SloopJonB

Mo Bettah Too

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I'm no longer boatless. ^_^ I finally managed to get this Nelson/Marek 1/2 Tonner bought today after nearly 5 months of trying. Now I just have to get it 100 miles down the coast to home. It has reputedly hit 12 knots so it might be a fast trip if I get a nice Northwesterly. On the sail test today we stayed at 6 knots beating into a very light breeze while trying to figure out sail trim - it's a very quick boat. I included a shot of the underbody to show that it is not the usual distorted IOR stern - that probably explains the speed.

These are the best pics I have right now. Don't know why the stern shot rotated - I can't correct it. The boat is not a zombie but it is the far end of scruffy so I've got lots of projects ahead of me. I'll post the interesting stuff as it happens. It is one of the best constructed boats I've ever seen - the interior structure, bulkheads etc. are so well done and finished that they look almost like a liner. Not a hint of a soft spot or delam anywhere on the hull or deck.

It seems to be a well known boat around the Salish Sea but I'm having trouble finding anything specific about it. I'd really appreciate it if anyone can advise who built it (someone in Seattle as best I can determine), any specs on it or who can put me in touch with the original owner so I can glean some data on it.

 

 

2017-09-05 11.34.20.jpg

2018-03-18 13.06.49.jpg

2018-03-18 12.35.58.jpg

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I sailed against it at PITCH one year when it was only a year or so old - it more or less did a horizon job on the 3/4 ton fleet. I think Scott Rohrer was steering the boat and may even have owned it.  Maxx Baqustae was around back in that day - maybe PM him about it.  Great boat, glad to see it is in good hands.  You are going to race it, right?  And you are going to FOP it first?

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She won her division in Swiftsure in 1985 and 1988.  No name listed, just the boat.

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2 hours ago, dash34 said:

I sailed against it at PITCH one year when it was only a year or so old - it more or less did a horizon job on the 3/4 ton fleet. I think Scott Rohrer was steering the boat and may even have owned it.  Maxx Baqustae was around back in that day - maybe PM him about it.  Great boat, glad to see it is in good hands.  You are going to race it, right?  And you are going to FOP it first?

Must have been the same year I was there.  Yeah, I recall this HT finishing ahead of all the 3/4T in every race and in the middle of the 1T (aka Peterson 35) fleet.  Pretty light air series on the whole that year though.  Maybe '82 or '83?

The name I associate her with is Chuck Pepkah.

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Cool! Always liked that boat, congrats SJB!

 

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Is she a double diagonal planked boat ?

Have sailed on one of their 1Tonner's . Almost a work of art .

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10 hours ago, dash34 said:

I sailed against it at PITCH one year when it was only a year or so old - it more or less did a horizon job on the 3/4 ton fleet. I think Scott Rohrer was steering the boat and may even have owned it.  Maxx Baqustae was around back in that day - maybe PM him about it.  Great boat, glad to see it is in good hands.  You are going to race it, right?  And you are going to FOP it first?

Not planning to race it - just want to go fast.

I'm not capable of FOP-ing it - I don't have that mad level of skilz - but I'll do my best.

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4 hours ago, Justaquickone said:

Is she a double diagonal planked boat ?

No - glass. I'm told it's single skin with a foam core deck but that's one of the things I'd like to confirm from someone who was there. The complete lack of soft spots or delam combined with lots of leaking fasteners tends to confirm the foam deck but I'd like specifics like what kind of foam, was epoxy used or poly resin - all that stuff.

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Oh fun! Congrats on the new ride. Nice wide sidedecks, despite the inboard shrouds; and is that the original boom, or has the E been lengthened? When ratings aren't the game,  these tonners can really benefit from a larger main and 135% headsail. Doesn't really change the CofE, but sure as hell makes tacking easier! We plan to do that on the Ballad halfton eventually.

Speedy looking bugger -- not much wetted surface! Of course,  with IORs you have to sometimes count the coachroof as wetted surface, but we know that going in.... ;)

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AFAIK the entire boat except sails is original - right down to the wire halyards with meathooks. :D I found this pics which shows the rig proportions.

The sail test I described above was with a 100 Jib - the boat's a flier.

 

2018-03-18 13.07.29.jpg

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Nice find!  

 

Did you think about calling Bruce Nelson or Greg Stewart at Nelson/Marek?  Nice guys, as long as no one gets tossed in the water.

 

(619) 224-6347

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No I didn't - cheers.

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Not planning to race it - just want to go fast.

I'm not capable of FOP-ing it - I don't have that mad level of skilz - but I'll do my best.

WTF is FOP?

3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

No - glass. I'm told it's single skin with a foam core deck but that's one of the things I'd like to confirm from someone who was there. The complete lack of soft spots or delam combined with lots of leaking fasteners tends to confirm the foam deck but I'd like specifics like what kind of foam, was epoxy used or poly resin - all that stuff.

If single skin, it would have a significant array of stringers and frames for stiffening.  If more monocoque in construction, then likely cored hull.

I had a boat with a foam cored deck and would never consider one again.  Core was wet for the most part and partially delaminated.  Upon cutting the core out in the delaminated section, the spooge used to bond the core to the glass was spotty at best and crumbled quite easily.  The foam cored hull on the other hand was perfectly fine.  Overall, I would choose balsa over foam for hull and deck any day.  the exception being Corecell. 

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FOP was the handle of a Swedish guy who did an incredible rebuild of a laminated Two Tonner a couple or three years ago - it was well detailed in a thread here.

If you know what "billet" means in regards to hot rods, well that was the sort of skill he brought to bear - hand machined parts as required.

I'm not worthy. :D Here's the link - prepare to be humbled.

MBT has the sort of framing you describe. I sounded every inch of the hull & deck and found nothing - even my 200+ Lbs didn't deflect anything, anywhere.

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11 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

FOP was the handle of a Swedish guy who did an incredible rebuild of a laminated Two Tonner a couple or three years ago - it was well detailed in a thread here.

If you know what "billet" means in regards to hot rods, well that was the sort of skill he brought to bear - hand machined parts as required.

I'm not worthy. :D

MBT has the sort of framing you describe. I sounded every inch of the hull & deck and found nothing - even my 200+ Lbs didn't deflect anything, anywhere.

Ah yes, the Flirt Of Paget refit (if that's even near the proper term).  Yes, incredible.  Much better than new I suspect.  Almost a museum piece.  I can't imagine how much it would have cost to have contracted that job out - if you could even find one capable of such work.

Foam deck I'm sure is fine on an apparently well built one-off such as this one.  I was referring more to production boats.  Also, I committed the mistake of buying hull #1.  I had hull #2 before that and it was fine at the time, but that was almost 30 years ago.

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11 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Must have been the same year I was there.  Yeah, I recall this HT finishing ahead of all the 3/4T in every race and in the middle of the 1T (aka Peterson 35) fleet.  Pretty light air series on the whole that year though.  Maybe '82 or '83?

The name I associate her with is Chuck Pepkah.

Chuck Pepka.

This looks like him, but it's been a long time, could be his son.

https://www.facebook.com/chuck.pepka

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I saw that page too, pretty sure it's him.

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On 8/9/2018 at 10:25 AM, SloopJonB said:

AFAIK the entire boat except sails is original - right down to the wire halyards with meathooks. :D I found this pics which shows the rig proportions.

The sail test I described above was with a 100 Jib - the boat's a flier.

 

2018-03-18 13.07.29.jpg

sure has the forestay on tight... too tight and the inners are way too loose..  gotta loosen everything up, center,  tighten up the inners , the front read...  the tight inners will keep that huge bow out of the mast..   she looks a lot of fun..   can't wait to see the pics as you hit each project..

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Yeah, I figured that big pre-bend was a bit much. The current owner said the sails were cut for it but I'm not so sure - there were a couple of creases in the battened main that wouldn't come out in the light wind we sailed it in.

I'll be getting a rigger in to survey it and give me advice on tuning it - I'm not experienced with setting up super bendy rigs.

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59 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Yeah, I figured that big pre-bend was a bit much. The current owner said the sails were cut for it but I'm not so sure - there were a couple of creases in the battened main that wouldn't come out in the light wind we sailed it in.

I'll be getting a rigger in to survey it and give me advice on tuning it - I'm not experienced with setting up super bendy rigs.

the fractional rig is counter-intuitive sometimes..   i laugh at some of the guys in the fleet who loosen their backstay and tighten the forestay thinking they're raking the mast forward..

 

does it have runners?

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  Should definitely have runners & checks, too. There is too much topmast for it to be a B/S only rig, the jumpers are almost in-line, & the shrouds also. They don't show in the pics, might have been removed??

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That photo shows why you shouldn't leave the boom and mainsail on the topping lift

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It's got them. The checks have been removed but are still onboard.

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22 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

sure has the forestay on tight... too tight and the inners are way too loose..  gotta loosen everything up, center,  tighten up the inners , the front read...  the tight inners will keep that huge bow out of the mast..   she looks a lot of fun..   can't wait to see the pics as you hit each project..

On a boat that has inline shrouds and spreaders along with runners and checkstays, exactly how does that work? 

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On 8/9/2018 at 8:15 PM, 12 metre said:

 

WTF is FOP?

If single skin, it would have a significant array of stringers and frames for stiffening.  If more monocoque in construction, then likely cored hull.

I had a boat with a foam cored deck and would never consider one again.  Core was wet for the most part and partially delaminated.  Upon cutting the core out in the delaminated section, the spooge used to bond the core to the glass was spotty at best and crumbled quite easily.  The foam cored hull on the other hand was perfectly fine.  Overall, I would choose balsa over foam for hull and deck any day.  the exception being Corecell. 

That just sounds like a shitty construction issue, foam core deck should be fine if properly built. Balsa is far more prone to rot issues as well.  

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It doesnt. GMD must have been thinking of a rig with lots of spreader sweep.

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34 minutes ago, sinker said:

On a boat that has inline shrouds and spreaders along with runners and checkstays, exactly how does that work? 

Don’t fuck up on the runners, you soon find out what happens. :ph34r::P

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3 hours ago, mad said:

Don’t fuck up on the runners, you soon find out what happens. :ph34r::P

Nonsense.  On a boat with that much rake and an intact permanent backstay you won't drop the rig on a gybe with the kite up unless you manage to do something to break the permanent backstay in the process, like letting the boom ride up and catching the permanent.   Make sure that backstay is in good shape.  Keeping the vang on through the gybe helps keep the rig in and keeps the boom away from the backstays and checks too.

My rig has in-line spreaders, running backstays and checks (though we don't use the checks most of the time) and we have had many events of momentarily having no runner tension during gybes, sometimes in heavy air.  Touch wood but the rig is still pointing in the right direction.

 

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Since this boat was a custom, one-off full racer, I suspect the topmast (and rest of spar) to be quite a bit lighter than the production Dash 34 rig. That the topmast needs jumps to stay up is a good indication of this.

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42 minutes ago, longy said:

Since this boat was a custom, one-off full racer, I suspect the topmast (and rest of spar) to be quite a bit lighter than the production Dash 34 rig. That the topmast needs jumps to stay up is a good indication of this.

I think the jumps are there to keep the topmast from twisting off to leeward thus keeping the main powered up.  I don't think they are there to keep the rig in the boat.  Why would it make sense to have such a lightweight section that the extra weight of jumpers is needed exactly where you don't want extra weight?   But what do I know... :mellow:

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1 hour ago, dash34 said:

I think the jumps are there to keep the topmast from twisting off to leeward thus keeping the main powered up.  I don't think they are there to keep the rig in the boat.  Why would it make sense to have such a lightweight section that the extra weight of jumpers is needed exactly where you don't want extra weight?   But what do I know... :mellow:

It’s possibly an old IOR rig, some of them last this long. It was seen quite a lot

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The rig doesn't seem as flexy as one might think just from looking at it. The Kirby 30 I looked at was very similar but much more flexible. For example tensioning the standing backstay doesn't bend it noticeably.

I'll know more when I get it home and have a rigger look at it. I will say I was much more comfortable with it after sailing it. The current owner sails it with no runners under about 20 knots - no chute though.

Some friends are going to sail us up on a Hunter 38 and escort us home so we'll have a mother ship to eat & sleep on for the trip home. Eliminates a very messy ferry run for my wife as well. Things are looking good.

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1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

The rig doesn't seem as flexy as one might think just from looking at it. The Kirby 30 I looked at was very similar but much more flexible. For example tensioning the standing backstay doesn't bend it noticeably.

I'll know more when I get it home and have a rigger look at it. I will say I was much more comfortable with it after sailing it. The current owner sails it with no runners under about 20 knots - no chute though.

Some friends are going to sail us up on a Hunter 38 and escort us home so we'll have a mother ship to eat & sleep on for the trip home. Eliminates a very messy ferry run for my wife as well. Things are looking good.

Be ready for a bill for new rigging etc

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It IS an old IOR mast. The topmast has jumps as they thought reducing frontal surface was worth the trade in extra weight of the jumpers. With the struts appearing like they are almost straight athwartships they are just providing lateral support, no fore/aft support. This was just to keep the topmast from falling off to leeward. The B/s is almost decorative, when tensioned it will only add bend to the topmast section. Used in big breeze to let the leach open more & flatten out that top section. Many spars of this era had extra ribs/pieces of extrusion added to the inside of the spar for stiffening down low. This would allow the mid & upper sections to be sized to the loads without extra weight. The final iteration of this technique was acid etching of the spar tube, to get just the amount of metal needed to support the design load.

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13 hours ago, longy said:

Many spars of this era had extra ribs/pieces of extrusion added to the inside of the spar for stiffening down low. This would allow the mid & upper sections to be sized to the loads without extra weight.

This one has had a couple of feet of stiffener welded to it starting about a foot above the gooseneck. Looks like it was intended to stiffen the section in way of the spin pole track.

The jumpers are indeed almost athwartships.

 

2018-03-18 12.37.30.jpg

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Thanks for rotating that - how'd you do it?

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Are you seeing stiffeners on the outside of the spar? Later in spar development (esp with the Harken tracks) the spi pole track was counted as a stiffener, and was extended down below deck level. Normal reinforcements went from deck level to above gooseneck. If you are seeing stiffeners above the g-neck to the top of the spi track then they were possibly added later when the stock set up proved a little weak.

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runners, no perm.  if the main has straight roach - you can keep them on during a gybe

inline setup, the checkstays will, at a minimum, keep the mast from pumping when the waves grow

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On 8/12/2018 at 1:17 PM, SloopJonB said:

Thanks for rotating that - how'd you do it?

Saved it locally. Opened it in a photo editor. Rotated 90 degrees anticlockwise (or "counterclockwise"). Saved and uploaded. 

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1 hour ago, Schnappi said:

Saved it locally. Opened it in a photo editor. Rotated 90 degrees anticlockwise (or "counterclockwise"). Saved and uploaded. 

  4d7.png

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10 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

  4d7.png

Alternatively, I could have rotated it 90 degrees clockwise 3 times, and achieved the same result.

skillz 2 pay da billz 

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13 minutes ago, sledracr said:

Fugly fender (crudely) 'shopped out....

 

825353171_2017-09-0511_34_20_jpg_d15fa33d4e1c9498c24cce9b96df09c7_thumb_jpg_5ac47d826f408c031c2dcf563d570259.jpg.b82ad4706f052a9a3b1b43859748be0f.jpg

Can I get you & Schnapps to paint the boat for me in real life? :D

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On 8/14/2018 at 11:24 AM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

split backstay, making peeing off the back of the boat 100% easier

Those are for the Running Back Stays not the Top Mast 

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Actually not - they are for the standing backstay. The runners are buried in all that knitting

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Two boats i always liked because they were good looking pure race boats, MoBetta and Bold Forbes.

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Sloop,

Just saw this. Very exciting. Fractional rig, tiller. Way to go. It's for daysailing and some racing?

Congratulations and felicities!

B.C.

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Thanks Bull - pretty pumped about getting it home next week - get a 4 day cruise in the islands in the bargain.

Life can be a bitch sometimes.

No racing planned, just going fast - but you never know.

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Cool boat, I remember it from the IOR days,  I think I ordered that curved harken traveller track for him when I was at Fisheries supply.

Why is it in fix it anarchy?

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'Cause it needs a lot of fixin'. :D

I thought about putting it in SA or CA but decided on Fixit so I won't have to start a new thread about all the projects I'm going to bore you all with down the road.

Would you happen to remember who built it? The boatyard, not the owner Pepka.

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I don't remember who built it, Mark Lindsey maybe. as I recall Chuck did all the finish work and deck layout.

Maybe someone with Facebook can get in contact with him, he'd probably still be interested about the boat

 

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Well that was a major bummer.

We were anchored at Jedediah Island on the first night on our way to pick up the boat and I called the owner to confirm the details of our arrival the next day. He informed me that a couple of problems had cropped up with the boat since the sea trial and he offered me my money back if I wanted to cancel the deal. I said I'd decide when we arrived and I had a chance to check them out.

Well they turned out to be fairly significant - I'm not going to go into it here but suffice it to say that after checking them out, thinking hard about it as well as discussing things with my friends - an engineer and an industrial equipment sales rep, as well as consulting with a diesel mechanic by phone we decided that it was too much for the 2 day trip back and I cancelled the deal. The weather on the trip home just confirmed my decision - 20 knots on the nose and a foul current for most of the second day of the trip. It wouldn't have been fun with the boat in its current state.

I am totally bummed because I really wanted the boat and it is pretty unique - the old "there are lots of them out there" didn't apply in this case but the circumstance were just against it. At least we got a nice three day cruise through the islands - even if we couldn't see much due to all the smoke from the forest fires.

Back to searching for the next one.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

Well that was a major bummer.

We were anchored at Jedediah Island on the first night on our way to pick up the boat and I called the owner to confirm the details of our arrival the next day. He informed me that a couple of problems had cropped up with the boat since the sea trial and he offered me my money back if I wanted to cancel the deal. I said I'd decide when we arrived and I had a chance to check them out.

Well they turned out to be fairly significant - I'm not going to go into it here but suffice it to say that after checking them out, thinking hard about it as well as discussing things with my friends - an engineer and an industrial equipment sales rep, as well as consulting with a diesel mechanic by phone we decided that it was too much for the 2 day trip back and I cancelled the deal. The weather on the trip home just confirmed my decision - 20 knots on the nose and a foul current for most of the second day of the trip. It wouldn't have been fun with the boat in its current state.

I am totally bummed because I really wanted the boat and it is pretty unique - the old "there are lots of them out there" didn't apply in this case but the circumstance were just against it. At least we got a nice three day cruise through the islands - even if we couldn't see much due to all the smoke from the forest fires.

Back to searching for the next one.

Too bad, but better to find out now...there's a lot of boats out there.

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That suck, Jon. Sorry to hear it

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Jon, that's a total bummer.  Glad the owner was upfront about it, and offered all the money back...

...and I was just about to suggest we put together an CA crew and race it next year at WIRW!

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Dead mo-mo ?   I see it's got the 'tramp stamp' on it  ( o/b bracket on any boat with an inboard )    Sorry to hear, - but better to know before you are committed. 

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Such as sad ending. I was looking forward to the continuation of the repair phase. Obviously, it was really major and the repair might actually be greater than the value of the boat?

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I dunno - I can restore boats pretty cheap but I have no idea what such an extreme boat would be worth in good shape - I doubt more than $15K at best so it would be tough to make my usual small profit on a project boat.

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SJB,

FYI, here is the only photo I have of the boat we were discussing.

587905.jpg

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That's the one.

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That's a real shame, she's a beaut.

Hey, I've got an idea! Maybe you could get her for a song, dump that stinky old Earth-hating diesel, and go electric! :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, IStream said:

That's a real shame, she's a beaut.

Hey, I've got an idea! Maybe you could get her for a song, dump that stinky old Earth-hating diesel, and go electric! :ph34r:

She was already going for a song IMO.

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Well, with apologies to the Grateful Dead, what a long strange trip it's been. This deal has been so drawn out and convoluted it makes buying a house look like something scribbled on a napkin in a bar at closing time.

The upshot is I now own the boat and it's on the hard in "my" boatyard 5 minutes from home.

When we got home from the aborted delivery trip I contacted the owner about transferring the refund. He advised me that he had imported a diesel mechanic from Courtenay and he found and corrected the problems that had killed the deal. I should make it clear that it was only the prospect of a 2 day trip with those problems that put me off - if it had been here they wouldn't have really mattered.

Anyway, he gave me the option of the refund or he would deliver the boat here. After some thought I told him to deliver it, which he did this week, arriving last night.

My son and I just finished pulling the sails off of and out of it. Tomorrow we'll take them to nearby Whytecliff park to spread them out on the big lawn for inspection and folding.

image.png.e606718ac49ced1a0d70541732099ad8.png

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Very nice taste in boats Jon

Looking forward to following your thread

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Most excellent. I can say that the little diesel on my new-to-me boat has been a bit of a problem child, but if it’s only the accessories, the costs are low if you tackle it yourself. And fairly simple...

 

good luck!

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3 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Most excellent. I can say that the little diesel on my new-to-me boat has been a bit of a problem child, but if it’s only the accessories, the costs are low if you tackle it yourself. And fairly simple...

 

good luck!

Fletch roasted the original momo!

 

Nice to hear that you got the boat SJB!

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13 hours ago, silent bob said:

Fletch roasted the original momo!

<lmao>

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Hmmm, great news, but too bad, I was about to offer you my Dash at a great price!  B)  I know, buy an ad....  I will soon!

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Me too but I've got lots to do before then. :D

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On 9/6/2018 at 7:45 PM, SloopJonB said:

Anyway, he gave me the option of the refund or he would deliver the boat here. After some thought I told him to deliver it, which he did this week, arriving last night.

 

 

 

dang where can I find me one of them guys..

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3 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Pics or it didn't happen.  :-)   

Here you go - as she sits in my local boatyard. Got most of the crap off it and have started on the cleanup inside. Noting of pictorial interest so far - stripping old tape off the rigging and that sort of thing. It's already much improved but I haven't decided which project to tackle first - maybe the waterline mustache and then servicing the winches. I'd really like to start replacing the running rigging but that doesn't make much sense at this time of year.

 

As Delivered 9.18.JPG

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Overhaul the rudder cap - there's too much gap above the rudder, esp for a custom built boat. Somethings not right.

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Yeah, I thought the same thing. It has a bit of slop in the bearings so they are on the list. Can't feel it under way but I can wiggle the rudder slightly on the hard.

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I was going through the box of documentation I got with the boat - obviously the first time anyone has done it for a while since I found installation instructions for a Loran C receiver :D.

Anyway, it appears the boat was built by O'Bee Marine in San Diego. I've never heard of them - can anyone here provide any info about them?

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  O B Boatworks? Built 'Secret Love' & "Kayak" two custom Peterson designs '72 - '74. Thas all I remember right now. If you're really interested I might be able to ask those involved in the SL build.

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Because I'd never heard of them I was just curious about their rep and if they are still in business.

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 SL & the Yak were very well built, foam cored, vinylester resin. Kayak spent most of her life out of Santa Barbera. SL did 2 BBS, 2 SORC, Onion Patch,  Bermuda Race, delivered to Sardinia on her own bottom, US team Sardinia Cup '84, then donated to US Naval Academy, after which I have no knowledge. I was onboard for almost everything, never had a problem with hull construction/strength. Kinked the spar going to Bermuda, but that was due to checkstay snapping falling off A WAVE.

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