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LI_sailor

Sun Fast 3600

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So this boat came out and people seemed pretty fired up about it.

Now I am seeing a bunch of them for sale around the globe.  Any thoughts on the boat and did it fail its promise?

It looks pretty fun and interesting; so I guess I am missing something ?

thanks!

 

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The boat is fantastic, we collected one this year and are campaigning it at the moment. In the UK and Northern Europe there are good numbers of them racing and we regularly see 6 UK boats racing. We have gone as light as possible on our spec and I strongly advise it, the boat comes alive in the lighter airs and planes earlier downwind. On top of the performance the build quality and design is first class.

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What was your view of that versus the JPK 1080?

I agree it a sexy looking boat; and the IRC rating seems pretty achievable.  Obviously its something I am looking into right now ....

 

 

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It depends on what what handicap system you race under, I can only speak for IRC but I know that a pogo 36 wouldn’t be competitive. The 3600s and 1080s are very evenly matched, the general consensus is that the 1080 is subtly faster in all round conditions but the 3600 is easier to sail and extract performance from. The 1080 has also benefitted from some high profile sailors to campaign them (mainly Courrier Leon and Adam Gosling’s Yes!) which has thrown up some very good results. With our 3600 we were up to speed very quickly with good backup from the dealer network here and it’s worth noting that JPK don’t have a dealer network and you deal with them directly and that their yard only builds 20 boats per year whereas Jeanneau are truly mass production. I’m not sure on the JPK standard spec but with the 3600 you get a symmetrical layout with twin cabins aft and heads/wet area forwards, watertight bulkhead forward of the rudders and also a watertight crash bulkhead at the bow, the forward sea cocks are also behind watertight hatches. 

Sunfast 3600 specs vary massively, at one end you have some boats weighing in at 5200kg with a L shaped keel assymetric kites and aluminium mast and carrying extra lead batteries. Ours is the other end of the spectrum weighing under 4900kg with a straight lead fin keel, symmetric kites, carbon rig and lithium ion battery fuel cell combo. 

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So I am looking at it pretty seriously; it seems to tick all of the boxes for me.  If I could beg your indulgence for a few more:

1. Which other boats do you typically race against; how do you do in general.  What are your thoughts on the IRC rating in different conditions.

2. What crew size do you typically use?

3. Do you use both spin + bowsprit; or just one?  I ask because finding experienced bowman seems to get harder each year; so I wanted to lean only for a bowsprit type of boat to make it easier.

4. Do you mostly race around the cans or long distance.  Do you find she works better in one versus the other?

5. What breeze do you typically sail in?  Do you find she is better in more or less breeze?  I ask because where I sail; we have good breeze in the fall and spring ..... and summer is very low breeze.

6. How much FUN have you had sailing her?  I ask, because around here the J boats are everywhere because they do well under IRC.  But a lightweight boat that planes seems like a LOT of fun.  And versus the Pogo 12.50 or 36; the IRC rating seems like she is competitive.

I guess that is it for now; thanks!

 

 

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1. We race against the usual RORC fleet in irc2 first 40.7s, first 40s, jpk 1080. Currently we feel the boat has huge potential, the only thing letting us down is our own nav! We come out at 1.056 which is the highest rated 3600 in the UK but like I said we went with a light boat. We did some brief round the cans racing and we beat some experienced teams racing J109s and a well set up J35 and also first 35s.

2. We are doing an offshore based campaign double handed. The boat has huge stability that you don’t need a big crew. Even inshore I wouldn’t race with more than 6/7. 

3. In our fleet there is an even split between sym and asym. We have in our inventory an S2, A3, A0 and S3(redundency sail if we bust the others) we use the standard slightly over length pole with the stock bowsprit. We pushed our kite size to give us power downwind and the spinnaker choice is personal. No distinct advantage to any boat here. Dead running the sym is better otherwise there’s no disadvantage to the asym setup.

4. 80% offshore 20% inshore, next year we may look at more inshore as we were surprised to win our first ever inshore race in this boat against a competitive fleet.

5. Typically a wide chined hull should be sticky In light airs and our can be (sub 6 kts). So far this year we have had really light airs and the boat has still been competitive. In more breeze the boat is still competitive. It‘s worth noting that some of the heavier spec boats are slower in the light airs. Try to keep the boat under 5000kg on measured weight. We are sub 4900

6. We are in the privileged position that we campaign both a J88 inshore and the 3600 offshore and it’s 2 different kinds of fun. If you want a dinghy like boat then the J is best but we have loved sailing the 3600, you can take satisfaction in how capable it is and believed me we have tried taking the 88 offshore and after a while you get tired of the boat falling over all the time and getting nicked back by even moderate waves but the sunfast just takes everything as it comes. Budget is another story here. A carbon rig boat with all the toys will be expensive but a good compromise would be an asym boat, alloy mast, fin keel and a lightweight battery setup. We looked at everything we need on the boat and assessed if it could be made lighter or more effective. Clutches are constrictors, liferaft is lightweight (but meets iso etc.), carbon boom (a bit of an indulgence), replaced 2 lead batteries with a single Li ion battery, removed the black water tank, removed the shower, removed the fridge motor, replaced the stainless boarding ladder with a small one fitted into the transom. We have installed a fuel cell by EFOY which takes care of all our power needs and also installed a heater to make things more comfortable offshore. And finally don’t be afraid to push sail sizes up, especially downwind, the boat responds well to power in the lighter airs. 

Tomorrow morning we are racing in the (very light forecasted) RORC Cowes - St Malo Race so i’ll report back in a few days!

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assume like most, that you went for the twin tiller option?

do they clutter up the cockpit as much as they appear to?

Single tiller on the JPK 1080 has always looked more appealing to me. 

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I would normally choose a single tiller as well but the sunfast cockpit is designed around twin tillers so it works. It would be nice to steer with legs and play kite sheets in a gybe but it’s also nice to steer holding a tiller rather than a tiller extension that has play in it. 

Our St Malo Race started well with us leading the fleet of irc boats and class 40s for the first 30 miles of the race until the wind shut down. We showed moments of brilliant speed but were ultimately inconsistent. I was also surprised how were were able to keep up with and pull away from the much slipperier J112 in sub 8kt conditions upwind and downwind. Next stop for us is the Sevenstar round Britain and Ireland race next month!

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4 hours ago, LB 15 said:

One trick pony. If only the wind was always at 110...

A Pogo maybe but I beg to differ on the 3600. Our very first race day was windward leeward racing in 10kts of wind. The competition was a heavily optimised, a very well sailed Corby 33, a couple of Prima 38s, a First 35 and HOD 35. We were short crewed and managed a second and two bullets having only just a set foot on the boat

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I think the Pogo designs are much more fun and I would love to buy the 12.50.  But the reality is they get destroyed in IRC ratings, hence I would agree that they are the one trick pony.

What I find fascinating about the 3600 is that it appears to have a good rating. So you get a modern race boat with potential to plane and also a good blue water boat ..... but at the same time you can still race around the cans and win.  

 

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Are you in the market for new or second hand? 

It’s worth noting that from the factory the hull finish under the water isn’t the best and it would be worth setting some money/time aside to iron out some of the creases. 

It sounds like you would be interested in an asymmetric rigged boat. As a spec for club racing I would pick the irc lead fin keel, alloy rig, lightly faired hull and apply A4 t speed. H5000 pilot, go big on kites (maybe 140-150sqm for asymmetric) and spec it as light as possible and get you sailmaker to experiment with jib sizes to tweak the rating to how you want it.

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On 7/17/2018 at 6:14 PM, JL92S said:

A Pogo maybe but I beg to differ on the 3600. Our very first race day was windward leeward racing in 10kts of wind. The competition was a heavily optimised, a very well sailed Corby 33, a couple of Prima 38s, a First 35 and HOD 35. We were short crewed and managed a second and two bullets having only just a set foot on the boat

Well in a local offshore race here last year we on the Pogo were gybing back and forward all day with a very well sailed 3600in 5-10 knots dead square. We were at the back of the fleet. Also I have sailed on a mates 36 in a club race. One trick pony but clearly not in the hands of a superstar like you. Maybe having 600k less of crew weight may have helped?

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9 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Well in a local offshore race here last year we on the Pogo were gybing back and forward all day with a very well sailed 3600in 5-10 knots dead square. We were at the back of the fleet. Also I have sailed on a mates 36 in a club race. One trick pony but clearly not in the hands of a superstar like you. Maybe having 600k less of crew weight may have helped?

Suggest you read up on the SunFast 3600s results in Europe across a wide variety of conditions over the last couple of years. And that's with mere mortals sailing them. 

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17 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Well in a local offshore race here last year we on the Pogo were gybing back and forward all day with a very well sailed 3600in 5-10 knots dead square. We were at the back of the fleet. Also I have sailed on a mates 36 in a club race. One trick pony but clearly not in the hands of a superstar like you. Maybe having 600k less of crew weight may have helped?

If a 3600 was near a pogo 12.50 on the course then that hardly flatters your own sailing skills. And besides the windward leeward racing we had was with a crew and there’s definitely no rockstars here, just keen amateurs. I’ll concede a heavy boat can have dog days. A light boat with less ‘crap’ onboard will outsail it’s rating. Check out some of BooBooNZ’s videos on YouTube.

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5 hours ago, JL92S said:

If a 3600 was near a pogo 12.50 on the course then that hardly flatters your own sailing skills. And besides the windward leeward racing we had was with a crew and there’s definitely no rockstars here, just keen amateurs. I’ll concede a heavy boat can have dog days. A light boat with less ‘crap’ onboard will outsail it’s rating. Check out some of BooBooNZ’s videos on YouTube.

I think this only shows your ignorance of Pogos. Have you sailed one? Against one? Of course this being the internet you can claim you have. Like your claim that a few of you jumped on board for the first time and beat up a bunch of well sailed fully crewed boats. But you keep learning how to sail on you tube. 

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