LI_sailor

Sun Fast 3600

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So this boat came out and people seemed pretty fired up about it.

Now I am seeing a bunch of them for sale around the globe.  Any thoughts on the boat and did it fail its promise?

It looks pretty fun and interesting; so I guess I am missing something ?

thanks!

 

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The boat is fantastic, we collected one this year and are campaigning it at the moment. In the UK and Northern Europe there are good numbers of them racing and we regularly see 6 UK boats racing. We have gone as light as possible on our spec and I strongly advise it, the boat comes alive in the lighter airs and planes earlier downwind. On top of the performance the build quality and design is first class.

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What was your view of that versus the JPK 1080?

I agree it a sexy looking boat; and the IRC rating seems pretty achievable.  Obviously its something I am looking into right now ....

 

 

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It depends on what what handicap system you race under, I can only speak for IRC but I know that a pogo 36 wouldn’t be competitive. The 3600s and 1080s are very evenly matched, the general consensus is that the 1080 is subtly faster in all round conditions but the 3600 is easier to sail and extract performance from. The 1080 has also benefitted from some high profile sailors to campaign them (mainly Courrier Leon and Adam Gosling’s Yes!) which has thrown up some very good results. With our 3600 we were up to speed very quickly with good backup from the dealer network here and it’s worth noting that JPK don’t have a dealer network and you deal with them directly and that their yard only builds 20 boats per year whereas Jeanneau are truly mass production. I’m not sure on the JPK standard spec but with the 3600 you get a symmetrical layout with twin cabins aft and heads/wet area forwards, watertight bulkhead forward of the rudders and also a watertight crash bulkhead at the bow, the forward sea cocks are also behind watertight hatches. 

Sunfast 3600 specs vary massively, at one end you have some boats weighing in at 5200kg with a L shaped keel assymetric kites and aluminium mast and carrying extra lead batteries. Ours is the other end of the spectrum weighing under 4900kg with a straight lead fin keel, symmetric kites, carbon rig and lithium ion battery fuel cell combo. 

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So I am looking at it pretty seriously; it seems to tick all of the boxes for me.  If I could beg your indulgence for a few more:

1. Which other boats do you typically race against; how do you do in general.  What are your thoughts on the IRC rating in different conditions.

2. What crew size do you typically use?

3. Do you use both spin + bowsprit; or just one?  I ask because finding experienced bowman seems to get harder each year; so I wanted to lean only for a bowsprit type of boat to make it easier.

4. Do you mostly race around the cans or long distance.  Do you find she works better in one versus the other?

5. What breeze do you typically sail in?  Do you find she is better in more or less breeze?  I ask because where I sail; we have good breeze in the fall and spring ..... and summer is very low breeze.

6. How much FUN have you had sailing her?  I ask, because around here the J boats are everywhere because they do well under IRC.  But a lightweight boat that planes seems like a LOT of fun.  And versus the Pogo 12.50 or 36; the IRC rating seems like she is competitive.

I guess that is it for now; thanks!

 

 

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1. We race against the usual RORC fleet in irc2 first 40.7s, first 40s, jpk 1080. Currently we feel the boat has huge potential, the only thing letting us down is our own nav! We come out at 1.056 which is the highest rated 3600 in the UK but like I said we went with a light boat. We did some brief round the cans racing and we beat some experienced teams racing J109s and a well set up J35 and also first 35s.

2. We are doing an offshore based campaign double handed. The boat has huge stability that you don’t need a big crew. Even inshore I wouldn’t race with more than 6/7. 

3. In our fleet there is an even split between sym and asym. We have in our inventory an S2, A3, A0 and S3(redundency sail if we bust the others) we use the standard slightly over length pole with the stock bowsprit. We pushed our kite size to give us power downwind and the spinnaker choice is personal. No distinct advantage to any boat here. Dead running the sym is better otherwise there’s no disadvantage to the asym setup.

4. 80% offshore 20% inshore, next year we may look at more inshore as we were surprised to win our first ever inshore race in this boat against a competitive fleet.

5. Typically a wide chined hull should be sticky In light airs and our can be (sub 6 kts). So far this year we have had really light airs and the boat has still been competitive. In more breeze the boat is still competitive. It‘s worth noting that some of the heavier spec boats are slower in the light airs. Try to keep the boat under 5000kg on measured weight. We are sub 4900

6. We are in the privileged position that we campaign both a J88 inshore and the 3600 offshore and it’s 2 different kinds of fun. If you want a dinghy like boat then the J is best but we have loved sailing the 3600, you can take satisfaction in how capable it is and believed me we have tried taking the 88 offshore and after a while you get tired of the boat falling over all the time and getting nicked back by even moderate waves but the sunfast just takes everything as it comes. Budget is another story here. A carbon rig boat with all the toys will be expensive but a good compromise would be an asym boat, alloy mast, fin keel and a lightweight battery setup. We looked at everything we need on the boat and assessed if it could be made lighter or more effective. Clutches are constrictors, liferaft is lightweight (but meets iso etc.), carbon boom (a bit of an indulgence), replaced 2 lead batteries with a single Li ion battery, removed the black water tank, removed the shower, removed the fridge motor, replaced the stainless boarding ladder with a small one fitted into the transom. We have installed a fuel cell by EFOY which takes care of all our power needs and also installed a heater to make things more comfortable offshore. And finally don’t be afraid to push sail sizes up, especially downwind, the boat responds well to power in the lighter airs. 

Tomorrow morning we are racing in the (very light forecasted) RORC Cowes - St Malo Race so i’ll report back in a few days!

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assume like most, that you went for the twin tiller option?

do they clutter up the cockpit as much as they appear to?

Single tiller on the JPK 1080 has always looked more appealing to me. 

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I would normally choose a single tiller as well but the sunfast cockpit is designed around twin tillers so it works. It would be nice to steer with legs and play kite sheets in a gybe but it’s also nice to steer holding a tiller rather than a tiller extension that has play in it. 

Our St Malo Race started well with us leading the fleet of irc boats and class 40s for the first 30 miles of the race until the wind shut down. We showed moments of brilliant speed but were ultimately inconsistent. I was also surprised how were were able to keep up with and pull away from the much slipperier J112 in sub 8kt conditions upwind and downwind. Next stop for us is the Sevenstar round Britain and Ireland race next month!

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One trick pony. If only the wind was always at 110...

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

One trick pony. If only the wind was always at 110...

A Pogo maybe but I beg to differ on the 3600. Our very first race day was windward leeward racing in 10kts of wind. The competition was a heavily optimised, a very well sailed Corby 33, a couple of Prima 38s, a First 35 and HOD 35. We were short crewed and managed a second and two bullets having only just a set foot on the boat

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I think the Pogo designs are much more fun and I would love to buy the 12.50.  But the reality is they get destroyed in IRC ratings, hence I would agree that they are the one trick pony.

What I find fascinating about the 3600 is that it appears to have a good rating. So you get a modern race boat with potential to plane and also a good blue water boat ..... but at the same time you can still race around the cans and win.  

 

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Are you in the market for new or second hand? 

It’s worth noting that from the factory the hull finish under the water isn’t the best and it would be worth setting some money/time aside to iron out some of the creases. 

It sounds like you would be interested in an asymmetric rigged boat. As a spec for club racing I would pick the irc lead fin keel, alloy rig, lightly faired hull and apply A4 t speed. H5000 pilot, go big on kites (maybe 140-150sqm for asymmetric) and spec it as light as possible and get you sailmaker to experiment with jib sizes to tweak the rating to how you want it.

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On 7/17/2018 at 6:14 PM, JL92S said:

A Pogo maybe but I beg to differ on the 3600. Our very first race day was windward leeward racing in 10kts of wind. The competition was a heavily optimised, a very well sailed Corby 33, a couple of Prima 38s, a First 35 and HOD 35. We were short crewed and managed a second and two bullets having only just a set foot on the boat

Well in a local offshore race here last year we on the Pogo were gybing back and forward all day with a very well sailed 3600in 5-10 knots dead square. We were at the back of the fleet. Also I have sailed on a mates 36 in a club race. One trick pony but clearly not in the hands of a superstar like you. Maybe having 600k less of crew weight may have helped?

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9 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Well in a local offshore race here last year we on the Pogo were gybing back and forward all day with a very well sailed 3600in 5-10 knots dead square. We were at the back of the fleet. Also I have sailed on a mates 36 in a club race. One trick pony but clearly not in the hands of a superstar like you. Maybe having 600k less of crew weight may have helped?

Suggest you read up on the SunFast 3600s results in Europe across a wide variety of conditions over the last couple of years. And that's with mere mortals sailing them. 

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17 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Well in a local offshore race here last year we on the Pogo were gybing back and forward all day with a very well sailed 3600in 5-10 knots dead square. We were at the back of the fleet. Also I have sailed on a mates 36 in a club race. One trick pony but clearly not in the hands of a superstar like you. Maybe having 600k less of crew weight may have helped?

If a 3600 was near a pogo 12.50 on the course then that hardly flatters your own sailing skills. And besides the windward leeward racing we had was with a crew and there’s definitely no rockstars here, just keen amateurs. I’ll concede a heavy boat can have dog days. A light boat with less ‘crap’ onboard will outsail it’s rating. Check out some of BooBooNZ’s videos on YouTube.

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5 hours ago, JL92S said:

If a 3600 was near a pogo 12.50 on the course then that hardly flatters your own sailing skills. And besides the windward leeward racing we had was with a crew and there’s definitely no rockstars here, just keen amateurs. I’ll concede a heavy boat can have dog days. A light boat with less ‘crap’ onboard will outsail it’s rating. Check out some of BooBooNZ’s videos on YouTube.

I think this only shows your ignorance of Pogos. Have you sailed one? Against one? Of course this being the internet you can claim you have. Like your claim that a few of you jumped on board for the first time and beat up a bunch of well sailed fully crewed boats. But you keep learning how to sail on you tube. 

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LB 15 - I was asking for help and advice on this boat, and you have been less helpful and attacking someone who IS being helpful.  And, even worse, sounding like an idiot in the process.  Heaven forbid we use some logic here:

IRC rating compare:   http://www.rolexfastnetrace.com/results/2017/rfr-irc-overall02.html

Pogo 12.50: 1.155 & 1.165

Sun fast 3600: 1.039 & 1.048 & 1.047

Now, I dont have a PhD in math or statistics. But the IRC ratings are pretty conclusive that the 12.50 is FASTER than a 3600.  Now, I agree that ratings suck.

So lets use some more math:

Pogo: 12.50: 40 feet; 12,125 pounds; upwind sail area: 1,152 sq feet; downwind sail area: 2,347 sq feet

Sun Fast 3600: 36 feet; 10,913 pounds; upwind sail area: 751; downwind sail area: 1,473 feet.

So you get nearly 40% more sail area per displacement pound.  So hm .... do you really think the pogo isnt that much faster than the sun fast 3600? 

So anyways, JL92S .... I would love to hear more stories and examples of the sun fast 3600.  Who you can typically beat on both inshore racing and offshore .... and who can give you challenges.  I have very much appreciated all of the things you have said so far .... thank you!

 

 

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On 7/19/2018 at 11:21 PM, LB 15 said:

I think this only shows your ignorance of Pogos. Have you sailed one? Against one? Of course this being the internet you can claim you have. Like your claim that a few of you jumped on board for the first time and beat up a bunch of well sailed fully crewed boats. But you keep learning how to sail on you tube. 

I tend to state the facts where possible, unlike you who confuses your own opinion with fact. I have raced against a pogo 30 here and to be honest I wasn’t that impressed. Upwind it stank and downwind it sailed wild angles and not a great speed. The owner had it for 2 seasons and got rid of it. You should try watching YouTube some time, it might make you a better sailor

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8 hours ago, LI_sailor said:

LB 15 - I was asking for help and advice on this boat, and you have been less helpful and attacking someone who IS being helpful.  And, even worse, sounding like an idiot in the process.  Heaven forbid we use some logic here:

IRC rating compare:   http://www.rolexfastnetrace.com/results/2017/rfr-irc-overall02.html

Pogo 12.50: 1.155 & 1.165

Sun fast 3600: 1.039 & 1.048 & 1.047

Now, I dont have a PhD in math or statistics. But the IRC ratings are pretty conclusive that the 12.50 is FASTER than a 3600.  Now, I agree that ratings suck.

So lets use some more math:

Pogo: 12.50: 40 feet; 12,125 pounds; upwind sail area: 1,152 sq feet; downwind sail area: 2,347 sq feet

Sun Fast 3600: 36 feet; 10,913 pounds; upwind sail area: 751; downwind sail area: 1,473 feet.

So you get nearly 40% more sail area per displacement pound.  So hm .... do you really think the pogo isnt that much faster than the sun fast 3600? 

So anyways, JL92S .... I would love to hear more stories and examples of the sun fast 3600.  Who you can typically beat on both inshore racing and offshore .... and who can give you challenges.  I have very much appreciated all of the things you have said so far .... thank you!

 

 

I would suggest that by using IRC ratings as the sole indicator of a boats performance shows how much you know. If you actually read what I was saying before you shot your load I pointed out that in 5 knots dead square they both suck. But they don't suck as well as you do.

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51 minutes ago, JL92S said:

I tend to state the facts where possible, unlike you who confuses your own opinion with fact. I have raced against a pogo 30 here and to be honest I wasn’t that impressed. Upwind it stank and downwind it sailed wild angles and not a great speed. The owner had it for 2 seasons and got rid of it. You should try watching YouTube some time, it might make you a better sailor

So you have never sailed on a Pogo 12.50, yet because you have sailed against 1 Pogo 30 you know all about them? I see. What were you saying about facts again? You keep learning to sail on you tube cupcake. Interestingly I was on the drink with 2 3600 owners who have just done the Melbourne Osaka. One was 2nd on IRC and yet one agreed that a boat with better light air performance would be better for that race. Hopefully they will post this on youtube and then it will become a fact. If you need a break from beating off on the La Vagabond's channel you could do a search.

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LB, you come across and as such a pompous dickhead sometimes,  tell me is it true that you sail on australia's one and only pogo 12.5 that is not yours and make yourself out to be some kind of legend while squirting jizz down your leg everytime you get a chance to mention it?

JL92 is giving his/her honest impression of a boat that is campaigned with enthusiasm,  unlike you who has forgotten what its like to  actually be into something because all your living was way back whenever and now youre reduced to camping out on bullshit stories and petty sarcasm that only a dry old fuck like yourself finds amusing.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, LI_sailor said:

IRC rating compare:   http://www.rolexfastnetrace.com/results/2017/rfr-irc-overall02.html

Pogo 12.50: 1.155 & 1.165

Sun fast 3600: 1.039 & 1.048 & 1.047

Now, I dont have a PhD in math or statistics. But the IRC ratings are pretty conclusive that the 12.50 is FASTER than a 3600.  Now, I agree that ratings suck.

I think that what the IRC ratings are really saying, is that the maths and calculations expect that the 12.50 SHOULD be faster, but it's pretty clear that IRC and all other rating systems are flawed. 

46 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

I would suggest that by using IRC ratings as the sole indicator of a boats performance shows how much you know. If you actually read what I was saying before you shot your load I pointed out that in 5 knots dead square they both suck. But they don't suck as well as you do.

To some extent PHS is the most accurate rating system, but it only works within a closed fleet environment and of course a gun crew can make a shit boat look impressive, so PHS does not help you to buy a fast boat.

On 7/19/2018 at 8:43 AM, LB 15 said:

Well in a local offshore race here last year we on the Pogo were gybing back and forward all day with a very well sailed 3600in 5-10 knots dead square. We were at the back of the fleet. Also I have sailed on a mates 36 in a club race. One trick pony but clearly not in the hands of a superstar like you. Maybe having 600k less of crew weight may have helped?

What you say does not make the Pogo look good. Another one trick pony? ;)

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I do love the bitch fights in this place :)

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So if we conclude what our useful LB15 is saying its that ....  hell; he contradicts himself I have no idea. Basically that the 3600 sucks because it cant beat a faster / bigger boat the 12.50.  

May I politely suggest you go and fuck off.   This was a lovely thread talking about a boat; its positives and negatives, before he brought his cunt attitude into it. I would ask to see his wife's tits, but I dont like it when you can draw a straight line between the nipples and get the naval.

Next he will suggest the boat sucks because it cant beat Comanche over the line in the Hobart race.

So back to topic; JL -- how do you feel she handles in the light breeze?  Can she sail to her rating?

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About the 3600 setup-JL 92S or others who have raced this boat-I am ordering a 3600 for the US with the twin tiller setup.  I have heard that the extra set of winches used with the German sheeting system get in the way when using the tillers (are right where you need to sit).  I don't like the German sheeting-I did a few races on a 3600 with this system, but would you recommend ordering he extra winches or not?   I always like the idea of backup winches, but they are heavy, and if they get in the way they are not worth it.  Flexofold prop seems better than the pricier Gori.  It also seems that the halyard bag option is pretty pricey for $600 as well as lee clothes for $1300 (I will need lee clothes but have rigged them up on past boats for < 500)  Also, anything else you think are "must have" options?

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Just had a good look at one out of the water this morning.

Very disappointing.

And I can't understand the price for what is a very average production boat build.

Sorry it is what it is!

You would be getting your own build team to pull it apart and reassemble.

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4 hours ago, hoppy said:

I do love the bitch fights in this place :)

Me too. I love this place.

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4 hours ago, hoppy said:

What you say does not make the Pogo look good. Another one trick pony? ;)

Yep but it's a fucking great trick...

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2 hours ago, LI_sailor said:

May I politely suggest you go and fuck off.   

It would appear not. But don't beat yourself up over it. You suck at everything you try. This is SA princess. If you don't like the answer then don't ask the question.

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5 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

LB, you come across and as such a pompous dickhead sometimes

Only sometimes? I am slipping then. But then again getting a rise out of a softcock like you isn't that difficult. 

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1 hour ago, lydia said:

Just had a good look at one out of the water this morning.

Very disappointing.

And I can't understand the price for what is a very average production boat build.

Sorry it is what it is!

You would be getting your own build team to pull it apart and reassemble.

Carefully mate. Some of the girls posting here don't want to hear the truth.

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54 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Carefully mate. Some of the girls posting here don't want to hear the truth.

On that note, mpbeagle cancel your order and buy something else.

Don't say you were not warned.

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3 hours ago, mpbeagle said:

About the 3600 setup-JL 92S or others who have raced this boat-I am ordering a 3600 for the US with the twin tiller setup.  I have heard that the extra set of winches used with the German sheeting system get in the way when using the tillers (are right where you need to sit).  I don't like the German sheeting-I did a few races on a 3600 with this system, but would you recommend ordering he extra winches or not?   I always like the idea of backup winches, but they are heavy, and if they get in the way they are not worth it.  Flexofold prop seems better than the pricier Gori.  It also seems that the halyard bag option is pretty pricey for $600 as well as lee clothes for $1300 (I will need lee clothes but have rigged them up on past boats for < 500)  Also, anything else you think are "must have" options?

Probably does well in a breeze against other IRC fat bastards...but for racing in North America, especially in any light air region, she will likely suffer given her numbers.

SA/D of 25.6 is on the low side, especially for a frac rig with twin rudders.  While trendy, twin rudders add a lot of extra wetted surface.  It seems that quite a few Quest 30s in NA  have been converted to single rudder, and they have a similar SA/D of 24.6

As for planing, a D/L of 150 is pretty high for any boat with aspirations of planing.  But it depends on what you call planing.  Some seem to believe that when a boat exceeds "hull speed", then it is planing. 

My old 27 had a D/L of 150 and we hit 14 kts one time, but I didn't consider that planing, we were just surfing IMO.

The Moore 24 below - now that meets my definition of planing:   Although ironically the video is titled "Surfing a Moore 24"

 

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7 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Yep but it's a fucking great trick...

Which one? The mainsheet destroying the wheel trick (lucky shaggy has a backup on the other side) or the boom self destruction trick.. ;)

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Definitely a relationship between power, lightness, and the likelihood of breaking stuff.

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12 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Carefully mate. Some of the girls posting here don't want to hear the truth.

I never said the hulls were great out the factory, if you read one of my previous notes you would have seen that. I think we should stop feeding the troll now

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Depending on where you race will depend on whether the 3600 is right for you. If you race in a venue where the breeze is mostly under 10kts and you race with a full crew then there are probably better boats out there, a J112 would be better suited for this. If like us you race mostly short handed both inshore and offshore in a variety of wind strengths then the 3600 is a great all round boat. There will be boats that are faster in the light airs and there will be boats that are faster in a heavy downwind blow but these boats do the all round pretty well if you get the base boat right.

To answer your question LI_sailor we find our boat can sail to it’s rating (1.056) in light airs upwind. We have big sails and weigh in at around 4850kg. Downwind in sub 8kts we can manage but an asymmetric rigged boat would be better here (also we lack an A1 or A1.5 kite which would help) 

mpbeagle congratulations on your order, we also couldn’t understand the need for the German mainsheet setup on the 3600 unless you were buying it to cruise however there is a Swedish boat that sails with a large square top main with twin back stays, if you ever planned something like that then the extra winches would make sense but we haven’t had a situation yet where we have felt we have needed extra winches. 

It seems that a few people don’t understand irc all that well and therefore don’t understand the concept of the 3600. It is not and never was designed to be an out and out downwind flying machine designed to trouble an Elliott 35, if you want that then buy a Figaro 3 or Class 40... Instead it’s a boat designed to fit within the Transquadra rating limits (1.050) that performs well in a wide range of conditions you get in Northern Europe and be an easy boat to push hard. Downwind it behaves well and will happily sit on the autopilot for days on end crunching miles but at the same time it wouldn’t be fazed by a long upwind slog.

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2 hours ago, JL92S said:

It seems that a few people don’t understand irc all that well and therefore don’t understand the concept of the 3600. 

Of all the stupid things posted on this site over the past 10 years this has to be up there with the best. Tell us some more about your 'big sails' ...

 

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you know fuck all,

http://ssanz.co.nz/results.html?id=119

Sailed: 4, Discards: 0, To count: 4, Rating system: IRC, Entries: 3, Scoring system: Appendix A
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Leg1 Leg2 Leg3 Leg4 Total Nett Design
1st IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 1.0 1.0 2.0 2.0 6.0 6.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
1st IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 2.0 2.0 1.0 1.0 6.0 6.0 RP52
3rd IRC Blink K110011 1.362 3.0 3.0 3.0 3.0 12.0 12.0 Shaw 12

Leg1

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 2017-2-25 14:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 1:3:09:16 1:6:19:53 1.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
2 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 23:51:01 1:8:29:03 2.0 RP52
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 23:58:51 1:8:39:43 3.0 Shaw 12

Leg2

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 27/02/17@18:00:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 3:11:52:30 3:21:41:18 1.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
2 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 2:23:03:45 4:0:47:14 2.0 RP52
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 3:1:47:36 4:4:30:23 3.0 Shaw 12

Leg3

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 5/03/17@18:30:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 1:4:18:32 1:14:33:24 1.0 RP52
2 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 1:10:54:43 1:14:59:48 2.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 1:13:52:31 2:3:35:10 3.0 Shaw 12

Leg4

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 9/03/17@15:50:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 1:19:33:58 2:11:20:13 1.0 RP52
2 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 2:7:46:14 2:14:17:45 2.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 2:3:52:41 2:22:39:28 3.0 Shaw 12

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You are on this site and say people here don't understand IRC!

You are clearly new.

Faaarck half the Rating Office post here as well as about a dozen measurers.

And then there is Hugh Welborne, Mark Mills etc

Actually you should make friends with Hugh, you are going to need his help to keep the keel on your boat for the long term.

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15 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

you know fuck all,

http://ssanz.co.nz/results.html?id=119

Sailed: 4, Discards: 0, To count: 4, Rating system: IRC, Entries: 3, Scoring system: Appendix A
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Leg1 Leg2 Leg3 Leg4 Total Nett Design
1st IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 1.0 1.0 2.0 2.0 6.0 6.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
1st IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 2.0 2.0 1.0 1.0 6.0 6.0 RP52
3rd IRC Blink K110011 1.362 3.0 3.0 3.0 3.0 12.0 12.0 Shaw 12

Leg1

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 2017-2-25 14:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 1:3:09:16 1:6:19:53 1.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
2 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 23:51:01 1:8:29:03 2.0 RP52
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 23:58:51 1:8:39:43 3.0 Shaw 12

Leg2

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 27/02/17@18:00:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 3:11:52:30 3:21:41:18 1.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
2 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 2:23:03:45 4:0:47:14 2.0 RP52
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 3:1:47:36 4:4:30:23 3.0 Shaw 12

Leg3

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 5/03/17@18:30:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 1:4:18:32 1:14:33:24 1.0 RP52
2 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 1:10:54:43 1:14:59:48 2.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 1:13:52:31 2:3:35:10 3.0 Shaw 12

Leg4

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 9/03/17@15:50:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 1:19:33:58 2:11:20:13 1.0 RP52
2 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 2:7:46:14 2:14:17:45 2.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 2:3:52:41 2:22:39:28 3.0 Shaw 12

They won 3 legs of a shorthanded race with 12 entries. The definitive IRC regatta. Heavy air, short handed. One trick.

BTW Clusterfuck i do appreciate your stalking of me in every thread, but I am happily married. But if you like I can send you a photo of me so you can bop your Baloney...

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21 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

you know fuck all,

http://ssanz.co.nz/results.html?id=119

Sailed: 4, Discards: 0, To count: 4, Rating system: IRC, Entries: 3, Scoring system: Appendix A
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Leg1 Leg2 Leg3 Leg4 Total Nett Design
1st IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 1.0 1.0 2.0 2.0 6.0 6.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
1st IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 2.0 2.0 1.0 1.0 6.0 6.0 RP52
3rd IRC Blink K110011 1.362 3.0 3.0 3.0 3.0 12.0 12.0 Shaw 12

Leg1

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 2017-2-25 14:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 1:3:09:16 1:6:19:53 1.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
2 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 23:51:01 1:8:29:03 2.0 RP52
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 23:58:51 1:8:39:43 3.0 Shaw 12

Leg2

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 27/02/17@18:00:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 3:11:52:30 3:21:41:18 1.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
2 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 2:23:03:45 4:0:47:14 2.0 RP52
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 3:1:47:36 4:4:30:23 3.0 Shaw 12

Leg3

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 5/03/17@18:30:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 1:4:18:32 1:14:33:24 1.0 RP52
2 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 1:10:54:43 1:14:59:48 2.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 1:13:52:31 2:3:35:10 3.0 Shaw 12

Leg4

Start: IRC, Finishes: Elapsed time, Time: 9/03/17@15:50:00
Rank Division Yacht Sail Number IRC Elapsed Corrected Points Design
1 IRC Miss Scarlet K11000 1.362 1:19:33:58 2:11:20:13 1.0 RP52
2 IRC Sun Fast 3600 Racing K36000 1.117 2:7:46:14 2:14:17:45 2.0 Jeanneau Sun Fast 3600
3 IRC Blink K110011 1.362 2:3:52:41 2:22:39:28 3.0 Shaw 12

You should note that these results are for shorthanded races. The fully crewed race results are less impressive.

The SF3600 at 4950kg is quite heavy for a 36ft racer and was primarily designed as a short handed racer. Fully crewed the boats weight will penalise the performance whilst short handed it will be an advantage.

 

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10 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

They won 3 legs of a shorthanded race with 12 entries. The definitive IRC regatta. Heavy air, short handed. One trick.

BTW Clusterfuck i do appreciate your stalking of me in every thread, but I am happily married. But if you like I can send you a photo of me so you can bop your Baloney...

26 Entries actually. And 1 of those 4 legs was a drifter, and only the last one really windy.  But as only 3(?) IRC entries, hardly a means much.

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One trick pony? Using your inane standards all boats are one trick ponies except of course for the light wind flyer that sends it in a breeze, goes upwind like a TP52, owns inshore buoy racing and cleans up the Sydney Hobart. Are you on drugs?

Stalking? thats a weak effort, I expected more you're definitely slipping on the wit department but anytime you need relief I am sure you know the local beat

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19 minutes ago, hoppy said:

You should note that these results are for shorthanded races. The fully crewed race results are less impressive.

The SF3600 at 4950kg is quite heavy for a 36ft racer and was primarily designed as a short handed racer. Fully crewed the boats weight will penalise the performance whilst short handed it will be an advantage.

 

It went well shorthanded, and to be fair it has not taken off here. I think there is only one in NZ, I havent seen it figure in the crewed results so perhaps it real strength in shorthanded coastal racing. It's cheap compared to an Elliot 35 or Anarchy the Bakewell-White 37,  but they are out and out race boats whereas the Sunfast can cruise very comfortably. Its probably closer to an Elan E4 than a serious racer

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7 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

It went well shorthanded, and to be fair it has not taken off here. I think there is only one in NZ, I havent seen it figure in the crewed results so perhaps it real strength in shorthanded coastal racing. It's cheap compared to an Elliot 35 or Anarchy the Bakewell-White 37,  but they are out and out race boats whereas the Sunfast can cruise very comfortably. Its probably closer to an Elan E4 than a serious racer

Its way quicker than an E4. I have a E1050, we are pretty close in speed to the sunfast, They are prob quicker uphill, especially as wind builds.  the 1050 is quicker downhill, prob due to bigger kites. reaching I'd say the sunfast would have us with her wide arse.  I like the sunfast, good boat for the price point.

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Clipper that's pretty much what i was trying to say, theres an E-4' on our marina and it has the "look" wide bum twin rudders etc but definitely not as race oriented as the Sunfast. I saw the boat when the previous owner had it, boom tent, speakers, kids  and cruising crap everywhere! I was really impressed with it as a multi use boat especially after having a good look around the E35 Bushido. You are fortunate to have a 1050, they are great boats and punch well above their weight. an iconic design. A mate had the aussie charter version I think they call them eagles with a masthead rig and shorter keel. It sailed ok given it was dumbed down but an awesome cruising boat.

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54 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

One trick pony? Using your inane standards all boats are one trick ponies except of course for the light wind flyer that sends it in a breeze, goes upwind like a TP52, owns inshore buoy racing and cleans up the Sydney Hobart. Are you on drugs?

Stalking? thats a weak effort, I expected more you're definitely slipping on the wit department but anytime you need relief I am sure you know the local beat

Goes upwind like a TP52? You clearly have a better dealer than me. Now back to the results you posted. 5 podium finishes in a fleet of 3 is very impressive and makes for a sound case for the design. 

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1 hour ago, Gutterblack said:

One trick pony? Using your inane standards all boats are one trick ponies except of course for the light wind flyer that sends it in a breeze, goes upwind like a TP52, owns inshore buoy racing and cleans up the Sydney Hobart. Are you on drugs?

Stalking? thats a weak effort, I expected more you're definitely slipping on the wit department but anytime you need relief I am sure you know the local beat

Oh and what does 'the local beat' mean? Is this some kind of Kiwi expression like 'chilly bin'? 

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Pull your head in LB, you get the idea. There is no one right boat that's going to do it all especially a production model built to a price and I have no illusions that a french cruiser/racer is going to clean up everything in its class. In real life it does pretty well and its a nice boat, the results I posted dont reflect the toughness of the Round North Island race or the competition, just the IRC division that you know all about, but is so small in NZ that its virtually meaningless to club racers. PHRF is another story http://ssanz.co.nz/results.html?id=124  Ist out of 26 starters. It stomped all over the Pogo 40 Krakatoa on line too coming in 3rd to their 6th. Make of that what you will, maybe it was sailed very well (it was) but if shorthanded coastal sailing is its strong suit why complain so much?

 

 

 

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I think we just ignore the trolls here. LB likes to call everyone else here internet sailors yet he’s the one on here contributing nothing say on his arse behind a keyboard. Up there with the best SA forum Nazis

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On 7/21/2018 at 11:27 AM, JL92S said:

Depending on where you race will depend on whether the 3600 is right for you. If you race in a venue where the breeze is mostly under 10kts and you race with a full crew then there are probably better boats out there, a J112 would be better suited for this. If like us you race mostly short handed both inshore and offshore in a variety of wind strengths then the 3600 is a great all round boat. There will be boats that are faster in the light airs and there will be boats that are faster in a heavy downwind blow but these boats do the all round pretty well if you get the base boat right.

To answer your question LI_sailor we find our boat can sail to it’s rating (1.056) in light airs upwind. We have big sails and weigh in at around 4850kg. Downwind in sub 8kts we can manage but an asymmetric rigged boat would be better here (also we lack an A1 or A1.5 kite which would help) 

mpbeagle congratulations on your order, we also couldn’t understand the need for the German mainsheet setup on the 3600 unless you were buying it to cruise however there is a Swedish boat that sails with a large square top main with twin back stays, if you ever planned something like that then the extra winches would make sense but we haven’t had a situation yet where we have felt we have needed extra winches. 

It seems that a few people don’t understand irc all that well and therefore don’t understand the concept of the 3600. It is not and never was designed to be an out and out downwind flying machine designed to trouble an Elliott 35, if you want that then buy a Figaro 3 or Class 40... Instead it’s a boat designed to fit within the Transquadra rating limits (1.050) that performs well in a wide range of conditions you get in Northern Europe and be an easy boat to push hard. Downwind it behaves well and will happily sit on the autopilot for days on end crunching miles but at the same time it wouldn’t be fazed by a long upwind slog.

Jl92s Is there any other options aside from the lithium batteries and straight keel you would suggest getting on this boat?

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I think he may still be out in the South Pacific somewhere...

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11 hours ago, mpbeagle said:

Jl92s Is there any other options aside from the lithium batteries and straight keel you would suggest getting on this boat?

We have an EFOY fuel cell to go with the single 120ah service battery as we regularly race offshore. A H5000 autopilot would be a must for short handed sailing and other than that I would spend money on getting the hull and foils up to a better finish. Other than that I would take out as mush weight as possible from the inside. We removed the black water tank as we wouldn’t need it and also removed other small bits including the folding leaves from the table (irc still counts it as a table) and we saved a few kilos here. If you have the budget then you can look at a carbon rig but it’s worth bearing in mind that Axxon won’t supply the mast with a track for the mainsail, only a bolt rope groove. Basically they won’t guarantee the mast with either a track or even sliders used in the mast groove. It’s a pain in the ass but that wouldn’t stop you ordering a custom rig. Again all this is dependent on budget. 

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11 hours ago, olaf hart said:

I think he may still be out in the South Pacific somewhere...

Yep he is sailing his Bendytoy 'Rogue' back to EnZed with his wife and kids. Cool thing to do and a great experience for them all but he must be just a little bit frustrated with the performance level of his current ride compared to some of the stuff he has done in the past, SunFast 3600 included.

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On 7/23/2018 at 5:21 AM, JL92S said:

I think we just ignore the trolls here. LB likes to call everyone else here internet sailors yet he’s the one on here contributing nothing say on his arse behind a keyboard. Up there with the best SA forum Nazis

There there cupcake dry your eyes. I have contributed to this thread but you Fanboys don't like what you hear. I am an internet sailor? How's your youtube learning going knackers?

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On the Auckland Sunfast they lengthened the prodder prior to the Round North Island Race, I also understand he spent a lot of time getting the rudder alignment right. Ran A kites and S kites with a pole. Also had a strut like the Volvo65's for use with the Code Zero. The thing was a machine upwind in a breeze.

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4 hours ago, Battleship said:

On the Auckland Sunfast they lengthened the prodder prior to the Round North Island Race, I also understand he spent a lot of time getting the rudder alignment right. Ran A kites and S kites with a pole. Also had a strut like the Volvo65's for use with the Code Zero. The thing was a machine upwind in a breeze.

Do you mean a reaching strut?

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21 hours ago, JL92S said:

We have an EFOY fuel cell to go with the single 120ah service battery as we regularly race offshore. A H5000 autopilot would be a must for short handed sailing and other than that I would spend money on getting the hull and foils up to a better finish. Other than that I would take out as mush weight as possible from the inside. We removed the black water tank as we wouldn’t need it and also removed other small bits including the folding leaves from the table (irc still counts it as a table) and we saved a few kilos here. If you have the budget then you can look at a carbon rig but it’s worth bearing in mind that Axxon won’t supply the mast with a track for the mainsail, only a bolt rope groove. Basically they won’t guarantee the mast with either a track or even sliders used in the mast groove. It’s a pain in the ass but that wouldn’t stop you ordering a custom rig. Again all this is dependent on budget. 

Sounds like a pain with the fiber mast. I’ll have to ask if there is a way to get a track that does not void the warranty. Did your aluminum mast come with a track?

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7 hours ago, mpbeagle said:

Sounds like a pain with the fiber mast. I’ll have to ask if there is a way to get a track that does not void the warranty. Did your aluminum mast come with a track?

We actually went for the carbon mast and are just putting up with the problems, as far as I'm aware the aluminium mast has a track and also trisail track.

Our rig also has another halyard fitted at top spreader height on which we fly a genoa staysail, it measures in as the boats storm jib so it's bright orange but it is set on a furler and it's 3di Nordac material!

We too have a reaching strut for our boat, it is a selden 2m strut with spinnaker pole fittings at either end, it is rigged with a fixed length forward dyneema line and a aft running line with adjustable splice to set the strut height. The forward line was initially clipped to the stanchion base but we have since changed this to a Ropeye loop to take the extra load of the strut hitting the water. It is attached at the inboard end using a stainless ring spinnaker pole fitting at the base of the mast, on the carbon rig this area needs reinforcement to take the sideways compression loads.

the first picture here is a sistership with the unpainted storm jib, the other two pictures is our setup.

IMG_0386.JPG.2569fe2daa77601e84f7d754e9b9f47e.JPG

 

 

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This picture is terrible quality because of how much cropping it needed to get under 1mb upload size

IMG_0059.JPG.f945d29f15f13f8a858dbf2ea882e935.JPG

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6 hours ago, JL92S said:

IMG_0060.thumb.JPG.2a630be9f5998c0b53768a7f4420c011.JPG

Great and helpful picture.  Just so we understand: The red line is the sheet and the black line is a guy?

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From which TWA/TWS do you use the pole with your code 0?   As the pole is positioned relatively far forward I expect you only use it on deepers angles when the code is not fully sheeted in?

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8 hours ago, mpbeagle said:

Great and helpful picture.  Just so we understand: The red line is the sheet and the black line is a guy?

Looks like a clusterfuck to me.

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15 hours ago, mpbeagle said:

Great and helpful picture.  Just so we understand: The red line is the sheet and the black line is a guy?

The red is the regular jib sheet and the black is a kite sheet

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15 hours ago, ZeeZee said:

From which TWA/TWS do you use the pole with your code 0?   As the pole is positioned relatively far forward I expect you only use it on deepers angles when the code is not fully sheeted in?

Under normal rules I don’t think you can pole out the A0 (or any spinnaker) to leeward that’s not attached to the mast but let’s say you raced a rule system that you could then you would fit a ring further down the deck for use with an A0 or full assymetric 

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If you look closely the pole is attached to the mast, perfectly legal. No different to poling a the jib out downwind.

The Volvo boats have a different rule. 

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16 hours ago, JL92S said:

The red is the regular jib sheet and the black is a kite sheet

Your bow man obliviously needs a few tips. Happy to teach him. Clearly you can't.

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On 7/23/2018 at 5:21 AM, JL92S said:

I think we just ignore the trolls here. LB likes to call everyone else here internet sailors yet he’s the one on here contributing nothing say on his arse behind a keyboard. Up there with the best SA forum Nazis

I see you have been viewing my profile buttercup. How about you just give me a blowjob and we will call it even...

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16 hours ago, JL92S said:

Under normal rules I don’t think you can pole out the A0 (or any spinnaker) to leeward that’s not attached to the mast but let’s say you raced a rule system that you could then you would fit a ring further down the deck for use with an A0 or full assymetric 

I think the pic this dill posted tells it all. If any of you want to learn about these boats that pic  must have taught you something!  Move on. Why listen to some stupid cunt who can't even set an asso? 

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3 hours ago, Battleship said:

If you look closely the pole is attached to the mast, perfectly legal. No different to poling a the jib out downwind.

The Volvo boats have a different rule. 

I thought that the rule (IRC or perhaps ORC) is that you can only use one pole at a time. If the code 0 is flying from the bowsprit, then that is counted as a pole, so you can't use that reaching pole. The only time two poles are allowed was during a gybe. 

 

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5 hours ago, hoppy said:

I thought that the rule (IRC or perhaps ORC) is that you can only use one pole at a time. If the code 0 is flying from the bowsprit, then that is counted as a pole, so you can't use that reaching pole. The only time two poles are allowed was during a gybe. 

 

Thanks for not resorting to personal comments. 

You might be correct but I'm not one to bend rules and besides our reaching strut is only intended for the jib, using it with the A0 would probably require it to be a stronger strut

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Not familiar with IRC not very popular around here, but reaching struts have been used for over 40 years on boats with Symetrical kites and poles. Deployed when running the pole close to the forestay.

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12 hours ago, Battleship said:

Not familiar with IRC not very popular around here, but reaching struts have been used for over 40 years on boats with Symetrical kites and poles. Deployed when running the pole close to the forestay.

Are you not just in about a jockey pole?

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1 hour ago, JL92S said:

Are you not just in about a jockey pole?

Jockey pole - reaching strut.  Same thing.

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30 minutes ago, 12 metre said:

Jockey pole - reaching strut.  Same thing.

Either way they've been around a long time used with symmetrical kite on a pole. 

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My point was mainly that they deployed at the same time in response to Hoppy's comment, so maybe the two poles at the same time thing was exclusive to IRC.

On 7/27/2018 at 1:48 AM, hoppy said:

I thought that the rule (IRC or perhaps ORC) is that you can only use one pole at a time. If the code 0 is flying from the bowsprit, then that is counted as a pole, so you can't use that reaching pole. The only time two poles are allowed was during a gybe. 

 

 

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