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KansasPaul

New to sailing - open to boat advise

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I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death but I'm looking for advice on my first boat purchase.  Here's the background:  started sailing literally 4 weeks ago. I absolutely am hooked. I've been training on a MC16 scow - understand the basics, I can right it after a tip over, docking, etc.  I'm still learning about sail shaping (studying as much as I can, unfortunately in our normally windy local area the wind has been mild recently) - planning to get out more to practice as much as possible before the end of the season.  I'm wanting to buy my own boat and get out to practice more frequently. This is where I'm having some difficulty. I do enjoy the MC but I feel like I want something a little different and something I can drag another person on once in a while. For 90% of my sailing I will be sailing solo - ease of rigging (fast time) is also important.  I don't want to sail a slow barge but at least for now I want it to be stable.  I kayak a lot and boat heel doesn't bother me but the lake closest to me (about 5 miles from home) has very little boat traffic and if I turtle it, I'm hosed.  A couple of boats that have popped up for sale include: Rebel, Sweet 16, Johnson 18 (love the boat design - afraid it would be too far beyond my current abilities), the occasional Hobie Holder/Vangard, and all kinds of Cats (I'm ruling these out at this time).  Wanting to hold the budget to <$3K

So there you have it - any suggestions for a "lively", fun boat that I can singlehand and add one or two others on occasion? 

Thanks!

Paul

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Wit a budget of less than 3K, Laser or Sunfish (used of course) Or if you really want to sail with another person, something like a Capri 14.2 or a Buccaneer. Others will present other options.

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Vanguard 15 is good. Can be righted by yourself. Although in some ways the scow is easier because you have two boards to use.

You don't feel comfortable righting the scow by yourself? Why not buy one?

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3 hours ago, KansasPaul said:

I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death but I'm looking for advice on my first boat purchase.  Here's the background:  started sailing literally 4 weeks ago. I absolutely am hooked. I've been training on a MC16 scow - understand the basics, I can right it after a tip over, docking, etc.  I'm still learning about sail shaping (studying as much as I can, unfortunately in our normally windy local area the wind has been mild recently) - planning to get out more to practice as much as possible before the end of the season.  I'm wanting to buy my own boat and get out to practice more frequently. This is where I'm having some difficulty. I do enjoy the MC but I feel like I want something a little different and something I can drag another person on once in a while. For 90% of my sailing I will be sailing solo - ease of rigging (fast time) is also important.  I don't want to sail a slow barge but at least for now I want it to be stable.  I kayak a lot and boat heel doesn't bother me but the lake closest to me (about 5 miles from home) has very little boat traffic and if I turtle it, I'm hosed.  A couple of boats that have popped up for sale include: Rebel, Sweet 16, Johnson 18 (love the boat design - afraid it would be too far beyond my current abilities), the occasional Hobie Holder/Vangard, and all kinds of Cats (I'm ruling these out at this time).  Wanting to hold the budget to <$3K

So there you have it - any suggestions for a "lively", fun boat that I can singlehand and add one or two others on occasion? 

Thanks!

yPaul

You really just described the MC. Single handed till it gets windy, then need two.  generally pretty fast and very stable. Put a float on the mast and it won't turtle. has room for 3 people in a pinch. 

Vanguard is good but harder to sail alone (jib) and only room for 2. Same for laser and many of the other boats you listed. Johnson 18 is a fun fast boat but a handful to singlehand. 

I would go for the MC if you can get one for the budget

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Paul, if you can score a Johnson 18 at your price, do it.  You don't have to sail it using all its power till your ready. A reef in the main & set the jib up for cross sheeting and  go.  The V 15 isn't a bad choice either. Easier to right than an MC or a J 18 but not the performance either. Also, look at a Raider. Look at all the stuff written on it on S/A..

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2 hours ago, Blackjack2 said:

Paul, if you can score a Johnson 18 at your price, do it.  You don't have to sail it using all its power till your ready. A reef in the main & set the jib up for cross sheeting and  go.  The V 15 isn't a bad choice either. Easier to right than an MC or a J 18 but not the performance either. Also, look at a Raider. Look at all the stuff written on it on S/A..

J18 is not easily rightable alone. Stay away.
V15 is a planing dinghy. Very sporty reaching and off the wind. Singlehanded especially if you are big, it is quite a blast and more comfortable than a laser.
MC scow is a scow. Feels different than a planing dinghy. Very fast on average but heavy (400 lbs) so more stable feeling than a V15 and not as sporty feeling on a reach.
The easier to recover thing I don't necessarily agree with WRT V15. The daggerboard is pretty high out of the water. But totally doable. I've self rescued the V15 in 25 knots. I've only flipped the MC a few times and it was easy to re-right but I did not flood it. They float high on side decks unless they turtle. V15 comes up dry. MC not if turtled. I've raced MC both alone and with crew.

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From your screen name it seems you might be in Kansas? Where are you looking to sail the boat primarily? Back when I sailed at Cheney, Sweet 16s had a decent little one design presence so that might be something worth looking into as well. 

Even if you aren't ready to race, having a boat that has a local class will open up a lot of local resources to you and can help you learn a lot as a new sailor. 

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11 hours ago, fastyacht said:

J18 is not easily rightable alone. Stay away.
V15 is a planing dinghy. Very sporty reaching and off the wind. Singlehanded especially if you are big, it is quite a blast and more comfortable than a laser.
MC scow is a scow. Feels different than a planing dinghy. Very fast on average but heavy (400 lbs) so more stable feeling than a V15 and not as sporty feeling on a reach.
The easier to recover thing I don't necessarily agree with WRT V15. The daggerboard is pretty high out of the water. But totally doable. I've self rescued the V15 in 25 knots. I've only flipped the MC a few times and it was easy to re-right but I did not flood it. They float high on side decks unless they turtle. V15 comes up dry. MC not if turtled. I've raced MC both alone and with crew.

I've read a lot about the Jn18 - there is much to like about the boat but my greatest concern was tipping it while sailing alone. Even with a mast float I think I'm probably better off with a different boat.  

I don't dislike the MC - seems predictable, stable, single sail is easy to manage and I do like that there are sophisticated sail trim (as compared to some "easy to sail" boats). The local fleet is a small group (about 8 total) of MCs. There are a handful of C Scows (in fact I'll be sailing a C this next week - that's the plan) - I do understand that it requires a crew. The MC has been easy to right - even without a mast float (provided that I get busy in righting the boat) - I would expect a mast float would be helpful. My issue is that I'm not necessarily enamored by the MC, but I have little to compare it to.  I've been on a Capri 14.2 - it was a really nice boat - I didn't feel any acceleration as what I felt on the MC. I'm not a small guy, 6'1" and 200 lbs. I'm nearly 60 but really active. Kayak a lot. I like the sense of sitting lower to the water - perhaps its the perception of speed, even if not fast.  The Laser just seems a bit small to me - I will indeed research the V15 more .

Thank you

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10 hours ago, Slick470 said:

From your screen name it seems you might be in Kansas? Where are you looking to sail the boat primarily? Back when I sailed at Cheney, Sweet 16s had a decent little one design presence so that might be something worth looking into as well. 

Even if you aren't ready to race, having a boat that has a local class will open up a lot of local resources to you and can help you learn a lot as a new sailor. 

I am indeed in Kansas.  Primary sailing at the moment is at Lake Shawnee - small, protected, with a typical south wind that allows long runs up/down the lake. Close to me is Pomona Lake - larger lake with the length running east/west. North and South winds lend well to some fun sailing. Melvern Lake is to the  south. I would plan to sail at Perry and Clinton lakes as I get more familiar with sailing and eventually see myself visiting lakes in Missouri and Arkansas.  Again, considering a lot of solo sailing (my wife may go but I suspect that she won't go for the dinghy thing - cruising sure - but hanging her butt over the side of a small boat just isn't going to happen. But, that's okay - she is very supportive of my outdoor endeavors.  There are a couple of Sweet 16s for sale locally, along with a Demon, prices are well in my range and at least on paper the boats look decent.  

Thank you for the suggestions.

 

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On 7/14/2018 at 10:44 AM, Slick470 said:

Even if you aren't ready to race, having a boat that has a local class will open up a lot of local resources to you and can help you learn a lot as a new sailor. 

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

Excellent advice! Much better to buy (or crew on) whatever the local OD fleet is, rather than choosing something obscure that no one else has. 

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3 hours ago, Svanen said:

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

Excellent advice! Much better to buy (or crew on) whatever the local OD fleet is, rather than choosing something obscure that no one else has. 

Actually, as I continue to think more about this process I'm beginning to feel as though this is sound advice.  The local group with whom I've been sailing/training is open to almost any kind of sailboat but the core group all sail MCs - and they appear to be very skilled at sailing them. Honestly, I've learned a ton in a short time. I'm in the process of looking for a used MC with decent rigging and sail.  We'll see where this goes.

I truly do appreciate all of the thoughts and suggestions.

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22 hours ago, KansasPaul said:

Actually, as I continue to think more about this process I'm beginning to feel as though this is sound advice.  The local group with whom I've been sailing/training is open to almost any kind of sailboat but the core group all sail MCs - and they appear to be very skilled at sailing them. Honestly, I've learned a ton in a short time. I'm in the process of looking for a used MC with decent rigging and sail.  We'll see where this goes.

I truly do appreciate all of the thoughts and suggestions.

Kp - Get a boat that others in your area sail. Then you will have resources for repairs, parts and other things. 

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