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Was the Kat Ketch rig developed by George Barris, The King of the Kustomizers?

Or was it merely a typo for a Cat Ketch? :ph34r:

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33 minutes ago, DDW said:

I kind of like them.

Yeah, well, you're an anomaly. :ph34r:

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7 minutes ago, IStream said:
41 minutes ago, DDW said:

I kind of like them.

Yeah, well, you're an anomaly. :ph34r:

Maybe not so much. I have sailed a number of cat ketches and really like them, it's a practical rig.

My wife had a Sea Pearl, a 21' dory-like cat ketch when we met. It rowed better than it sailed IMHO, but still a fun boat. A number of them show up to do the Everglades Challenge every year

FB- Doug

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I've been taken with the rig since briefly sailing a Freedom 44 in the mid 80's. And having a Finn left me a fan of unstayed rigs.  I came close to buying a Freedom 44 a few years back. So I guess I qualify as a fan. 

And @DDW I've greatly admired Anomaly from posts and pictures here and on your blog, for much more than the rig. Truly a remarkable vessel. 

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I want to love cat ketches.  But I can't.

Engineering-wise, they are much better than the hideously-stressed stayed rigs, with their multiple vulnerabilities.  Even a basic 6-stay bermudan sloop has at least 30 mission-critical points of failure in standing rigging alone.  Freestanding masts avoid all those complexities.

Handling a cat ketch is lovely.  Self-tack upwind.  Sail safely by the lee downwind.  Much more efficient sails.

The downside is that they are not so good upwind. Like most ketches, the mizzen lives in dirty air.

And I love sailing upwind.  Not necessarily for long stretches, but I do want to be able to do it.  I hate engines, so I couldn't live with a rig which pushed me into using an engine upwind.

So I couldn't really love a cat ketch.  But many cruisers do turn on an engine instead of sailing upwind, and for them a cat ketch would be way better than a bermudan sloop.

However a cat yawl like @DDW's Anomaly is much better upwind.  Anomaly's rig looks like a near perfect setup... but sadly Anomaly is unique

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9 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Was the Kat Ketch rig developed by George Barris, The King of the Kustomizers?

Or was it merely a typo for a Cat Ketch? :ph34r:

I think it may have been a typo for the popular Kit Kat Ketch

58098824_KitKatketchtrimmed.png.9e67e488637bc706f45e107d53e18c88.png

Very tasty boats

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5 hours ago, TwoLegged said:

However a cat yawl like @DDW's Anomaly is much better upwind.  Anomaly's rig looks like a near perfect setup... but sadly Anomaly is unique

The advantage of a ketch/schooner in a larger vessel is the sail size is more manageable. I'm reminded as I'll be bending on the main shortly and it is a good 1/2 day's hard labor to do it. Each year that damn thing gets heavier :). More (recent) traditional ketch would have a 650 sq ft main and 550 sq ft mizzen. That size main would weigh about half what mine does. 

Upwind the two sails on a ketch behave like tandem airfoils, rather than a single slotted airfoil (sloop). But I do wonder what is going on on Farfarer, with a foresail that overlaps the main. We need some CFD analysis....I'd like to know what it's AWA groove is upwind. 

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A lot of the popularity of cat ketch rigs in traditional boats goes back to the New Haven sharpies.

Gary Hoyt and Freedom Yachts started out with cat ketches, but switched to cat sloops (i.e. sloops with very small jibs).  That's suggestive about what sells. I looked over a Freedom 28 cat ketch in a  boatyard, and, to me, it seemed like it had a lot more wetted surface than a typical sloop of the same size. Hoyt was never interested in racing, as far as I know. He was more interested in getting noobs out on the water. 

Halsey Herreshoff designed the blue one posted by Rasputin. It had a brief popularity with some racing sailors, but they used mizzen staysails, and maybe some other light sails, making it as complicated as a sloop, or more so,

Eric Spondberg has done a lot of design work on unstayed spars.  He made an attempt to get a high level of performance, but the project failed for reasons other than the vessel or rig's design.

project-amazon-sailing-01.jpg 

 

YMT has been a big fan, and has posted some of his opinions and experiences., 

Once upon a time, I gave some thought to finding a cat ketch for beer can racing, mostly thinking how much easier wing and wing than with a whisker pool on a sloop. In my enlightened old age, I lean more to thinking that the crew most just sits around, and there is no reason to reduce the amount of work they have to do. After all, why are they there?

 

 

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36 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

Once upon a time, I gave some thought to finding a cat ketch for beer can racing, mostly thinking how much easier wing and wing than with a whisker pool on a sloop. In my enlightened old age, I lean more to thinking that the crew most just sits around, and there is no reason to reduce the amount of work they have to do. After all, why are they there? 

They are there to keep you company and boost your ego while you drive your boat.  They flatter your skills and flatter your ownership of a fine craft.  Their v presence is a public advertisement of what a nice person you evidently are, since you can attract such followers.

In return, they enjoy a boat ride and get to feast on your table.

Some of them may be rail meat.  They also do some work to keep the boat moving, or to moor it.  But that's incidental :)

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29 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

Eric Spondberg has done a lot of design work on unstayed spars.  He made an attempt to get a high level of performance, but the project failed for reasons other than the vessel or rig's design.

Sponberg's Project Amazon  was a fascinating piece of innovation.   A Open 60 with a freestanding ketch rig!

Such a pity that financing problems killed it :(

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45 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

YMT has been a big fan, and has posted some of his opinions and experiences., 

Once upon a time, I gave some thought to finding a cat ketch for beer can racing, mostly thinking how much easier wing and wing than with a whisker pool on a sloop. In my enlightened old age, I lean more to thinking that the crew most just sits around, and there is no reason to reduce the amount of work they have to do. After all, why are they there?

I would dearly love to see YMT update his Tanton 45 design as my Last Boat but, alas, I'm not in a position to finance the effort.

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54 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

A lot of the popularity of cat ketch rigs in traditional boats goes back to the New Haven sharpies.

Gary Hoyt and Freedom Yachts started out with cat ketches, but switched to cat sloops (i.e. sloops with very small jibs).  That's suggestive about what sells. I looked over a Freedom 28 cat ketch in a  boatyard, and, to me, it seemed like it had a lot more wetted surface than a typical sloop of the same size. Hoyt was never interested in racing, as far as I know. He was more interested in getting noobs out on the water. 

Halsey Herreshoff designed the blue one posted by Rasputin. It had a brief popularity with some racing sailors, but they used mizzen staysails, and maybe some other light sails, making it as complicated as a sloop, or more so,

Eric Spondberg has done a lot of design work on unstayed spars.  He made an attempt to get a high level of performance, but the project failed for reasons other than the vessel or rig's design.

project-amazon-sailing-01.jpg 

 

YMT has been a big fan, and has posted some of his opinions and experiences., 

Once upon a time, I gave some thought to finding a cat ketch for beer can racing, mostly thinking how much easier wing and wing than with a whisker pool on a sloop. In my enlightened old age, I lean more to thinking that the crew most just sits around, and there is no reason to reduce the amount of work they have to do. After all, why are they there?

 

 

I remember Project Amazon.   It was two things: lack of money and if memory serves me, there, I think there was something about the hull skin being under spec and had received damage on the first offshore test outing and then after getting repaired, maybe a second dinging of the hull.

I am also a fan of unconventional thinking and was really rooting for this boat to be raced in anger around the world!

- Stumbling

I also remember seeing recently a design test in Woodenboat Mag for a Class 40 Cat Ketch:

https://www.woodenboat.com/proton

 

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Cat Ketches are popular in the monohull class of the Everglades Challenge. Both Sea Pearls and Core Sounds have a very good track record of finishing. Pluses: easy to handle by crew of 1 or 2. Good reaching speed esp using a mizzen staysail. Good downwind wing on wing. Low center of effort good in heavier air. Shorter rig height goes under bridges without opening. Minuses: Not as fast to windward as a sloop. Can't set as large a spinnaker in light air as a sloop. 

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    I had the dubious honor of doing a delivery on PROJECT AMAZON. What a deathtrap! Pretty much unmanagable in tight quarters with a crew of three and we needed a tow just to get out of Red Hook and through the cut to the South side of St T. The skipper managed to overrun the tow boat before casting off the towline and the 25' outboard couldn't accelerate fast enough to get back in front of the big Cat Ketch. A couple of days earlier the tow boat skipper had released his towline about the same time the Amazon Skipper released his end instead of casting off. Lost a 250 towline so the local towboat skiff refused to make that mistake again yelling, 'No Mon, you loose up de line!' When the line went taught, he did make a dive at the tow cleat with a knife but the powerboat swapped ends so fast and then dragged stern first looking like an old 'Jitterbug' bass plug. The line snapped from out end and nearly took out the other skipper and when we finally got the big runaway ketch slowed down and jibed back just the bow of the towboat was sticking straight up in the air with the poor skipper sitting like a cormorant on the bow. We made a pass to pick him up and when he saw us coming he started yelling, 'Go away Mon, you coming back to try and kill me again?'

    That was all in my first 15 minutes on the AMAZON! It didn't get better and I was never so glad to get off of a boat in my life when we reached Fajardo. Getting to a dock there was nearly as bad. The goosenecks looked like the old roller mills that were so notorious for grabbing kids and workers and sucking them into the works and ripping fingers and limbs apart. I asked the skipper where the head was about half way through the trip (I literally had the shit scared out of me) and he ducked below and opened a Lewmar hatch INSIDE the boat that led to a cloaca of sorts in the dagger/keel trunk and housed the lift and swing hydraulics as well as the undersized engine raw water intake AND exhaust! He told me to just sit on the edge of the 45 degree mounted hatch and have a dump. There was a lot of oil and hydraulic floating around and he said to be careful closing the hatch because it was prone to leaking! The reason we were having to get tows was because the poor little diesel (hydraulic drive too) had probably injested turds and refused to run. 

     Boat had amazing straightline speed but the systems were a nightmare and the skipper was a complete idiot! 

     My mate and I both got stiffed on our day rate for the delivery and I found out later that the towboat skipper got stiffed too for the near sinking of his boat! Karma didn't take long to catch up with the AMAZON grifter.

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6 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I had the dubious honor of doing a delivery on PROJECT AMAZON.

Wow, Rasper!    What a story.  And well told.

Sounds like the trip from hell with the skipper from hell in a boat which had built as the engineering disaster from hell.   Little wonder she was eventually scrapped.

You have had some amazing adventures.   You should write a book about it all.

 

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Thanks Two,

     I figure that my postings on SA are good preparation for telling my memoirs someday. Just have to gather everything here up before the site goes down for good! I'm working on being better able to summarize. 

     I'm just glad I didn't race the ROLEX on the AMAZON which my buddy on that trip did. Things were even crazier!

 

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3 minutes ago, stinky said:

+1 

I'd buy that book. 

Stinky,

     Thanks, I'll put you on the list.

     I just need to remember to change the names to protect the guilty like this guy does so well.

5157525D32L._SX340_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

     Actually, I think I am in at least a third of those twenty stories from Fatty!

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2 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Thanks Two,

     I figure that my postings on SA are good preparation for telling my memoirs someday. Just have to gather everything here up before the site goes down for good! I'm working on being better able to summarize. 

     I'm just glad I didn't race the ROLEX on the AMAZON which my buddy on that trip did. Things were even crazier!

 

Holy crap!!! LOL

Several decades ago a friend told me about a short delivery up a river(?) of Intrepid. Sort of similar....they ran aground, tore off the trim tab on keel, got a tow, when Intrepid came loose she surged ahead and ran over the tow boat, started pulling it backwards, it swamped and they cut it loose and waved "good luck".

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3 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Stinky,

     Thanks, I'll put you on the list.

     I just need to remember to change the names to protect the guilty like this guy does so well.

5157525D32L._SX340_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

     Actually, I think I am in at least a third of those twenty stories from Fatty!

Captain Ron?

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5 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Captain Ron?

"Don't worry.  They'll get out of the way.  I learned that driving the Saratoga."

- Stumbling 

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Capt Ron?

     No, Capt Reidl. Capt Ron may have been inspired by the good Capt Reidl. 

     This from Eric Sponberg.

The name Project Amazon has nothing to do with Amazon.com. The owner of the boat, my client, Sebastian Reidl, is a fascinating man--a machinist by trade, but at the time a gold prospector in Equador. He's also a commercial diver, and he helped to discover a sunken Spanish galleon that sank off Lima, Peru in 1643 that carried a silver treasure worth billions. He currently lives in Paraguay. Anyway, at the time of designing and building Project Amazon, he was also involved with the government of Ecuador on behalf of the indiginous people of the Amazon river basin by finding outlets for the work of their artisans. Also, his gold prospecting was on the western slopes of the Andes mountains which has the cloud forest. The cloud forest on the western slopes is what helps create the clouds that cross the Andes and provide rain for the rain forest on the eastern slopes of the Andes. If you want to preserve the rain forest, you have to preserve the cloud forest. Project Amazon was the embodiment of that effort to educate the world on those issues.

 He was a feisty, extremely adventurous and charismatic individual who only required a few hours to leave a lasting impression on people.

I found this statement on his obituary. I only spent a few hours with him and as you can see here he did leave a lasting impression on me. 

 

Sebastion Reidl

Sebastion Reidl

Sebastian Reidl unexpectedly passed away on November 22nd. He died in the presence of his wife Vicky Reidl, in Paraguay, his current country of residence. Seb lived in Squamish through the 1970’s and 1980’s. He was a founder of the Squamish yacht club and a proud Rotarian. He had a machine shop and was a commercial diver. He was a feisty, extremely adventurous and charismatic individual who only required a few hours to leave a lasting impression on people. After Squamish Seb ended up in the mountains in Ecuador for a few decades, before being transient again which eventually led him to Paraguay. For a man who lived away from the coast for many years his heart never left the expansive place full of wonder and power that is the ocean. He built his first boat, Sea Ray, in Squamish and spent many happy hours in Howe Sound and surrounding area. He participated in several races to Hawaii – Jack and Jill and full crew. His biggest Sailing adventure came with fulfilling his dream of participating in a single handed around the world race. His intention was for the 1996 Vendee Globe, but it was the 1998 Around Alone that had the pleasure of his presence in his radically designed boat, Project Amazon. He did not finish the race, but he did survive it. Seb loved many things in life – dancing, travelling, photography, diving, good food and great stories, which he was full of from all the adventures on different continents during his life. He is survived by his wife Vicky, her son Juan Carlos, and his only child Sara Lee. There will be a private “Friends of Seb” gathering held in Squamish on January 7th. Those wishing to attend please contact Rose Fast (rosefast@shaw.ca) for details – RSVP required. Please come with stories and memories to share about Seb.

Tin%20Can%20project-amazon-sailing-02.jpg

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3 hours ago, stinky said:

+1 

I'd buy that book. 

Three copies! That sounds like an edition. Do it.

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You can put me down for a Presto as well - I love the concept and scale of those.  Would love to give one a whirl.

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6 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

You can put me down for a Presto as well - I love the concept and scale of those.  Would love to give one a whirl.

 

I really like the concept, but all of the auxiliary power options seem clunky. 

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21 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:
7 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

You can put me down for a Presto as well - I love the concept and scale of those.  Would love to give one a whirl.

 

I really like the concept, but all of the auxiliary power options seem clunky. 

I also really liked this design. Roger Martin knows how to design boats that sail really well. For power, I'd like to think about putting in a little diesel saildrive under the bridge deck.

FB- Doug

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" I asked the skipper where the head was about half way through the trip (I literally had the shit scared out of me) and he ducked below and opened a Lewmar hatch INSIDE the boat that led to a cloaca of sorts in the dagger/keel trunk and housed the lift and swing hydraulics as well as the undersized engine raw water intake AND exhaust! He told me to just sit on the edge of the 45 degree mounted hatch and have a dump":  What. the. Fuck.

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I am not sure if it is still technically a cat ketch, but apparently this one sails well upwind :

DSC_0301.JPG

mugardos--promenade-044.jpg

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3 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I also really liked this design. Roger Martin knows how to design boats that sail really well. For power, I'd like to think about putting in a little diesel saildrive under the bridge deck.

FB- Doug

I'm not sure that's possible. That's where the mizzen is stepped. There must be some good reason that Mr. Martin put his power unit in a bulky box next to the mizzen. You can make it out in this pic. 

The box may have to be that high because he uses a mechanism to lift the motor in the hull. I'm sure he was reluctant to specify a saildrive that was deeper than the hull without any sort of protection in a grounding, especially as folks are going to want to bring a boat like this into a beach.

 

2018-08-13_1250.png

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15 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

I'm not sure that's possible. That's where the mizzen is stepped. There must be some good reason that Mr. Martin put his power unit in a bulky box next to the mizzen. You can make it out in this pic. 

The box may have to be that high because he uses a mechanism to lift the motor in the hull. I'm sure he was reluctant to specify a saildrive that was deeper than the hull without any sort of protection in a grounding, especially as folks are going to want to bring a boat like this into a beach.

 

2018-08-13_1250.png

All that, plus the deadly offset companionway.

Agree with not having a prop sticking down unprotected. And beaching, although it would still be plenty shallow enough IMHO to bring up to almost any beach.

FB- Doug

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51 minutes ago, SemiSalt said:

I'm not sure that's possible. That's where the mizzen is stepped. There must be some good reason that Mr. Martin put his power unit in a bulky box next to the mizzen. You can make it out in this pic. 

The box may have to be that high because he uses a mechanism to lift the motor in the hull. I'm sure he was reluctant to specify a saildrive that was deeper than the hull without any sort of protection in a grounding, especially as folks are going to want to bring a boat like this into a beach.

 

2018-08-13_1250.png

An outboard in a well musn't be that bad on a boat this size.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

All that, plus the deadly offset companionway.

Agree with not having a prop sticking down unprotected. And beaching, although it would still be plenty shallow enough IMHO to bring up to almost any beach.

FB- Doug

There was one Presto 30 marketed by Derecktor and "SolarWind" that was built with an Nanni diesel inboard and a regular prop shaft:

http://www.boatersresources.com/boat-for-sale/2012-DerecktorPresto30-Used-382914

It had been on the market for quite a while before she sold.   I would be leery of having a prop on a strut and shaft on that  shallow of draft (13") boat.

Unfortunately, a combo of downturns of fortune and super storm Sandy shut down production of the boat for good.

- Stumbling

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On 8/10/2018 at 9:24 PM, DDW said:

I kind of like them.

I've always admired the lines of the Sandpiper 32. I've never sailed one, but now that I only race on OPBs, I might be interested.

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2 hours ago, SemiSalt said:

I'm not sure that's possible. That's where the mizzen is stepped. There must be some good reason that Mr. Martin put his power unit in a bulky box next to the mizzen. You can make it out in this pic. 

The box may have to be that high because he uses a mechanism to lift the motor in the hull. I'm sure he was reluctant to specify a saildrive that was deeper than the hull without any sort of protection in a grounding, especially as folks are going to want to bring a boat like this into a beach.

 

2018-08-13_1250.png

Edited to say: Found some additional photos - this looks like a really practical boat. 

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An outboard in a well would be fine on a mid-sized  boat. Smallest of course can put a 6 horse on the transom. Bigger boats could use a retractable prop like the Dispros.

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10 minutes ago, RKoch said:

An outboard in a well would be fine on a mid-sized  boat. Smallest of course can put a 6 horse on the transom. Bigger boats could use a retractable prop like the Dispros.

I've got to think that having the engine mounted more forward like that would work better than a transom hung O/B too. 

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

All that, plus the deadly offset companionway.

Agree with not having a prop sticking down unprotected. And beaching, although it would still be plenty shallow enough IMHO to bring up to almost any beach.

FB- Doug

Kidding aside, the offset companionway works out well - I was on the boat a few years ago at the Annapolis show and while the boat doesn't have standing headroom the companionway offset like that makes it possible to stand up while using the galley when the hatch is open.

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28 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
38 minutes ago, RKoch said:

An outboard in a well would be fine on a mid-sized  boat. Smallest of course can put a 6 horse on the transom. Bigger boats could use a retractable prop like the Dispros.

I've got to think that having the engine mounted more forward like that would work better than a transom hung O/B too. 

Yep, it would pitch out in any kind of chop.

One reason for my own opinion, I'm kind of done with trying to push sailboats around with outboards. It's always a PITA at best. Yeah yeah the guys who are all hard-core about pure speed don't want to drag even a folding or feathering prop. But I like reliability, and I like getting home in bad weather (our best sailing season is in thru the winter, and we have many fine sailing days followed by late afternoon sleet). And I don't like toting outboards in and out of my garage, or having them stolen.

OTOH, griping aside.... one of the best things about a design like this is that it would sail so well, including dead to windward, that you'd rarely be as dependent on an engine as you often are with the usual-suspect type racer-cruiser.

FB- Doug

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

I paid for a for a bit of that yacht to my dismay.

If it is Convergence, haven't we all payed a bit for her in our lives?

- Stumbling

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Want!

2 hours ago, Groucho Marx said:

Cox's Bay Skimmer, 5.5 x 2.25 metres. 

skimmer copy.jpg

 

 

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I'm a big fan of cat ketches, owned a Core Sound 17 for 6 or 7 years before selling it last year. They are super easy to sail, super fun reaching and running, especially with a mizzen staysail. They don't go upwind like meter boats, but they do fine for my purposes. My boat would sail through 105-115 degrees (GPS tracks) and rough water could make that worse. My light CB boat made a lot of leeway, so I don't know how much of the wide angles was just from the rig. I reshaped the foils in a refit in the last year I owned it and found a couple of degrees of angle as a result.  I did several Everglades Challenges on it and did well, including coming in 10th overall in the difficult 2016 race. I only sold it because it didn't fit my current situation very well which meant I didn't use it enough. I fully intend to buy another one when I have more space to store multiple boats. If I were commissioning a big cruising boat, it would definitely be a cat ketch. 

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On 8/11/2018 at 1:24 PM, Rasputin22 said:

    I had the dubious honor of doing a delivery on PROJECT AMAZON. What a deathtrap! Pretty much unmanagable in tight quarters with a crew of three and we needed a tow just to get out of Red Hook and through the cut to the South side of St T. The skipper managed to overrun the tow boat before casting off the towline and the 25' outboard couldn't accelerate fast enough to get back in front of the big Cat Ketch. A couple of days earlier the tow boat skipper had released his towline about the same time the Amazon Skipper released his end instead of casting off. Lost a 250 towline so the local towboat skiff refused to make that mistake again yelling, 'No Mon, you loose up de line!' When the line went taught, he did make a dive at the tow cleat with a knife but the powerboat swapped ends so fast and then dragged stern first looking like an old 'Jitterbug' bass plug. The line snapped from out end and nearly took out the other skipper and when we finally got the big runaway ketch slowed down and jibed back just the bow of the towboat was sticking straight up in the air with the poor skipper sitting like a cormorant on the bow. We made a pass to pick him up and when he saw us coming he started yelling, 'Go away Mon, you coming back to try and kill me again?'

    That was all in my first 15 minutes on the AMAZON! It didn't get better and I was never so glad to get off of a boat in my life when we reached Fajardo. Getting to a dock there was nearly as bad. The goosenecks looked like the old roller mills that were so notorious for grabbing kids and workers and sucking them into the works and ripping fingers and limbs apart. I asked the skipper where the head was about half way through the trip (I literally had the shit scared out of me) and he ducked below and opened a Lewmar hatch INSIDE the boat that led to a cloaca of sorts in the dagger/keel trunk and housed the lift and swing hydraulics as well as the undersized engine raw water intake AND exhaust! He told me to just sit on the edge of the 45 degree mounted hatch and have a dump. There was a lot of oil and hydraulic floating around and he said to be careful closing the hatch because it was prone to leaking! The reason we were having to get tows was because the poor little diesel (hydraulic drive too) had probably injested turds and refused to run. 

     Boat had amazing straightline speed but the systems were a nightmare and the skipper was a complete idiot! 

     My mate and I both got stiffed on our day rate for the delivery and I found out later that the towboat skipper got stiffed too for the near sinking of his boat! Karma didn't take long to catch up with the AMAZON grifter.

Another great story, Rasp, but if you're trapped on the bow like a cormorant, is that really still just a "near" sinking?

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I wasn't trapped, the local fisherman was and he looked just like a cormorant sitting on a rock. The look on his face when he saw us returning towards him and the way he started cussing and flapping his arms to wave us off made him look like he was about to fly away to safety. It was a local built plank on frame boat and the big outboard was holding the transom down underwater and the flotation of the wooden hull and what little air was trapped in the decked over bow barely kept it afloat and we called the yacht club on the VHF and they sent a boat out to tow him home so it was indeed a 'near sinking'. That fellow always collected any black marlin from the fishing tournaments and made the best smoked Marlin dip you ever tasted! 

    Can't believe I found this

image.png.25b9e36123a257e5ffcaa71c8c4d4127.png

Austin Gumbs was the local who we nearly killed with PROJECT AMAZON. He had the biggest toughest hands I ever was on a man in my life. If he could have gotten them around the neck of Capt Reidl that would have been the end. On second thought, Austin would have probably smoked him for a day or so before filleting him. Actually Gumbs was a gentle giant of a man but don't dare get his ire up...

Image result for male

Here are some stories of Gumbs FLOATIN HILTON houseboat with which he waged a long hilarious war with the VI DPNR and eventually won.

http://all-ah-wee.blogspot.com/2007/12/austin-gumbs.html

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"The reason we were having to get tows was because the poor little diesel (hydraulic drive too) had probably injested turds and refused to run. "

So, the engine took a dump?

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No, the skipper had made a habit of shitting in the compartment which was serving as the 'seachest'. Like I said, it was a cloaca!

  1. a common cavity at the end of the digestive tract for the release of both excretory and genital products in vertebrates (except most mammals) and certain invertebrates. Specifically, the cloaca is present in birds, reptiles, amphibians, most fish, and monotremes and extreme RTW racing sailboats!
    • archaic
      a sewer.
 

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13 minutes ago, kinardly said:

"The reason we were having to get tows was because the poor little diesel (hydraulic drive too) had probably injested turds and refused to run. "

So, the engine took a dump?

No, a dump took the engine!

- Stumbling

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Worse thing was that there was hydraulic fluid and oil floating around in that compartment and you can't imagine the smell. I thought I was going to add the aroma of barf to the mix when he opened up the hatch!

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3 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Worse thing was that there was hydraulic fluid and oil floating around in that compartment and you can't imagine the smell. I thought I was going to add the aroma of barf to the mix when he opened up the hatch!

I just had an unsavory thought, if there was a sea chest in that compartment, I hope that any saltwater pickup for the sink was not plumbed from there... (if there was a sink)

- Stumbling

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4 hours ago, MisterMoon said:

I'm a big fan of cat ketches, owned a Core Sound 17 for 6 or 7 years before selling it last year. They are super easy to sail, super fun reaching and running, especially with a mizzen staysail. They don't go upwind like meter boats, but they do fine for my purposes. My boat would sail through 105-115 degrees (GPS tracks) and rough water could make that worse. My light CB boat made a lot of leeway, so I don't know how much of the wide angles was just from the rig. I reshaped the foils in a refit in the last year I owned it and found a couple of degrees of angle as a result.  I did several Everglades Challenges on it and did well, including coming in 10th overall in the difficult 2016 race. I only sold it because it didn't fit my current situation very well which meant I didn't use it enough. I fully intend to buy another one when I have more space to store multiple boats. If I were commissioning a big cruising boat, it would definitely be a cat ketch. 

Those Core Sounds are very impressive. On the point of windward sailing, the Cox's Bay Skimmer points very high, same as any other conventional sloop type rig. The rotating wing masts make all the difference. Also the boat has  inverted T foils on rudder and daggerboard - so it lifts out on reaches. Here's a cleaning bottom/foils shot. And one of sailing mate Jacques de Reuck. The boat is very light; has been blown over twice on its mooring, even tied on to its heavy cradle in on shore gales. Have reduced the mast chords to compensate. Boat is dangerous to sail single handed, have also tipped it over once in increasing winds and waves. But much more stable and secure with two crew.

 

 

 

skimmerfoils - Copy.jpg

skimmer2masts2 - Copy.jpg

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What's the tri in the background?

Looks shallow. Has the boat ever hit bottom while foiling?

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The tri is my other boat, Groucho Marx. In the same gale that inverted and wrecked the Skimmer's rig and rudder, Groucho lifted/tore its mooring and ended on rocks and halfway up a tree with expected damage. Have repaired most of it and have built two new floats. Was going to chainsaw it up, stripped it - but then changed mind.

We get tides ranging from 2.6 to 3.7 metres on the Waitemata - so plenty of depth at and near full tide. If in shallows, ease mainsheet .... learned the hard way.

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5 hours ago, Groucho Marx said:

The tri is my other boat, Groucho Marx. In the same gale that inverted and wrecked the Skimmer's rig and rudder, Groucho lifted/tore its mooring and ended on rocks and halfway up a tree with expected damage. Have repaired most of it and have built two new floats. Was going to chainsaw it up, stripped it - but then changed mind.

We get tides ranging from 2.6 to 3.7 metres on the Waitemata - so plenty of depth at and near full tide. If in shallows, ease mainsheet .... learned the hard way.

I'm fascinated by foiling sailboats but figure I would foil my way up into shallow water, come to an abrupt stop (possibly breaking something), and then not have enough water to leave.

That very thing happened to a jet boat I once owned. My neighbor learned the hard way that it could plane into water too shallow to float the hull at rest. It took 6 people and some tide to get it off.

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20 hours ago, Groucho Marx said:

Those Core Sounds are very impressive. On the point of windward sailing, the Cox's Bay Skimmer points very high, same as any other conventional sloop type rig. The rotating wing masts make all the difference. Also the boat has  inverted T foils on rudder and daggerboard - so it lifts out on reaches. Here's a cleaning bottom/foils shot. And one of sailing mate Jacques de Reuck. The boat is very light; has been blown over twice on its mooring, even tied on to its heavy cradle in on shore gales. Have reduced the mast chords to compensate. Boat is dangerous to sail single handed, have also tipped it over once in increasing winds and waves. But much more stable and secure with two crew.

 

 

 

skimmerfoils - Copy.jpg

skimmer2masts2 - Copy.jpg

Thank you for the further info and pictures.   I had seen the black mast/red sails picture in another post a while back and I was very intrigued by the design.

I am glad to hear further about the performance and sailing characteristic details.

Thats a great little boat there.

- Stumbling

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