in the spout. You can actually access the fuel!

I have a bunch of leftover old cans with spout and vent and was wondering what I would do as they aged out. I can't use those new things. Meaning, after getting better light and my glasses and studying the instructions and fucking with the thing for 20 minutes, I absolutely could not extract fuel from my brand new fuel can.

I've invested in red and yellow duct tape to preserve the old color coding but will only buy blue gasoline cans, blue diesel cans, and blue water cans.

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Helpful tip picked up from Sol during last year's hurricane seaons:

They're all the same plastic. Those colors are decoration and to make it easy to tell which one you're grabbing. But the BLUE ones still have a spout and a vent and no mysterious pour-prevention mechanism in the spout. You can actually access the fuel!

I have a bunch of leftover old cans with spout and vent and was wondering what I would do as they aged out. I can't use those new things. Meaning, after getting better light and my glasses and studying the instructions and fucking with the thing for 20 minutes, I absolutely could not extract fuel from my brand new fuel can.

I've invested in red and yellow duct tape to preserve the old color coding but will only buy blue gasoline cans, blue diesel cans, and blue water cans.

Pourability isn't much of an issue if you buy your cans outside the US.

I'd rather not accidentally chuck five gallons of diesel in the liferaft during a ditching....or put water one of my engines because I'm rushing.

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6 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Pourability isn't much of an issue if you buy your cans outside the US.

I'd rather not accidentally chuck five gallons of diesel in the liferaft during a ditching....or put water one of my engines because I'm rushing.

Diesel in your water sucks but can be the result of simple inattention. It can happen to the best of us. It did happen to a friend when he was working as captain of two different boats. He mostly worked the fishing boat and his boss' buddy drove the go-fast cruiser, but he wound up working the go-fast boat one weekend and put a shitload of diesel into a water tank. Yes, of course they were clearly marked. He doesn't fuck up much but it generally makes a good story when he does.

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On 8/3/2018 at 1:12 PM, Panoramix said:

Unless it is a very bad boat it is quicker to sail upwind than motorsail.

That is utter nonsense.

Here are the polars for a Farr 40. http://www.blur.se/polar/farr40_performance_prediction.pdf

Look at page 5, about halfway down the page look for the lines under the column marked 12 (for 12 knots of wind)   

Up.Vs (kts)  7.05

Up.VMG (kts)   5.46

In 12 knots of wind a Farr 40, a fast racing sailboat will do about 7 knots sailing to windward and her VMG is 5.46 knots directly upwind.

And  you are saying the Farr 40 will motor at less than 5.46 knots directly into 12 knots of wind?

Heck with a bigger engine than standard (27 HP) it will certainly motor at 7 knots directly into the wind.

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There are many, many places in the world where there is no fuel dock, and you have to buy it in jugs to get it to the boat. 

We did keep our jugs in deck lockers and carried about 30 gallons of diesel and 10 of gasoline. But our fuel tank was only 27 gallons. Kind of makes a good argument that world cruisers should have a reasonable sized tank and lots of diesel in jugs. Because it sucks to have to make multiple trips to fill the tank, even borrowing other jugs. One trip would fill our tank, and a second trip would fill the jugs.

We always seemed to arrive with 20 - 30 gallons of fuel except after the calmest of passage where we had to motor through glass calm conditions for 2 or 3 days.

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