Presuming Ed

Death at Cowes week.

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Awful to read about a death at Cowes week today.  I wasn't sailing, but see from Bramblemet that gusts up to 40kts came through at 12, while plenty of boats were still racing.

bramblemet.png.6b0cf82c82bd3f1ac38d301021ebd054.png

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From the photos it looks pretty full on. Surprised White group (small boats) went out.

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8 minutes ago, Quagers said:

From the photos it looks pretty full on. Surprised White group (small boats) went out.

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My first thought was, "Surprised White group," what a strange name for a boat!  Especially when looking at the first picture.

That looks like a hell of a day at sea!   Everybody earned their drinks at the party tent that night.

- Stumbling

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That's sad. Do we know about the circumstances?

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17 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

That's sad. Do we know about the circumstances?

sounds like a MOB...feet got tangled in mainsheet

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Condolences to the family. Hate hearing about these things but it does happen. Be safe out there.

 

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Ya know its one thing to be caught out in that stuff.  You deal  with it. 

Its quite another to intentionally  go out and beat the s*** out of you boat, your crew and risk exactly what happened.

Damned shame.  

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12 minutes ago, sail69 said:

Its quite another to intentionally  go out and beat the s*** out of you boat, your crew and risk exactly what happened.

please ref. RRS 4

Your 'beat the shit out of' is another's 'a bit sporty'.

 

Condolences to family and friends..

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He fell out of an RS Elite.......that is RS's one design keel boat not an offshore yacht.

 

RSElite.jpg.ecbd855512a9a6fb87011a41d4c2458c.jpg

 

Very sad.  Condolences to family friends and crew,

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My thoughts to all in the Solent sailing community. When you look at the number of competitors each year and the challenging waters this regatta is held in, it must be statistically one of the safest regattas on earth. It is certainly the one of the best run. Big breezes are part of sailing in the UK and RO's have always had a grown up approch to running races over there. One of the reasons that UK sailors are some off the finest seaman around.

 

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2 hours ago, ROADKILL666 said:

WEATHER LOOKS LIKE FUN.SUCKS ABOUT THE LOSS OF ANOTHER SAILOR.:(

I really hope you were bring sarcastic because it takes pretty much a jerk to think that sailing in this weather is fun. It's tough, wet, cold, and dangerous. As a boat owner I worry about my crew, my sails, hell, the whole boat, and we just want to get through it safely. Maybe if you had enough time to get the right sails on and get set up for it, so that you could sail instead of just surviving, it might be "fun", but not what I see these people doing.

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Wayne was an acquaintance from a long time ago, my wife had dinner with him on Saturday, R.I.P. and sincere condolences to his wife and family.

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3 hours ago, sail69 said:

Ya know its one thing to be caught out in that stuff.  You deal  with it. 

Its quite another to intentionally  go out and beat the s*** out of you boat, your crew and risk exactly what happened.

Damned shame.  

Start was around 11am - by that wind plot above, it was 15-20 and quickly escalated (squalls? forecast?  I don't know, and neither do you).

If you look at the results, 4 completed, by far the majority retired (11 boats, including rescuing crew).

Why do you think anyone went out in a daysailer expecting 40kn?

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This is just awful that someone has lost their life  I feel so very sorry for his family and friends. We were racing yesterday in another dayboat class. The dayboats were sent to the eastern Solent in the relative shelter of Osbourne Bay, the forecast was for gusts of 30 Kts between 1200 and 1400. Towards the end of our race at 11:30 we had some pretty ugly squalls and poor visibility as we approached Cowes. The  photos shown appear to be from the Western Solent where the big boats were racing, we saw nothing like that whilst we were sailing

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8 hours ago, wingssail said:

I really hope you were bring sarcastic because it takes pretty much a jerk to think that sailing in this weather is fun. It's tough, wet, cold, and dangerous. As a boat owner I worry about my crew, my sails, hell, the whole boat, and we just want to get through it safely. Maybe if you had enough time to get the right sails on and get set up for it, so that you could sail instead of just surviving, it might be "fun", but not what I see these people doing.

That is your personal view but like it or not people do find those conditions fun. Especially in the relative safely of the Solent close to home. My Facebook feed yesterday was full of videos of people "sending it" with a appropriate whoops and cheers as they surfed down waves. Sure the way back uphill was hard, but that's all part of the experience.

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I too was out yesterday. The conditions were windy but not exceptional. We had a couple of 40 knot gusts, but it was mostly in the mid to high twenties. I was in a bigger, old and solid boat, and was a bit disappointed when they abandoned the race. There was lots of sail damage around, but I didn't hear of any other significant incidents.

The wind was a bit stronger that the forecast that I saw, and the big stuff came in a bit earlier too.

It does sound like a bit of a freak accident, simply falling overboard in those conditions in the Solent in August would not normally be considered life threatening. I'm very sad for the family and friends of the deceased. I did a couple of days in the RS Elite class a few Cowes Weeks ago, and they were a lovely, friendly class with some exceptional sailors.

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13 hours ago, wingssail said:

I really hope you were bring sarcastic because it takes pretty much a jerk to think that sailing in this weather is fun. It's tough, wet, cold, and dangerous. As a boat owner I worry about my crew, my sails, hell, the whole boat, and we just want to get through it safely. Maybe if you had enough time to get the right sails on and get set up for it, so that you could sail instead of just surviving, it might be "fun", but not what I see these people doing.

If its not fun, why do it?

It's not like most of us need to sail to feed our kids or anything.

Ive been lucky enough to sail with a good crew, where 30 knots was just fun, and we kept putting tha kites up as long as the owner kept paying. I also cruise my own boat with my family, where we dont head out with a forcast much over 20. Because it's not fun.

Sorry to hear of a fellow sailor's death, no matter how much fun they were having.

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13 hours ago, wingssail said:

I really hope you were bring sarcastic because it takes pretty much a jerk to think that sailing in this weather is fun. It's tough, wet, cold, and dangerous. As a boat owner I worry about my crew, my sails, hell, the whole boat, and we just want to get through it safely. Maybe if you had enough time to get the right sails on and get set up for it, so that you could sail instead of just surviving, it might be "fun", but not what I see these people doing.

Some of us like it...

In the 1990s before the French sailing federation got cold feet and asked clubs to be cautious, we were doing winter series in the "baie de Quiberon" in conditions sometimes worse than this. Like the Solent, it is a sheltered area and we were learning a lot, if you can race in those conditions, it will certainly help you make the right decision the day you are caught offshore in some seriously bad stuff. With the right kit it is actually far more enjoyable than you might think.

Reading the report to me it looks like a freak (and very sad) accident. If you end up being dragged by the feet, you can't breath as your head will be under the water, so only his crewmates could help him and they probably only had a few seconds to react. So imagine, you are helming you can't smoke out the mainsheet to slow down, you are thinking WTF? and may be the boat is not responsive to the tiller as obviously keel boats are not designed to drag stuff behind.... I know you should never tangle yourself in sheets and halyards but we've all had a loop around our feet, TBH I think that this is probably the real lesson and being tangled in 15 knots of wind can also happen.

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6 hours ago, Quagers said:

That is your personal view but like it or not people do find those conditions fun. Especially in the relative safely of the Solent close to home. My Facebook feed yesterday was full of videos of people "sending it" with a appropriate whoops and cheers as they surfed down waves. Sure the way back uphill was hard, but that's all part of the experience.

Agreed; but one thing to always remember is that bigger conditions have bigger risk. An accident or mistake that can be laughed about later in the pub in 15~18 kt winds can cause serious damage or injury in 30+.

My deepest sympathy and condolences to the bereaved family.

FB- Doug

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Personally, I'm quite happy starting a race in a dayboat without the ability to reef up to high 20s. In fact, it's the sort of weather where we go best. If it builds to the low 30s, then that's fine. Just apply some seamanship - drop spinnakers as required and so on. Don't push the boat on boat tactics.

No sane race officer I know will set a fleet of dayboats that can't reef out into 30+. It's not really racing, and the risks of flogging sails to death and breaking things and people rises exponentially.

Offshore, of course, que sera sera, once the race has started. For the race committee there is a greater amount of latitude about boats being able to cope, but in the modern world it's impossible to completely ignore the duty of care of race officials. E.g. see the 2007 Fastnet, where the start was delayed 24 hours. Meant people weren't in the Irish Sea when the storm hit, and if they did want to run for cover, there were plenty of options on the English South coast.

 

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2 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

Personally, I'm quite happy starting a race in a dayboat without the ability to reef up to high 20s. In fact, it's the sort of weather where we go best. If it builds to the low 30s, then that's fine. Just apply some seamanship - drop spinnakers as required and so on. Don't push the boat on boat tactics.

No sane race officer I know will set a fleet of dayboats that can't reef out into 30+. It's not really racing, and the risks of flogging sails to death and breaking things and people rises exponentially.

Offshore, of course, que sera sera, once the race has started. For the race committee there is a greater amount of latitude about boats being able to cope, but in the modern world it's impossible to completely ignore the duty of care of race officials. E.g. see the 2007 Fastnet, where the start was delayed 24 hours. Meant people weren't in the Irish Sea when the storm hit, and if they did want to run for cover, there were plenty of options on the English South coast.

 

i'm not so happy about shifting the duty of care from the skipper to the RC.., but i guess that is the world we live in...

but you are right - there is a huge difference between an offshore keelboat sailing around the buoys in 30+kts, with seas, and an inshore, non-reefing, keelboat. many of those inshore keelboats have no protection against down-flooding and have a real risk of sinking in a knock-down. some classes - like the etchells - handle a lot of breeze pretty well. Others - like say a 6 metre - aren't as manageable. 

anyway.., terrible accident, and condolences to family and friends. I hope we learn more about what actually happened.

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2 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

Personally, I'm quite happy starting a race in a dayboat without the ability to reef up to high 20s. In fact, it's the sort of weather where we go best. If it builds to the low 30s, then that's fine. Just apply some seamanship - drop spinnakers as required and so on. Don't push the boat on boat tactics.

No sane race officer I know will set a fleet of dayboats that can't reef out into 30+. It's not really racing, and the risks of flogging sails to death and breaking things and people rises exponentially.

Offshore, of course, que sera sera, once the race has started. For the race committee there is a greater amount of latitude about boats being able to cope, but in the modern world it's impossible to completely ignore the duty of care of race officials. E.g. see the 2007 Fastnet, where the start was delayed 24 hours. Meant people weren't in the Irish Sea when the storm hit, and if they did want to run for cover, there were plenty of options on the English South coast.

 

in the Netherlands race the windlimit for a start is a consistent (not measured in a gust) 28 knots. (has something to do with insurance...)

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First of all, my condolences to family and friends. What a sad accident.

Her's a video , race officer starts at 2min20sec

https://livestream.com/ngresults/lendycowesweek2018/videos/178804259

Guess its just bad luck.

A

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Presuming Ed as I was out there I can hopefully assure you that the conditions for the dayboats whilst we were racing our XOD were ugly at times but on average the sea state where we sailing was no worse than on Wednesday at the time of the incident, according to the press report. I’m sure the ins and outs of this tragic incident will come out in the near future but in the meantime I don’t think jumping to blame the race committee is a great idea. 

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Sure this is a tragic accident, that in Cowes week doesn't happen often, if at all.  To all the snowflakes that haven't got a clue what they're talking about or haven't done a few Cowes Weeks and probably never will .......... there's always a 'windy' day in the week.  Read windy with a capital W.

This has given us some iconic shots like Silk pitch poling and many others.

This always ends with a few rigs coming down, quite a few sails flogged to death and numerous spinnakers blown up.  If however if your boat handling and gear is up to spec these are conditions to be relished and sending it up the Solent coming back from a mark near Hurst with the speedo pegged at 11 and the 1.5 up its the best ride of the week.  Seeing the competition wipe out behind you is just a reminder that you might be next so any whoop whoop sentiments are kept in check.

There's nobody to blame.  If your gear (or crew) can't stand anything above 15 knots you shouldn't be out there and take up chess.

 

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15 hours ago, Se7en said:

as long as the owner kept paying

It is not just "paying" that the owner does. He has responsibility for the boat and the crew.The sails and equipment are secondary. So, the carefree attitude that you can go out in dangerous conditions and have fun as long as the owner keeps paying gets stale pretty quick when someone dies. You are a fool if yo think we aren't playing for keeps when we go sailing, especially in those conditions, and again I say it, you are a jerk if you think it's a joke.

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19 hours ago, Quagers said:

like it or not people do find those conditions fun.

I've sailed a lot of miles and a lot of races and one thing I've learned: any potential crew member who thinks it's all a joke is better left ashore until they grow up. Going to sea is serious and honestly, on any professional crew I've sailed with, they all know that.

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15 hours ago, Panoramix said:

Some of us like it.

Like I said, if you've got time to prepare and get set up for these conditions it can be fine. One thing is certain, is that you'll feel pretty good about it when you get back. But the armchair sailor who thinks that getting caught in a big squall is just a hoot, without recognition of the danger involved, is just dangerous and I would not have him on board. Sailors I've sailed with, pros, all respect the sea and take these kind of conditions seriously. You should too.

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6 hours ago, Laser1 said:

If however if your boat handling and gear is up to spec

Yeah, I've got it, you make it through and you think you're God's gift, It's more like, "Well, we were well prepared and we were lucky, nobody was hurt and we're damn glad, because it could have been worse" and stop congratulating yourself.

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My deepest sympathy and condolences to all, heard about this yesterday during sailing in Calves week. Perfect sailing weather there, hard to believe this happened so close.

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5 hours ago, wingssail said:

I've sailed a lot of miles and a lot of races and one thing I've learned: any potential crew member who thinks it's all a joke is better left ashore until they grow up. Going to sea is serious and honestly, on any professional crew I've sailed with, they all know that.

Who said anything about a "joke"?

Competitive sailing is rarely a "joke" for me because I am a competitive guy who wants to win, that does mean it isn't fun. You can be 100% serious and focused and respecting the conditions and still having fun.

Is your argument here that no "professional crew" is having fun sailing in 30knts? That they wouldn't go out in 30knts? Because frankly, thats utter bollocks.

 

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The breeze must have come in quickly?  Most of the photos I have seen, including the one on the FP show too much rag up for the conditions.  Asking for carnage.

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The experience we had was that the breeze came in (a little) earlier and (10-15 kts) stronger than forecast. Some of the earlier starts that got down towards Hurst reportedly saw 45-50 kts in the gusts. We saw 38 - 45 kts around the East Lepe area. The worst of it was that it was wind over strong tides, so it was about the roughest I’ve seen the Solent. 

The issue that a lot of boats had was that the abandonment wasn’t easy to hear with so much wind noise. Jack Rabbit, the Dutch J/109 that won Black Group, told us that they had no idea it was abandoned until after they finished (and blew two headsails, and hit a channel marker). 

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8 hours ago, wingssail said:

It is not just "paying" that the owner does. He has responsibility for the boat and the crew.The sails and equipment are secondary. So, the carefree attitude that you can go out in dangerous conditions and have fun as long as the owner keeps paying gets stale pretty quick when someone dies. You are a fool if yo think we aren't playing for keeps when we go sailing, especially in those conditions, and again I say it, you are a jerk if you think it's a joke.

Thanks for the sanctimonious lecture, you forgot to quote the bit where I mentioned I owned my own boat. And sail with my family. Possibly I have some idea about the responsibility of a skipper.

Any water I cant stand up in is 'dangerous conditions'. But 30 ish knots in a well found racing yacht with a competant crew? Thats not any more dangerous than driving to the yacht club. And yes it is fun pushing the boat as hard as we can, thats why we do it. Things break or go wrong, you sort it out. It only sucks when you blow up the second kite and have skied both halyards. 

What games do you play where you are not playing for keeps? Lawn bowls? Has a higher death rate than sailing.

You're only a fool if you keep doing it when its no longer fun. 

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16 hours ago, Rors said:

Presuming Ed as I was out there I can hopefully assure you that the conditions for the dayboats whilst we were racing our XOD were ugly at times but on average the sea state where we sailing was no worse than on Wednesday at the time of the incident, according to the press report. I’m sure the ins and outs of this tragic incident will come out in the near future but in the meantime I don’t think jumping to blame the race committee is a great idea. 

I’m not blaming the race committee at all. And I’m sure the MAIB will report in due course. 

It is a stark and tragic reminder that things can go very, very wrong.

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11 hours ago, wingssail said:

Like I said, if you've got time to prepare and get set up for these conditions it can be fine. One thing is certain, is that you'll feel pretty good about it when you get back. But the armchair sailor who thinks that getting caught in a big squall is just a hoot, without recognition of the danger involved, is just dangerous and I would not have him on board. Sailors I've sailed with, pros, all respect the sea and take these kind of conditions seriously. You should too.

What make you think that I don't take the sea seriously? You didn't quote the part where I was talking of the "right kit".

As for the pros, they aren't the last ones to go out in gnarly conditions.

c558f969930201e9313004d4e3bc3b3d.jpg

 

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It was seriously windy out there, we had won our class with a race to spare so by about 1100 we turned around and went home. Black group were sent around 5 or 6 miles west from the bramble line. By the time we started at 10.40 (I think) it was good visibility and about 18-25 knots of wind. At the point that we turned around there was so much rain and wind that I could barely look forwards, boats 100 yards away were disappearing. We were reading 30-35 knots and the biggest gust we saw before turning back was about 42 knots. At Hurst the weather station was reading over 50 knots. 

The sail home was a lot of fun, the owner took care of communications with the race officer to radio in our retirement and I took the helm. It's very sad to hear of the loss of a fellow sailor, I'm sure the conditions didn't help things, it was a very unstable wind and for the Solent the waves were quite big, but I wouldn't have called it dangerous out there. Mistakes happen and sadly in this case the consequences were not pretty. I don't think any blame can be put on the race officer, the safety teams, or the crew on that RS Elite. 

 

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I was not sailing at Cowes on Friday. Does anybody know what was the forecast wind strength?

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On 8/11/2018 at 12:50 PM, us7070 said:

i'm not so happy about shifting the duty of care from the skipper to the RC.., but i guess that is the world we live in...

but you are right - there is a huge difference between an offshore keelboat sailing around the buoys in 30+kts, with seas, and an inshore, non-reefing, keelboat. many of those inshore keelboats have no protection against down-flooding and have a real risk of sinking in a knock-down. some classes - like the etchells - handle a lot of breeze pretty well. Others - like say a 6 metre - aren't as manageable. 

anyway.., terrible accident, and condolences to family and friends. I hope we learn more about what actually happened.

I've had a few days out where the RC couldn't safely conduct the races for their own sake (ie, once the anchor was down they were taking on water, or the mark boats were otherwise unsafe, etc), and thus we beat all the way back in, or got a respite and fun ride home after beating all the way out. 

 

Condolences to family. It's been a rough year for sailing. Again. 

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First, condolences to the family of both sailors recently lost.  

I've owned a boat and crewed on many others and the perspective is much different.  As an owner in heavy weather, you do not have fun, you worry about the rig, the sails, the boat, the people, etc.  As a crew, you just have fun unless heavy air makes you uncomfortable.  

Years ago, I sailed on a boat that thrived in heavy air to the point where the others might as well not go out.  But if it was much over 20, people would start talking about how it was supposed to build and ultimately, the race would be cancelled. 

My bigger concern is that on the lakes we don't often encounter Chi-Mac conditions on local races.  So, if we don't practice (with old sails) on those occasions when these conditions happen, we are wholly incapable of dealing with it.  I've had a storm trysail up twice in my life, both in less then 10kts breeze to figure out leads.  I was on a small boat in a Mac one year and it had been recently converted to tapes from hanks.  We're going uphill in breeze from Cove and we're on a three and a reef and the owner and I agreed we really should go to a four.  I volunteered, I get up to the bow and reached in the bag and felt...hanks.  I immediately returned to the cockpit and explained to the owner that I didn't feel comfortable in those conditions and that he should do the change.  As he knew me, all he said was, hanks?

Save your old sails and have them ready for practice.  If you get a 20+  on a given night, go out and have fun and gain confidence.  Also, during those practices, and granted they are different sails, figure out your leads and do like the NFL, print them out with others and laminate.  A great one sheet addition to the nav table (next to the wallets and keys).  

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On 8/10/2018 at 10:52 AM, Quagers said:

From the photos it looks pretty full on. Surprised White group (small boats) went out.

FB_IMG_1533920483554.jpg

FB_IMG_1533920258148.jpg

Did the wind just come up or were boats not able to shorten sail??

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3 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

First, condolences to the family of both sailors recently lost.  

I've owned a boat and crewed on many others and the perspective is much different.  As an owner in heavy weather, you do not have fun, you worry about the rig, the sails, the boat, the people, etc.  As a crew, you just have fun unless heavy air makes you uncomfortable.  

Years ago, I sailed on a boat that thrived in heavy air to the point where the others might as well not go out.  But if it was much over 20, people would start talking about how it was supposed to build and ultimately, the race would be cancelled. 

My bigger concern is that on the lakes we don't often encounter Chi-Mac conditions on local races.  So, if we don't practice (with old sails) on those occasions when these conditions happen, we are wholly incapable of dealing with it.  I've had a storm trysail up twice in my life, both in less then 10kts breeze to figure out leads.  I was on a small boat in a Mac one year and it had been recently converted to tapes from hanks.  We're going uphill in breeze from Cove and we're on a three and a reef and the owner and I agreed we really should go to a four.  I volunteered, I get up to the bow and reached in the bag and felt...hanks.  I immediately returned to the cockpit and explained to the owner that I didn't feel comfortable in those conditions and that he should do the change.  As he knew me, all he said was, hanks?

Save your old sails and have them ready for practice.  If you get a 20+  on a given night, go out and have fun and gain confidence.  Also, during those practices, and granted they are different sails, figure out your leads and do like the NFL, print them out with others and laminate.  A great one sheet addition to the nav table (next to the wallets and keys).  

Nope. I own a boat and yes I worry a bit but still have fun when it blows...

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1 hour ago, Meat Wad said:

Did the wind just come up or were boats not able to shorten sail??

there is so much wrong with this question I don't know where to start. When was the last time you stepped foot on a boat and went sailing?

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1 hour ago, Expatriated said:

Nope. I own a boat and yes I worry a bit but still have fun when it blows...

You have deeper pockets 

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Shit...just found out about this today via other channels. Worked with Wayne for a number of years, often shared a ride to work and the occasional bottle of wine after. A big guy with a big heart, a unique take on life and a massive sense of humor.....thoughts with family and friends.

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14 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

I've owned a boat and crewed on many others and the perspective is much different.  As an owner in heavy weather, you do not have fun, you worry about the rig, the sails, the boat, the people, etc.  As a crew, you just have fun unless heavy air makes you uncomfortable.

This.  Especially the people.  I know my boat and the crew and have faith in both but the boat or gear can be replaced while a friend can't be and sometimes sh*t happens.  I have crewed on the same boat I own in big breeze and its just pure joy and fun without any worry.  I still have fun on my own boat but in the back of my mind is always "what if" and how it would impact my friends (who are crew) and how could I ever face their family.

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On 8/13/2018 at 7:32 PM, duncan (the other one) said:

there is so much wrong with this question I don't know where to start. When was the last time you stepped foot on a boat and went sailing?

I was just asking.
And in case you do not know, I sail all the time and I do not set foot on a boat any more because I roll up to my boat in my wheelchair now.

But I did sail once as an able bodied person, Worked in a sail loft of  11 years sailing every weekend and during the week.

So fuck you asshole dipstick nobody

I was just asking a question

 

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6 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

I was just asking.
And in case you do not know, I sail all the time and I do not set foot on a boat any more because I roll up to my boat in my wheelchair now.

But I did sail once as an able bodied person, Worked in a sail loft of  11 years sailing every weekend and during the week.

So fuck you asshole dipstick nobody

I was just asking a question

 

I don't care if you're a disabled black lesbian puppeteer

Its a stupid question.  a 1/100th snapshot of the race, and you're asking why they have those rigs up.

The only people who know the answer are the crews involved.

 

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3 hours ago, Kenny Dumas said:

So they don't know how to reef?

Inshore OD seldom are equipped with reefs. The 'offshore' classes I'd expect to have reefs. In the pictures, I assume the boats are in a temporary gust, or perhaps are so close to the windward mark they elected not to reef. A single photo can omit a lot of context. 

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Yeah, should have used the sarcasm font.  Or just made the general observation that lots of racers almost never reef and many don't reef when they should.  Flogging is slow and hard on sails.  Tucking in a reef shouldn't cost you any more than a tack if you practice.

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I would be surprised if the boat involved can reef. It was an rs sport boat, right? Performance rigs will typically have too much bend to make reefing viable anyway.

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It was an RS Elite, which is more of a keelboat than a sportsboat. I've seen them many times and never noticed one with reefing lines rigged. I suspect they cannot reef.

Elite04.jpg

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Don't know about the RS but some keelboats will sail with just the jib up.

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

It was an RS Elite, which is more of a keelboat than a sportsboat. I've seen them many times and never noticed one with reefing lines rigged. I suspect they cannot reef.

Elite04.jpg

and yet the picture you have supplied has a main with reefing points.. :blink:

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But no reefing lines. Maybe you could in theory reef when the main is hoisted but not thereafter.

Brochure says:

The boom is aluminium alloy for durability and fitted with single
slab reefing equipment, although in practice this feature is seldom,
if ever, used due to the exceptional ability to blade out the head of
the sail and depower using the sail controls.

 

Class rules say nada on the subject.

 

 

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8 hours ago, dogwatch said:

But no reefing lines. Maybe you could in theory reef when the main is hoisted but not thereafter.

Brochure says:

The boom is aluminium alloy for durability and fitted with single
slab reefing equipment, although in practice this feature is seldom,
if ever, used due to the exceptional ability to blade out the head of
the sail and depower using the sail controls.

 

Class rules say nada on the subject.

 

 

yes - it seems fairly pointless for the class-regulated main to have reefing points when the rules don't require the gear

So of course no-one will have any gear in/on their boom.

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2 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

yes - it seems fairly pointless for the class-regulated main to have reefing points when the rules don't require the gear

So of course no-one will have any gear in/on their boom.

Not to mention, those are often “decorative “ reef points. They meet the rule, but aren’t exactly good for the sail if you use them. 

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16 hours ago, Monkey said:

Not to mention, those are often “decorative “ reef points. They meet the rule, but aren’t exactly good for the sail if you use them. 

which is why most "offshore" race boats have an inshore main, and offshore and/or offshore/delivery main. It's kind of a PITA to swap the morning of a race but i've done it a few times. Obviously this doesn't work so well with OD that may require you use the same main through the whole regatta. 

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On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 2:24 AM, duncan (the other one) said:

 

Start was around 11am - by that wind plot above, it was 15-20 and quickly escalated (squalls? forecast?  I don't know, and neither do you).

If you look at the results, 4 completed, by far the majority retired (11 boats, including rescuing crew).

Why do you think anyone went out in a daysailer expecting 40kn?

Just to be clear, White Group boats had an earlier than published start (we were 09:05 I think instead of published 12:05) so as to get a race in before the weather hit. The RS Elites started before us in the XOD class and we were in just after 12ish. The weather was coming in hard by then already. The difference is how far the course was for the RS Elites. We saw the helicopter off Cowes when we were back in the marina so I'm guessing their course was a bit longer than ours.

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4 hours ago, Jeckel said:

Just to be clear, White Group boats had an earlier than published start (we were 09:05 I think instead of published 12:05) so as to get a race in before the weather hit. The RS Elites started before us in the XOD class and we were in just after 12ish. The weather was coming in hard by then already. The difference is how far the course was for the RS Elites. We saw the helicopter off Cowes when we were back in the marina so I'm guessing their course was a bit longer than ours.

ok - thanks for the clarification.  Makes my point even stronger.

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Sailing in the Solent in a small keelboat in real breeze is as intense as it gets. Swimmers are not at all unusual and some fleets (at least used to) recognize those sailors at regatta wrap-ups etc. 

God speed to Wayne and condolences to his family and friends. 

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On 8/10/2018 at 1:52 PM, Quagers said:

From the photos it looks pretty full on. Surprised White group (small boats) went out.

FB_IMG_1533920483554.jpg

FB_IMG_1533920258148.jpg

 

Looks like things were just starting to get good.

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On 8/15/2018 at 6:31 AM, duncan (the other one) said:

I don't care if you're a disabled black lesbian puppeteer

Its a stupid question.  a 1/100th snapshot of the race, and you're asking why they have those rigs up.

The only people who know the answer are the crews involved.

 

But he's right. You do seem like an asshole dipstick nobody.

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6 minutes ago, Peanut Butter said:

But he's right. You do seem like an asshole dipstick nobody.

We're all ADN's here.

 

My opinion is worth what you paid for it.. as is yours.

 

Tell me, do you know why these guys are so over-powered?  Looks like they're clueless nobodies out for a sunday sail to me.

 

komatsu-azzuro.jpg.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

We're all ADN's here.

 

My opinion is worth what you paid for it.. as is yours.

 

Tell me, do you know why these guys are so over-powered?  Looks like they're clueless nobodies out for a sunday sail to me.

 

komatsu-azzuro.jpg.

Don't remember commenting on that pic, skipper.

And, what does it have to do with anything I've said here?

 

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15 minutes ago, Peanut Butter said:

Don't remember commenting on that pic, skipper.

And, what does it have to do with anything I've said here?

 

go back and read the thread. If you don't understand the context of my comments, then why are you putting your oar in the water?

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On 8/13/2018 at 6:20 PM, Cal20sailor said:

.  But if it was much over  under 20, people would start talking about how it was supposed to build too light and ultimately, the race would be cancelled.

I was sailing in Perth earlier this year against the boys and girls from Albany WA.....They dont know how to set up for sub 15.,

 

 My very sincere condolences to the RS Elite fleet. There were friends sailing in this one. One of the finishers is a regular on the Viper 640 circuit. The Brits are generally very accomplished heavy air sailors and the Elite is a rugged boat. There will eventually be a report .  I am suspecting that the breeze increased.  But I would guess the accident involved an unfortunate MOB rather than a flaw in the boat or an error on the part of the RC.

 

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