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7 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/28/black-clad-antifa-attack-right-wing-demonstrators-in-berkeley/

We can trade links all day long, but, that's not really the point, is it? 

You want to condemn the violence of one group while condoning and supporting the violence of another.  

I condone AntiFa protecting non-violent counter-protestors from violent neo-Nazis by any means necessary. 

I condone AntiFa opposing white supremacists and neo-Nazis so that they can't recruit new members to their terrorist organizations.

 

image.png

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7 minutes ago, RKoch said:

I condone AntiFa protecting non-violent counter-protestors from violent neo-Nazis by any means necessary. 

I condone AntiFa opposing white supremacists and neo-Nazis so that they can't recruit new members to their terrorist organizations.

 

SO - you have no problem with normal citizens protecting themselves and their property from the violence that Antifa initiates?    Good to hear. 

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

SO - you have no problem with normal citizens protecting themselves and their property from the violence that Antifa initiates?    Good to hear. 

how much violence does Antifa initiate? I don't believe they initiated it in Charlottsville, but I could be wrong.

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6 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

SO - you have no problem with normal citizens protecting themselves and their property from the violence that Antifa initiates?    Good to hear. 

Normal citizens have nothing to worry about AntiFa. Normal citizens aren't terrorist Nazis. Normal citizens might choose to counter-protest Nazis. If so, AntiFa will try to protect them from Nazi violence. 

In opposing Nazis and white supremacists in general, AntiFa also serves to protect normal citizens from random violence like this:

 

image.png

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30 minutes ago, RKoch said:

I condone AntiFa protecting non-violent counter-protestors from violent neo-Nazis by any means necessary. 

I condone AntiFa opposing white supremacists and neo-Nazis so that they can't recruit new members to their terrorist organizations.

 

image.png

Maybe we round up everyone you don't like and send them to a re-education camp?  Or do we just gas them?

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22 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

how much violence does Antifa initiate? I don't believe they initiated it in Charlottsville, but I could be wrong.

In all sincerity,  the news accounts I followed that day reported several separate incidents - some were initiated by the march supporters, some were initiated by the counter-protestors.   So yeah,  aside from the fact that they felt morally superior by being counter-protestors, both sides had instatnces of culpability for initiating violence that day.  

IMHO - the better approach would have been to show up w/cell phone cameras running, let the Nazis have their march, video everything and then ridicule them by replaying the vids and letting the world see 'em for the stupid asses that they are.  Cracking their heads negated any moral authority that the counter protestors might have otherwise been able to claim. 

 

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

IIMHO - the better approach would have been to show up w/cell phone cameras running, let the Nazis have their march, video everything and then ridicule them by replaying the vids and letting the world see 'em for the stupid asses that they are.  Cracking their heads negated any moral authority that the counter protestors might have otherwise been able to claim. 

 

+1

That is exactly how free speech works.  Let the assholes make assholes of themselves.  Publicize it to make people think long and hard about whether they really want to be an asshole or not.

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

NOT THIS.

Jesus fuck, both of you are retards mentally deficient.  The question was NOT about ISIS or AQ followers running over people with cars.  It was about people marching peacefully and $peaking protected $peech. 

<facepalm>

They aren't marching peacefully. They are shooting at people and running people over.  

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2 minutes ago, jzk said:

That is exactly how free speech works.  Let the assholes make assholes of themselves.  Publicize it to make people think long and hard about whether they really want to be an asshole or not.

hasn't made fuck all difference with you.

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15 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

They aren't marching peacefully. They are shooting at people and running people over.  

 

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17 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

They aren't marching peacefully. They are shooting at people and running people over.  

 

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If all anyone did in Charlottesville is video the Nazis, it would have been an epic win for the Nazi shitheads.

The whole world would see people shot, beaten, and run over while the police stood around with their dicks in their hands. The obvious conclusion would be when the Nazis come for you, the police won't help because they are either scared little girls or actually support the Nazis.

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

In all sincerity,  the news accounts I followed that day reported several separate incidents - some were initiated by the march supporters, some were initiated by the counter-protestors.   So yeah,  aside from the fact that they felt morally superior by being counter-protestors, both sides had instatnces of culpability for initiating violence that day.  

IMHO - the better approach would have been to show up w/cell phone cameras running, let the Nazis have their march, video everything and then ridicule them by replaying the vids and letting the world see 'em for the stupid asses that they are.  Cracking their heads negated any moral authority that the counter protestors might have otherwise been able to claim. 

 

Antifa does video the Nazis and they also track social media, membership, public statements, etc, etc, and they publish it all in a professional format.

https://rosecityantifa.org/#blog

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Some of the businesses out this way have taken a dim view of fascists and fired their asses when they found out.

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Antifa is doing some great work. Here's one small example of Rose City Antifa in Portland documenting members of the Proud Boys.

Rob Cantrall

Robert Edward Cantrall

Rob Cantrall was one of the Pacific Northwest’s earliest Proud Boy converts, as the hate group’s brand seemed a precise fit for his already well-established penchant for violent harassment. Some of Joey Gibson’s earliest Portland-area far-right events were called “Antifa-Watch,” and typically involved Gibson calling upon his followers to descend upon leftist or even progressive demonstrations and interrupt them with harassment. Some of his followers, including Cantrall, added to Gibson’s directives by threatening demonstrators with violence. Footage from a May 13, 2017 anti-police-brutality event in downtown Portland shows Cantrall– attending Joey Gibson’s counter-protest– repeatedly attempting to fight or attack demonstrators. Even Gibson’s own violent followers such as David Fry (who would soon defect from Patriot Prayer in response to their violence) appeared uncomfortable.

Rob Cantrall and other Proud Boys planning to disrupt a police accountability rally
Rob Cantrall heeds Joey Gibson’s call to harass, disrupt, and assault an anti-police-brutality demonstration in downtown Portland, OR. Also pictured are other members of the Proud Boys hate group such as Dakota Gilmore, Matteo Dagradi, and Tiny Toese.

Rob Cantrall is confronted by other far-right demonstrators
After making an unprovoked assault against an activist, Rob Cantrall is confronted by Patriot Prayer follower David Fry. Fry soon abandoned Joey Gibson’s organization during a dispute over money.

Cantrall prides himself on the “Based Hobo” moniker he developed. This seems to be derived from his one-man-organization called “The Poverty Party,” which no longer has a website, and which seems never to have existed offline or offered any real services. At multiple events, Cantrall has been heard concern-trolling about the plight of poor and houseless people, while simultaneously advocating for the very systems of capitalist control which have produced such an epidemic of suffering.

In May of 2018, Proud Boy Rob Cantrall made national headlines when he and then-girlfriend Lauren Barrett (aka Lauren White) were documented on video making threats to burn down a leftist book store in Berkeley, CA. Also present with Cantrall when he made these threats were Bay Area far-right activists Jourdin and Alexandria Davis.

Rob Cantrall threatens to burn down a bookstore
Proud Boy Rob Cantrall threatens to burn down a bookstore.

Rob Cantrall boasts about having taken part in fascist rallies
After threatening to burn down a bookstore, Proud Boy Rob Cantrall boasts about having taken part in previous fascist rallies wherein Nazis assaulted activists. On April 15th, 2017 Joey Gibson also was in Berkeley and fought alongside neo-Nazis from the Rise Above Movement.

Rob Cantrall makes further threats and worships Trump
Rob Cantrall promises that Trump will purge his political opponents. Also pictured at the incident where Cantrall threatened to burn down a bookstore are Lauren Barrett, Jourdin Davis, and Alexandria Davis.

Rob Cantrall displays Islamophobia and antisemitism
Rob Cantrall displays the casual anti-semitism and Islamophobia that is typical among members of the Proud Boys hate group.

Rob Cantrall attempts to intimidate
Proud Boy Rob Cantrall attempts to intimidate activists by bizarrely licking the blade of a knife.

Rob Cantrall attends a violent right wing rally
Rob Cantrall is photographed in attendance at Joey Gibson’s violent and fascist-filled far-right rally on August 6, 2017.

Rob Cantrall denigrates Black Lives Matter
Racist Proud Boy Rob Cantrall denigrates the Black Lives Matter movement, declaring “Black Lives Don’t Matter”.

Rob Cantrall attends a Patriot Prayer rally
Rob Cantrall rides in the back of a truck with fellow Proud Boys Matteo Dagradi and Dakota Gilmore. Dagradi’s tattoo is clearly visible as a valknut. As we have noted before, this symbol does not always connote racism or fascism, but when it appears in the context of far-right political movements, it must be evaluated as such.

Rob Cantrall attends a Patriot Prayer rally
Rob Cantrall attends Joey Gibson’s October 15, 2017 rally in Salem, OR, which was also attended by members of the PDX Stormers neo-Nazi organization, and by teenage hammerskin-wannabe Noah Gunn. He can be seen in the bottom picture attempting to start a fight with an anti-fascist activist over Tiny Toese’s shoulder.

Rob Cantrall fawns over Milo Yiannopoulos
Rob Cantrall fawns over Nazi propagandist and pedophilia-apologist Milo Yiannopoulos after an April, 2018 Proud Boys booze cruise in New York which Milo also attended.

Rob Cantrall vents about a breakup
During a recent public social media breakup with former partner– and accomplice in threatening to burn down a bookstore– Lauren Barrett (aka Lauren White), Cantrall broadcast his phone numbers across several Facebook accounts.

Rob Cantrall allegedly harasses people working at a bar
An alleged incident as reported on social media wherein Rob Cantrall showed up drunk and belligerent to harass workers at a Portland bar.

Rob Cantrall spews anti-communist paranoia
Rob Cantrall exhibits the Proud Boys’ aggressive paranoia regarding their absurd caricatures of “communism” and “Marxism.” Fellow Proud Boy Russell Schultz responds with the symbol of the “anticom” neo-Nazi organization.

Rob Cantrall encourages Proud Boy violence
Rob Cantrall wishes fellow Proud Boy Donovon Flippo a happy birthday, and encourages Flippo’s public violence after Joey Gibson’s June 3, 2018 rally.

Rob Cantrall supports neo-Nazis
Rob Cantrall offers support to the business of neo-Nazi Jake Laskey, who used Wolfclan Armory as a studio to make far-right videos harassing activists in explicitly misogynist and homophobic terms. Laskey maintained a role in the American Front neo-Nazi organization, until he was again arrested for stabbing an acquaintance at a party.

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Sigh, never mind.  You all just don't get it.  I knew you guys hate the 2nd Amendment something fierce, but I never knew you all hated the 1st just as much.  I guess that constitution thing is just a god dammed piece of paper.

But fine, next time I'm back in the states - I'm going to round up some friends and go punch some vegans and hipsters.  Talk about scum of the earth.....  

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Jeff, can you explain how the First Amendment of the Big C applies to my hatred of fascists? Can you explain how it applies to my protesting fascists? Can you explain how it would apply to my punching fascists? I understand how my punching fascists would be against various laws but I'm at a loss as to how the First Amendment comes into this. For your reference:

Quote

Amendment I. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

As background, I'm not an elected Member of Congress and the only government job I've ever held was for grading papers at UC Berkeley which was a while ago.

Floor's yours.

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15 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Sigh, never mind.  You all just don't get it.  I knew you guys hate the 2nd Amendment something fierce, but I never knew you all hated the 1st just as much.  I guess that constitution thing is just a god dammed piece of paper.

But fine, next time I'm back in the states - I'm going to round up some friends and go punch some vegans and hipsters.  Talk about scum of the earth.....  

That's exactly what the Proud Boys threaten to do, beat up vegans, vegetarians, gays, trans people, and hipsters. And that's exactly what Antifa steps in to counter-demonstrate against when they say it in the public square. One of the Proud Boy thugs, Tiny Toese pictured above and document attacking numerous people, is wearing a sweatshirt that says, "Standing for Freedom of Speech without the Threat of Violence." And he's a violent freak looking for fights and provoking them. You've bought right into their bullshit. Protecting the first amendment is not what you are doing. You kid yourself. And you sound like a punk. We get it.

 

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17 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Sigh, never mind.  You all just don't get it.  I knew you guys hate the 2nd Amendment something fierce, but I never knew you all hated the 1st just as much.  I guess that constitution thing is just a god dammed piece of paper.

But fine, next time I'm back in the states - I'm going to round up some friends and go punch some vegans and hipsters.  Talk about scum of the earth.....  

Threats to burn down a bookstore are free speech? You're defending violent terrorists, not a peaceful political sect.

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5 minutes ago, lasal said:

 

That's exactly what the Proud Boys threaten to do, beat up vegans, vegetarians, gays, trans people, and hipsters. And that's exactly what Antifa steps in to counter-demonstrate against when they say it in the public square. One of the Proud Boy thugs, Tiny Toese pictured above and document attacking numerous people, is wearing a sweatshirt that says, "Standing for Freedom of Speech without the Threat of Violence." And he's a violent freak looking for fights and provoking them. You've bought right into their bullshit. Protecting the first amendment is not what you are doing. You kid yourself. And you sound like a punk. We get it.

 

Jeff likes guns. Nazis like guns. They're kinfolk.

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Maybe they are kin. It's a punk ass thing to say that you're going to punch vegans and hipsters, especially as a bullshit rhetorical device comparing defending the street from Nazis to claim Antifa is merely punching people they don't like. It's punk moves like that that show where someone stands. What a weak little troll.

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"So once again, it falls upon us to educate the far-right about their own political bedfellows."

 

image.png.ff4059b67b3aa5a9aeb793f9ebf83e41.png

 

Joey Gibson Allows White Supremacists to Stage a Photo Op with Mayor Wheeler

Sat, May 20, 2017

While we hate saying “we told you so” when it comes to White Supremacist organizing, Rose City Antifa and other community groups warned that White Supremacists were using the 429 “Free Speech” rally organized by Joey Gibson as a cover to organize in public, and they did.

Before April 29th, activists warned that the Hell Shaking Street Preachers, a group of local violent bigots that travel the country attempting to kick in the heads of protesters, including members Pucket Allen, Arcadio Pena, Blake Sheely, and Quincy Anatello would be there. But for those hairsplitters that refuse to be upset by anything less than swastika-brandishing, “real” Nazis, we are sorry to report that at least four non-apologetic White Supremacists were in attendance, and thanks to Oregon III% “security,” they had the freedom to pose with Mayor Wheeler for this jolly photo opportunity.

Nazi photo op

Now Gibson has scheduled another rally for June 4, in downtown Portland. Before that event, it would be good for people to familiarize themselves with some of these local racists. In a Facebook video posted May 19, Gibson claimed to disavow the Nazis that attend his rallies, and called on his followers to find them and kick them out. However, Gibson is himself friends with many of those Nazis on his Facebook, and they follow his Patriot Prayer page. And not even 24 hours after posting the video, far-right bigots were already commenting on the video, claiming that any Nazi that showed up would clearly be antifa in disguise. So once again, it falls upon us to educate the far-right about their own political bedfellows.

Here are those White Supremacists individually. Most of their real names are unknown, but they are all local to the Oregon I-5 Corridor area. If you have any further information about their names, locations, places of employment, or activities, we encourage you to email Rose City Antifa.

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If every one of those scum in Lasal's post got a bullet in the head I would not lose one seconds sleep.

In fact I would probably sleep more soundly knowing that the world was a little better place.

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5 hours ago, RKoch said:

Normal citizens have nothing to worry about AntiFa. Normal citizens aren't terrorist Nazis. Normal citizens might choose to counter-protest Nazis. If so, AntiFa will try to protect them from Nazi violence. 

Is that what AntiFa was doing in Berkeley last year? Because it sure looked like their whole goal was to shut down speech. Or start a riot.

I'm sure the irony of the left shutting down speech in Berkeley is lost on the antifa crowd.

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1 hour ago, lasal said:

"So once again, it falls upon us to educate the far-right about their own political bedfellows."

That is quite a FAQ "Rose City AntiFa" has. I note that their idea of "free speech" only involves their beliefs - anyone with a contrary opinion should be suppressed.

Looks like the self-appointed "true defenders of the constitution" are now against 2 of the first 10 amendments. Which amendment will the left champion against next?

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Contrary opinion.

 

Theives tend to have contrary opinions about property and ownership.

Its about the law.  And if inciting is against the law, and the police stand by and do nothing,  then others are absolutely right to defend that law. And violence to subdue the law breakers and defend the law is acceptable.

However,  unlike shooting someone for resisting arrest, the violence should be proportional.

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31 minutes ago, bpm57 said:

Is that what AntiFa was doing in Berkeley last year? Because it sure looked like their whole goal was to shut down speech. Or start a riot.

Are you aware that the organizer of that Berkeley 'free speech' event is back in jail? He's a three time felon. He forfeited his bail for missing a court date. Now he's been extradited to Texas on an assault charge.  Good riddance.

kyle-cropped.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Are you aware that the organizer of that Berkeley 'free speech' event is back in jail? He's a three time felon. He forfeited his bail for missing a court date. Now he's been extradited to Texas on an assault charge.  Good riddance.

kyle-cropped.jpg

Antifa, standing up to criminals so the local police force don't have to.

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40 minutes ago, bpm57 said:

That is quite a FAQ "Rose City AntiFa" has. I note that their idea of "free speech" only involves their beliefs - anyone with a contrary opinion should be suppressed.

Looks like the self-appointed "true defenders of the constitution" are now against 2 of the first 10 amendments. Which amendment will the left champion against next?

I'd be surprised if you're not fired for weak trolling. Check your contract.

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7 hours ago, RKoch said:

Normal citizens have nothing to worry about AntiFa. Normal citizens aren't terrorist Nazis. Normal citizens might choose to counter-protest Nazis. If so, AntiFa will try to protect them from Nazi violence. 

I like it when they just show up in numbers that far exceed the people they are protesting.

 

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3 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:
7 hours ago, RKoch said:

Normal citizens have nothing to worry about AntiFa. Normal citizens aren't terrorist Nazis. Normal citizens might choose to counter-protest Nazis. If so, AntiFa will try to protect them from Nazi violence. 

I like it when they just show up in numbers that far exceed the people they are protesting. 

I like it when they just show up. Thanks for another disengenuos troll.

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2 hours ago, lasal said:

I'd be surprised if you're not fired for weak trolling. Check your contract.

 

 

" Unlike the ACLU, whose supposed defense of “freedom” leads them to support the KKK and neo-Nazis "

https://rosecityantifa.org/faq/

Looks like they have the same misunderstanding that many on the left in here have.

 

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8 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Jeff, can you explain how the First Amendment of the Big C applies to my hatred of fascists? Can you explain how it applies to my protesting fascists? Can you explain how it would apply to my punching fascists? I understand how my punching fascists would be against various laws but I'm at a loss as to how the First Amendment comes into this. For your reference:

As background, I'm not an elected Member of Congress and the only government job I've ever held was for grading papers at UC Berkeley which was a while ago.

Floor's yours.

Yep, thanks for asking.  While you are 100% correct that the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to you punching nazis directly, and I've already acknowledged that here already several times..... how it DOES apply is that you feel the need to punch Nazis because you feel the gov't itself is powerless to stop their speech.  You are frustrated by this and feel the need to take the law into your own hands to stop what you feel should not be allowed to happen at all.  That's called vigilantism.  Numerous of you have stated that you hate that the cops stand around protecting these bags of nazi dicks.  They protect them because THEY are bound by the first amendment.  If the gov't was allowed to round them up and arrest them as soon as they goose-stepped down main street, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, would we?

So therefore, if you actually believed in the tenants of the First Amendment, you would not take the law into your own hands and want to go punch them.  Instead, you would feel like I, several others here, the ACLU, and on and one that despite being personally disgusted by the words being spoken and the message they stand for - they do have a right to say them right up to the point where they take action on their violent message.  Ergo, you hate the 1st Amendment, and rest of the constitution apparently, because you feel the gov't should be stopping this and because they are not - you're not only attempting to deny these shitstains their freedom of speech through violence but also their due process as well.  

As I've said many times here already.... you absolutely have the right to shout them down, block their path, stop them from marching in any non-violent way you can think of and deny them their free speech in that manner in ways that the gov't cannot.  And if they resort to violence, then you absolutely have the right to self-defense.  What you do NOT have the right to do is preemptively use violence to stop them.  

I yield the floor back to my esteemed colleague and the chairman may allocate my remaining minutes back to the chamber and I shall speak no further on this matter.  I took an oath to support and defend the constitution and that means ALL of it.  Not just the parts I agree with.  Trust me, it would be greatly satisfying to go to a neo-nazi rally and crack some skinhead's skulls with nightsticks.  But I happen to believe in that goddammed piece of paper.  

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8 hours ago, RKoch said:

Jeff likes guns. Nazis like guns. They're kinfolk.

See @A guy in the Chesapeake, this ^^ is what I was talking about in your PUI thread.  There can be no rational discourse here with people like this.  

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6 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Contrary opinion.

 

Theives tend to have contrary opinions about property and ownership.

Its about the law.  And if inciting is against the law, and the police stand by and do nothing,  then others are absolutely right to defend that law. And violence to subdue the law breakers and defend the law is acceptable.

However,  unlike shooting someone for resisting arrest, the violence should be proportional.

NO, it doesn't work that way.  That's the very definition of vigilantism.  

Hey @jocal505, are you tracking on this???  Is your vigilante radar not flashing red right now?  How can you condone this with your silence when you have loudly stated for years that the mere act of a woman passively carrying a concealed gun in her handbag to go to work is a vigilante act and promotes a violence mentality????  

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7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yep, thanks for asking.  While you are 100% correct that the 1st Amendment doesn't apply to you punching nazis directly, and I've already acknowledged that here already several times..... how it DOES apply is that you feel the need to punch Nazis because you feel the gov't itself is powerless to stop their speech.  You are frustrated by this and feel the need to take the law into your own hands to stop what you feel should not be allowed to happen at all.  That's called vigilantism.  Numerous of you have stated that you hate that the cops stand around protecting these bags of nazi dicks.  They protect them because THEY are bound by the first amendment.  If the gov't was allowed to round them up and arrest them as soon as they goose-stepped down main street, we wouldn't even be having this conversation, would we?

So therefore, if you actually believed in the tenants of the First Amendment, you would not take the law into your own hands and want to go punch them.  Instead, you would feel like I, several others here, the ACLU, and on and one that despite being personally disgusted by the words being spoken and the message they stand for - they do have a right to say them right up to the point where they take action on their violent message.  Ergo, you hate the 1st Amendment, and rest of the constitution apparently, because you feel the gov't should be stopping this and because they are not - you're not only attempting to deny these shitstains their freedom of speech through violence but also their due process as well.  

As I've said many times here already.... you absolutely have the right to shout them down, block their path, stop them from marching in any non-violent way you can think of and deny them their free speech in that manner in ways that the gov't cannot.  And if they resort to violence, then you absolutely have the right to self-defense.  What you do NOT have the right to do is preemptively use violence to stop them.  

I yield the floor back to my esteemed colleague and the chairman may allocate my remaining minutes back to the chamber and I shall speak no further on this matter.  I took an oath to support and defend the constitution and that means ALL of it.  Not just the parts I agree with.  Trust me, it would be greatly satisfying to go to a neo-nazi rally and crack some skinhead's skulls with nightsticks.  But I happen to believe in that goddammed piece of paper.  

They can *speak* all they want. The beating and killing people stuff is what I object to.  I object strongly to the cops doing nothing about assault and murder. Note that Charlottsville PD utterly abandoned the field to Nazi violence, not Nazi speech.

 

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7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

See @A guy in the Chesapeake, this ^^ is what I was talking about in your PUI thread.  There can be no rational discourse here with people like this.  

blow it out your hypocritical ass jeff. You spew the same talking points every fucking thread, don't give a fuck about facts, and retreat when called on your bullshit. You aren't interested in rational discourse, you are interested in spewing bullshit.

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7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

  Numerous of you have stated that you hate that the cops stand around protecting these bags of nazi dicks

Guess you are going to lump me into your made up bullshit, aren't you?

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9 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

See @A guy in the Chesapeake, this ^^ is what I was talking about in your PUI thread.  There can be no rational discourse here with people like this.  

He's just making up his own responses to his own points.

Remind you of anyone?

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

They can *speak* all they want. The beating and killing people stuff is what I object to.  I object strongly to the cops doing nothing about assault and murder. Note that Charlottsville PD utterly abandoned the field to Nazi violence, not Nazi speech.

 

The cops have done nothing about assault and murder?  Really?  That's shocking.  Did the nazi in the car who killed Heather get away?

And how did the CPD abandon the field to nazi violence?  I didn't follow it closely at the time, so please can you provide some cites for that?  Thanks.

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9 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

And how did the CPD abandon the field to nazi violence?  I didn't follow it closely at the time, so please can you provide some cites for that?  Thanks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/charlottesville-response-to-white-supremacist-rally-sharply-criticized-in-new-report/2017/12/01/9c59fe98-d6a3-11e7-a986-d0a9770d9a3e_story.html

https://www.propublica.org/article/police-stood-by-as-mayhem-mounted-in-charlottesville

you really want to be willfully ignorant on this, don't you?

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23 hours ago, lasal said:

One, the fascist bigots are violent as hell and they beat unarmed non-violent counter protesters sometimes with police watching.

I keep hearing this over and over but I haven't seen it reported.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, but can you provide some cites for police standing around watching people getting beaten?  Thanks.

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18 hours ago, RKoch said:

Jeff likes guns. Nazis like guns. They're kinfolk.

I like guns.........does that make me a nazi as well?

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28 minutes ago, mad said:

I like guns.........does that make me a nazi as well?

Does  UK "gun culture" have the dark fringes of paranoia, survivalism, white supremacy and other whackjobery US gun culture has?

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Just now, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

from this side of the pond it doesn't seem UK "gun culture" as it were doesn't have the dark fringes of paranoia, survivalism, white supremacy and other  whackjobery US gun culture has.

Or as Tom would say, clearly the gungrabbers have won.

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I keep hearing this over and over but I haven't seen it reported.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, but can you provide some cites for police standing around watching people getting beaten?  Thanks.

Not beaten but yelled at.

https://www.newsweek.com/video-lesbian-couple-physically-threatened-homophobic-man-police-say-just-1027640

There was this one as well during Cheeto's campaign. Black guy gets sucker punched by Cheeto supporter. Black guy gets detained by police. It was celebrated by Cheeto's surrogates.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/video-black-protester-sucker-punched-at-trump-rally

There's more.

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12 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Does  UK "gun culture" have the dark fringes of paranoia, survivalism, white supremacy and other whackjobery US gun culture has?

There's a few of them about, as there is in every culture.

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8 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Not beaten but yelled at.

https://www.newsweek.com/video-lesbian-couple-physically-threatened-homophobic-man-police-say-just-1027640

There was this one as well during Cheeto's campaign. Black guy gets sucker punched by Cheeto supporter. Black guy gets detained by police. It was celebrated by Cheeto's surrogates.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/video-black-protester-sucker-punched-at-trump-rally

There's more.

I watched the video in your first example.  I didn't see any police standing around watching it happen.

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10 minutes ago, mad said:
22 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Does  UK "gun culture" have the dark fringes of paranoia, survivalism, white supremacy and other whackjobery US gun culture has?

There's a few of them about, as there is in every culture.

They also have London Antifa.

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:
On 7/27/2018 at 10:32 AM, lasal said:

One, the fascist bigots are violent as hell and they beat unarmed non-violent counter protesters sometimes with police watching.

I keep hearing this over and over but I haven't seen it reported.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, but can you provide some cites for police standing around watching people getting beaten?  Thanks.

When you address your punk comments about punching vegans and hipsters.

19 hours ago, lasal said:
19 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Sigh, never mind.  You all just don't get it.  I knew you guys hate the 2nd Amendment something fierce, but I never knew you all hated the 1st just as much.  I guess that constitution thing is just a god dammed piece of paper.

But fine, next time I'm back in the states - I'm going to round up some friends and go punch some vegans and hipsters.  Talk about scum of the earth.....  

That's exactly what the Proud Boys threaten to do, beat up vegans, vegetarians, gays, trans people, and hipsters. And that's exactly what Antifa steps in to counter-demonstrate against when they say it in the public square. One of the Proud Boy thugs, Tiny Toese pictured above and document attacking numerous people, is wearing a sweatshirt that says, "Standing for Freedom of Speech without the Threat of Violence." And he's a violent freak looking for fights and provoking them. You've bought right into their bullshit. Protecting the first amendment is not what you are doing. You kid yourself. And you sound like a punk. We get it.

 

19 hours ago, lasal said:

It's a punk ass thing to say that you're going to punch vegans and hipsters, especially as a bullshit rhetorical device comparing defending the street from Nazis to claim Antifa is merely punching people they don't like. It's punk moves like that that show where someone stands. What a weak little troll.

 

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

I keep hearing this over and over but I haven't seen it reported.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, but can you provide some cites for police standing around watching people getting beaten?  Thanks.

That was Charlottesville. Police were scared to do anything but watch or run away.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/us/charlottesville-protest-police.html

As White Nationalist in Charlottesville Fired, Police ‘Never Moved’

 

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. — As demonstrators clashed near a downtown park here two weeks ago, a white nationalist protester in a bulletproof vest turned, pointed a pistol toward the crowd and fired a single shot at the ground, in the direction of a black man wielding an improvised torch.

To make his escape, a video recording shows, the armed protester strolled past a line of about a dozen state police troopers who were safely positioned about 10 feet away behind two metal barricades. None of them budged.

“We all heard it and ran — I know damn well they heard it,” said Rosia Parker, a community activist in Charlottesville. “They never moved.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-in-charlottesville-criticized-for-slow-response-to-violent-demonstrations/2017/08/12/869720fc-7f84-11e7-a669-b400c5c7e1cc_story.html?utm_term=.96c792f41c0d

Cable news replayed a seemingly endless loop of the early violence at Emancipation Park, which police in riot gear had surrounded on three sides, although they seemed to watch as groups beat each other with sticks and bludgeoned one another with shields. Many on both sides came dressed for battle, with helmets and chemical irritants.

Cornel West, the prominent professor and writer who attended a morning church service at First Baptist Church in Charlottesville with a large group of clergy members, said “the police didn’t do anything in terms of protecting the people of the community, the clergy.”

West said that “if it hadn’t been for the anti-fascists protecting us from the neo-fascists, we would have been crushed like cockroaches.”

Not to be outdone, the Nazis were bitching too

Richard Spencer, the white nationalist and one of the leaders of the rally, said police failed to protect groups with which he is affiliated. “We came here as a demonstration of our movement,” Spencer said. “And we were effectively thrown to the wolves.” The police, he said, “did not protect us.”

 

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You could say the same thing about Stoneman Douglas.

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

He's just making up his own responses to his own points.

Remind you of anyone?

Been pointing out that same transition for a while now. Does the whole "tag and quote people on unrelated topics" shit as well. :rolleyes:

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How white supremacists split a quiet Rust Belt town

ULYSSES, Pa.— The traffic sign that greets visitors on the south side of Ulysses, a tiny town in rural far north-central Pennsylvania, is suitably quaint — a silhouette of a horse-drawn cart reminding drivers that the Amish use the roads, too. But on the north side of town, along the main thoroughfare, is a far different display: a home dedicated to Adolf Hitler, where star-spangled banners and Nazi flags flutter side by side and wooden swastikas stand on poles. 

White supremacy has had a continuous presence in Ulysses and surrounding Potter County since the Ku Klux Klan arrived a century ago, giving the town — with a population today of about 650 — improbable national significance. In the mid-2000s, it hosted the World Aryan Congress, a gathering of neo-Nazis, skinheads and Klan members. 

This year, after a sting operation, federal prosecutors charged six members of an Aryan Strike Force cell with weapons and drug offenses, contending that they had plotted a suicide attack at an anti-racism protest. A terminally ill member was willing to hide a bomb in his oxygen tank and blow himself up, prosecutors said. The group had met and conducted weapons training in Ulysses. 

Neo-Nazis and their opponents here say that white extremists have grown more confident — and confrontational — since the rise of Donald Trump. Two months before the 2016 presidential election, the KKK established a “24 hour Klan Line” and sent goody bags containing lollipops and fliers to hundreds of homes. “You can sleep tonight knowing the Klan is awake,” the message read. A regional newspaper ran Klan advertisements saying, “God bless the KKK.” 

Local police said the group had not openly recruited in years. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/how-white-supremacists-split-a-quiet-rust-belt-town/ar-BBLbDtL?li=BBnb7Kz

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On 7/28/2018 at 4:20 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

NO, it doesn't work that way.  That's the very definition of vigilantism.  

Hey @jocal505, are you tracking on this???  Is your vigilante radar not flashing red right now?  How can you condone this with your silence when you have loudly stated for years that the mere act of a woman passively carrying a concealed gun in her handbag to go to work is a vigilante act and promotes a violence mentality????  

Yet you support self defense laws.

 

Of course,  you don't see the similarities. .......

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16 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:
On 7/28/2018 at 10:20 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

NO, it doesn't work that way.  That's the very definition of vigilantism.  

Hey @jocal505, are you tracking on this???  Is your vigilante radar not flashing red right now?  How can you condone this with your silence when you have loudly stated for years that the mere act of a woman passively carrying a concealed gun in her handbag to go to work is a vigilante act and promotes a violence mentality????  

Yet you support self defense laws.

 

Of course,  you don't see the similarities. .......

Yes I do.  The sad part is you don't see the differences.  Self-defense != vigilantism.

Go look it up.  Google is your friend.

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10 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yes I do.  The sad part is you don't see the differences.  Self-defense != vigilantism.

Go look it up.  Google is your friend.

"Who started it" actually matters. 

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1 minute ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
12 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yes I do.  The sad part is you don't see the differences.  Self-defense != vigilantism.

Go look it up.  Google is your friend.

"Who started it" actually matters. 

Exactly.  A woman who carries a concealed carry gun on the off-chance that she gets attacked one night on the way home from work and has to defend herself is a vastly different animal from a masked person who go around and sucker punches people they don't agree with. 

@jocal505 thinks the woman minding her own business is a vigilante with a violent mindset but has been conspicuously mute on the masked person who goes around and cracks peoples head's because they disagree with their politics.  

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7 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

gunning down someone who pushed you is a vigilante move.

It depends on the circumstances.  If the person who pushed you was one of a group who were circling and ready to join in on stomping you?  I'd think that you'd have a pretty good self-defense case.  If the shove came after two people had been shouting "You Suck" for the past 15 minutes?  You'd have a hard time proving self-defense, and whoever hit first would be criminally culpable.  

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Nazi flag found flying at Wyoming public park

A Nazi flag was found flying at a public park in Laramie, Wyoming, this week. 

Police said they were alerted to the flag’s presence Monday morning, where they found the American flag that usually sits atop the flagpole lying crumpled on the ground, according to CNN. 

Lieutenant Gwen Smith of the Laramie Police Department told CNN that police folded the American flag properly and saluted it before returning it to the top of the flagpole. 

Smith said there was no evidence of a crime such as damage to the U.S. flag or flagpole, and that the person who alerted police of the flag said they did not see who raised the Nazi flag. 

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/400002-nazi-flag-found-flying-at-wyoming-public-park 
 

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Deranged redhats...

Unhinged conservative conspiracy theory goes mainstream at Trump’s Tampa rally

QAnon has arrived. Welcome to the hellscape.

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-tampa-rally-qanon-conspiracy-goes-mainstream-68037c87f50b/

If there were any doubts the QAnon conspiracy has gone fully mainstream, Trump’s rally in Tampa Tuesday put at an end to them.

Supporters of the pro-Trump, far-right theory were clearly visible both in the lines outside the rally and inside the exposition hall. They carried signs demanding answers to debunked conspiracy theories, joined regular Trump supporters in heckling the media and proudly rocked QAnon t-shirts and hats — because what’s a conspiracy theory without someone being able to profit off it?

QAnon follows on in similar style from last year’s infamous Pizzagate conspiracy theory. But while Pizzagate focused its ire on one small pizzeria in Northwest Washington, the QAnon conspiracy theory is much more far-reaching, claiming that a global Deep State cabal is responsible for most of the world’s evil, and that Trump, along with Robert Mueller, are working to deliver sealed indictments and ship everyone from Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) to George Soros to Hillary Clinton off to Guantanamo Bay.

The expansive nature of the QAnon theory — it involves everything from banking conspiracies to claims of Satanic Abuse and supposed child sex trafficking by Democratic lawmakers and public figures — means that smaller theories can be adopted into the fold as offshoots. For example, over the last two months in Arizona, a group called Veterans on Patrol has been “investigating” what they claim is an abandoned “child sex camp” tied to QAnon, and have been harassing public officials who say that those claims are bogus.

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I was just about to post a link to that story, RKoch. The level of insanity amongst the die-hard supporters of Trump is mind-boggling.

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18 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

I was just about to post a link to that story, RKoch. The level of insanity amongst the die-hard supporters of Trump is mind-boggling.

I think they chewed on lead paint chips when they were children. They some kind of batshit cra-cra.

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4 minutes ago, RKoch said:

I think they chewed on lead paint chips when they were children. They some kind of batshit cra-cra.

they don't believe it, they just think Q-Anon very thought provoking.

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On 7/30/2018 at 11:54 PM, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

gunning down someone who pushed you is a vigilante move.

What if the guy who pushed you down is a nazi?  It’s ok to gun him down then, right?

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Why wait until they push you?

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19 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

What if the guy who pushed you down is a nazi?  It’s ok to gun him down then, right?

 

14 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Why wait until they push you?

That's a great question.  So you think its ok to gun down nazis before they commit violence?

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8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's a great question.  So you think its ok to gun down nazis before they commit violence?

Depends...how well can one hide the body? Not a moral problem, just a legal problem.

"Before they commit violence?" WTF? We are already at "After".

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8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

 

That's a great question.  So you think its ok to gun down nazis before they commit violence?

Once they wave a white flag and hold their hands up its ok to stop shooting, and escort them to prison. 

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12 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's a great question.  So you think its ok to gun down nazis before they commit violence?

No but it is O/K to gun down humourless gits.

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3 hours ago, RKoch said:

Once they wave a white flag and hold their hands up its ok to stop shooting, and escort them to prison. 

There is precedent for refusing to accept their surrender.

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25 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

There is precedent for refusing to accept their surrender.

Yeah baby. Prison already has enough of them anyway. 

 

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57 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Yeah baby. Prison already has enough of them anyway. 

 

Vacancies at Gitmo. Good place for Nazis who aren't shot.

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9 hours ago, daddle said:
17 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

 

That's a great question.  So you think its ok to gun down nazis before they commit violence?

Depends...how well can one hide the body? Not a moral problem, just a legal problem.

"Before they commit violence?" WTF? We are already at "After".

Bingo

Nazis are advocating and inciting violence, and part of their doctrine is that their adversaries are fearful and weak. Busting their heads is just one logical way to prove them wrong.

Jeff, if a person was yelling that he was going to burn down your house, and carrying a can of gas and matches, would you wait until he poured out the gas around your foundation and lit a match before you'd stop him?

"Freedom of speech" does not give you the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater (That's a quote BTW)

-DSK

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4 hours ago, RKoch said:

Vacancies at Gitmo. Good place for Nazis who aren't shot.

I was thinking in tents at Yucca Mtn but i am totally against providing food and shelter to Unamericans while there are clean and sober homeless folks in actual need.

Wonder if we could get some good out of MS13 and urban homies with some bounties on Nazis? It could be like a game like Viet Nam where we come home to the tv reporting on the daily body count. 

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31 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Bingo

Nazis are advocating and inciting violence, and part of their doctrine is that their adversaries are fearful and weak. Busting their heads is just one logical way to prove them wrong.

Jeff, if a person was yelling that he was going to burn down your house, and carrying a can of gas and matches, would you wait until he poured out the gas around your foundation and lit a match before you'd stop him?

"Freedom of speech" does not give you the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater (That's a quote BTW)

-DSK

Only if they were white supremacists. Then he would give them the benefit of the doubt. Doubt only he understands.

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4 hours ago, RKoch said:

Vacancies at Gitmo. Good place for Nazis who aren't shot.

Reminds me when Michael Moore went to Gitmo in the movie Sicko. He was trying to get the same health care for 911 responders as detainees.

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Are these assholes being treated as the terrorists they are?

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