Alan H

Piper Lines Plans -David Boyds original drawings 1965

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When I bought the Piper One Design, the class sent me some files...the sail plan and so on. What I did NOT expect to get was a high res scan of David  Boyds original lines plan drawing for the boat, from 1965.  A lot of folks will shrug and say *meh*  but I know at least a couple of you will get a kick out of this...  (some guy named "Robert Perry", for instance, and some other guy named "Will Porter", too.. LOL )

 

Here ya go. It's a 5 mbyte file, it's pretty big.  SA's ' image-bot reduced the size so you can view it, but if you click on the image you can get to a much higher res version.  Old Skool, hand drawn with love, care and skill.  This is pretty sweet.

 

Piper%20Lines_edited-1.jpg

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Like Bob wrote, 'back in the 90's when reviewing the Cornish Crabbers revamp of the Piper, and talking about David Boyd... "Sit up, spit out your gum, and pay attention. This is important"...

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Interesting, handsome boat. The reverse transom looks neat on that big stern overhang. Bow sections were very full back then compared to now! I also see a very slight "wobble" in the sheer between stations 9 and 11, but as it's a scan and the waterlines in profile also wobble there, I'm guessing that's just a wrinkle in the sheet.

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Beautiful, Alan. Thanks.

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On 8/8/2018 at 7:44 PM, Alan H said:

When I bought the Piper One Design, the class sent me some files...the sail plan and so on. What I did NOT expect to get was a high res scan of David  Boyds original lines plan drawing for the boat, from 1965.  A lot of folks will shrug and say *meh*  but I know at least a couple of you will get a kick out of this...  (some guy named "Robert Perry", for instance, and some other guy named "Will Porter", too.. LOL )

 

Here ya go. It's a 5 mbyte file, it's pretty big.  SA's ' image-bot reduced the size so you can view it, but if you click on the image you can get to a much higher res version.  Old Skool, hand drawn with love, care and skill.  This is pretty sweet.

 

Piper%20Lines_edited-1.jpg

As I’m sure you know, still being built in Cornwall by Rustler Boats, as the Rustler 24. 

There was a good article about Boyd in a recent Classic Boat mag. It made a decent case for him that the failure of his two America’s Cup boats wasn’t his fault. 

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I like the shape of the rudder. So many boats worked to reduce their shape and this one didn’t go too far.

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Did they use battens to draw this?

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16 hours ago, Bull City said:

Did they use battens to draw this?

I have no idea.  I'm sure Bob would know.

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1 hour ago, Alan H said:

I have no idea.  I'm sure Bob would know.

Speaking of Bob Perry, and the beautiful lines and overhangs of the Piper, the just out issue of Sailing magazine has Bob's review of the Eagle 37, a sexy European daysailer with 10 feet of overhangs, and a modern underbody. It also contains Bob's interesting discussion of overhangs.

Unfortunately, the September issue is not yet on-line, so I can't provide the text or a link. I'll try again in a few days.

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Battens are used for fairing the lines when you go full scale on the floor lifting those line to full size. There is a table of offsets that have each station from bow to stern listed with locations marked in feet, inches and eighth inch increments. “SIMPLY” transfer the information described in the offsets as a series of points and take the fairing batten and use it to connect the dots and a beautiful sheer appears, the stem shape, the stern, the turn of the bilges..and if anything is off you can see it with the eye and check the offsets against any quirk. Sometimes a line gets plotted and doesn’t come out looking right and the batten will let you see it and correct it. 

Been 20 years but I think it hasn’t changed too much 

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Sailforbeer, I am just finishing up a proa that was drawn on a computer{metric] it was fair to .5mm no batten work  needed.  I miss the time to imagine water flow and dream a little. It just seemed like I was not part of something big before, kind of like a midwife.  Must be getting old.  I wonder if someday folks are going to reminisce about peel ply patterns.

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It’s a wonderful thing to be able to read and interpret line drawings. Of course, the individuals who do this saw the finished product before the pen, paper and ducks started moving around. I am lucky enough to see the end in the projects I take on, however, I am not going to begin to study for an NA degree. That’s way too much science for me!

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Mr. Ed:

Thanks for posting that lines plan. Very interesting. It does not show much care in the drafting or presentation. Almost looks like who drew it was not very interested in producing a great design. "Here, this will do."

 

Yes, that drawing was done with battens and spline weights along with a selection of ship's curves. You can see where most of the erasing was done in the hard to fair areas. For Boyd any way. Odd that he scrubbed away on that upper diagonal aft./ That should have been a piece of cake to fair. By there it's pretty much a straight line or close to one.

 

What puzzles me is the double DWL aft in plan view. What's going on there. "Here's the DWL."      "No, forget that. Here's the DWL."    " No, forget that. Let's go with both of them." Why leave both on the drawing? Builder's option?

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I don't get the huge overhangs on such a small boat...only 16' of waterline on a 24' boat? Besides being rather slow, it's going to trim poorly with 2 people in the cockpit. Overhangs belong on larger boats, boats that size should be pretty short-ended....think BCC or a Perry style. 

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On 8/15/2018 at 4:11 PM, Bull City said:

Speaking of Bob Perry, and the beautiful lines and overhangs of the Piper, the just out issue of Sailing magazine has Bob's review of the Eagle 37, a sexy European daysailer with 10 feet of overhangs, and a modern underbody. It also contains Bob's interesting discussion of overhangs.

Unfortunately, the September issue is not yet on-line, so I can't provide the text or a link. I'll try again in a few days.

Still not available. I'll keep on checking.

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Hey I've been lazily waiting until someone posted a nice set of drawings of a worthy boat like this so I could have fun lofting and making the hull in Solidworks. It's quite satisfying to get the splines to line up with the hand drawn lines, which is remarkably easy (not all these are finished) Here is the start, more to come

Inital Loft - Front View -small.png

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On 8/15/2018 at 4:11 PM, Bull City said:

Speaking of Bob Perry, and the beautiful lines and overhangs of the Piper, the just out issue of Sailing magazine has Bob's review of the Eagle 37, a sexy European daysailer with 10 feet of overhangs, and a modern underbody. It also contains Bob's interesting discussion of overhangs.

Unfortunately, the September issue is not yet on-line, so I can't provide the text or a link. I'll try again in a few days.

As promised. Here is the portion of Bob's review of the Eagle 37 in Sailing Magazine (September 2018), where he discusses overhangs. I think it's very informative:

Today we see overhangs as being very traditional. But if you go back to around 1880 and watch how yacht design progressed you will quickly see that overhangs developed as a function on the various handicap or “rating” rules that came and went. Almost all the early rules up to the CCA rule penalized DWL in some way. In order to keep your rating low while gaining sailing length, call it “hull speed” if you like, overhangs were drawn out with the idea that when the boat heels more, more boat will  be in the water. 

But you need to make a distinction between “in the water” and “on the water.” For overhangs to contribute to sailing length at any angle of heel they must be immersed. Simply dangling some pretty parts of the boat feet above the water plane may look picturesque but it is not adding to sailing length. True, in some case overhangs can dampen pitching and make the boat faster. But that can happen at zero degrees of heel. Some overhang aft is good to clean up the wake and prevent the hull from dragging the transom as it heels. 

But it’s pretty clear today that a plumb bow is faster than a bow with overhang for a given LOA. I can’t think of a case where you would want to give up static DWL. When rating rules changed to measure girths in the ends of the boat to evaluate sailing length gained, overhangs began to shrink. If you look at the box rule boats popular today you will see minimal overhangs and it’s all aft.

I can remember watching the successful America’s Cup winner Black Magic, designed by Laurie Davidson, sailing upwind, well heeled over. If you looked at the stern and how the water peeled off the counter it almost looked like they had built the boat longer. The New Zealand team went sailing and had a crew member hang over the leeward quarter with a piece of chalk and draw a line where the water was. “Cut here!” There was no overhang aft that was not doing work.

But the appeal of overhangs today is not about these pragmatic issues. It’s all about restoring the nostalgic look of older, more graceful looking yachts,

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On 8/20/2018 at 6:08 PM, Foiling Optimist said:

Hey I've been lazily waiting until someone posted a nice set of drawings of a worthy boat like this so I could have fun lofting and making the hull in Solidworks. It's quite satisfying to get the splines to line up with the hand drawn lines, which is remarkably easy (not all these are finished) Here is the start, more to come

Inital Loft - Front View -small.png

Whoah, whoah....

 

 

I'm uneducated in this department. Could someone take the file from Solidworks and  print it on a 3-D printer?

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On 8/21/2018 at 12:14 AM, Bob Perry said:

My editor let me be a smart ass.

You used that licence deliciously.

Eagle 37 review is now online at http://sailingmagazine.net/article-2008-eagle-37.html

It includes several gems, but I love this bit: "I’m sure this is a very nice sailing boat as long as you don’t mind sacrificing 10 feet 10 inches to overhangs"  :D :D 

If you are found at the bottom of the lake with concrete wellies and an icepick through your vitals, the cops will be knocking on the door of Leonardo Yachts.

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1 hour ago, Alan H said:

Whoah, whoah....

 

 

I'm uneducated in this department. Could someone take the file from Solidworks and  print it on a 3-D printer?

Yes you could certainly 3D print it. I was thinking about surfacing it in aluminum on a CNC machine. It's a bit on the back burner right now because I'm helping a friend with his eccentric electric vehicle and as Bob P pointed out above this drawing is a bit half assed and actually a bit difficult to interpret. But we'll get there...

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