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New Orleans : Three dead, seven injured

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Here's ya new gun thread ............................

 

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Three dead, seven injured in New Orleans shooting 

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    • Three people were killed and at least seven others were injured in a mass shooting in New Orleans late Saturday night, officials said.
    • Police said two gunman shot indiscriminately into a crowd at about 10:30 p.m. local time, about three miles from the city's famed French quarter.
    • Three of the wounded were pronounced dead at the scene and seven others were taken to local hospitals.

     

     

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/29/three-dead-seven-injured-in-new-orleans-shooting.html

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T&P

Time to increase you personal arsenals so you'll be safe.

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More guns as a solution to shootings makes as much sense as more alcohol is to drunkeness. 

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I’m thinking if 30 million people sent a case of TP to the whitehouse, it might shock the idiots enough that they’d pay attention.

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Any word if this involve assault glocks or assault 22’s? They are becoming the guns of choice for those who wish to eascape their mass shooting....

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Gun nuts, they do love to talk about gun violence and gun regulations in Chicago. It's a big city and so the numbers are big. But they don't like to talk about New Orleans and surrounding Louisiana and they sure as hell don't like talking about Alaska.

Chicago is #25 at 17.52 murders (overall, not just firearms) per 100k people. New Orleans is #4 at 41.68 murders per 100k people.

Alaska, as a state, has more firearm deaths per capita than Chicago,  23 firearm deaths per 100k. Suicides to be sure, but gun nuts shouldn't be defending those either. With that much land and that little population, you can't blame urban density, and with only 3.6% blacks, you can't really blame blacks either. There must be a reason for it. What could it be?

gun-ownership.jpg

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1 hour ago, Olsonist said:

Alaska, as a state, has more firearm deaths per capita than Chicago,  23 firearm deaths per 100k. Suicides to be sure, but gun nuts shouldn't be defending those either.

How many of those 23/100K are suicides vs homicides?  

If suicides are the reason for your desire for gungrabbing, what laws do you propose to stop suicidez????

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Dude, you should be a little more concerned about those suicides as they are your tribe not mine. There are more effective treatments for depression than an application of the Second Amendment.

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4 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

Dude, you should be a little more concerned about those suicides as they are your tribe not mine. There are more effective treatments for depression than an application of the Second Amendment.

They're quitters, regardless of tribe affiliation.  Buh bye.  

The real question is what law do you propose to stop those self-murders?

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13 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

They're quitters, regardless of tribe affiliation.  Buh bye.  

The real question is what law do you propose to stop those self-murders?

Suicide isn’t quitting, it’s the final end to downward spiral of depression and associated mental health issues. By the time many hit that point, they are far from compus mentas. 

Maybe a bit empathy and addressing the issue would be an idea? 

Got any friends or relatives that have battled depression/PTSD Jeff?

I have and have seen the end result. 

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37 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

They're quitters, regardless of tribe affiliation.  Buh bye.  

The real question is what law do you propose to stop those self-murders?

If you don't care about your tribe, fuck if I do. But it's the ones like Adam Lanza who take people with them that annoy me.

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5 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Why do folks care so much about suicides? Whose concern is it?

When it’s one of your friends or relatives you may feel differently 

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48 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Why do folks care so much about suicides? Whose concern is it?

If you've had friends or family who have committed suicide, you'd not need to ask.

However, if you need a selfish reason, there's a good argument to be made that it's everyone's concern.

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4 hours ago, mad said:

Maybe a bit empathy and addressing the issue would be an idea? 

Got any friends or relatives that have battled depression/PTSD Jeff?

That would be applying logic, empathy and understanding.

That's not the way Jeff frames his politics.

There was a piece on the radio here a couple months back talking about the difficultys of getting gun instructors & shops to talk about suicide (including things like posting a suicide hotline number on a bulletainboard). the most effective way was apparently "the gun grabbers use suicide numbers to take away the preciouses"

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15 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

If you've had friends or family who have committed suicide, you'd not need to ask.

However, if you need a selfish reason, there's a good argument to be made that it's everyone's concern.

Had a BIL who did that. He didn't use a gun, though he could have. Pills were his choice.

Pretty sad outcome and a lot of heart-searching but at the end of the day, his life & his choice. What's the alternatives, incarceration and/or compulsory medication?

It's a no-win all round. I have guns but if I wanted to kill myself, I wouldn't use one. Too messy for the people picking up the remains.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

Why do folks care so much about suicides? Whose concern is it?

People like you drift through life like cancer cells in the body.  You are disgusting and sad all at the same time.  However if you have no family that cares about yo your suicide is indeed no concern of mine.

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12 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Too messy for the people picking up the remains.

not sure the people picking up care all that much. it's the people who cared about the victim, and the people who find the body that are really scarred

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9 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

 Had a BIL who did that. He didn't use a gun, though he could have. Pills were his choice.

 Pretty sad outcome and a lot of heart-searching but at the end of the day, his life & his choice. What's the alternatives, incarceration and/or compulsory medication?

The alternative is mental health assistance. Someone with a long-term desire to end their life will eventually do so, no arguments. My wife and one of my sons have both had periods of neurochemical imbalance that caused them to have serious suicidal tendencies. They are very happy now, loving life and what it offers; but if left to "their life & their choice" during a period of time when they were not in their right mind, neither of them would be here.

I'm not saying we lock people up or require them to take medication; but I certainly do not condone the idea of shrugging our shoulders and leaving them in their pain to kill themselves if there is the realistic potential for them to come out of that dark period happy and clinging to life either. 

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24 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

The alternative is mental health assistance. Someone with a long-term desire to end their life will eventually do so, no arguments. My wife and one of my sons have both had periods of neurochemical imbalance that caused them to have serious suicidal tendencies. They are very happy now, loving life and what it offers; but if left to "their life & their choice" during a period of time when they were not in their right mind, neither of them would be here.

I'm not saying we lock people up or require them to take medication; but I certainly do not condone the idea of shrugging our shoulders and leaving them in their pain to kill themselves if there is the realistic potential for them to come out of that dark period happy and clinging to life either. 

It wasn't the first attempt and yes, he did get that support previously.

It's a no-win for everyone and I have no answers, not even glib ones on the internet.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Blue Crab said:

Why do folks care so much about suicides? Whose concern is it?

My best friend from high school lost his son to suicide by gun. He was an awesome outdoorsman, an awesome cook, just an awesome all around guy as is my buddy. His son suffered from depression, a thoroughly treatable condition. Jeffrey thinks the Second Amendment treats this condition sufficiently well. We disagree.

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

It wasn't the first attempt and yes, he did get that support previously.

Understand and sympathise. As I said, someone determined to kill themselves will do so. Having seen loved ones in the depths of despair and just how much they loved life after they got help, I just cannot see "their life and their choice" as anything but a glib excuse not to try.

I don't support indefinite measures, but I know from family experience that a short-term stay whilst starting my son on medication brought back his love of life and living. I've also seen what happens when we do nothing. I prefer to give them the opportunity to change their minds outside the fog of depression over letting them suffer and end themselves without help or hope. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Alaska, as a state, has more firearm deaths per capita than Chicago,  23 firearm deaths per 100k. Suicides to be sure, but gun nuts shouldn't be defending those either. 

Bull Shit. As countries like Canada and Australia have shown. The suicide rate returns to pre gun control levels and a brief and small dip. 

There are few examples better than this that illustrate the manipulation of statistics for political reasons.

Example. " study conducted 10 years after Port Arthur concluded: “Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides."  - independent.co.uk/us

Only the suicide rate in Australia did NOT decline dramatically and has now returned to pre gun buy back levels.  There is a lot to be gleaned from the following chart. Especially that the rate of gun deaths was already in steep decline and there is no apparent trend line change after gun control. 

 

Project1.thumb.jpg.17b9f9a3420a73b1fcc8cacaa99a8288.jpg

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It's the Sabbath. Jack and I are posting to PA. The only difference? I'm allowed to, and am.having a vodka martini.

Ok... That's two differences.

Note to Jack: It's not Monday yet. Put down the scorecard..

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I've developed a weakness for French 75s of late.

1 1/2 oz gin or cognac
1/2 oz lemon juice
1/4 oz sugar syrup
champagne

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34 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Bull Shit. As countries like Canada and Australia have shown. The suicide rate returns to pre gun control levels and a brief and small dip. 

There are few examples better than this that illustrate the manipulation of statistics for political reasons.

Example. " study conducted 10 years after Port Arthur concluded: “Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides."  - independent.co.uk/us

Only the suicide rate in Australia did NOT decline dramatically and has now returned to pre gun buy back levels.  There is a lot to be gleaned from the following chart. Especially that the rate of gun deaths was already in steep decline and there is no apparent trend line change after gun control. 

 

Project1.thumb.jpg.17b9f9a3420a73b1fcc8cacaa99a8288.jpg

Gun related suicides down 50%. Thanks for not proving your point. Again.

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FWIW, there is actual rules against posting on the Sabbath for Latter Day Saints. It's not "faith promoting" but if you're going to use that as an excuse on Sunday - you shouldn't be hanging out here in on the other days. Guessing HJ used the Sabbath as an excuse once and is now stuck whenever called on it without a response that doesn't highlight him as a hypocrite and/or liar.

He's not fond of people that know about the Church and can call him on his lies about it. Quickest way to get on his ignore list ;) 

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18 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Gun related suicides down 50%. Thanks for not proving your point. Again.

You are missing his point, but in doing so, you focus on what Happy Jack wants to argue and miss the fact he is outright wrong in his central claim

Total suicides, including those involving firearms, increased by a mean 1 per cent per year before 1996, and then decreased by a mean 1.5 per cent per year after the gun laws were introduced. Homicides and suicides that did not involve firearms were increasing by 2.1 per cent per year before gun reform, but the trend reversed and they began to decline by 1.4 per cent per year thereafter.

Australian suicide rates have not increased prior to gun control levels since that time either. Happy Jack either doesn't know the data behind our suicide rates or is lying about them. Either way, he has no credibility on the subject.

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It doesn't surprise me at all that some choose death over depression, disease, or infirmity. All the sadness is on the living. I know some folks angry beyond mere words at the decedents who caused them so much pain. The nerve!

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9 hours ago, mad said:

Suicide isn’t quitting, it’s the final end to downward spiral of depression and associated mental health issues. By the time many hit that point, they are far from compus mentas. 

Maybe a bit empathy and addressing the issue would be an idea? 

Got any friends or relatives that have battled depression/PTSD Jeff?

I have and have seen the end result. 

you bit.

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4 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

not sure the people picking up care all that much. it's the people who cared about the victim, and the people who find the body that are really scarred

Um..yes they do. Burn out rate, alcoholism and PTSD among SES (Stated emergency Service and ambo's is off the charts.

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2 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

It doesn't surprise me at all that some choose death over depression, disease, or infirmity. All the sadness is on the living. I know some folks angry beyond mere words at the decedents who caused them so much pain. The nerve!

It doesn't surprise me either. I am just not willing to shrug my shoulders at all of those facing that pain and nihilism because some of them will never escape it and end their lives even with the best of help. Perhaps we'd have less hard working farmers, returned soldiers, and the like dying at their own hand if less of the world thought "their life, their choice" and did the humane thing of reaching out with some help.

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Japan's suicide rate is far higher than ours in the US. Clearly, they would benefit from greater gun control.  Anecdotally, I've lost friends or close contacts to self-murder by: exhaust pipe/vacuum cleaner hose, knife, interstate highway + semi, pills, pistol, and pills again.  The pistol death was a cop on disability retirement & i expect he'd have access to any number of "throw" guns regardless of what laws or steal-back programs were enacted.

Given the rate of self-killings in Japan and other places without scads of guns in civilian hands, it seems disingenuous at the very best to include suicide deaths in with "gun violence" within the conext of crime reporting.  How desparate the control afficianados must be, that they have to stack the deck in order to have a meaningful case to argue; if it were otherwise, they'd quit padding their numbers in this way.

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18 hours ago, Fakenews said:

Any word if this involve assault glocks or assault 22’s? They are becoming the guns of choice for those who wish to eascape their mass shooting....

Politically convenient shootings always do. Just check the press release:

On 11/10/2017 at 4:46 PM, badlatitude said:
"We’re introducing an updated Assault Weapons Ban for one reason: so that after every mass shooting with a military-style assault weapon, the American people will know that a tool to reduce these massacres is sitting in the Senate, ready for debate and a vote. 

“This bill won’t stop every mass shooting, but it will begin removing these weapons of war from our streets. The first Assault Weapons Ban was just starting to show an effect when the NRA stymied its reauthorization in 2004. Yes, it will be a long process to reduce the massive supply of these assault weapons in our country, but we’ve got to start somewhere. 

“To those who say now isn’t the time, they’re right—we should have extended the original ban 13 years ago, before hundreds more Americans were murdered with these weapons of war. To my colleagues in Congress, I say do your job."

....................................................... 

Joining Senator Feinstein on the bill are Senators Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Patty Murray (D-Wash.), Jack Reed (D-R.I.), Tom Carper (D-Del.), Robert Menendez (D-N.J.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), Ben Cardin (D-Md.), Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.), Al Franken (D-Minn.), Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii), Mazie Hirono (D-Hawaii), Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), Ed Markey (D-Mass.), Cory Booker (D-N.J.), Kamala Harris (D-Calif.), Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), Tammy Duckworth (D-Ill.) and Bob Casey (D-Pa.).


I'm not allowed to say what they mean by "weapons of war" any more, but it means guns like my assault weapon, which looks something like one of these:

marlin-assault-rifles.jpg

Or the assault weapon I'm thinking of acquiring, which looks something like this:

SWVictoryFlower.jpg

They both shoot ammo like the one on the right:

On 6/2/2018 at 4:29 PM, Mark K said:

Not really. Discussing the question with someone who can't tell the difference between these two rounds...

 22_223a.jpg

 

...would be a discussion with either a moron or a victim of mental illness. Perhaps someone who has been horribly brain-washed, I dare not guess.  I think it best to leave such in the hands of professionals.    

 

 

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18 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Gun nuts, they do love to talk about gun violence and gun regulations in Chicago. It's a big city and so the numbers are big. But they don't like to talk about New Orleans and surrounding Louisiana and they sure as hell don't like talking about Alaska.

In a thread that seems to have vanished, I pointed out that a city to the south of me that I call Fort FatGrifter on this forum for technical reasons has a higher crime rate than Chicago.

I looked up violent crime rates and murder rates and compared them go gun ownership rates some time back. They don't correlate particularly well for those who think more guns reduce crime, nor for those who think more gun control does.

brady-vs-census.jpg

Speaking of correlation,

7 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Total suicides, including those involving firearms, increased by a mean 1 per cent per year before 1996, and then decreased by a mean 1.5 per cent per year after the gun laws were introduced. Homicides and suicides that did not involve firearms were increasing by 2.1 per cent per year before gun reform, but the trend reversed and they began to decline by 1.4 per cent per year thereafter.

Australian suicide rates have not increased prior to gun control levels since that time either.

Do you suppose you're observing correlation or causation?

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Really?  You’re banned from saying that particular description?  That is fucking awesome!!.    I will also heretofore not use it.

Sad that you didn’t have the will to do it by yourself.

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5 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

In a thread that seems to have vanished, I pointed out that a city to the south of me that I call Fort FatGrifter on this forum for technical reasons has a higher crime rate than Chicago.

I looked up violent crime rates and murder rates and compared them go gun ownership rates some time back. They don't correlate particularly well for those who think more guns reduce crime, nor for those who think more gun control does.

brady-vs-census.jpg

Speaking of correlation,

Do you suppose you're observing correlation or causation?

You should probably not carpet bomb threads with pictures of bullet either.

just some friendly advice. :)

 

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8 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

Do you suppose you're observing correlation or causation?

With regards to Happy Jack's incorrect claims about suicide - I don't need to suppose either. He is provably, numerically incorrect in his claims - with or without preprocessing.

I've not examined the cause of suicides in enough detail to make any other conclusions, but I've already stipulated in the past that I don't think guns have strong correlation or causative affect on suicide rates.

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1 minute ago, Bent Sailor said:

I've already stipulated in the past that I don't think guns have strong correlation or causative affect on suicide rates.

I agree with you and don't think we're defending suicides, but I think that's the kind of statement that provokes this reaction:

18 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Alaska, as a state, has more firearm deaths per capita than Chicago,  23 firearm deaths per 100k. Suicides to be sure, but gun nuts shouldn't be defending those either.

 

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1 minute ago, Fakenews said:

You should probably not carpet bomb threads with pictures of bullet either.

just some friendly advice. :)

 

I look forward to the day that there are not proposals to ban my assault weapon about which to post. I think they're stupid proposals and will say so as long as elected officials offer them.

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11 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I agree with you and don't think we're defending suicides, but I think that's the kind of statement that provokes this reaction:

Then take it up for with the person who had that reaction and leave me out of it. 

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13 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

I look forward to the day that there are not proposals to ban my assault weapon about which to post. I think they're stupid proposals and will say so as long as elected officials offer them.

Great just don’t do it here and especially on unrelated threads.  No one wants to hear that drivel and I think you were sent that message loud and clear.

 

Surely you have accounts on gun forums to talk about your precious. If not get one.

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10 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

Great just don’t do it here and especially on unrelated threads.  No one wants to hear that drivel and I think you were sent that message loud and clear.

 

Surely you have accounts on gun forums to talk about your precious. If not get one.

If Mid didn't start a thread about banning assault weapons, you probably wouldn't read any of my comments about banning assault weapons.

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I'm inclined to include "accidental" drug overdoses as suicides. It's a roll of the dice every time. That would change the stats bigly. I think most realise suicides aren't about guns at all. But guns cut down on the collateral damage which is all to the good compared to the person doing a head-on freeway suicide.

Or consider the folks who blow their brains out inside their homes, or cut themselves in the tub. "Loved" ones come home to the horror. Could there be a bigger "fuck you mom and dad?" I don't think so.

With 7+B folks on the planet, life isn't as precious as some believe. When I think of the unluckier peoples on earth making do against long odds, I inevitably think our overly sensitive folks need to harden the fuck up.

 

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17 hours ago, mad said:
17 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

They're quitters, regardless of tribe affiliation.  Buh bye.  

The real question is what law do you propose to stop those self-murders?

Suicide isn’t quitting, it’s the final end to downward spiral of depression and associated mental health issues. By the time many hit that point, they are far from compus mentas. 

Maybe a bit empathy and addressing the issue would be an idea? 

Got any friends or relatives that have battled depression/PTSD Jeff?

I have and have seen the end result. 

Yes, I have been around suicides and its tragic.  Sorry, was being a bit flippant because I'm annoyed that the usual suspects continue to conflate suicides as having anything to do with gun control.  Yes it is tragic, But as FKT correctly said, their life, their choice.

Suicide is not a gun control issue.

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16 hours ago, Olsonist said:

If you don't care about your tribe, fuck if I do. But it's the ones like Adam Lanza who take people with them that annoy me.

They are not MY tribe, because I don't have a tribe.  

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11 hours ago, Olsonist said:

My best friend from high school lost his son to suicide by gun. He was an awesome outdoorsman, an awesome cook, just an awesome all around guy as is my buddy. His son suffered from depression, a thoroughly treatable condition. Jeffrey thinks the Second Amendment treats this condition sufficiently well. We disagree.

Fuck awf!  That's not at all what I think and you know it.  I just don't think the 2nd amendment is responsible for his death.  Would have blamed the rope or the razor blade or the pills for his suicide if it has not been a gun self-murder???  I suspect not.

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Jeff, that’s because you don’t think the 2A is responsible for anything. We disagree.

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I know several people currently attenpting to drink/drug themselves to death. Daily. None are teens. Empathy for them too?

Last year a real good guy died on his toilet when his insides rotted out. We all knew something was wrong but he wanted no help and wouldn't even go to a doctor. As a vet, money wasn't an issue. What treatment exists for that level of depression?

How many of those horrific teen car wrecks are actually suicides?

I can't believe the homeless live that way from choice. Too depressing.

We are not equal. Some handle the bumps in life, some do not.

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8 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

you bit.

.......and I should know better.

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8 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

It doesn't surprise me at all that some choose death over depression, disease, or infirmity. All the sadness is on the living. I know some folks angry beyond mere words at the decedents who caused them so much pain. The nerve!

Yeah, they choose death because life becomes intolerable. And then the people they leave then have a life that is more intolerable too. So suicide becomes a communicable disease of a sort.

There has to be a better way to treat that disease than a self-inflicted bullet. Guns make the process of suicide so efficient, that the treatment of the problem then becomes more difficult.

Consider Alaska ... twice the suicide rate of the rest of the country. People there live in a very humid climate, with sealed-up, poorly ventilated homes, due to the cold. Then, due to the long nights and cold,  lots of people tend to stay indoors there. Black mold is a problem in Alaska, and researchers have begun to see connections with black mold and severe depression. 

But before that person can be treated, perhaps with something no more sophisticated than a $50 bathroom fan installation, BAM.

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22 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

I know several people currently attenpting to drink/drug themselves to death. Daily. None are teens. Empathy for them too?

Yep, have you any idea how many people with serious mental health conditions like bipolar disorder self medicate with alcohol and drugs..If you had a half decent health care system many could get some help..many of these conditions are brain chemical disfunctions and can be treated,

Last year a real good guy died on his toilet when his insides rotted out. We all knew something was wrong but he wanted no help and wouldn't even go to a doctor. As a vet, money wasn't an issue. What treatment exists for that level of depression?

As you have no idea what he was suffering from..who knows.

How many of those horrific teen car wrecks are actually suicides?

I don't know..not many..you have guns..why wreck the car?

I can't believe the homeless live that way from choice. Too depressing.

What are you waffling on about now?"Homeless" what sort of homeless? The mentally ill? Some do live on the streets by choice..most don't.

We are not equal. Some handle the bumps in life, some do not.

Bumps in life you say? INHERITED MENTAL CONDITIONS ARE NOT BUMPS IN LIFE!! They kill, they leave families torn apart, they destroy childrens lives..They plunge whole, nice ordinary middle class hard working  families into poverty. wouldn't wish an unmedicated bipolar partner on anyone..even you..but it's fucking tempting. You can't "Handle" mental illness like you cope with a stint of unemployment or your GF walking out with her bestie...Can you treat diabetes with asprin?

 

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Yes, I have been around suicides and its tragic.  Sorry, was being a bit flippant because I'm annoyed that the usual suspects continue to conflate suicides as having anything to do with gun control.  Yes it is tragic, But as FKT correctly said, their life, their choice.

Suicide is not a gun control issue.

Agreed,  though as regards to it being their choice, I genuinely don't think that the many who commit suicide have the mental capacity to be taking that choice clearly anymore.  It's just a fog of depression.

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4 minutes ago, mad said:

Agreed,  though as regards to it being their choice, I genuinely don't think that the many who commit suicide have the mental capacity to be taking that choice clearly anymore.  It's just a fog of depression.

yeah but the bloke who jumps from a bridge has to pass 100 people on the way. The bloke with a gun in the cupboard just has to sit quietly with his messed up head for a while..usually alone.

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10 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Gun related suicides down 50%. Thanks for not proving your point. Again.

Suicides by other means increased. Net improvement was nil. Using suicide as an argument for gun control is telling a lie. People who want to commit suicide will find a way. 

Even if that was not the case the trend line did NOT change after the gun buy back. The Australian government has acknowledged there is no evidence of a causal link. 

While it also noted an accelerated decline in firearms deaths since the ban, and a statistically significant acceleration in the downward trend of firearm suicides, it concluded they could not be causally linked to Mr Howard’s ban despite this correlation.

The researchers wrote: “There was a more rapid decline in firearm deaths between 1997 and 2013 compared with before 1997, but also a decline in total non-firearm suicide and homicide deaths of a greater magnitude.

“Because of this, it is not possible to determine whether the change in firearm deaths can be attributed to the gun law reforms.”

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Studies have found the Honda Ridgeline to be very safe to operate and almost unheard of as a means of suicide  In fact were unable to locate any instance of a Ridgeline enabled suicide. 

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29 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Bla bla blah.

It must be be nice to have all the answers as ShortBob always does. She even knows the unknowable like how many accidents are really suicides. What a fruitcake.

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

yeah but the bloke who jumps from a bridge has to pass 100 people on the way. The bloke with a gun in the cupboard just has to sit quietly with his messed up head for a while..usually alone.

Neither scenario plays much on the mind of a person considering suicide. 

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Gosh..... 3 miles from the famed French quarter..... Any bets on whether it was in the lower 9th ward? (No looking/peeking).....:rolleyes:

 If this had happened on Bourbon st. it would still be breaking news on every major news channel....

 But it's not.

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1 hour ago, Mrleft8 said:

Gosh..... 3 miles from the famed French quarter..... Any bets on whether it was in the lower 9th ward? (No looking/peeking).....:rolleyes:

 If this had happened on Bourbon st. it would still be breaking news on every major news channel....

 But it's not.

Had to look. It wasn't the Lower 9th. 3400 block of South Claiborne Avenue. It's easy to get a gun in the Big Easy.

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6 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Jeff, that’s because you don’t think the 2A is responsible for anything. We disagree.

The 2A is responsible for suicides?  What's your suggestion then?  What laws do you propose to fix it?  Are you ready to call a constitutional convention to overturn the 2A?

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11 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Are you ready to call a constitutional convention to overturn the 2A?

No need for a constitutional convention, just follow the normal amendment procedure.

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2 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

No need for a constitutional convention, just follow the normal amendment procedure.

Fill your boots.

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7 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
20 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Are you ready to call a constitutional convention to overturn the 2A?

No need for a constitutional convention, just follow the normal amendment procedure.

So again, do you consider the 2A responsible for the 2/3rds of gun deaths (self-murder)?  And if so, you must also consider the 1A responsible for Nazis?

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7 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So again, do you consider the 2A responsible for the 2/3rds of gun deaths (self-murder)?  And if so, you must also consider the 1A responsible for Nazis?

yes, easy access to firearms plays a role in successful suicides. the other part - that's your usual irrational bullshit.

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4 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
11 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So again, do you consider the 2A responsible for the 2/3rds of gun deaths (self-murder)?  And if so, you must also consider the 1A responsible for Nazis?

yes, easy access to firearms plays a role in successful suicides. the other part - that's your usual irrational bullshit.

Not BS at all.  The 1A enables Nazis.  Its a fact.  Without the ability to speak and assemble so freely, nazis would not have been able to march in Charlottesville.  Without the freedom of the press, nazis would not be able to spread their hate on social media.  

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It’s the best way to do it.

Opiods are impossible to come by.  The average person doesn’t know where to come by herorin or fentanyl. Taking too much Tylenol is painful. Cutting you throat is hard and gross. Death by fire hurts real bad. Strangulation is very uncomfortable. Jumping of a bridge is the only good alternative but people survive jumping off the Golden Gate (and now there are Netscape).

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12 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

It’s the best way to do it.

Opiods are impossible to come by.  The average person doesn’t know where to come by herorin or fentanyl. Taking too much Tylenol is painful. Cutting you throat is hard and gross. Death by fire hurts real bad. Strangulation is very uncomfortable. Jumping of a bridge is the only good alternative but people survive jumping off the Golden Gate (and now there are Netscape).

Quote

Every day, more than 115 people in the United States die after overdosing on opioids.1 The misuse of and addiction to opioids—including prescription pain relieversheroin, and synthetic opioids such as fentanyl—is a serious national crisis that affects public health as well as social and economic welfare. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that the total "economic burden" of prescription opioid misuse alone in the United States is $78.5 billion a year, including the costs of healthcare, lost productivity, addiction treatment, and criminal justice involvement.2

 

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11 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
18 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Without the freedom of the press, nazis would not be able to spread their hate on social media.  

nothing to do with a free press.

Would you mind explaining why you think that? 

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Opioid pills are impossible to come by is proper quantities. My elder mom has had nerve related debilitating pain (if off oxyicodyn) Has Had it for a decade.  She has to see her doctor every 30 days to get a refill with bimonthly blood tests. They even tried to cut her daily dose. I suggested medical marijuana but if they find that in her blood they won’t treat her (sorry for the brief digression).  I’ve done plenty of pot,  hash, coke and even some acid and shrooms but I’d have no idea where to get herorin and more so my mom.

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7 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

It must be be nice to have all the answers as ShortBob always does. She even knows the unknowable like how many accidents are really suicides. What a fruitcake.

What I said "

How many of those horrific teen car wrecks are actually suicides?

I don't know..not many..you have guns..why wreck the car?"

Being Married to an unmedicated Bipolar for 28 years who died from alcohol abuse, after nearly impoverishing our family, and coping with the aftermath with the kids (one of whom inherited the condition) gives me some right to chastise ignorant idiots such as yourself, yeah.

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2 hours ago, Fakenews said:

It’s the best way to do it.

Opiods are impossible to come by.  The average person doesn’t know where to come by herorin or fentanyl. Taking too much Tylenol is painful. Cutting you throat is hard and gross. Death by fire hurts real bad. Strangulation is very uncomfortable. Jumping of a bridge is the only good alternative but people survive jumping off the Golden Gate (and now there are Netscape).

 

1 hour ago, Fakenews said:

Opioid pills are impossible to come by is proper quantities. My elder mom has had nerve related debilitating pain (if off oxyicodyn) Has Had it for a decade.  She has to see her doctor every 30 days to get a refill with bimonthly blood tests. They even tried to cut her daily dose. I suggested medical marijuana but if they find that in her blood they won’t treat her (sorry for the brief digression).  I’ve done plenty of pot,  hash, coke and even some acid and shrooms but I’d have no idea where to get herorin and more so my mom.

Gator, are you planning to kill your elder mom (and presumably keep your younger mom)?

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On 7/29/2018 at 10:47 AM, Olsonist said:

Gun nuts, they do love to talk about gun violence and gun regulations in Chicago. It's a big city and so the numbers are big. But they don't like to talk about New Orleans and surrounding Louisiana and they sure as hell don't like talking about Alaska.

Chicago is #25 at 17.52 murders (overall, not just firearms) per 100k people. New Orleans is #4 at 41.68 murders per 100k people.

Alaska, as a state, has more firearm deaths per capita than Chicago,  23 firearm deaths per 100k. Suicides to be sure, but gun nuts shouldn't be defending those either. With that much land and that little population, you can't blame urban density, and with only 3.6% blacks, you can't really blame blacks either. There must be a reason for it. What could it be?

gun-ownership.jpg

WOW, NE at 19 jumps out as crazy low, would have though that TX and OK would have been much higher.  

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9 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Suicides by other means increased. Net improvement was nil.

You have been corrected on this bullshit. And yes, I know you read it. Net improvement from the time you stated was positive. You can argue correlation vs causation if you like, but you are flat out wrong about the underlying numbers.

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2 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

 

Gator, are you planning to kill your elder mom (and presumably keep your younger mom)?

You proved earlier you had a mean streak.  Now we can add douchebag to the list.

cant blame your shitty Cal 20 on that...

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4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
4 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
4 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Without the freedom of the press, nazis would not be able to spread their hate on social media.  

nothing to do with a free press.

Would you mind explaining why you think that? 

I'll take a guess:

Because that's $peech and only certain pre$$ corporations have "freedom of the pre$$"?

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12 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

If Mid didn't start a thread about banning assault weapons, you probably wouldn't read any of my comments about banning assault weapons.

 

12 hours ago, Fakenews said:

IMAGINE if he did!  Just IMAGINE!,,

You didn't read the press release in post 38?

Quote

a tool to reduce these massacres is sitting in the Senate, ready for debate and a vote.

So I linked to it and commented on it. That's what PA is for.

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6 hours ago, Olsonist said:

Had to look. It wasn't the Lower 9th. 3400 block of South Claiborne Avenue. It's easy to get a gun in the Big Easy.

Pretty much anyone who actually lives in the crescent possesses at least a hand gun. Just going out to the Rock-N-Bowl, after dinner you'll see more fat ankles in a block and a half than you'll see in most cities all night long.

 Of course half of them are either UC or OD cops, but that doesn't make them choir boys.

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26 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

 

You didn't read the press release in post 38?

So I linked to it and commented on it. That's what PA is for.

Except that post #38 is yours and you did not quote Mid.

SAD!

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12 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Pretty much anyone who actually lives in the crescent possesses at least a hand gun. Just going out to the Rock-N-Bowl, after dinner you'll see more fat ankles in a block and a half than you'll see in most cities all night long.

 Of course half of them are either UC or OD cops, but that doesn't make them choir boys.

I was there last year visiting a cousin and driving my elderly aunt around. After they got put to bed, I got out and about. Some awesome dancing and awesome music. Hated+avoided Bourbon Street. Got a really nice tour and explanation of the Lower 9th and Mardi Gras krewes from a family friend. Louisiana cooking was way saltier than California renditions; I wasn't expecting that at all. There was one dish that was memorable. It was a simple dessert consisting of two ingredients I don't much like: a yam+cranberry casserole (brown sugar, not white sugar). Just outstanding.

I did like NO. I probably took a lot of risks I wasn't really aware of but I did like NO. I just did.

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