LI_sailor

Sun Fast 3600

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Careful Hoppy i just got a warning from the Mods. Apparently one of the snowflakes ran crying to the mods that I had hurt their feelings. This place needs a softcock clean out.

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4 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Just for a laugh I thought I'd check to see how many 20 year old Corolla's there are for sail in Aus at the moment. There are 17 for sale and only 6 come with roadworthy certificates. At least one was non RWC or rego. By comparison, there are 22 BMW 3 series for sale of which 12 have RWC's.

Given that there were probably more Corolla's sold here in 1998 than BMW 3 series, the sales figures suggest that more BMW's have survived on the road and this is likely because they were better built and more durable.

Multiple errors in that analysis.

  1. No. for sale is a function of number in existence X churn rate.  It may not correlate with the number still on the road
  2. 17 vs 22 on a single day sample is not a statistically significant difference
  3. BMWs are enthusiasts' cars, so more likely to be restored than a commodity car like a Corolla
15 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I do find it funny that you would consider European and American cars equally as crap. Clearly you are clueless. The European cars (German) I have owned have been way better engineered than the Japanese cars I've owned. The Japanese cars are good, but not German good.

It's amusing to be called "clueless" by someone whose data sample is his own ownership.

Instead of relying on your own anecdotal experience, check out the data from the likes of JD Power or WarrantyDirect.co.uk

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14 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

Multiple errors in that analysis.

  1. No. for sale is a function of number in existence X churn rate.  It may not correlate with the number still on the road
  2. 17 vs 22 on a single day sample is not a statistically significant difference
  3. BMWs are enthusiasts' cars, so more likely to be restored than a commodity car like a Corolla

It's amusing to be called "clueless" by someone whose data sample is his own ownership.

Instead of relying on your own anecdotal experience, check out the data from the likes of JD Power or WarrantyDirect.co.uk

1. It's more likely to relate to the number of vehicle on the road than it doesn't

2. You are right, 17 v 22 is not much different, but if you factor in the number vehicles sold in 1998, then you should expect that the 2018 figure will substantially favour the Corolla. However figures suggest that the Corolla has a higher scrap rate.   

3. The BMW 3 series listed don't look like enthusiast cars, just beat up 20 year old cars that are still going

 

You are still clueless to compare European to American

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46 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Careful Hoppy i just got a warning from the Mods. Apparently one of the snowflakes ran crying to the mods that I had hurt their feelings. This place needs a softcock clean out.

They must be that same people who want every boat in the race called a winner so no one gets their feelings hurt.

Could be a good idea for a new handicap system. The boats handicap is not calculated until after the race is completed and the post race handicaps ensure there is a fleet wide dead heat on corrected time :)

 

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I'm surprised that Lydia is against production boats... The statistics suggest that the S38 was a production boat and didn't they all need some steering or rudder fix? :D

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23 minutes ago, hoppy said:

You are still clueless

"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left." -- Margaret Thatcher

Same goes for ad hominems is any context.

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

I'm surprised that Lydia is against production boats... The statistics suggest that the S38 was a production boat and didn't they all need some steering or rudder fix? :D

Well, his did after it was beached as, way back when.

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On 7/29/2018 at 3:47 AM, lydia said:

FFS someone show me a SF 3600 that does not a rust stain coming out the hull keel join.

So that would a good place to start because the rust stain is not the problem.

There you go!

They are just a production build so built to a price not a quality.

Just like a Corolla

Pretty simple.

So lets not kid ourselves about build quality.

The rust stains were a problem on the UK supplied boats as well well. Some boats were retrofitted with the lead fin keel while most new boats supplied now have the lead fin as standard. 

In other news a 3600 took the irc class 3 win in the RORC channel race at the weekend. They also finished second behind a 3200 in the 2 handed catagory. The course wasn’t basically a giant windward leeward course in 30-40kts in a steep 4m swell. This continues a long streak of good results and class wins in this years rorc season that has mostly seen unusually light airs for Northern Europe.

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Given this discussion, I had to laugh when I received a recall letter today for my Audi..

Stupid Audi using Japanese engineered and constructed airbags in my car.

 

 

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Hoppy, how do you get I am against production boats, really!

I am against shit production boats however.

As for the S 38 never really production boat as built to order like Shaggy's POGO

But still, had a cost limit in production.

New rudders have a machined shaft not fabricated.

Keel frame is glued to hull not laminated. Although there is the old one where later it has been laminated.

If a one off no budget build, the construction would be different.

However, given the attitude of the fan boys around here, I will just go and check the water has stopped coming out of the hull core of the SF 3600 I saw a week ago with the keel off.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Careful Hoppy i just got a warning from the Mods. Apparently one of the snowflakes ran crying to the mods that I had hurt their feelings. This place needs a softcock clean out.

What are you doing bringing your fanboy on to this thread to talk about Corollas? Couldn't you just leave him jerking off over youtube videos of girls begging for money to sail thread?  

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3600 and 3200 the boat of choice for offshore double and single handers in UK and a lot of France. JPK’s very good too but nowhere near as popular. Error from me in 2010 buying a used 109 instead of a new 3200 (3600 not yet released, JPK too expensive). Part of my decsion was “build quality” having had J92 and 105 from new but that was a poor choice.

 

If you want a good all rounder the Sunfast is an excellent choice certainly under IRC. They have many many sea miles inc transatlantics to their credit

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13 minutes ago, Jambalaya said:

3600 and 3200 the boat of choice for offshore double and single handers in UK and a lot of France. JPK’s very good too but nowhere near as popular. Error from me in 2010 buying a used 109 instead of a new 3200 (3600 not yet released, JPK too expensive). Part of my decsion was “build quality” having had J92 and 105 from new but that was a poor choice.

 

if you want a good all rounder the Sunfast is an excellent choice certainky under IRC. They have many many sea miles inc transatlantics to their credit

Are you related to Snaggy?

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On 7/30/2018 at 3:31 AM, JL92S said:

The rust stains were a problem on the UK supplied boats as well well. Some boats were retrofitted with the lead fin keel while most new boats supplied now have the lead fin as standard. 

In other news a 3600 took the irc class 3 win in the RORC channel race at the weekend. They also finished second behind a 3200 in the 2 handed catagory. The course wasn’t basically a giant windward leeward course in 30-40kts in a steep 4m swell. This continues a long streak of good results and class wins in this years rorc season that has mostly seen unusually light airs for Northern Europe.

Useful information on a thread being dominated by cunts who like to see their post count go up.

thank you!

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We have had another 3600 arrive in Hamble, UK. Bringing the Solent fleet to 8 boats. The Irish boat Bam is inbound soon to take part in the Sevenstar round Britain and Ireland race starting on August 12th. This boat is called Foot Loose, it has come from another part of the UK. It has an aluminium rig with L shaped iron-lead keel, asymmetric spec longer bowsprit with overlength spinnaker pole, under new owners we hope to see it out racing soon

 

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Yes 3, we were supposed to be a class of 4 but sadly the owner of one of the boats had to pull out due to injuring himself. The start tomorrow should see 15-20kts from th south and decreasing into the first day.  By Wednesday the first front will come through bringing SW winds of up to 30kts, this front will stall over the west coast and then get shunted by a bigger front towards Friday and into Saturday. We are predicted to be at the top of the course at this time. Wind speeds predicted to be 45+kts and seas at 4+ metres. It’s going to get pretty boisterous out there

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Boat is designed for 2 handed offshore  work. Load it up with 9 crew and bags and accessories and it is slow and will not rate. Keep it light and it will.

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After nearly 2000 sailed miles I can report on how the 3600 fared in the little trip round the UK:

Firstly it’s a tough boat, the conditions were pretty rough out there and all boats took a beating, only thing broken on the boat was a loose fiddle tail in the galley, I would recommend an extra hand rail and add additional screws in all the fiddle rails. Only other thing to get damaged was our saucepan after the lid got bend after flying across the boat after we took a breaking wave.

The standard Jeanneau soft eye deck fittings are mostly good but one did weep after some heavy use, all extra soft fittings we had fitted were ropeye ones and they are lighter, simpler and don’t leak. Other than that the boat completely bone dry.

the cascade backstay system is prone to stretch, before the race we could get 1.8t on the headway if we maxed the backstay, by the finish it was 1.3t would suggest other methods of backstay tensioning if you do lots of windy racing or ocean racing.

the boat was quick on every point of sail. However it’s pretty damn uncomfortable!

on a reach the strut worked really well. It’s biggest test came on the Atlantic coast, the wind at 20-25 average with 3m waves with squalls up to 35kts sailing at a TWA of 100°, we had a combination of full J2+ on strut and with a double reefed main. The boat was making between 10 and 12kts on average and 15 in the squalls with the pilot only needing up to 3° of rudder to keep the boat in a straight line. Fast but damn uncomfortable! Our fastest 24 hour average speed was 12.6kts...

downwind flying the A3 from the pole worked really well in over 20kts. Downwind the boat will happily sail fast but you do still feel the weight if you drop off a wave and are reminded you’re sailing 4.8t irc boat. Top speed of the race was 19.7 in 30kts of wind with the A3 and full main. 

The staysail adds about half a knot in the right condition

on a reach and downwind keeping the windward rudder partly in the water keeps you under control, flying the rudder can load up the leeward rudder too much and can wash out. 

Upwind the boat likes to be pressed. In 20kts of wind we would see 7.8-8kts at 45twa I’m flatter water we would be 7.4-7.6 at 40twa.

the boat is getting a full survey which will tell us if anything structurally is wrong with it. The 2 frames that make up the forward end of the galley and chart table have come unstuck from the deck. I think this was only a sikaflex join/seal but it will get looked at. 

Standard gas bottle/pipe set up could be improved, the gas hose can squash in the locker, would recommend an armoured hose to prevent it.

with the EFOY fuel cell we were never troubled for power although our instrument system did throw up  low voltage alarm but after checking the battery it was fine. If specking a Super B lithium ion battery I would recommend the super b battery monitor as it’s more accurate than the standard battery monitor. About 5 days into the race we used the engine to give the battery a kick after a recommendation from another 3600 owner because the fuel cell charges at a fairly slow rate. In total we used 18 litres of methanol for 12 days at sea. This included running a laptop, 2 iPhones and an iPad Pro  as well as the autopilot for 1800 miles of the 1950 miles sailed. We ran engine for a total of half an hour for the in the whole race. 

 

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Thanks for the report, sounds like you had a great time and the boat held up well. The only real damage is to the egos of those on this thread who were convinced that the boat is made of sellotape and string and front was definitely going to fall off.

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2 hours ago, JL92S said:

 

the cascade backstay system is prone to stretch, before the race we could get 1.8t on the headway if we maxed the backstay, by the finish it was 1.3t would suggest other methods of backstay tensioning if you do lots of windy racing or ocean racing.

 

 

Thats's quite interersting, whats the backstay made from?  Perhaps replace with pre-stretched Dux.

Also are mods being made after the boat in Western Australia had the rig come down due to a backstay to hull fitting failure ( I believe)

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13 minutes ago, mezaire said:

Thats's quite interersting, whats the backstay made from?  Perhaps replace with pre-stretched Dux.

Also are mods being made after the boat in Western Australia had the rig come down due to a backstay to hull fitting failure ( I believe)

I think it’s regular sk75 dyneema. It’s not a bad system it’s just that with so many lashings and cascades and ‘string’ there’s lots of potential for stretch if not put together properly. Our own riggger re rigged and re spliced a lot of stuff done by the commissioning company after the first sea trial on the boat, I think now we will get him to replace the whole system with sk99 or sk90 and hopefully that should all work out fine. With the carbon rig being so stiff you need a lot of power in the backstay and therefore lots of purchase. It was mentioned in a previous post about additional winches offered by the German mainsheet setup, an option for the backstay could be to have those winches instead. A local JPK 1180 uses a pair of winches for that same reason. I think this could be the answer for the serious offshore or long distance ocean racer. Also i’d rather have cascades or winches over hydraulics.

also I’ll check our backstay hull fitting too but ours hasn’t shown any signs of fatigue yet.

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When I was shopping for a new ride last year, the next available Pogo 12.5 hull wasn’t going to be available for delivery for @ 2 years. Way longer than my attention span. Too bad because it does a lot of things I like. For example .... uh .... what were we talking about?

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The strop to the masthead above the cascade should be PBO or Aramid or even EC3/EC6. Then the cascade should be prestretched heat set SK99 that’s 1-2 diameters oversized for the load. 

78 and 99 are the lowest stretch/creep options on the market today. Every other version stretches too much. 

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We might look at that as the next options, we had similar issues regarding the standard bowsprit early in the season, mainly bob stay stretch, we'll take what we learnt from that and apply it to the backstay. 

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12 hours ago, jackolantern said:

The strop to the masthead above the cascade should be PBO or Aramid or even EC3/EC6. Then the cascade should be prestretched heat set SK99 that’s 1-2 diameters oversized for the load. 

78 and 99 are the lowest stretch/creep options on the market today. Every other version stretches too much. 

Interesting, from what I know if you pre-stretch Dux it won't stretch or creep.

Have a look at the thread in gear anarchy about Dux longevity 

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JL thanks for the updates,  very interesting reading. Well done of course on the race.

 

I think the French boats who do transatlantic events like the Trans Quadra spend a lot of time sorting & preping (as you’d expect).i wonder if you can piggy back on some of that. I know from my own limited experiences that really sorting a “factory” boattKes a lot of time and thought

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Well done to Sunfast 3600 Redshift Reloaded on winning the UK IRC double handed national championships! 

4 inshore races followed by a double points 75 mile offshore race

Series Place Sail No Boat Type of Boat Owner Handicap Series Points Race 1 Race 2 Race 3 Race 4 Race 5 Race 6
1 GBR419R Redshift Reloaded Sun Fast 3600 Ed Fishwick 1.053 13 4 4 2 1 1 1
2 FRA35829 Cora Sun Fast 3200 Nigel Goodhew 1.001 25 2 5 1 3 7 7
3 GBR2986L Jubilee J/109 Christopher Preston 1.017 26 3 6 3 2 6 6
4 GBR5936R Game On Sun Fast 3600 Ian Hoddle 1.042 27 8 2 4 7 3 3
5 GBR3657L Bellino Sun Fast 3600 Rob Craigie 1.041 29 7 1 5 8 4 4
6 FRA43791 Shaitan Jpk 10.80 Jean-Eudes Renier 1.042 33 5 10 9 5 2 2
7 GBR7805R Jin Tonic J/105 Stephen Roberts 1.005 42 1 3 6 4 14 14
8 GBR979R Malice Hod 35 Mike Moxley 1.022 44 6 7 7 6 9 9
9 GBR795R Diablo Sun Fast 3600 Nick Martin 1.035 51 11 11 10 9 5 5
10 GBR8956R Mzungu Sun Fast 3200 Tony White 0.990 64 14 9 8 13 10 10
11 MLT105 Bigfoot J/105 Robert Nelson 1.001 72 10 14 17 15 8 8
12 GBR9197R High Jinks J/97 Chris Miles 0.975 72 13 8 13 10 14 14
13 GBR2904L Hot Pursuit Sun Fast 3200 Richard Lewis 1.001 74 12 17 12 11 11 11
14 GBR7383R Puma Reflex 38 Stuart Wilkie 1.054 79 17 13 11 14 12 12
15 GBR912R Polka First 34.7 Marcus Wareham 0.993 81 15 12 14 12 14 14
16 GBR4436 Blue Note Jpk 10.80 Stephen Hopson 1.046 86 9 17 17 15 14 14
17 FRA38418 Bouznik' Jpk 10.80 Francois Valraud 1.038 94 17 17 17 15 14 14

 

 

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