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ICE

I've now simmered down enough to discuss this.

A couple of weeks ago I was walking along a downtown street here in the very epicenter of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto CA, chatting loudly to a mate on the phone about a tech deal in which we were both involved.  It was University Avenue, the heart of everything technological.  Mid afternoon.

I've been here for 24 years, and despite being a multinational citizen (Australian and British) I've had a green card for 15 years, and a US passport for 4 years.  My accent, however, seems not to have dissipated, despite what they say in London when I visit family.

Anyway I was accosted on the street by three non-uniformed ICE goons, who abruptly asked me if I was a citizen, because I didn't sound like one.  Of course I requested their credentials, which were produced with resistance.  They looked kosher, but how can you tell?  

I asked why they had stopped me and what was their purpose.  As the ICE, we have absolute authority within 100 miles of a US border, I was told, and you're 25 miles from the Pacific Ocean, so we can ask you what we want to.  We are in control here.  Are you a US citizen?

WTF?

I produced my CA drivers license and US Passport card (the little credit-card size one that is good to carry if you're going to Canada or the Caribbean or Mexico) and they looked amazed at it as they'd never seen one before and thought it was bogus.  Fuck their training.  

BTW, if you don't have one of those US Passport cards, get one and stuff it in your wallet.  It's the best ID you can have.

Luckily my car was nearby so I triggered the red button on the remote keyfob in my pocket for immediate audible alarm and as the Palo Alto Police came round the corner a couple of minutes later, the three goons simply said all was in order and handed me back my CA driver license and passport card and moved away.

A bit shaken up, I can tell you.  WTF?  WTFF?  WTFFF?  WTFFFFFFFFF?

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Think about it this way. an experience to find out how it feels.

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34 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Think about it this way. an experience to find out how it feels.

PS..make a complaint to your senator..assuming you are a US cit...

You DID get their ID numbers I assume?

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Next time they will tell you to wear an arm band, a star on it or something similar.

I know that's where you live now, but have you thought about getting the fuck out of that shit hole?

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I'd like you to get that story out on Twitter or somewhere that people might read it and spread it around. Thanks.

 

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ICE has become weaponized and screams out for reform. I think that the whole “Abolish ICE” movement is overreach, but stories like this make me rethink that position. 

Papers please!

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My country is fucked.

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OK, I've talked to the Palo Alto Deputy Chief of Police yesterday, who had no idea this was happening, but he said will alert his team to be on the lookout.  He was equally appalled.  

I have a call scheduled today with the Lieutenant Governor (about to be Governor) of California, and will raise the same stink with him too.

And no, I wasn't loud on the phone. Just trying to get above the ever-present noise of construction on this street.

What is it coming to?

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5 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

I'd like you to get that story out on Twitter or somewhere that people might read it and spread it around. Thanks.

I don't tweet.  I enjoy some sort of privacy.  But please feel free to, but please don't use my name or handle.  Thanks.

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we appreciate you bringing up all the "chatting loudly to a mate on the phone" to the local authorities.  it must stop

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1 minute ago, hermetic said:

we appreciate you bringing up all the "chatting loudly to a mate on the phone" to the local authorities.  it must stop

Yes, and the incessant jack-hammering of the street doesn't?  

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That's not good. But getting hassled by ICE is a way of life for southern Arizona, NM, and Texas. And not just at those stupid road blocks. They really fuck with the Tohono O'odham people.

Regulating foreign workers like this is schizophrenic.

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ICE has been around for 15+ years, from when DHS was created. They didn't much make the news until Cheetolini was elected and started using them as Gestapo. We got along fine before without ICE. Reform isn't practical, IMO, because they can be 'unreformed'. Just get rid of them. 

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Some people shouldn’t be given a uniform and badge.

I suspect ICE attracts some unsavory folks to fill its ranks. 

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I've decided to change my response.  "Are you a US Citizen?"  "I'm a tourist.  Who are you?"  "Do you have ID?"  "No, I didn't know I needed papers to walk about the street in the US.  Is this like East Germany in the 70s?  I was there, and I didn't like it much."  

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3 hours ago, P_Wop said:

OK, I've talked to the Palo Alto Deputy Chief of Police yesterday, who had no idea this was happening, but he said will alert his team to be on the lookout.  He was equally appalled.  

I have a call scheduled today with the Lieutenant Governor (about to be Governor) of California, and will raise the same stink with him too.

And no, I wasn't loud on the phone. Just trying to get above the ever-present noise of construction on this street.

What is it coming to?

This is appalling - I hope that you're able to gain some sense of satisfaction with these conversations.  

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11 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

You DID get their ID numbers I assume?

Nope.  Too fast and too intrusive and too disturbing.  I started to reach into my back pocket for my phone to take a photo of them and their credentials, but at the hint of that one of the three goons reached for his belt, presumably for a weapon.  So I didn't.

Fuck this.

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1 hour ago, P_Wop said:

I've decided to change my response.  "Are you a US Citizen?"  "I'm a tourist.  Who are you?"  "Do you have ID?"  "No, I didn't know I needed papers to walk about the street in the US.  Is this like East Germany in the 70s?  I was there, and I didn't like it much."  

in all seriousness, it is not a good idea to lie to federal agents

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A country gets the police force it deserves. The problem is that the US does not deserve people like this.  What is wrong with an informal chat to start things   If there are issues, they can take it further, but to start off with dominance does not really work.

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I wonder if wandering around Fart Louderdale speaking with a fake Russian accent would get me any attention.....

 Nah....

 No doubt I wouldn't have acted any differently than you did, but given 20/20 hind sight I would have told them that I didn't need any ID, and if they thought I was there (here) illegally, they could prove it....

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25 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

I wonder if wandering around Fart Louderdale speaking with a fake Russian accent would get me any attention.....

 Nah....

 No doubt I wouldn't have acted any differently than you did, but given 20/20 hind sight I would have told them that I didn't need any ID, and if they thought I was there (here) illegally, they could prove it....

I've learned over the years that it never pays to fuck with cops' heads. They don't have a sense of humor. If the encounter ends pleasantly, then you can crack a joke at the end. 

I once got pulled over late at night while carrying a Moth upside down on back of PU truck. Cop said one of two tag lights was burned out, but admitted it was just dimmer than the other. I figured he just wanted a look at the boat. He was pleasant, and I let him look into bed of PU. He cracked a joke about just wanting to be sure I wasn't hiding OBL in the bed, and I replied that if I was, I'd gladly turn him over after I got 'done' with him. We both laughed. He was just curious...antagonizing him wouldn't have accomplished anything good. BTW, it was Highway Patrol...they're generally much more pleasant than local dicks.

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37 minutes ago, Laker said:

A country gets the police force it deserves. The problem is that the US does not deserve people like this.  What is wrong with an informal chat to start things   If there are issues, they can take it further, but to start off with dominance does not really work.

But we DO deserve it. This is the same police force that is happily separating children from their families.

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56 minutes ago, hermetic said:

in all seriousness, it is not a good idea to lie to federal agents

Yes, you're right.  I just need to develop the bottle to confront three large, probably armed and very intimidating un-uniformed officers with my rational and documentable proof of bona fides.  

Ugh, anyway.

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So - to all you law and order types - this is a pretty small community, and it was in Palo Alto of all places. How many times do you think this is happening across the USA each day? Do they all end pleasantly?

Is the Kiddie Kidnapping Kaper just the most pus-festering wound of this horrific institution?

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I don't understand what they hope to accomplish BUT the local PD is also trained to take CONTROL of every encounter its never pleasant anymore

As far as ICE there is a pretty big issue with Visa overstay BUT since they know who overstayed one would think that would give them plenty of work without rousting random people on the street

I am kind of glad Europe is not like this as i spent two weeks there in 2015 and 3 in 2017 and after clearing customs never encountered any issues

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4 hours ago, P_Wop said:

I've decided to change my response.  "Are you a US Citizen?"  "I'm a tourist.  Who are you?"  "Do you have ID?"  "No, I didn't know I needed papers to walk about the street in the US.  Is this like East Germany in the 70s?  I was there, and I didn't like it much."  

This isn't anything new. I got pulled over in SE Arizona by the Border Patrol guys pre-9/11. I wasn't carrying my passport & visa, just my usual crap including my corporate credit card. I guess it was fortunate that corp HQ was right next to the Border Patrol offices in Tucson. Anyway they were polite, told me I needed to carry my passport etc, asked to look in the car boot (no probs there, I wasn't carrying anything) and I was on my way.

Sounds like it's got a lot worse.

Another forum, one of the members lives in south New Mexico and gets regularly hassled. He point blank refuses to provide them with ID after saying that yes, he is a US citizen and tells them they can arrest him or let him go. So far he's been told to piss off. I think he's waiting for the day they do something stupid as apparently the local LE, judges etc don't like this crap either.

FKT

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Just do like my friends did when they had to travel from Palm Springs to Arkansas - drive an old Rolls Royce and have grey hair.

They got waved through ever roadblock they came across. :D

 

As an aside, in Arkansas the power windows stopped working (down, naturally) and getting them fixed would have meant trucking the car to Dallas so Peter donated it to a local church and took the tax writeoff. They flew home.

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4 hours ago, P_Wop said:
5 hours ago, hermetic said:

in all seriousness, it is not a good idea to lie to federal agents

Yes, you're right.  I just need to develop the bottle to confront three large, probably armed and very intimidating un-uniformed officers with my rational and documentable proof of bona fides.  

Ugh, anyway.

It's not a good idea for federal agents to not be uniformed, and to act so unprofessionally.

You were right to not get escalate any confrontation, you are also right to be outraged. As a taxpayer, I'm outraged that my government is wasting my money hiring these goons. So, their job is basically to wander the streets and hassle people who talk funny? WTF??!?!

-DSK

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2 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's not a good idea for federal agents to not be uniformed, and to act so unprofessionally.

You were right to not get escalate any confrontation, you are also right to be outraged. As a taxpayer, I'm outraged that my government is wasting my money hiring these goons. So, their job is basically to wander the streets and hassle people who talk funny? WTF??!?!

-DSK

A step up from kidnapping children I suppose.

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21 hours ago, P_Wop said:

A bit shaken up, I can tell you.  WTF?  WTFF?  WTFFF?  WTFFFFFFFFF?

1

You are obviously NOT Hispanic.

That's what the fuck happened. 

 

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10 hours ago, Raz'r said:
10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

It's not a good idea for federal agents to not be uniformed, and to act so unprofessionally.

You were right to not get escalate any confrontation, you are also right to be outraged. As a taxpayer, I'm outraged that my government is wasting my money hiring these goons. So, their job is basically to wander the streets and hassle people who talk funny? WTF??!?!

-DSK

A step up from kidnapping children I suppose.

you two are funny

at least get the shtick straight - the children were kidnapped by hhs.  the adults were sent to ice concentration camps 

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15 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

This isn't anything new. I got pulled over in SE Arizona by the Border Patrol guys pre-9/11.

The active expansion using the pretext of "anywhere within 100 miles of a border" to places like Palo Alto, CA a wealthy suburb 400miles from the Mexico border is new.

Harassing business people is stupid, but that's Trump. 

good to see hermetic is getting his troll on this morning.

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2 hours ago, hermetic said:

you two are funny

at least get the shtick straight - the children were kidnapped by hhs.  the adults were sent to ice concentration camps 

Well it's a tragedy, might as well laugh if you're going to do anything...... it's not really funny I agree

I hope that most of us include writing to our Congressperson among the things we actually do

-DSK

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1 hour ago, dalenz said:

good article re ICE: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/trump-ice/565772/

Had been thinking along these lines as it is directly controlled by DOJ hence the perfect apparatus for folks such as Bannon and Miller with no need for pesky interference from other Federal and State bodies. Their own Brownshirts with an additional 5,000 to be added.

I believe there is no oversight for the DHS which owns all these new agencies, including CG & ICE and others.   Like, no oversight at all.  Is that right?

"Call me a liar, Fish." - the movie "Contact"

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congress provides oversight.  the same body that refuses to pass new immigration laws because it might affect elections.

so, not really "no oversight" more like "oversight that helps my re-election chances".  or fundraising

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Judge threatens to hold AG Sessions in contempt of court.

Basic summary... During an asylum hearing, the judge was informed the mother and daughter seeking asylum had been put on a plane and deported, despite the govt's attorney promising the judge that wouldn't happen until after the case was resolved. Outraged, the judge ordered the plane turned around,  and threatens to hold Sessions in contempt. 

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/judge-orders-plane-carrying-deported-mother-child-turned-around-blocks-n899311

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Did anyone know that ICE owns an airline - ICE Air, used to fly deportees wherever?

Access to 10 737s,  dispatched from airports in five hub cities: Mesa, Arizona; San Antonio and Brownsville, Texas; Alexandria, Louisiana; and Miami.

What have we come to?

 

image.png.16d867cc60c4e54b2ccc6a88d4ff7824.png

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Donald J. TrumpGeverifieerd account @realDonaldTrump

Democrats want Open Borders and they want to abolish ICE, the brave men and women that are protecting our Country from some of the most vicious and dangerous people on earth! Sorry, we can’t let that happen! Also, change the rules in the Senate and approve STRONG Border Security!

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Well I am not sure anymore what’s right other than at least here the system is overwhelmed in the NY area many of my relatives our social workers and there is a fairly large staff that terminates parental custody and always has been 

There our 60,000 in foster care and another 9000  unaccompanied minors just on Long Island and this is really stressing the systems ability to provide anything close to good care 

If you curious in the Industrial Park I work in Center for Hope has turned a large amount of buildings into housing for at risk youth and I guess it’s better than nothing but growing up in and industrial park has gotta suck and somebody is getting a lot of money to call this a good standard of care 

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14 minutes ago, tommays said:

Well I am not sure anymore what’s right other than at least here the system is overwhelmed in the NY area many of my relatives our social workers and there is a fairly large staff that terminates parental custody and always has been 

There our 60,000 in foster care and another 9000  unaccompanied minors just on Long Island and this is really stressing the systems ability to provide anything close to good care 

If you curious in the Industrial Park I work in Center for Hope has turned a large amount of buildings into housing for at risk youth and I guess it’s better than nothing but growing up in and industrial park has gotta suck and somebody is getting a lot of money to call this a good standard of care

 

14 minutes ago, tommays said:

Well I am not sure anymore what’s right, other than, at least here, the system is overwhelmed in the NY area. Many of my relatives our are social workers and there is a fairly large staff that terminates parental custody. Always has been. 

There our are 60,000 in foster care and another 9000  unaccompanied minors just on Long Island and this is really stressing the systems ability to provide anything close to good care. 

If you're curious, the Industrial Park I work in (Center for Hope) has turned a large amount number of buildings into housing for "at risk" youth and I guess it’s better than nothing. But growing up in and an industrial park has gotta suck and somebody is getting a lot of money to call this a good standard of care. 

sorry, I was going cross eyed looking for a full stop and got carried away.

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10 hours ago, P_Wop said:

Did anyone know that ICE owns an airline - ICE Air, used to fly deportees wherever?

Access to 10 737s,  dispatched from airports in five hub cities: Mesa, Arizona; San Antonio and Brownsville, Texas; Alexandria, Louisiana; and Miami.

What have we come to?

 

image.png.16d867cc60c4e54b2ccc6a88d4ff7824.png

Abu Ghraib?

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On 8/6/2018 at 1:50 AM, P_Wop said:

ICE

I've now simmered down enough to discuss this.

A couple of weeks ago I was walking along a downtown street here in the very epicenter of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto CA, chatting loudly to a mate on the phone about a tech deal in which we were both involved.  It was University Avenue, the heart of everything technological.  Mid afternoon.

I've been here for 24 years, and despite being a multinational citizen (Australian and British) I've had a green card for 15 years, and a US passport for 4 years.  My accent, however, seems not to have dissipated, despite what they say in London when I visit family.

Anyway I was accosted on the street by three non-uniformed ICE goons, who abruptly asked me if I was a citizen, because I didn't sound like one.  Of course I requested their credentials, which were produced with resistance.  They looked kosher, but how can you tell?  

I asked why they had stopped me and what was their purpose.  As the ICE, we have absolute authority within 100 miles of a US border, I was told, and you're 25 miles from the Pacific Ocean, so we can ask you what we want to.  We are in control here.  Are you a US citizen?

WTF?

I produced my CA drivers license and US Passport card (the little credit-card size one that is good to carry if you're going to Canada or the Caribbean or Mexico) and they looked amazed at it as they'd never seen one before and thought it was bogus.  Fuck their training.  

BTW, if you don't have one of those US Passport cards, get one and stuff it in your wallet.  It's the best ID you can have.

Luckily my car was nearby so I triggered the red button on the remote keyfob in my pocket for immediate audible alarm and as the Palo Alto Police came round the corner a couple of minutes later, the three goons simply said all was in order and handed me back my CA driver license and passport card and moved away.

A bit shaken up, I can tell you.  WTF?  WTFF?  WTFFF?  WTFFFFFFFFF?

I can tell you WTF.

This is just not a topic of much interest, which is why this post got no responses:

On 7/26/2018 at 6:06 AM, Uncooperative Tom said:

Damon Root says that "border" searches of cellphones will go to the Supreme Court

I put "border" in quotes because the border is kinda big in my view. It includes Florida. Yes, the whole state is "the border" so cellphones are not safe anywhere. Maine either. Or Hawaii. Michigan. Lots of states consist entirely of "the border."

web18-100miborder-map-2400x1000px-v01.jp

 

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On 8/6/2018 at 9:21 AM, P_Wop said:

OK, I've talked to the Palo Alto Deputy Chief of Police yesterday, who had no idea this was happening, but he said will alert his team to be on the lookout.  He was equally appalled.  

I have a call scheduled today with the Lieutenant Governor (about to be Governor) of California, and will raise the same stink with him too.

And no, I wasn't loud on the phone. Just trying to get above the ever-present noise of construction on this street.

What is it coming to?

Are you Gay?  Are you a cute blond woman?  You aren’t an “Illegal Alien” from the situation that you described. Unfortunately, you don’t hit any of the required Bleeding Heart Liberal check boxes for Gavin “Hair Gel” Newsom to have a look.  

 

While I haven’t had any issues with ICE, I’ve been through many driver’s license checks in SoCal.  Something that doesn’t happen as much, as the DMV hands them out to anyone.  But basically, they were a mix of an Immigration and DUI Checkpoint.  As I was neither drunk, nor an Illegal Alien, I was allowed to pass without any fuss.  While I was mildly put off by the delay, I do see the need for these checks.

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I would so support ICE paying a visit to a certain Canadian living in Florida.

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Just don't let the fuckers deport him.

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58 minutes ago, silent bob said:

While I haven’t had any issues with ICE, I’ve been through many driver’s license checks in SoCal.  Something that doesn’t happen as much, as the DMV hands them out to anyone.  But basically, they were a mix of an Immigration and DUI Checkpoint.  As I was neither drunk, nor an Illegal Alien, I was allowed to pass without any fuss.  While I was mildly put off by the delay, I do see the need for these checks.

Specifically, that "need" would be a general presumption of guilt. It's the sort of "need" that got us a fourth amendment.

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What is due process if a legal (citizen who didn’t look ‘American’ enough, or legal guest) failed to produce documentation?    Are you arrested and hauled off, with one phone call?   At what point do you find yourself dumped in Mexico?

 

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http://theweek.com/articles/750212/trump-about-deport-american-citizen

Looks like being a legally practicing Polish born physician isn’t good enough, if you have driving infractions and misbehaved as a teenager.    His medical license is in good standing, he may qualify as a naturalized citizen, but his green card was revoked and he had to call his wife from jail and say he wasn’t coming home any more.    He was guilty of  bad parking, speeding and not wearing a seat belt.

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

that guy must be one of the worst drivers, ever.

Nature or nurture?   

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8 minutes ago, Lark said:

http://theweek.com/articles/750212/trump-about-deport-american-citizen

Looks like being a legally practicing Polish born physician isn’t good enough, if you have driving infractions and misbehaved as a teenager.    His medical license is in good standing, he may qualify as a naturalized citizen, but his green card was revoked and he had to call his wife from jail and say he wasn’t coming home any more.    He was guilty of  bad parking, speeding and not wearing a seat belt.

the only thing he was guilty of was not having rich, connected, trumpkin friends.

gotta pay your bribes guys, this is Trumpmurica.

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4 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

the only thing he was guilty of was not having rich, connected, trumpkin friends.

gotta pay your bribes guys, this is Trumpmurica.

If only he was a part of Trump inner circle charged with money laundering, tax evasion, embezzlement, fraud, or being an unregistered foreign agent... He'd be eligible for a pardon. 

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16 hours ago, Lark said:

http://theweek.com/articles/750212/trump-about-deport-american-citizen

Looks like being a legally practicing Polish born physician isn’t good enough, if you have driving infractions and misbehaved as a teenager.    His medical license is in good standing, he may qualify as a naturalized citizen, but his green card was revoked and he had to call his wife from jail and say he wasn’t coming home any more.    He was guilty of  bad parking, speeding and not wearing a seat belt.

from the study imbedded in the article:

Recent data suggests that in 2010 well over 4,000 U.S. citizens were detained or deported as aliens, raising the total since 2003 to more than 20,000

so, not a new phenomenon.  the study comes to some reasonable conclusions on how to change immigration laws, be nice if that could happen. 

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16 hours ago, RKoch said:

If only he was a part of Trump inner circle charged with money laundering, tax evasion, embezzlement, fraud, or being an unregistered foreign agent... He'd be eligible for a pardon. 

A pardon? Hell they would find him a job in the West Wing at something north of $150k/year.

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4 hours ago, hermetic said:

from the study imbedded in the article:

Recent data suggests that in 2010 well over 4,000 U.S. citizens were detained or deported as aliens, raising the total since 2003 to more than 20,000

so, not a new phenomenon.  the study comes to some reasonable conclusions on how to change immigration laws, be nice if that could happen. 

No it isn’t new, hence the Cheech video.    Our xenophobia is getting personal though.   We no longer hesitate to tear apart even husband and wife or parent and child.   There are millions of Americans like me that are at risk of losing those they care about, not just Mrs Niec of the  article.    These are people that managed to get a green card, not just asylum seekers that preferred America to death.    

Not only can the two parties not agree to make progress on immigration, the Republicans cannot do it unilaterally despite owning all of government except a few judges.    Deport ALL politicians and start fresh!     

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6 minutes ago, Lark said:
4 hours ago, hermetic said:

from the study imbedded in the article:

Recent data suggests that in 2010 well over 4,000 U.S. citizens were detained or deported as aliens, raising the total since 2003 to more than 20,000

so, not a new phenomenon.  the study comes to some reasonable conclusions on how to change immigration laws, be nice if that could happen. 

Our xenophobia is getting personal though.   We no longer hesitate to tear apart even husband and wifely parent and child.   There are millions of Americans like me that are at risk of losing those they care about, not just Mrs Niec of the  article.    These are people that managed to get a green card, not just asylum seekers that preferred America to death.       

per the study, this also is not a new phenomenon

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On 8/10/2018 at 5:31 PM, LeoV said:

Donald J. TrumpGeverifieerd account @realDonaldTrump

Democrats want Open Borders and they want to abolish ICE, the brave men and women that are protecting our Country from some of the most vicious and dangerous people on earth! Sorry, we can’t let that happen! Also, change the rules in the Senate and approve STRONG Border Security!

3 years olds freak me out too

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6 hours ago, hermetic said:

per the study, this also is not a new phenomenon

Used to be the government wouldn’t force a wife to leave America just so she could live with her man (assuming his country was more open minded to immigrants then America).    

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5 hours ago, Gutterblack said:

3 years olds freak me out too

One of my 3 granddaughters is a 3 1/2 year old blue eyed blonde.  Today she's wearing a shirt: I'm not bossy, I have leadership skills.

My poor son.

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On 8/10/2018 at 4:27 PM, Lark said:

http://theweek.com/articles/750212/trump-about-deport-american-citizen

Looks like being a legally practicing Polish born physician isn’t good enough, if you have driving infractions and misbehaved as a teenager.    His medical license is in good standing, he may qualify as a naturalized citizen, but his green card was revoked and he had to call his wife from jail and say he wasn’t coming home any more.    He was guilty of  bad parking, speeding and not wearing a seat belt.

Quote

According to a notice issued by the Department of Homeland Security, Niec has been taken into custody because he has been convicted of "crimes of moral turpitude." In January 1992, at the age of 17, he was convicted of destruction of property; in April of the same year he pled guilty to receiving stolen property valued at $100 or more.

I was a bit younger and didn't get caught but was guilty of similar moral turpentine.

And you forgot to mention the driving without insurance. The horror.

Quote

Despite the unexpectedness of his arrest and uncertainty of his present situation, Niec himself has remained in "good spirits" and taken an interest in the cases of his fellow inmates, according to multiple people who have spoken with him from jail by telephone. "You'd have to know Lucasz," said Rathburn. "He's always positive. He never gets angry. He's just shocked."

If we succeed in sending him to Poland, our loss will be their gain.

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Here's another nugget.  The US border for ICE purposes is 100 miles, as above.  But there's a proposal to make that 100 miles of any port-of-entry, which includes all international airports.  Denver?  Dallas?  Chicago?  Kansas City?

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12 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

Here's another nugget.  The US border for ICE purposes is 100 miles, as above.  But there's a proposal to make that 100 miles of any port-of-entry, which includes all international airports.  Denver?  Dallas?  Chicago?  Kansas City?

Ignoring the fact that the US establishes its territorial boundary at 12 nautical miles (or, for the mentally challenged, 13.6 miles) off shore, and all bays and rivers are considered inland as the territorial limit is viewed as measured from a line extending across the mouths of those features.   

Can't have it both ways.  Unless you are this particular administration, of course.

I would bet that the 100 mile zone on the ICE map doesn't begin at the territorial limit.  

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1 hour ago, Ishmael said:

13c9c314-e0e7-46b9-808a-66b3a6af5cb8.png

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/us/border-zone-immigration-checks/index.html

I thought I posted this already...but it disappeared.

Indeed. 

Now I need to find a map of all US international airports that have a customs and immigration service, i.e. which are U.S. ports of entry. 

Sea and river ports too, for that matter.  I did immigration once in Memphis TN after a yacht delivery from the BVI.  Memphis was our port of entry.  I had a passport stamp to prove it.

I'm not sure where to get that map.  But I would think that a 100 mile circle round all of those would include not just 66% of the US population, but closer to 90%.

Hmmm.....

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57 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

Indeed. 

Now I need to find a map of all US international airports that have a customs and immigration service, i.e. which are U.S. ports of entry. 

Sea and river ports too, for that matter.  I did immigration once in Memphis TN after a yacht delivery from the BVI.  Memphis was our port of entry.  I had a passport stamp to prove it.

I'm not sure where to get that map.  But I would think that a 100 mile circle round all of those would include not just 66% of the US population, but closer to 90%.

Hmmm.....

The definition of the US border was set by Reagan and confirmed by legislation.  It does NOT include inland waterways.  Using the actual border rather than the shoreline (as on this map) would eliminate all of Illinois and Indiana, most of Minnesota and Wisconsin, much of Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and North Carolina from this map.  Significant areas in Washington, New York and Ohio would be out of ICE land. 

You can see the Canada/US border in the Great Lakes on the map.  ICE, alone among all other agencies, apparently does not recognize it.  

Time for some geographers and lawyers to get involved.  Ignoring the obscenity of the ICE snatch and grab policies, the land grab of "authority" by ICE needs to be pushed back.

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5 hours ago, Left Shift said:

The definition of the US border was set by Reagan and confirmed by legislation.  It does NOT include inland waterways.  Using the actual border rather than the shoreline (as on this map) would eliminate all of Illinois and Indiana, most of Minnesota and Wisconsin, much of Michigan, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and North Carolina from this map.  Significant areas in Washington, New York and Ohio would be out of ICE land. 

You can see the Canada/US border in the Great Lakes on the map.  ICE, alone among all other agencies, apparently does not recognize it.  

Time for some geographers and lawyers to get involved.  Ignoring the obscenity of the ICE snatch and grab policies, the land grab of "authority" by ICE needs to be pushed back.

Which still gets us back to the point that we got along fine before ICE. It was created the same time as DHS.. neither is necessary.

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8 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Ignoring the fact that the US establishes its territorial boundary at 12 nautical miles (or, for the mentally challenged, 13.6 miles) off shore, and all bays and rivers are considered inland as the territorial limit is viewed as measured from a line extending across the mouths of those features.   

Can't have it both ways.  Unless you are this particular administration, of course.

I would bet that the 100 mile zone on the ICE map doesn't begin at the territorial limit.  

If it began at the territorial limit, it would only extend on shore about 90 miles instead of 100.

Which would kind of miss the point of extending ICE's warrantless searching authority inland.

5 hours ago, Left Shift said:

The definition of the US border was set by Reagan and confirmed by legislation. 

We didn't have a border before Saint Ronald?

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4 hours ago, RKoch said:

Which still gets us back to the point that we got along fine before ICE. It was created the same time as DHS.. neither is necessary.

was it a nicer department when it was called the ins?

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1 hour ago, hermetic said:
6 hours ago, RKoch said:

Which still gets us back to the point that we got along fine before ICE. It was created the same time as DHS.. neither is necessary.

was it a nicer department when it was called the ins?

I dunno, I observed INS in Ft Lauderdale being very assholish to a nice Australian couple who were coming to the USA for an American friends' wedding. Something about a return plane ticket years ago that they didn't use, as the Australian couple explained, because it was cheaper to buy a round-trip ticket than one way.

The bureaucracy itself is less important than the individuals involved, but it's also true that each organization has a sort of culture. When an organization gets to have the culture of being sadistic assholes, because they can..... say for example, a staff of sports team coaches....... that is bad. When it's a gov't organization with power over peoples' lives, it should be intolerable to the rest of the country.

-DSK

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

I dunno, I observed INS in Ft Lauderdale being very assholish to a nice Australian couple who were coming to the USA for an American friends' wedding. Something about a return plane ticket years ago that they didn't use, as the Australian couple explained, because it was cheaper to buy a round-trip ticket than one way.

The bureaucracy itself is less important than the individuals involved, but it's also true that each organization has a sort of culture. When an organization gets to have the culture of being sadistic assholes, because they can..... say for example, a staff of sports team coaches....... that is bad. When it's a gov't organization with power over peoples' lives, it should be intolerable to the rest of the country.

-DSK

I’ve ditched the return ticket more than once over the years, that’s me fucked then. 

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7 hours ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

If it began at the territorial limit, it would only extend on shore about 90 miles instead of 100.

Which would kind of miss the point of extending ICE's warrantless searching authority inland.

We didn't have a border before Saint Ronald?

ICE's warrantless search authority is the huge problem.

But my point was that the application of their policy is technically flawed.  For example, along the northern border, which is legally defined and mapped, it should exclude most of the central industrial states as I noted above.  Contrary to their map.  

We obviously had a border before the big ham actor was elected, but he issued a proclamation, later codified by congress, to move it out from 3 nautical miles to 12 nautical miles.  The exclusive economic zone was set separately at 200 miles.

To be noted, as long as most immigration was by white people (and the Irish) we had essentially open borders for immigration through the 18th to the mid-20th Century.  Show up and you were let in, even if you only spoke German like Trump's grandaddy and grandma.  This was, of course, subject to several racist "alien exclusion" acts aimed at brown/yellow perils.  But the railroads got around that.  

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I'm sorry this happened to you, but honestly, this is a good thing.

The INS has been fucking mercilessly with brown people who speak Spanish for decades, and doing it with impunity. Meanwhile, they've been mostly oblivious to all the Canadians, Irish, Germans Brits and Australians wandering around the country. Now they're suddenly doing it to wealthy English speakers ... in this case, just one Sailing Anarchist. The Palo Alto police were consulted and a phone meeting with the Lieutenant Governor is scheduled.

Perhaps now there will be a tiny bit more scrutiny to what they do. If they can't continue to racially profile people (which is apparently what they were doing when they stopped this Sailing Anarchist) then they might have to revise their policy.

I know a Chicano kid, born and raised in Colorado, who was detained for hours in Texas because he didn't have his ID. And yet I've known at least ten Australians/Brits when I was in NYC who have long overstayed their visas for reasons as varied as Phish, an acting gig, and a weed dealership and they never had a lick of trouble.

Of course, they're still going to be oblivious to all the Americans who hire illegally, but maybe this is a start.

 

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27 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I'm sorry this happened to you, but honestly, this is a good thing.

The INS has been fucking mercilessly with brown people who speak Spanish for decades, and doing it with impunity. Meanwhile, they've been mostly oblivious to all the Canadians, Irish, Germans Brits and Australians wandering around the country. Now they're suddenly doing it to wealthy English speakers ... in this case, just one Sailing Anarchist. The Palo Alto police were consulted and a phone meeting with the Lieutenant Governor is scheduled.

Perhaps now there will be a tiny bit more scrutiny to what they do. If they can't continue to racially profile people (which is apparently what they were doing when they stopped this Sailing Anarchist) then they might have to revise their policy.

I know a Chicano kid, born and raised in Colorado, who was detained for hours in Texas because he didn't have his ID. And yet I've known at least ten Australians/Brits when I was in NYC who have long overstayed their visas for reasons as varied as Phish, an acting gig, and a weed dealership and they never had a lick of trouble.

Of course, they're still going to be oblivious to all the Americans who hire illegally, but maybe this is a start.

 

Good onya, Mike, you occasionally speak good sense.

-DSK

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