zimm

Replacing forestay turnbuckle with lever- look like I need a new cable?

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Forgive my newbie-ness, but before I drive an hour to a rigging shop- am I missing something obvious?  I want to replace my forestay turnbuckle with a quick tension lever.  However it looks like I will need a new cable made that has a loop in it instead of the swaged threaded rod?

 

IMG_9383.jpg

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You need an eye terminal. If you're handy you can use a mechanical fitting. If not, a rigger can make you a new forestay with a swage eye terminal. The pins should be sized correctly for your fittings. I've seen people use pins that are too small for the fitting, and it looks sketchy. I've also seen people drill out holes in fittings to use a pin that's a bit too large. That seems sketchy too.

 

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I could do a mechanical eye fitting.  It looks like the cable would end up too short though.

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Please double check the strength of your proposed new hi field lever. Clevis pin size is smaller then your T/B. And if you go ahead with that lever, it will need a toggle underneath it.

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20 minutes ago, longy said:

Please double check the strength of your proposed new hi field lever. Clevis pin size is smaller then your T/B. And if you go ahead with that lever, it will need a toggle underneath it.

1,000 pounds working and 2,500 pounds breaking.  It's all 1/4" pins.  What do you mean by a toggle under the lever?

 

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm

 

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Any stay with a sail set on it Must be able to align itself in any direction, or it will fail due to uneven loading/bending. Note that your existing turnbuckle has a built in toggle/jaw lower piece. The additional shackle under the toggle also allows for flex. What are the pin diameters & wire size of the original?

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Every piece of rigging on my west wight potter 19 is 1/4" pins and 1/8" cable.

Here she is set up in the backyard.  3 stays per side, fore and back stay too.  I didn't put the jib up for the picture though.  It's a 3/4 fractional rig.

 

IMG_9260.jpg

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OK, just add a toggle under the lever & you're good to go.

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The only problem I see with a toggle is they all stack the second pin 90 degrees out.  So the lever would then be sideways.  Does that matter?

 

This one looks nicer:

 

P016004731_LRG.jpg

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Having the 2nd pin at 90 to the first is what makes it work - between the two pins it can bend to any angle. The first toggle is the one to use, if the top of the toggle fits between the jaws of the lever. The lever does not care which way it points.

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If you make up an SS plate to go on top of the lever and then get a toggle staged onto the wire rather than an eye you will not only get the articulation you need but the plate will allow you to use your existing forestay which would be too short otherwise.

Get forestay swaged first then make plate to suit length and pin diameters. 

Make the plate out of 8mm SS and use washers to keep in the middle of the clevis pins 

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No, a toggle on the top of the lever will do nothing - the bending strain will still be ton the lever/chainplate joint.

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Umm with an over center lever like the one shown, adjustments to stay tension are pretty much limited to 1/2" increments aren't they? In other words you can have the stay at the top pin position, or move it down about 1/2". Makes it a bit tricky to fine tune doesn't it? 

Could you shorten the stay, keeping the turnbuckle and have the turnbuckle toggle pinned to the top of the over center lenter?

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Probably.  That's adding a lot of hardware to fail in my eyes though.  The whole point of the of the lever is that I can step the mast without the raising hardware (gin pole, block and tackle).  For example having to duck under a low bridge in the keys, etc.  Without the tackle, I can't get enough tension on the forestay to get the pin in place.

You're right about the 1/2" increments though.  I figured I could adjust the rest with the backstay to maintain proper tension.  The backstay is still a turnbuckle.

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14 hours ago, longy said:

No, a toggle on the top of the lever will do nothing - the bending strain will still be ton the lever/chainplate joint.

What about the millions of cruising boats with link plates between the turnbuckle and chainplate?? Works fine for them?

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NO, it doesnt. But don't let me dissuade you.

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There used to be a fellow named Jack Kavorkian who assisted in projects like yours. 

 

I won’t

Enlist the  assistance of a professional whose expertise  is Sailboat rigging.

Shroud  design is not  hobby in which beginners can safely participate and advice from a bunch of anonymous folks with keyboards about shroud design is not the advice which will best serve you. 

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I dropped the forestay off at the West Marine rigging shop and they're going to make a whole new cable with a toggle on the lower side of the lever and match up the overall length of the old stay.  The rigger did mention that tuning isn't going to be easy with only 1/2" adjustments on the lever.  Hopefully I'll get lucky and it'll be close.  Maybe I can make some adjustment with the backstay too?  I'll have the old cable still so if I have to go back to it, I can.  It'll make a nice spare if the lever works out.

He was about to talk me out of the lever until I told him I'm a trailer sailer and he agreed it would be nice since I step the mast every time I take the boat out.

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On 8/5/2018 at 4:21 PM, longy said:

NO, it doesnt. But don't let me dissuade you.

Yes you're right. Sorry was thinking about it wrong.

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I got my new forestay from the West Marine rigging shop.  They did the toggle too.  $85 for the thing (plus the cost of the lever).  I'm going to step the mast and see how the length works out.

 

IMG_9399.jpg

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It works!  I had to shorten it one hole on the adjuster and that let me open up the backstay a bit and achieve tension.  Before the backstay turnbuckle was all the way closed up and still really loose.  Now to get her on the water and see how she sails!

IMG_9400.jpg

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On 8/6/2018 at 12:24 PM, zimm said:

I dropped the forestay off at the West Marine rigging shop and they're going to make a whole new cable with a toggle on the lower side of the lever and match up the overall length of the old stay.  The rigger did mention that tuning isn't going to be easy with only 1/2" adjustments on the lever.  Hopefully I'll get lucky and it'll be close.  Maybe I can make some adjustment with the backstay too?  I'll have the old cable still so if I have to go back to it, I can.  It'll make a nice spare if the lever works out.

He was about to talk me out of the lever until I told him I'm a trailer sailer and he agreed it would be nice since I step the mast every time I take the boat out.

1/2" increments will be fine for your purposes unless you intend to race competitively.

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