kurio99

Puffy Conditions

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Whenever we get a north wind, it passes through a series of trees and obstacles to the point where the bay looks like a piano keyboard.  Such as last Tuesday, when the pressure was bouncing between 12 knots to near zero in the blink of an eye.  With the RS700, I would be out on the rack each time that the tap shut off, so lots of windward capsizes.

Any strategies that would make these conditions more pleasant?

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In my opinion, there isn't anything that can make those conditions pleasant. Things you can do to make it a bit easier, trap higher than normal. This should make it easier to get in and out of the boat. Maybe trap from the gunwhales instead of the racks. Don't cleat the sheet. Get the reflexes of a cat. Hefty thigh muscles for those squats help too.

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Go downwind to St. Catharines? Drive three hours to Kingston and get out of the concrete jungle?  Head west to Port Credit?

There's is not a lot you can do if you stay south of downtown in those conditions.  The skyscraper canyons and acceleration zones off the Toronto lakeshore can be really ugly in a north wind.

 

 

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The RS700 has a carbon "automatic"/bendy rig -- are there ways to set the rig to a "softer" setting so it depowers earlier for the gust ? Changing the tension of diamond wires, downhaul? This might lose some power at the peak of the gust, but make it more manageable.

I've been mulling something similar for my Whisper foiler rig. In gusty conditions it can be maddening. Not sure how to go about it.

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13 minutes ago, martin.langhoff said:

The RS700 has a carbon "automatic"/bendy rig -- are there ways to set the rig to a "softer" setting so it depowers earlier for the gust ? Changing the tension of diamond wires, downhaul? This might lose some power at the peak of the gust, but make it more manageable.

I've been mulling something similar for my Whisper foiler rig. In gusty conditions it can be maddening. Not sure how to go about it.

I don't know the boat well, but this would be my tactic. Try to set it up so that the puff doesn't have such an immediate and hard "hit". Downhaul would probably help to let the top twist off in a puff. As Team Fugu suggested, trap higher and set yourself up to be able to respond quickly.

If the bay looks like "piano keyboard" you should be anticipating the puffs.

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21 hours ago, kurio99 said:

Any strategies that would make these conditions more pleasant?

Focus more on spotting and anticipating the lulls and gusts? All the boat tuning in the world isn't going to even out 0-12 knots.

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if you are under vanged the main will not respond fast enough to your sheet movements. If you are overvanged, the main will not be able twist itself in the puffs. I would play with the vang and rig settings to find the proper gust response, trap higher as fugu said, and go sailing someplace else like everyone else said... Anticipation is also key, as dogwatch said. 

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30 minutes ago, mustang__1 said:

if you are under vanged the main will not respond fast enough to your sheet movements. If you are overvanged, the main will not be able twist itself in the puffs. I would play with the vang and rig settings to find the proper gust response, trap higher as fugu said, and go sailing someplace else like everyone else said... Anticipation is also key, as dogwatch said. 

All excellent recommendations, I would add only one thing, make sure that when the main is fully sheeted in your mainsheet hand is close to your chin so you can dump easily without having to let the sheet run through your hands, this lets you get the main back in after the gust as fast as possible.

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17 minutes ago, Major Tom said:

All excellent recommendations, I would add only one thing, make sure that when the main is fully sheeted in your mainsheet hand is close to your chin so you can dump easily without having to let the sheet run through your hands, this lets you get the main back in after the gust as fast as possible.

good call on that as well. Also helps you keep the weight out farther :p

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Thanks.  Looks like I get to practice your tips tonight as it's another heavy north wind.

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Hi, Not familiar with the class.

The boat I have has swept back spreaders but the side shrouds terminate on a gunwall track car.  In these conditions, I put the windward car forward, and the lee one aft,  mast support is maintained.  However a gust then caused the windward spreader to push the mast centre forward flattening the main and drops the tip aft, twisting off the peak.  Your class rules may not allow this arrangement.  Also I find the major issue in these conditions, especially as the wind increases, the jib can overpower the helm if the main is eased and depowered too much.  The best I have come up with is to set the forestay as far forward as possible to open the slot and set the sheet in a low position on the clue.  This enables the jib to twist off a lot.  In the lulls, crew can cross sheet (put some tension on the windward sheet) to untwist the jib and bring it inboard for max power.  In the gusts crew releases windward sheet to set the jib further outboard  (open slot) and allow maximum twist to depower and reduce drag.  The conditions are still very uncomfortable but the boat moves better.  This is preferable to luffing up to spill wind which causes the boat to stagger.

Oh, I just realised the 700 is a single handed main only rig, no matter about the jib then.

 

Ken

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This is also why inland mountain lake sailing sucks.....

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Hmm, I'd have thought less gang rather than more...... something to experiment with.

Also, nobody mentioned the difficulty of not spilling the bong. This place is going downhill

FB- Doug

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42 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hmm, I'd have thought less gang rather than more...... something to experiment with.

Also, nobody mentioned the difficulty of not spilling the bong. This place is going downhill

FB- Doug

too little vang leads to too much mainsheet movement, too much mainsheet movement leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to windows 10, windows 10 leads to the dark side. 

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On 7/27/2018 at 9:30 AM, mustang__1 said:

too little vang leads to too much mainsheet movement, too much mainsheet movement leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to windows 10, windows 10 leads to the dark side. 

That escalated quickly....

What’s the consensus, OP?

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Try this technique to avoid windward capsizing.

  Keeping in mind that when you are in breeze and out on the rack, you are hopefully going fast.  

 Going fast means you are creating apparent wind.  You can use that apparent wind to keep yourself upright, but you have to move fast.

  When the lull hits (wind stops),  bear off radically, like 90 deg, sheeting the main hard at the same time.  There will be a second or two that the boat 

bleeds off speed, where you can quickly jump to the center of the boat before she tips to windward.  

  it's not pretty or fast, but should keep you dry... 

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how often do you get these conditions?  I own a 700 as well.   I gave up long ago, trying to sail in puffy winds. I mean big gusts and sudden lulls. Waste of time and effort.

The 700 rig is very sensitive to downhaul, crank it on for higher winds and she will become a much happier boat to sail.    I am much more fussier in what winds I go out in. The normal lifts and headers sort of thing is fine.  The more awkward winds are only begging a leeward capsize and the chance of falling onto the sail, which will wreck it and prob the masts sail track as well.  I tend to find something else to do.

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Sadly you've got the wrong boat for the conditions, I sail on a river lined with houses one side, the  occasional tree the other. I've seen over the years people turn up with trapese boats or even the more extreme non trapese boats because they look a go faster boat and very soon after they give up sailing or change boats.

In those conditions something much slower but more stable will almost always win on Handicap. Had you been in the UK I'd recommend something like the K1 dinghy, faster than a laser but with a 62kg lump of lead on it's drop keel.. http://k1association.org/boat/

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