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9 hours ago, 3to1 said:
9 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Actually, most fishermen I've ever seen are heedless fuckwipes that take the environment for granted, their engines dump oil in the water and they toss shit overboard freely.

Wanna hear how many times I've had conversations with fishermen about not stripping their tangled monofilament and just dropping it any old where?

-DSK

the discarded line is very, very common from so many of these simple cunts. the ugly disrespect is vulgar, and it says so much.

I have told this story before, but I'm an old cunt and we like to retell stories.

The short version.

50 (or so) Nm off the north Queensland coast anchored on a secret sea mount.  We caught a shit-load (that's a lot) of pink fish in 70m of water until the sharks eventually took every fish we hooked.  They circled below on the very edge of visibility waiting for another easy feed.  There are two choices when that happens.  The first is to catch a shark and chop its tail off before releasing it.  All sharks will immediately disappear and you can resume fishing, it works.  The other easier option is to go home. 

The skipper and owner was the son of a sugar cane farmer, now working in an open cut coal mine getting too much money that allowed him to buy a flash fast boat.   As he was preparing to hoist the anchor I started cleaning up the fishing boat and that included the plastic bait bags that littered the floor that were about to blow overboard as we did 35 knots home.  As I stuffed the plastic bags into a side pocket net I turned around to find him looking at me.  He purposely went to the bags I had stashed, grabbed them, threw them over the side while looking me in the eyes smiling as he said "that's for the fucking turtles".

I had known the guy since I started working but I don't have anything to do with him anymore.

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13 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Actually, most fishermen I've ever seen are heedless fuckwipes that take the environment for granted, their engines dump oil in the water and they toss shit overboard freely.

Wanna hear how many times I've had conversations with fishermen about not stripping their tangled monofilament and just dropping it any old where?

-DSK

That damned monofilament. If it's not exposed to sunlight, say under some vegetation on the bank, or in the water or mud, it is essentially there forever, until it will tangle up some poor animal, five, ten years inthefuture.

I'm not sure if fishermen are worse than hunters, I think they are not. But rather that the water environment doesn't bury carelessness the way the soil environment does.

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16 minutes ago, mikewof said:

That damned monofilament. If it's not exposed to sunlight, say under some vegetation on the bank, or in the water or mud, it is essentially there forever, until it will tangle up some poor animal, five, ten years inthefuture.

I'm not sure if fishermen are worse than hunters, I think they are not. But rather that the water environment doesn't bury carelessness the way the soil environment does.

We've got education programs going on here and have monofilament collection points at all public boat ramps.  I do see them being used and thank those I see using them but I still see lazy bastards dumping it by the ramp and driving away.

 

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23 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Most curious. So 10,000 cars driving at highway speeds for 1 hour produce more CO2 that 10,000 cars driving in say LA or NYC at 5 MPH? I find that distorted. 

High pollution concentration = good,

Low pollution widely dispersed = bad.

Thank you, I must be terribly confused, but with your help I should be coming around soon.

 

There are two solutions to pollution.   Dilution is the standard answer, but with 7.6 billion of us that is no longer practical.    The other is the dust bin theory.    Instead of spreading the dirt all over the kitchen floor, you concentrate it in a small area where it is easier to deal with.   

Cars are bad, but convenient. They are pretty much essential for a trailer sailor.   Cars in city gridlock are bad and (IMO) inconvenient.    Public transportation is much more efficient.  Acres of asphalt allowing people to park their SUV for 9 hours after the hour long 12 mile commute is pretty stupid urban planning.    There are few places (aside from small towns) where walking or biking is an option for errands.     

 

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16 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Absolutely, the best way to clean up the environment is to stop using it as  a dump.  Proven in Lake Erie and the Thames River.

Right now, Florida is so shit scared of the Zika virus they are spraying everywhere to kill mosquitoes.  There is a downside per Cornell University.  Kill them all isn't really a good solution.

Yep, the conservation approach, with generally uncontroversial basic biology and ecology, makes its own case most of the time.

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58 minutes ago, Lark said:

There are two solutions to pollution.   Dilution is the standard answer, but with 7.6 billion of us that is no longer practical.    The other is the dust bin theory.    Instead of spreading the dirt all over the kitchen floor, you concentrate it in a small area where it is easier to deal with.  

For example, allowing pig farm lagoons or coal ash piles to be predictably flooded and diluted onto the landscape and into the waterways.

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3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

We've got education programs going on here and have monofilament collection points at all public boat ramps.  I do see them being used and thank those I see using them but I still see lazy bastards dumping it by the ramp and driving away.

 

Here in NC there are a number of collection points also but I dunno what percent use them..... small, I think. But every little improvement is good. I have also gone out of my way to say good things to fishermen I see using it.

 

3 hours ago, mikewof said:

That damned monofilament. If it's not exposed to sunlight, say under some vegetation on the bank, or in the water or mud, it is essentially there forever, until it will tangle up some poor animal, five, ten years inthefuture.

I'm not sure if fishermen are worse than hunters, I think they are not. But rather that the water environment doesn't bury carelessness the way the soil environment does.

I'm pretty sure fishermen are worse than hunters..... at least, around here. In places where you can drive your truck along a country road, then get up in your stand/chair in the back and shoot from the road, it might be different. Around here hunters have to at least walk in the woods; it engages them a little bt with nature.

Fishermen ride around in a nice comfy boat, with their ham biscuits and beer, tossing whatever litter or trash. My standard method of dealing with asshole fishermen by the sailing club or by our neighborhood is to ask to see their license. They usually GTFO promptly. OTOH I have also had some nice conversations with a few. I don't mind people fishing in our creek, but I don't see the point in letting them fuck it up. I especially don't see the point in letting them damage my boat or leave trash on my dock (or my neighbors...... happens just about weekly).

-DSK

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7 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

That said, I hunted for most of my life. I've known (and had the good luck to hunt with) most hunters that were VERY environmentally conscious and were among the best field observers I've ever known. Some are just interested in shooting stuff, though.

Does throwing polluting waste into the swamp count as environmentally conscious or not?

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7 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

You need to quit hanging with lowlife poachers.     ...    ...    ...

 

I have never hung out with low life poachers, other than the ones I was running off my family's land...... not exactly a social occasion

-DSK

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On ‎9‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 6:36 PM, 3to1 said:

,,,, cause I don't go into the 'woods' like elmer fudd and blow the shit out the residents (not to mention traumatize) like some hobbyist murderer ,,,

I love this place I love this place I love this place I love this place I love this place 

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11 hours ago, random said:

I have told this story before, but I'm an old cunt and we like to retell stories.

The short version.

50 (or so) Nm off the north Queensland coast anchored on a secret sea mount.  We caught a shit-load (that's a lot) of pink fish in 70m of water until the sharks eventually took every fish we hooked.  They circled below on the very edge of visibility waiting for another easy feed.  There are two choices when that happens.  The first is to catch a shark and chop its tail off before releasing it.  All sharks will immediately disappear and you can resume fishing, it works.  The other easier option is to go home. 

The skipper and owner was the son of a sugar cane farmer, now working in an open cut coal mine getting too much money that allowed him to buy a flash fast boat.   As he was preparing to hoist the anchor I started cleaning up the fishing boat and that included the plastic bait bags that littered the floor that were about to blow overboard as we did 35 knots home.  As I stuffed the plastic bags into a side pocket net I turned around to find him looking at me.  He purposely went to the bags I had stashed, grabbed them, threw them over the side while looking me in the eyes smiling as he said "that's for the fucking turtles".

I had known the guy since I started working but I don't have anything to do with him anymore.

godamn, the pos should've got gaffed.

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2 hours ago, Mike in Seattle said:

I love this place I love this place I love this place I love this place I love this place 

it's the kook who posts pictures of charred snakes and claims 'environmentalists' do more harm than good, then goes out and kills sentient beings that have no voice. sit down you giant toddler.

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2 hours ago, 3to1 said:

it's the kook who posts pictures of charred snakes and claims 'environmentalists' do more harm than good, then goes out and kills sentient beings that have no voice. sit down you giant toddler.

Just for the sake of accuracy, sentience is a specific thing, the animal has to be self-aware, and there is a specific test to determine sentience, the mirror test, with food, and if the animal can realize that the reflection that it sees is itself, then it can access the food. Most animals don't pass the test, some do, like humans, apes, a few dogs, most pigs, one elephant, dolphins, whales, amazingly, magpies.

I choose not to eat mammals, but I have no idea how to approach the idea of protecting animals with sentience. Yeah, it's a no brainer to protect humans and apes, but wild hogs are essentially sentient, and they're multiplying in hot climates like mad.

Anyway, in my opinion it's far more humane to eat meet that is hunted in a responsible manner than to eat meat from a factory farming operation, and a lot better for the environment. The rise of CWD has been linked to feces dropped and then uptaken in grass, originally from infected factory-farmed cattle.

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6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
9 hours ago, Saorsa said:

We've got education programs going on here and have monofilament collection points at all public boat ramps.  I do see them being used and thank those I see using them but I still see lazy bastards dumping it by the ramp and driving away.

 

Here in NC there are a number of collection points also but I dunno what percent use them..... small, I think. But every little improvement is good. I have also gone out of my way to say good things to fishermen I see using it.

I wonder what your basis is for the bolded?

I ask because I see little tolerance for poaching or polluting, especially on the water. But there's still trash to pick up on beach cleanup days.

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6 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
14 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

That said, I hunted for most of my life. I've known (and had the good luck to hunt with) most hunters that were VERY environmentally conscious and were among the best field observers I've ever known. Some are just interested in shooting stuff, though.

Does throwing polluting waste into the swamp count as environmentally conscious or not?

I assume you're asking about the PT wood from my old dock?

I'd say no, but neither does landfilling it. And burning it is out, illegal for good reasons in all states.

Do you think it's better in a landfill? I think it might be, but might not. I have about 7 or 8 acres of swamp - nature's filter. And a pile of PT boards that have to be somewhere. Any ideas?

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2 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:
6 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Here in NC there are a number of collection points also but I dunno what percent use them..... small, I think. But every little improvement is good. I have also gone out of my way to say good things to fishermen I see using it.

I wonder what your basis is for the bolded? 

I ask because I see little tolerance for poaching or polluting, especially on the water. But there's still trash to pick up on beach cleanup days.

I see a lot of fishermen, and go months at a time without seeing anyone using the line collection points. Maybe 1% but probably not even that many.

-DSK

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6 minutes ago, dogballs Tom said:

I assume you're asking about the PT wood from my old dock?

I'd say no, but neither does landfilling it. And burning it is out, illegal for good reasons in all states.

Do you think it's better in a landfill? I think it might be, but might not. I have about 7 or 8 acres of swamp - nature's filter. And a pile of PT boards that have to be somewhere. Any ideas?

Concentrate waste for now and future, or not.

You either learn, or you rely on good 'ole boy dumbfuckery.

I'm just laughing at your pretensions asshole.

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

 

Anyway, in my opinion it's far more humane to eat meet that is hunted in a responsible manner than to eat meat from a factory farming operation, and a lot better for the environment. The rise of CWD has been linked to feces dropped and then uptaken in grass, originally from infected factory-farmed cattle.

I can't argue with that. take only what you 'need'.

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2 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

I assume you're asking about the PT wood from my old dock?

I'd say no, but neither does landfilling it. And burning it is out, illegal for good reasons in all states.

Do you think it's better in a landfill? I think it might be, but might not. I have about 7 or 8 acres of swamp - nature's filter. And a pile of PT boards that have to be somewhere. Any ideas?

Landfills are monitored for groundwater issues and lined to minimize seepage.  One by me was forced to close due to issues.   

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8 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I see a lot of fishermen, and go months at a time without seeing anyone using the line collection points. Maybe 1% but probably not even that many.

-DSK

I have never used one. So if you see me pull my boat out, you might assume I tossed my line in the water. Actually, I installed a cool trash can on my fishing boat. Do you check for those or just assume?

6 hours ago, Lark said:

Landfills are monitored for groundwater issues and lined to minimize seepage.  One by me was forced to close due to issues.   

I know they're lined and monitored but also know they have those "issues" you mentioned. I figure I have a pile of junk wood and it's a problem and any solution is just going to dump the problem on future generations. Trying to guess what they might want may not be a good idea. When my dad was young, any sensible person KNEW that the only reasonable thing to do with a giant swamp was to drain and farm the thing. Yeah. Great idea, guys.

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9 hours ago, mikewof said:

Yeah, it's a no brainer to protect humans and apes, but wild hogs are essentially sentient, and they're multiplying in hot climates like mad.

That is an interesting corundum if you use 'sentience' as a reason for conservation. 

 

9 hours ago, mikewof said:

Anyway, in my opinion it's far more humane to eat meet that is hunted in a responsible manner than to eat meat from a factory farming operation, and a lot better for the environment. The rise of CWD has been linked to feces dropped and then uptaken in grass, originally from infected factory-farmed cattle.

I'm personally of the mind that any herd of animals that are kept in such a way that they are uniquely and irrevocably dependent upon antibiotics for survival is bad.  Concentrated factory farming of livestock really does need to take a step back from the precipice.  That little Johnny didn't take all his 40 pills of penicillin for strep pales in comparison to what's done in the name of a cheep rib eye or pulled pork sandwitch.  Not that they're not tasty - but we're not helping ourselves in the long run by hiding the true costs of a McRib.

 

 

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3 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:
11 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I see a lot of fishermen, and go months at a time without seeing anyone using the line collection points. Maybe 1% but probably not even that many.

-DSK

I have never used one. So if you see me pull my boat out, you might assume I tossed my line in the water. Actually, I installed a cool trash can on my fishing boat. Do you check for those or just assume?

Generally when I see a fisherman strip a a couple handfuls of line off his rod and toss it in the water, I assume he's not using the line collectors.

-DSK

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3 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

I have never used one. So if you see me pull my boat out, you might assume I tossed my line in the water. Actually, I installed a cool trash can on my fishing boat. Do you check for those or just assume?

I know they're lined and monitored but also know they have those "issues" you mentioned. I figure I have a pile of junk wood and it's a problem and any solution is just going to dump the problem on future generations. Trying to guess what they might want may not be a good idea. When my dad was young, any sensible person KNEW that the only reasonable thing to do with a giant swamp was to drain and farm the thing. Yeah. Great idea, guys.

Concentrate the waste for future generations in a location where it will be monitored, or randomly dump the shit "because it doesn't really matter". Which one has a longer history of providing unforeseen problems? This isn't a difficult problem to think through. It's one with a pretty clearly proven answer

Just like it's really not hard to see fisherman throwing trash in the water or on the ground and leaving the area as being polluters

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30 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:
3 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:
12 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I see a lot of fishermen, and go months at a time without seeing anyone using the line collection points. Maybe 1% but probably not even that many.

-DSK

I have never used one. So if you see me pull my boat out, you might assume I tossed my line in the water. Actually, I installed a cool trash can on my fishing boat. Do you check for those or just assume?

Generally when I see a fisherman strip a a couple handfuls of line off his rod and toss it in the water, I assume he's not using the line collectors.

-DSK

I agree, but seeing them toss line in the water is different from not seeing the collection receptacles used. If that's what you meant, maybe you should have said so.

My response would be to take pictures, send them to FWC, and post them on Facebook because it's a small town. But I've never actually seen someone do that.

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4 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Concentrate the waste for future generations in a location where it will be monitored, or randomly dump the shit "because it doesn't really matter". Which one has a longer history of providing unforeseen problems? This isn't a difficult problem to think through.

Well, OK, but check back over in GA. I just mentioned the REALLY big pile of waste wood.

They're gonna be pissed if I haul that out to the curb and call for pickup.

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7 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

I agree, but seeing them toss line in the water is different from not seeing the collection receptacles used. If that's what you meant, maybe you should have said so.

My response would be to take pictures, send them to FWC, and post them on Facebook because it's a small town. But I've never actually seen someone do that.

I just see the beer cans, energy drinks, line, and bait buckets bobbing around by the dozens when canoeing  or poking my nose into some little inlet.    I assume the flotsam wasn't the remains of a sunken bassboat, the crew valiantly going down with the craft trying to collect all their debris to save the ecosystem.   I also assume they didn't come off a sailboat.   I'm ignoring the snares for snapping turtles, marked with a floating pop bottle.

I saw a truck pulled out of the water after the failed launch of a jonboat once, the transmission slipped in park.   It was 20 feet deep at the bottom of the ramp, so rescue guys had hooked a rope to the front and one rode it up half in the cab.   I think he was steering it to keep it from hitting the dock.    It emerged like a submarine coming to the surface,  antenna visible first like a periscope.   The diver  was covered head to tow in fish line that had been floating around the cab.   Its obvious how the geese end up fatally trapped.   Around here Canadian geese are like deer, overpopulated and out of balance from an unhealthy ecosystem.   I still hate to see one slowly dying, hobbling away from attempts at aid for days until it is too weak to move.   

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42 minutes ago, Lark said:

I just see the beer cans, energy drinks, line, and bait buckets bobbing around by the dozens when canoeing  or poking my nose into some little inlet.    I assume the flotsam wasn't the remains of a sunken bassboat, the crew valiantly going down with the craft trying to collect all their debris to save the ecosystem.   I also assume they didn't come off a sailboat. 

It may come as a surprise to you, but "blowboaters" as they call us do sometimes drink beer and some are assholes who then toss the can overboard.

As with fishermen, I don't think it's a majority by any means. But as with fishermen, it does happen.

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21 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

I assume you're asking about the PT wood from my old dock?

I'd say no, but neither does landfilling it. And burning it is out, illegal for good reasons in all states.

Do you think it's better in a landfill? I think it might be, but might not. I have about 7 or 8 acres of swamp - nature's filter. And a pile of PT boards that have to be somewhere. Any ideas?

Got a wood chipper??  If anything,, itll take up less space in the landfill.  

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1 minute ago, dogballs Tom said:

It may come as a surprise to you, but "blowboaters" as they call us do sometimes drink beer and some are assholes who then toss the can overboard.

As with fishermen, I don't think it's a majority by any means. But as with fishermen, it does happen.

Water Enthusiasts that should be declared droits of the harbor master.

Jetskiers top the scum list.  I'm not being fair to them.  I just dislike listening to weedwackers and chainsaws while sailing.   It makes me feel like I'm trapped in suburbia.   

Shore fishermen are also beneath contempt.   They fish 20 feet from their truck, but cannot carry their trash out with them.   I'm sure that pile of Asian carp left rotting on shore will scare the rest of the fish back to China.   

Small boat fishermen are next, since I really dislike paddling or sailing around their trash.  Probably 10% contribute 90% of the trash and spread the zebra muscles.  I also grudgingly admit to having lost a water bottle in a capsize and a sandal in another.  I've lost several hats to gusts.  I currently use a straw hat or the one with a chin strap made out of recycled bottles, having learned my lesson.  Since Styrofoam bait containers, busted coolers, beer cans, and fish line persist for so long the 10% make sure they are long loathed.   I do admire the efficiency of the tournament bass guys at the ramp.   They can launch or trailer the entire fleet while I fold my sail.   

Twice a season powerboaters have to come in as almost worthy of the tow they get when their engine fails.    The time spent scrubbing oil slick off my hull is reason enough  for their listing.    I don't really want to hear their favorite music half way across the lake.   There is no need to hear some couple argue with each other as they attempt the difficult maneuver of backing a trailer or squeezing their boat into that 'tiny' 50 foot gap at the courtesy dock.   One short and one long is not the correct signal to a sailboat they intend to cut off from the starboard as they believe they are the stand on vessel.   Its coincidentally the same signal they use to get the kids to come back at the beach.  They are partially redeemed by the entertaining arguments they give DNR about why the registration expired in 2015 but it wasn't their fault.

East Coast Racing snobs complete the list of those that should be banned.   Hyper intense hyper aggressive wall-street attitudes on a sailing boat give the rest of us a bad name and completely taint the dockside atmosphere.  They are not better because for two hours they turn off their motors and sail a big boat around a couple markers.   Racers I've met inland seem to realize they are not white glove yachters with America's Cup abilities, so they get a pass.   I may be biased by a bad experience with a yacht club in North Carolina, but fuck them all.

Overloaded bayliners that cannot see you because the bow is at a 30' angle as they chug half way across the lake trying to reach a plane are annoying but forgivable as long as they turn in time.   Its hard to see the stationary fishing boats through my jib as well.  

Finally that leaves the floating light bulb, with so many lights of so many colors I have no idea which end is the bow.   

 

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Hah! I made the top three of your list!

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I threw in the yacht club just so you wouldn’t feel picked on.  :D

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24 minutes ago, Lark said:

I threw in the yacht club just so you wouldn’t feel picked on.  :D

Thanks

Wanna PM me which one it is? Or just out the bastards, I don't have a dog in the fight (or perhaps I have a dog in every corner)

-DSK

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12 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Thanks

Wanna PM me which one it is? Or just out the bastards, I don't have a dog in the fight (or perhaps I have a dog in every corner)

-DSK

They were a visiting club at an around the cans race in Edenton three or four years ago.   I don't know where on the Abermarle they were out of, somewhere within an easy afternoon's motor I'm sure.  Some of the boats were actually modest, but their attitude was quite snobbish and annoying.   They somehow got exclusive rights to the city marina, and were horrified a rather nice runabout had tied up to visit a restaurant.   They called it derelict and were threatening to cut it lose when the owner was found and chased out.  They came in with all the commotion of an armada returning with Spanish treasure and possessed the attitude of gated community residents who disliked having to associate with those not of their lofty station.  Due to poor communication I got stuck tied to the wall listening to them ignore us "peasants".     My girlfriend was turned off to sailors completely, until she met the other end of the spectrum (actually mostly motorboaters) who helped her recover from seasickness at a modest Michigan marina with great generosity and compassion.   The fact she wasn't white may or may not have influenced the way she was treated in the restroom.   Between the rude people in North Carolina and the seasickness on Michigan, I now find myself cruising solo.

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11 minutes ago, Lark said:

They were a visiting club at an around the cans race in Edenton three or four years ago.   I don't know where on the Abermarle they were out of, somewhere within an easy afternoon's motor I'm sure.  Some of the boats were actually modest, but their attitude was quite snobbish and annoying.   They somehow got exclusive rights to the city marina, and were horrified a rather nice runabout had tied up to visit a restaurant.   They called it derelict and were threatening to cut it lose when the owner was found and chased out.  They came in with all the commotion of an armada returning with Spanish treasure and possessed the attitude of gated community residents who disliked having to associate with those not of their lofty station.  Due to poor communication I got stuck tied to the wall listening to them ignore us "peasants".     My girlfriend was turned off to sailors completely, until she met the other end of the spectrum (actually mostly motorboaters) who helped her recover from seasickness at a modest Michigan marina with great generosity and compassion.   The fact she wasn't white may or may not have influenced the way she was treated in the restroom.   Between the rude people in North Carolina and the seasickness on Michigan, I now find myself cruising solo.

Hah!

For the record, I'm pretty sure I know who that bunch would be. They do live in eastern NC but are all Yankee imports. They don't like the natives here, either

-DSK

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30 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hah!

For the record, I'm pretty sure I know who that bunch would be. They do live in eastern NC but are all Yankee imports. They don't like the natives here, either

-DSK

I'll allow southern hospitality to remain untarnished, based on your spirited defense.   :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Lark said:

I'll allow southern hospitality to remain untarnished, based on your spirited defense.   :lol:

Y'all come see us, 'K?

BTW I forgot to say "bless their hearts."

But if you do come down for a visit in the winter, you'll probably have some good sailing

-DSK

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Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Y'all come see us, 'K?

BTW I forgot to say "bless their hearts."

But if you do come down for a visit in the winter, you'll probably have some good sailing

-DSK

I want to come down to the Wilmington area next March, before my Uncle gives up and moves back to Cleveland.  Should I bring the Bucc?   He's one of those cursed Yankees that retired down there thinking the weather was nicer.   Aside from hurricanes and summertime, it is.   I'll ask him if he brought his snowblower.   At least his house was fine.   He picked a fight with the nearby trailer park and ended up having to share the dock he built with anybody else that wanted to use it, so aside from his neighbor, he's not very fond of the locals.  It likely goes both ways. 

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15 minutes ago, Lark said:

I want to come down to the Wilmington area next March, before my Uncle gives up and moves back to Cleveland.  Should I bring the Bucc?   He's one of those cursed Yankees that retired down there thinking the weather was nicer.   Aside from hurricanes and summertime, it is.   I'll ask him if he brought his snowblower.   At least his house was fine.   He picked a fight with the nearby trailer park and ended up having to share the dock he built with anybody else that wanted to use it, so aside from his neighbor, he's not very fond of the locals.  It likely goes both ways. 

I can see that. Wilmington is a big city, not much waterfront either. Slips and dock space very expensive by comparison. Around here, it's easy to find a piece of un-used waterfront and get access (but this is changing even as we speak). Plus there are a couple of fairly nice parks with ramps and docks.

Glad to hear your uncle's house came out OK. Definitely bring the Bucc.

-DSK

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Posted (edited)

H. R. 6784   https://naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/hr_6784.pdf
To provide for removal of the gray wolf in the contiguous 48 States from the List of Endangered and Threatened Wildlife published under the Endangered Species Act of 1973

 

edit to add letter from WDFW requesting delist 

https://newhouse.house.gov/sites/newhouse.house.gov/files/WADFW Gray Wolf Delisting Support 5.15.18.pdf

Edited by Mike in Seattle
add linky

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damn straight, kill the fucking wolves because you love the environment! sad sack troll defending the dipshit ranchers of WA in their unscientific culture war. Fucking morons.

I fully expect a smug, illiterate, incoherent reply from Mike.

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Posted (edited)

The letter from WDFW requesting delist

https://newhouse.house.gov/sites/newhouse.house.gov/files/WADFW Gray Wolf Delisting Support 5.15.18.pdf


Pg 2 Bullet Point


Wolves are recovering in Washington State
In 2008 the first wolf pack was documented in Washington State.
Today we have 22 known wolf packs.
During this time, the state's wolf population has increased by an average of more than 30 percent per year.
We want to have consistent management of wolves across the state of Washington.

 

 

Edit to add 2017 Map from https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/

pack_map_033018.jpg

Edited by Mike in Seattle
Map

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damn straight kill the wolves because that huge population of 122+/- killed a grand total of 8 cows last year. The wolves you want delisted in Western Washington total 14 individuals in 4 packs (the eastern ones were already delisted so you cretins could kill them)

It takes a fool, an idiot, or just an urban dweller, not to see that predator "management" as extirpation in the west.

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Quote

,,,

Wolves have been actively hunted since 8,000 to 10,000 years ago, when they first began to pose a threat to livestock vital for the survival of Neolithic human communities.[2] Historically, the hunting of wolves was a huge capital- and manpower-intensive operation. The threat wolves posed to both livestock and people was considered significant enough to warrant the conscription of whole villages under threat of punishment, despite the disruption of economic activities and reduced taxes.

,,,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_hunting

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awww Elmer Pud is scared of wolves. Harden the fuck up, your fat ass ain't in any danger.

you think your smart posting this stupid shit that plays well to the rest of the shoot shit stupids.

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I was worried that I hadn't been smug, illiterate, and incoherent enough to be understandable to "environmentalists"  without using pictograms.

I haven't been into Teanaway area, but hunters have been reporting wolves in there for many years. Seems that each was informed that "hunters are too stupid to tell the difference between a 'yote and wolf".  Through social media,  all of the Teanaway  area hunters learned they all had exactly the same "stupid",, so the word went out, 

Quote

Hey, boys, thar's some really bigass 'yotes in the Teanaway

Within the week WDFW announced the "discovery of a new wolf pack"

The places I go have one report in game dept's  page, but that guy was probably stupid too.

 

41 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

awww Elmer Pud is scared of wolves

 

:)   I have been Spirit Questing.  Wolf Brother wants to Gift me his Coat so my skinny ass doesn't get cold.

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We've really got it pretty easy in the US managing large predators. And, if we were to allocate more pasture land to buffalo and elk and slowly reduced cow herds we could have better quality meat and better quality natural landscapes with herbivores that can better defend themselves.

If South Africa can work hard to preserve lion and rhino and elephant and black mambas we can preserve wolf and grizzly and sage grouse and a few fat rattlers. (the snakes were included for their don't tread on me nature which might appeal to some)

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17 hours ago, lasal said:

And, if we were to allocate more pasture land to buffalo and elk and slowly reduced cow herds we could have better quality meat and better quality natural landscapes with herbivores that can better defend themselves.

My neighbor went out west a couple of years ago and brought me back an ilk backstrap, which was delicious.

And it darn well should be, at $38.95 a pound.

The North American Ilk Breeders say you can make money raising them, but mostly by selling antlers and babies, not meat, apparently.

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22 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

awww Elmer Pud is scared of wolves. Harden the fuck up, your fat ass ain't in any danger.

you think your smart posting this stupid shit that plays well to the rest of the shoot shit stupids.

I used to work with a guy who ran skid steers in his brother-in-laws logging operation in Washington State. If even half of the stories he tells about some of those 125-some lbs. wolves are true, then only an ignoramus wouldn't be afraid of a pack of them.

Given that, I welcome wolves and lions out West here because they seem to drive out the coyotes. I was told by my local animal control officer that our neighborhood family of lions kills something like 50 coyotes a year. Make yourself comfortable lions!

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

I used to work with a guy who ran skid steers in his brother-in-laws logging operation in Washington State. If even half of the stories he tells about some of those 125-some lbs. wolves are true, then only an ignoramus wouldn't be afraid of a pack of them.

2 fatal attacks in North America this century, but thanks for bringing the Cliff.

On 10/11/2018 at 8:39 AM, Mike in Seattle said:

I have been Spirit Questing.  Wolf Brother wants to Gift me his Coat so my skinny ass doesn't get cold.

You need a really big wolf tail - that's the bit that covers the asshole.

If you want to be an ignorant ill-informed dickhead that shoots shit, that's your right in the USA. Sad you take so much pride in being stupid, but that's waht we've come to expect, and that's who the WADFW caters too.

Now - post something stupid and offensive to troll people into responding, then gleefully jerk off over the offended replies. You are owning the libs buddy! kudos!

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7 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

2 fatal attacks in North America this century, but thanks for bringing the Cliff.

Nonsense.

There have only been a handful of recorded fatal lion attacks on humans in the history of our state, but I guarantee, you would run scared like the rest of us if you saw one sunning on your driveway as you left for work.

Your whole "harden the fuck up" thing is laughable. Like every normal person, you would be limp as marshmallow if you ran into a lion or a wolf while hunting truffles.

I agree that we should encourage alpha predation in the Western States, but you are full of shit with your "harden the fuck up" nonsense.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:
1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

2 fatal attacks in North America this century, but thanks for bringing the Cliff.

Nonsense.

There have only been a handful of recorded fatal lion attacks on humans in the history of our state, but I guarantee, you would run scared like the rest of us if you saw one sunning on your driveway as you left for work.

Your whole "harden the fuck up" thing is laughable. Like every normal person, you would be limp as marshmallow if you ran into a lion or a wolf while hunting truffles.

I agree that we should encourage alpha predation in the Western States, but you are full of shit with your "harden the fuck up" nonsense.

Jiblet was clearly referring to wolf attacks, not cougars, mountain Mike. Cows kill twenty people a year. They are not fucking around.

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1 hour ago, lasal said:

Jiblet was clearly referring to wolf attacks, not cougars, mountain Mike. Cows kill twenty people a year. They are not fucking around.

And mosquitoes kill over a million. And saturated fat from cow meat has probably killed tens of millions.

But I have seen a mountain lion at night near my old house and I've seen a wolf up North. No contest in the terror inducing department. Lions usually leave before you even have a chance to get scared, I've probably run across the neighborhood lions ten times without even realizing it. The wolf (and even coyotes) are way more brave, terrifyingly brave as dogs are. They'll stare your ass down. If Jiblet thinks he can "HTFU" when he sees a wolf, it's because he probably only saw them in zoo or at the end of a leash. 

YMMV.

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34 minutes ago, mikewof said:

And mosquitoes kill over a million. And saturated fat from cow meat has probably killed tens of millions.

But I have seen a mountain lion at night near my old house and I've seen a wolf up North. No contest in the terror inducing department. Lions usually leave before you even have a chance to get scared, I've probably run across the neighborhood lions ten times without even realizing it. The wolf (and even coyotes) are way more brave, terrifyingly brave as dogs are. They'll stare your ass down. If Jiblet thinks he can "HTFU" when he sees a wolf, it's because he probably only saw them in zoo or at the end of a leash. 

YMMV.

We're talking USA, not the entire globe. And, I see coyotes on a regular basis.

image.thumb.png.2b4acdf6cb9c9480df4ce630f744617d.png

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3 hours ago, mikewof said:

If Jiblet thinks he can "HTFU" when he sees a wolf, it's because he probably only saw them in zoo or at the end of a leash. 

had one follow me down a trail this summer, only noticed the tracks. Bear came within 20' of the tent overnight once too. Moose are way scarier. Used to live in mountain lion country.

I just was a rational adult and realized the risk of an animal attack is quite low and they are quite cool animals that add something to life. Peoples mileage on this obviously varies.

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19 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

had one follow me down a trail this summer, only noticed the tracks. Bear came within 20' of the tent overnight once too. Moose are way scarier. Used to live in mountain lion country.

I just was a rational adult and realized the risk of an animal attack is quite low and they are quite cool animals that add something to life. Peoples mileage on this obviously varies.

You're right, the statistical risk is tiny. But reptile brain doesn't know statistics, when it sees one, it kicks in hard.

I agree with you that they add a lot to the quality of our lives, it reassures some measure of humility to our place in the food chain, and I think that's key to rational treatment of food animals. Factory farming is a disgrace, and those still-alice apex predators and the ilk backstrap, and deer sausage offer us a way back to a more natural kind of food.

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3 hours ago, lasal said:

We're talking USA, not the entire globe. And, I see coyotes on a regular basis.

image.thumb.png.2b4acdf6cb9c9480df4ce630f744617d.png

That's an interesting chart, but there are really two different kinds of animal deaths, right?

The person killed by that bear was probably hunted down by one pissed-off bear. And probably the dogs too, no dog murders a human because he wants another dog cookie. Angry moose check, hungry croc, angry swarm of bees, check.

But the cows? You know that probably 95% of those cow-human deaths were because some poor animal fell asleep while being milked by some half drunk ranch hand, and fell onto the poor sap. Or maybe was plodding along in a field and stepped on some drunk ranch hand who was out fixing the sprinklers. Do "cows" also include deaths from bulls? Or is it female-only bovine homicide?

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41 minutes ago, mikewof said:

That's an interesting chart, but there are really two different kinds of animal deaths, right?

The person killed by that bear was probably hunted down by one pissed-off bear. And probably the dogs too, no dog murders a human because he wants another dog cookie. Angry moose check, hungry croc, angry swarm of bees, check.

But the cows? You know that probably 95% of those cow-human deaths were because some poor animal fell asleep while being milked by some half drunk ranch hand, and fell onto the poor sap. Or maybe was plodding along in a field and stepped on some drunk ranch hand who was out fixing the sprinklers. Do "cows" also include deaths from bulls? Or is it female-only bovine homicide?

I should have known you were an animal psychologist. Your post does remind me of a near death or serious injury by an angry cow. Hiking to Judd Falls in CB  when the kids were little we were all strung out along the road walking to the trail, a group of us four parents in the back and five or six kids whatever I don't keep too close a count were up ahead and this cow comes crashing out of the trees bucking and chasing my buddy's bird dog and almost crushes my youngest daughter who was about four at the time. Missed by this much literally. The dog had been nosing around said momma with calf and she was not having it, as per usual. I can still see that scene play out in slow motion. I yelled at my friend about controlling his dog, but it was just one of those things. We continued our hike with a big sigh of relief. Put that cow in your chair. She was angreee.

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44 minutes ago, lasal said:

I should have known you were an animal psychologist. Your post does remind me of a near death or serious injury by an angry cow. Hiking to Judd Falls in CB  when the kids were little we were all strung out along the road walking to the trail, a group of us four parents in the back and five or six kids whatever I don't keep too close a count were up ahead and this cow comes crashing out of the trees bucking and chasing my buddy's bird dog and almost crushes my youngest daughter who was about four at the time. Missed by this much literally. The dog had been nosing around said momma with calf and she was not having it, as per usual. I can still see that scene play out in slow motion. I yelled at my friend about controlling his dog, but it was just one of those things. We continued our hike with a big sigh of relief. Put that cow in your chair. She was angreee.

Mad cow.

it's funny, we don't necessarily have the evolutionary defense in us humans properly tuned sometimes. Several years ago, I was walking the dog and a we came upon a HUGE twelve-something point Buck on our street, surrounded by some cows. Seemed harmless, I walked right up to the giant fucking beast. My coonhound was behind me, literally hiding behind my legs, shaking like a leaf. I looked down at her, those eyes were like "daddy! please! home! NOW!"

In reality, I guess I should have rightly been nervous about standing that close to a 300-some pound animal with pointy knives on its head, but I wasn't. The dog knew though.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

That's an interesting chart, but there are really two different kinds of animal deaths, right?

The person killed by that bear was probably hunted down by one pissed-off bear. And probably the dogs too, no dog murders a human because he wants another dog cookie. Angry moose check, hungry croc, angry swarm of bees, check.

But the cows? You know that probably 95% of those cow-human deaths were because some poor animal fell asleep while being milked by some half drunk ranch hand, and fell onto the poor sap. Or maybe was plodding along in a field and stepped on some drunk ranch hand who was out fixing the sprinklers. Do "cows" also include deaths from bulls? Or is it female-only bovine homicide?

BS!    Have you ever been charged by a cow?   Or even seen how cows are milked?   He’s dipping the teats first to prevent infection.

 

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On 10/4/2018 at 6:14 AM, Mike in Seattle said:

The letter from WDFW requesting delist

https://newhouse.house.gov/sites/newhouse.house.gov/files/WADFW Gray Wolf Delisting Support 5.15.18.pdf


Pg 2 Bullet Point


Wolves are recovering in Washington State
In 2008 the first wolf pack was documented in Washington State.
Today we have 22 known wolf packs.
During this time, the state's wolf population has increased by an average of more than 30 percent per year.
We want to have consistent management of wolves across the state of Washington.

 

 

Edit to add 2017 Map from https://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/

pack_map_033018.jpg

I think it would be preferable if the wolves consistently managed the people in their territories.  First come, first served and all that..

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

saturated fat from cow meat has probably killed tens of millions.

Mmmm... saturated fat from cow meat.

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4 hours ago, Lark said:

BS!    Have you ever been charged by a cow?   Or even seen how cows are milked?   He’s dipping the teats first to prevent infection.

I'm aware of the process, did it in 4H when I was a kid. Apologies that I didn't use the sarcasm font.

Back when I was a kid, there was inevitably some drunk asshole who got kicked while trying to milk at night.

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14 hours ago, mikewof said:

That's an interesting chart, but there are really two different kinds of animal deaths, right?

The person killed by that bear was probably hunted down by one pissed-off bear. And probably the dogs too, no dog murders a human because he wants another dog cookie. Angry moose check, hungry croc, angry swarm of bees, check.

But the cows? You know that probably 95% of those cow-human deaths were because some poor animal fell asleep while being milked by some half drunk ranch hand, and fell onto the poor sap. Or maybe was plodding along in a field and stepped on some drunk ranch hand who was out fixing the sprinklers. Do "cows" also include deaths from bulls? Or is it female-only bovine homicide?

Cows really don't like dogs if they have calves in the field with them.  They will attack if they feel threatened.  I lived next to to a milk farm in the UK.  Occasionally my Cairn Terrier would climb the fence and get in to the field next door.  Calves alone would huddle together, cows alone would keep an eye on him but basically ignore him.  A cow in the field with calves would attack.  Many of these fields are public footpaths and you soon learn when not to walk your dog in them.

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15 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Cows really don't like dogs if they have calves in the field with them.  They will attack if they feel threatened.  I lived next to to a milk farm in the UK.  Occasionally my Cairn Terrier would climb the fence and get in to the field next door.  Calves alone would huddle together, cows alone would keep an eye on him but basically ignore him.  A cow in the field with calves would attack.  Many of these fields are public footpaths and you soon learn when not to walk your dog in them.

Mama cows are formidable, if it's to protect their calf, they go after coyotes, wolves and lions on a friend's ranch. Definitely not defenseless.

Still I think that chart up there isn't correct, and a lot of deaths from bulls are just tossed in there with the cows.

My favorite ranchland bad-ass (pun appropriate) are the $150 burros from the Bureau of Land Management wild horse training programs at the prisons. Those burros will take on anything; rattlesnakes, lions, a pack of wolves, they're completely fearless. And yet, since you can never really break a wild burro, they have to nearly give them away because so many ranchers refuse to have anything on their land that won't follow orders.

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